Minimum Wage Reform?

[ScreamingEagle]

That is sustainable wage.

This is a living wage> Living Wage Calculator - Introduction to the Living Wage Calculator

You libs cooked up the "living wage" stupidity.....as if all teenagers and part-time workers need to support a family.....

Why would a teenager need a job instead of an education, if his father has a living wage job? You don't make sense. Being part, being half, full time worker has nothing to do with a living wage. The LW is based on a houry rate for 40 hours work, in a particular area of America.

Believe it or not but lots of teenagers need a job so they can augment the funds their parents provide them to get an education....plus they want that first car, insurance, clothes, date money, etc......not to mention they get real life experience so they can later apply for a "real" job....

The "living wage" is a liberal determination that says a person must make enough money to support a family....most teenagers don't need to do that.....neither do countless others who just want to make some extra money....

When you force an employer to pay the kid who is sweeping his floors a higher wage he will get rid of him.....nobody wins...

...except the liberal idiots who think they are so damn SMART (not) about micromanaging jobs.....btw....where are all those JOBS Mr. Obama?....you SPENT SO MUCH...why the hell isn't that keynesian theory kicking in???

 

[skookerasbil]

Son.........it is the liberal way. Make as many people as miserable as they are!!! Indeed s0n.......you will note that they want to take away everybodys right to choose because they know what works best for society. Lucky for us, less than 20% of Americans think the way they do!!!!


You see s0n..............heres how it works in the real world. 70+% of all jobs are provided by small business. But guess what happens when the government ups the minimum wage? Thats right son..........people get laid off and then have no job, just so some fcukking loser can make a few cents more a week.

Your daddy is lying to you son. When everyone has a living wage, they can afford to survive by buying more products to run their house, so more production requires more workers, not less. Further son, your dad could afford to buy you braces for your teeth, and spend more time at home with you, because with a LW one worker can support one household, so millions more will have employment, and you dad won't have to pay for them sitting on unemployment & welfare roles. I hate to tell you kid, but you got a stupid dad, and hopefully the studies showing intelligence is passed on to the children, is wrong..........

 

[skookerasbil]

January 04, 2007
The Minimum Wage is a Bad IdeaBy George Will

WASHINGTON -- A federal minimum wage is an idea whose time came in 1938, when public confidence in markets was at a nadir and the federal government's confidence in itself was at an apogee. This, in spite of the fact that, with the 19 percent unemployment and the economy contracting by 6.2 percent in 1938, the New Deal's frenetic attempts had failed to end, and perhaps had prolonged, the Depression.

Today, raising the federal minimum wage is a bad idea whose time has come, for two reasons, the first of which is that some Democrats have a chronic and evidently incurable disease -- New Deal Nostalgia. Witness Nancy Pelosi's "100 hours'' agenda, a genuflection to FDR's 100 Days. Perhaps this nostalgia resonates with the 5 percent of Americans who remember the 1930s.

Second, the president has endorsed raising the hourly minimum from $5.15 to $7.25 by the spring of 2009. The Democratic Congress will favor that, and he may reason that vetoing this minor episode of moral grandstanding would not be worth the predictable uproar -- Washington uproar often is inversely proportional to the importance of occasion for it. Besides, there would be something disproportionate about the president vetoing this feel-good bit of legislative fluff after not vetoing the absurdly expensive 2002 farm bill, or the 2005 highway bill larded with 6,371 earmarks, or the anti-constitutional McCain-Feingold speech-rationing bill.

Democrats consider the minimum wage increase a signature issue. So, consider what it says about them:

Most of the working poor earn more than the minimum wage, and most of the 0.6 percent (479,000 in 2005) of America's wage workers earning the minimum wage are not poor. Only one in five workers earning the federal minimum live in families with household earnings below the poverty line. Sixty percent work part-time and their average household income is well over $40,000. (The average and median household incomes are $63,344 and $46,326 respectively.)

Forty percent of American workers are salaried. Of the 75.6 million paid by the hour, 1.9 million earn the federal minimum or less, and of these, more than half are under 25 and more than a quarter are between 16 and 19. Many are students or other part-time workers. Sixty percent of those earning the federal minimum or less work in restaurants and bars and are earning tips -- often untaxed, perhaps -- in addition to their wages. Two-thirds of those earning the federal minimum today will, a year from now, have been promoted and be earning 10 percent more. Raising the minimum wage predictably makes work more attractive relative to school for some teenagers, and raises the dropout rate. Two scholars report that in states that allow persons to leave school before 18, a 10 percent increase in the state minimum wage caused teenage school enrollment to drop 2 percent.

The federal minimum wage has not been raised since 1997, so 29 states with 70 percent of the nation's work force have set minimum wages of between $6.15 and $7.93 an hour. Because aging liberals, clinging to the moral clarities of their youth, also have Sixties Nostalgia, they are suspicious of states' rights. But regarding minimum wages, many have become Brandeisians, invoking Justice Louis Brandeis' thought about states being laboratories of democracy.

But wait. Ronald Blackwell, the AFL-CIO's chief economist, tells The New York Times that state minimum wage differences entice companies to shift jobs to lower-wage states. So: states' rights are bad, after all, at least concerning -- let's use liberalism's highest encomium -- diversity of economic policies.

The problem is that demand for almost everything is elastic: When the price of something goes up, demand for it goes down. Obviously were the minimum wage to jump to, say, $15 an hour, that would cause significant unemployment among persons just reaching for the bottom rung of the ladder of upward mobility. But suppose those scholars are correct who say that when the minimum wage is low and is increased slowly -- proposed legislation would take it to $7.25 in three steps -- the negative impact on employment is negligible. Still, because there are large differences among states' costs of living, and the nature of their economies, Sen. Jim DeMint, R-S.C., sensibly suggests that each state should be allowed to set a lower minimum.

But the minimum wage should be the same everywhere: $0. Labor is a commodity; governments make messes when they decree commodities' prices. Washington, which has its hands full delivering the mail and defending the shores, should let the market do well what Washington does poorly. But that is a good idea whose time will never come again.

RealClearPolitics - Articles - The Minimum Wage is a Bad Idea






Oooooooooooooooops!!!!!!!!

 

[Missourian]

We raised minimum wage...and the price of everything went up...

If we raise it to $20 per hour, prices will go up to match and those folks will be in the same position they are today.

 

[skookerasbil]

 

[shintao]

You libs cooked up the "living wage" stupidity.....as if all teenagers and part-time workers need to support a family.....

Why would a teenager need a job instead of an education, if his father has a living wage job? You don't make sense. Being part, being half, full time worker has nothing to do with a living wage. The LW is based on a houry rate for 40 hours work, in a particular area of America.

Believe it or not but lots of teenagers need a job so they can augment the funds their parents provide them to get an education....plus they want that first car, insurance, clothes, date money, etc......not to mention they get real life experience so they can later apply for a "real" job....

The "living wage" is a liberal determination that says a person must make enough money to support a family....most teenagers don't need to do that.....neither do countless others who just want to make some extra money....

When you force an employer to pay the kid who is sweeping his floors a higher wage he will get rid of him.....nobody wins...

...except the liberal idiots who think they are so damn SMART (not) about micromanaging jobs.....btw....where are all those JOBS Mr. Obama?....you SPENT SO MUCH...why the hell isn't that keynesian theory kicking in???

Let his daddy support & raise him, and mom stay home & feed him, and stick nickles in a jor for that car & education like people used to do in America before they knew what a con was. Let the teen goal be his education, which in the socialist world will be free, because one TV channel can teach 300 million people their times table. 500 stations can teach Americans thousands of classes. Then sonny goes down to the state education board located next to DMV, and he takes a test for his diploma in whatever subject he wanted to be in. When he leaves his dads support, he will have a job and a living wage to start his life with.

Let the employer make his own way, that is why the call him boss.

 

[shintao]

We raised minimum wage...and the price of everything went up...

If we raise it to $20 per hour, prices will go up to match and those folks will be in the same position they are today.

In the socialist world the living wage and product pricing is regulated so wherever you go in the country the same wages and prices are set.


You notice when the health industry attempted to jack up the health care premiums, the gov. stepped in and made them justify the increase. If they can not do that, the cost will remain the same.

 

[skookerasbil]

We raised minimum wage...and the price of everything went up...

If we raise it to $20 per hour, prices will go up to match and those folks will be in the same position they are today.

In the socialist world the living wage and product pricing is regulated so wherever you go in the country the same wages and prices are set.


You notice when the health industry attempted to jack up the health care premiums, the gov. stepped in and made them justify the increase. If they can not do that, the cost will remain the same.

Who doesnt love when the 20%er fringe guy comes on here and publically humiliates himself??

 

[skookerasbil]

yuk..........yuk...........yuk............

Is red a beautiful thing?????



Indeed...................indeed it 'tis............

 

[skookerasbil]

cats are gay...........by the way Shintao, might you be one of those feminist bulldogs?? Would explain everything, actually........

 

[rdean]

They make 51 cents an hour in China. The GOP sees that as a "standard" we could meet or exceed.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Why would a teenager need a job instead of an education, if his father has a living wage job? You don't make sense. Being part, being half, full time worker has nothing to do with a living wage. The LW is based on a houry rate for 40 hours work, in a particular area of America.

Believe it or not but lots of teenagers need a job so they can augment the funds their parents provide them to get an education....plus they want that first car, insurance, clothes, date money, etc......not to mention they get real life experience so they can later apply for a "real" job....

The "living wage" is a liberal determination that says a person must make enough money to support a family....most teenagers don't need to do that.....neither do countless others who just want to make some extra money....

When you force an employer to pay the kid who is sweeping his floors a higher wage he will get rid of him.....nobody wins...

...except the liberal idiots who think they are so damn SMART (not) about micromanaging jobs.....btw....where are all those JOBS Mr. Obama?....you SPENT SO MUCH...why the hell isn't that keynesian theory kicking in???

Let his daddy support & raise him, and mom stay home & feed him, and stick nickles in a jor for that car & education like people used to do in America before they knew what a con was. Let the teen goal be his education, which in the socialist world will be free, because one TV channel can teach 300 million people their times table. 500 stations can teach Americans thousands of classes. Then sonny goes down to the state education board located next to DMV, and he takes a test for his diploma in whatever subject he wanted to be in. When he leaves his dads support, he will have a job and a living wage to start his life with.

Let the employer make his own way, that is why the call him boss.

You are a cradle-to-grave socialist commie....

You wouldn't last one minute in the old America....when "cons" were everywhere....

Where did you get your education anyhow?....on a TV program?....and your diploma came after passing a DMV test...?

 

[shintao]

We raised minimum wage...and the price of everything went up...

If we raise it to $20 per hour, prices will go up to match and those folks will be in the same position they are today.

In the socialist world the living wage and product pricing is regulated so wherever you go in the country the same wages and prices are set.


You notice when the health industry attempted to jack up the health care premiums, the gov. stepped in and made them justify the increase. If they can not do that, the cost will remain the same.

Who doesnt love when the 20%er fringe guy comes on here and publically humiliates himself??

You seem to be the Loser in this contest, and you are down to cartoons and crayolas, because you are defeated and cannot make a reasonable argument. You are even fool enough to argue against your own best interests, and are saying you prefer supporting 10% of the nation on unemployment and more on welfare. tsk! You just are none too bright boy...............LMAO!

 

[shintao]

cats are gay...........by the way Shintao, might you be one of those feminist bulldogs?? Would explain everything, actually........

Stop trolling for cock............

 

[shintao]

Believe it or not but lots of teenagers need a job so they can augment the funds their parents provide them to get an education....plus they want that first car, insurance, clothes, date money, etc......not to mention they get real life experience so they can later apply for a "real" job....

The "living wage" is a liberal determination that says a person must make enough money to support a family....most teenagers don't need to do that.....neither do countless others who just want to make some extra money....

When you force an employer to pay the kid who is sweeping his floors a higher wage he will get rid of him.....nobody wins...

...except the liberal idiots who think they are so damn SMART (not) about micromanaging jobs.....btw....where are all those JOBS Mr. Obama?....you SPENT SO MUCH...why the hell isn't that keynesian theory kicking in???

Let his daddy support & raise him, and mom stay home & feed him, and stick nickles in a jor for that car & education like people used to do in America before they knew what a con was. Let the teen goal be his education, which in the socialist world will be free, because one TV channel can teach 300 million people their times table. 500 stations can teach Americans thousands of classes. Then sonny goes down to the state education board located next to DMV, and he takes a test for his diploma in whatever subject he wanted to be in. When he leaves his dads support, he will have a job and a living wage to start his life with.

Let the employer make his own way, that is why the call him boss.

You are a cradle-to-grave socialist commie....

You wouldn't last one minute in the old America....when "cons" were everywhere....

Where did you get your education anyhow?....on a TV program?....and your diploma came after passing a DMV test...?

No, actually, I am a socialist & humanitarian. You & the cons are commie loven fagots who supported borrowing trillions from your PRC brothers. I have outlasted you in America, with socialists everywhere. I am a UOP graduate in psychology, and you are dumb ass on a park bench. LMAO!!!

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Let his daddy support & raise him, and mom stay home & feed him, and stick nickles in a jor for that car & education like people used to do in America before they knew what a con was. Let the teen goal be his education, which in the socialist world will be free, because one TV channel can teach 300 million people their times table. 500 stations can teach Americans thousands of classes. Then sonny goes down to the state education board located next to DMV, and he takes a test for his diploma in whatever subject he wanted to be in. When he leaves his dads support, he will have a job and a living wage to start his life with.

Let the employer make his own way, that is why the call him boss.

You are a cradle-to-grave socialist commie....

You wouldn't last one minute in the old America....when "cons" were everywhere....

Where did you get your education anyhow?....on a TV program?....and your diploma came after passing a DMV test...?

No, actually, I am a socialist & humanitarian. You & the cons are commie loven fagots who supported borrowing trillions from your PRC brothers. I have outlasted you in America, with socialists everywhere. I am a UOP graduate in psychology, and you are dumb ass on a park bench. LMAO!!!

wow....you're really impressing me...not....for one thing i don't believe a socialist can be a true humanitarian....take Soros for example.....

...isn't UOP (University of Phoenix) one of those online schools.....? maybe you are a "TV grad" after all.....

As a con I never supported dealing much with Red China....notice how the liberal press never refers to it as "Red" anymore....? ....notice who gave away top nuclear secrets to Red China...can we say Clinton...? ....notice who said on a trip to Red China "Every aspect of our lives must be subjected to an inventory"....can we say Pelosi....? Methinks you dimmies are quite taken with the Reds....i wonder what their "living wage" is over there....

 

[thereisnospoon]

$9.50 is a "living wage"? Where?

If you government really cared about mandating a "living wage" then it would be closer to $20 an hour.

Government has NO business mandating wages. the market determines wages.
Minimum wage is NOT a living wage. Living wage and minimum wage are mutually exclusive.
The min wage actually contributes to unemployment among low or unskilled labor.
Those that think of "living" wage in terms of what is required to provide for living expenses( necessities only) are spot on. Those that ignore the reality that luxuries such as pay tv, memberships to gyms, expensive haircuts, new cars, going out to eat every week, etc, are not necessities are being unrealistic.
I worked in a career that took me into people's homes. I was taken aback by the percentage of people who live far beyond their means.
One glaring example was this couple. He was a corrections officer in a county jail. That is a public sector job. The wife worked as a receptionist for a chiropractic office.
I was interested because here these people were living in a larger and more costly home than mine in the same subdivision. Two of the rooms had NO furniture in them. I instinctively thought "house poor".
I guesstimated her wage at about $10 per hour. I looked up HIS salary on the internet. For new jailers in that county the wage was $29k per year.
So here I was looking at a couple with two kids making half the money that my wife and I made and they had a larger home and newer vehicles.
Typical case of people living far beyond their means.
These are the same people the Left weeps for when they run out of money. It's always someone else's fault. It's the predatory lending or it's the bank's fault for granting credit. Or it's an "expectation" of lifestyle rather than working one's way up to a lifestyle.
The point here is opposition to the idea that wages are too low for the least skilled. They aren't. The problem is far too many people expecting things. The feeling of entitlement to a certain lifestyle.
Just about anyone can have whatever they want if they have been granted credit to buy it.
What they don't think about is the amount of income vs their expectations.
I have about $3,000 in credit card debt which I could liquidate right now. But I do not wish to use up a good amount liquid cash. I double up or even triple up payments which all but eliminates the interest. CC Interest only affects accounts where the borrower pays the minimum each month.
Now, I expect the argument that "what about the people who can't pay more than the minimum"...Too bad. Should not have gotten themselves in that position in the first place.
So, what is a living wage anyway? Is it one that pays for our necessities? Or a wage that pays for what we want?

 

[shintao]

You are a cradle-to-grave socialist commie....

You wouldn't last one minute in the old America....when "cons" were everywhere....

Where did you get your education anyhow?....on a TV program?....and your diploma came after passing a DMV test...?

No, actually, I am a socialist & humanitarian. You & the cons are commie loven fagots who supported borrowing trillions from your PRC brothers. I have outlasted you in America, with socialists everywhere. I am a UOP graduate in psychology, and you are dumb ass on a park bench. LMAO!!!

wow....you're really impressing me...not....for one thing i don't believe a socialist can be a true humanitarian....take Soros for example.....

...isn't UOP (University of Phoenix) one of those online schools.....? maybe you are a "TV grad" after all.....

As a con I never supported dealing much with Red China....notice how the liberal press never refers to it as "Red" anymore....? ....notice who gave away top nuclear secrets to Red China...can we say Clinton...? ....notice who said on a trip to Red China "Every aspect of our lives must be subjected to an inventory"....can we say Pelosi....? Methinks you dimmies are quite taken with the Reds....i wonder what their "living wage" is over there....

And you are still on the park bench.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

$9.50 is a "living wage"? Where?

If you government really cared about mandating a "living wage" then it would be closer to $20 an hour.

Government has NO business mandating wages. the market determines wages.
Minimum wage is NOT a living wage. Living wage and minimum wage are mutually exclusive.
The min wage actually contributes to unemployment among low or unskilled labor.
Those that think of "living" wage in terms of what is required to provide for living expenses( necessities only) are spot on. Those that ignore the reality that luxuries such as pay tv, memberships to gyms, expensive haircuts, new cars, going out to eat every week, etc, are not necessities are being unrealistic.
I worked in a career that took me into people's homes. I was taken aback by the percentage of people who live far beyond their means.
One glaring example was this couple. He was a corrections officer in a county jail. That is a public sector job. The wife worked as a receptionist for a chiropractic office.
I was interested because here these people were living in a larger and more costly home than mine in the same subdivision. Two of the rooms had NO furniture in them. I instinctively thought "house poor".
I guesstimated her wage at about $10 per hour. I looked up HIS salary on the internet. For new jailers in that county the wage was $29k per year.
So here I was looking at a couple with two kids making half the money that my wife and I made and they had a larger home and newer vehicles.
Typical case of people living far beyond their means.
These are the same people the Left weeps for when they run out of money. It's always someone else's fault. It's the predatory lending or it's the bank's fault for granting credit. Or it's an "expectation" of lifestyle rather than working one's way up to a lifestyle.
The point here is opposition to the idea that wages are too low for the least skilled. They aren't. The problem is far too many people expecting things. The feeling of entitlement to a certain lifestyle.
Just about anyone can have whatever they want if they have been granted credit to buy it.
What they don't think about is the amount of income vs their expectations.
I have about $3,000 in credit card debt which I could liquidate right now. But I do not wish to use up a good amount liquid cash. I double up or even triple up payments which all but eliminates the interest. CC Interest only affects accounts where the borrower pays the minimum each month.
Now, I expect the argument that "what about the people who can't pay more than the minimum"...Too bad. Should not have gotten themselves in that position in the first place.
So, what is a living wage anyway? Is it one that pays for our necessities? Or a wage that pays for what we want?

you said it well.....

living wage = entitlement

 

[The T]

$9.50 is a "living wage"? Where?

If you government really cared about mandating a "living wage" then it would be closer to $20 an hour.

Government has NO business mandating wages. the market determines wages.
Minimum wage is NOT a living wage. Living wage and minimum wage are mutually exclusive.
The min wage actually contributes to unemployment among low or unskilled labor.
Those that think of "living" wage in terms of what is required to provide for living expenses( necessities only) are spot on. Those that ignore the reality that luxuries such as pay tv, memberships to gyms, expensive haircuts, new cars, going out to eat every week, etc, are not necessities are being unrealistic.
I worked in a career that took me into people's homes. I was taken aback by the percentage of people who live far beyond their means.
One glaring example was this couple. He was a corrections officer in a county jail. That is a public sector job. The wife worked as a receptionist for a chiropractic office.
I was interested because here these people were living in a larger and more costly home than mine in the same subdivision. Two of the rooms had NO furniture in them. I instinctively thought "house poor".
I guesstimated her wage at about $10 per hour. I looked up HIS salary on the internet. For new jailers in that county the wage was $29k per year.
So here I was looking at a couple with two kids making half the money that my wife and I made and they had a larger home and newer vehicles.
Typical case of people living far beyond their means.
These are the same people the Left weeps for when they run out of money. It's always someone else's fault. It's the predatory lending or it's the bank's fault for granting credit. Or it's an "expectation" of lifestyle rather than working one's way up to a lifestyle.
The point here is opposition to the idea that wages are too low for the least skilled. They aren't. The problem is far too many people expecting things. The feeling of entitlement to a certain lifestyle.
Just about anyone can have whatever they want if they have been granted credit to buy it.
What they don't think about is the amount of income vs their expectations.
I have about $3,000 in credit card debt which I could liquidate right now. But I do not wish to use up a good amount liquid cash. I double up or even triple up payments which all but eliminates the interest. CC Interest only affects accounts where the borrower pays the minimum each month.
Now, I expect the argument that "what about the people who can't pay more than the minimum"...Too bad. Should not have gotten themselves in that position in the first place.
So, what is a living wage anyway? Is it one that pays for our necessities? Or a wage that pays for what we want?

you said it well.....

living wage = entitlement

For a bunch of linguine-spined losers that fail at LIFE. And they whine to gubmint to make it so, impose it on private companies. Government has no business at this.

It's about time for an armed March on the District Of Criminals.