MH-17 Boeing-777 was downed by Ukraine – Dutch investigators

[John McWrice]

Ukraine is the least of our worries.

Especially if a Dutch pilot is not smart enough to plan a flight plan around and not through a war zone.

You will be surprised but a flight route was CHANGED by the ground services THROUGH a war zone from the safe route. Moreover NOBODY told pilots about war zone.

 

[Xsard]

On January 22, 2017 Committee for the Intelligence and Security Services (CIVD) chief Harm Brouwer furnished the Dutch parliament with data concerning Flight MH-17 crash. According to it only Ukrainian Buk-M-1 SAM systems could shoot down the aircraft.

This information was posted on Twitter by MP Pieter Omtzight: “CIVD chief confirms: according to the investigation, only Ukraine had operable "Buk" SAM systems in the region on July 17".

However, this sensational tweet was ignored by news media. It was found by Ukrainian politologist Vladimir Kornilov a short while ago… It only goes to show that Western governments have no interest in delivering of complete and biased information to their citizens.

Bullshit...
--------------------------
Pieter Omtzigt:
Some Russian media today seem to think that Ukraine had BUK systems in rebel held areas on July 17th 2014. That must be impossible.

-----> Pieter Omtzigt on Twitter

 

[John McWrice]

BUK missile system is a new one for me and I was intimate with the Tartar anti-air missile system over 40 years ago. Does BUK have passive, semi-passive or active guidance?

However it doesn't really matter. The rebels have this system as well as the Ukrainians. So, saying it couldn't be the rebels would require a lot of effort to prove, seeing as both sides had the system.

The rebels have Buks? Is that a proven fact?

I bet that sucker takes off fast and travels 2000 miles per hour in four seconds and has a hard kick when launching to call it BUK.

I bet.


The Buk missile system (Russian: "Бук"; “beech” (tree)

Thanks for I did not know BUK meant Beech Tree. Beech trees are tall with a wide trunk and strong wood.

All Soviet/Russian SAMs and artillery systems have name of trees or flowers exept SAM "Thor" and "Tunguska".

 

[xband]

Ukraine is the least of our worries.

Especially if a Dutch pilot is not smart enough to plan a flight plan around and not through a war zone.

You will be surprised but a flight route was CHANGED by the ground services THROUGH a war zone from the safe route. Moreover NOBODY told pilots about war zone.

Qualification to be a pilot. Move that pile of shit over there to over here and pile it up again, you are a pilot.

 

[frigidweirdo]

On January 22, 2017 Committee for the Intelligence and Security Services (CIVD) chief Harm Brouwer furnished the Dutch parliament with data concerning Flight MH-17 crash. According to it only Ukrainian Buk-M-1 SAM systems could shoot down the aircraft.

This information was posted on Twitter by MP Pieter Omtzight: “CIVD chief confirms: according to the investigation, only Ukraine had operable "Buk" SAM systems in the region on July 17".

However, this sensational tweet was ignored by news media. It was found by Ukrainian politologist Vladimir Kornilov a short while ago… It only goes to show that Western governments have no interest in delivering of complete and biased information to their citizens.

The briefing and tweet happened on January 22, 2016, not 2017. The investigation lasted eight more months during which time the assumption that only Ukraine had access to the BUK missile system was disputed and convinced the investigators that the separatist had access to BUK anti-aircraft missile systems. The report by the JIT was issued on Sept. 28, 2016, again, eight months after the tweet in the OP.

BUK missile system is a new one for me and I was intimate with the Tartar anti-air missile system over 40 years ago. Does BUK have passive, semi-passive or active guidance?

However it doesn't really matter. The rebels have this system as well as the Ukrainians. So, saying it couldn't be the rebels would require a lot of effort to prove, seeing as both sides had the system.

The rebels have Buks? Is that a proven fact?

Yes. I showed pictures of the rebels with BUKs.

Ukraine Rebel Leader Admits Fighters Did Have BUK Missile | The Huffington Post

"
Ukraine Rebel Leader Admits Fighters Did Have BUK Missile"

Some Info About “Buks” : Kiev Has 60 Units; Rebels May Have 1; Not Clear If Latter In Working Order

"Late last month, the Donetsk rebels took over a small military base that housed at least one "Buk" system. Immediately, Kiev announced that the captured equipment was not in working order. And that was the end of it."

"Around five hours before the crash of MH17 on Thursday, locals near the town of Grabovo, where wreckage of the flight is now scattered, spotted a Buk launcher."

"Both the Ukrainian and Russian military possess such systems. Kiev operates 60 Buk 9K37s, according to the International Institute for Strategic Studies. Moscow operates 350, including a large number of more modern Buk 9K317s."
"
The best evidence that has emerged so far is that the Buk launcher fell into rebel hands on June 29.

On that day, rebel forces took control of a base in the suburbs of Donetsk at which surface-to-air missile unit A1402 of the Ukrainian army was located"

Ukraine Says Rebels Shot Down Malaysian Airlines Plane

"General Philip Breedlove, the commander of the U.S. European Command, said that Moscow has been supplying Ukrainian separatists with anti-aircraft weaponry, and has held training sessions along the eastern Ukrainian border, teaching rebels how to operate the systems."

"on June 29, Russia's official news agency, ITAR-TASS, reported that pro-Russian separatists took a BUK system under their control. The report does not specify whether or not this was theft from the Russian or Ukrainian militaries, only that the rebels had seized control of the weapons system."

"But at the same time as the Malaysian Airlines jetliner went down, Radio Free Europe reported, Ukrainian rebel leader Igor Strelkov announced on Russian social networking site VKontakte that a Ukrainian transport plane had been shot down: "In the vicinity of Torez, we just downed a plane, an AN-26. ... We have issued warnings not to fly in our airspace. We have video confirming. The bird fell on a waste heap. Residential areas were not hit. Civilians were not injured.""

 

[Tehon]

Of course it was Ukraine.. eye roll.

I am willing to wager that BUK is a heat seeker, the most primitive guided missile. Put rocket propelled flares on the plane with a thermal image computer for anti-missile and programmed to launch when a hot flash is sensed on the ground meaning launch. The heat seeker will chase after the hottest thing in its narrow range of vision.

Operation[edit]
The Buk is a mobile, radar-guided surface-to-air missile (SAM) missile system with all four main components — acquisition and targeting radars, a command element, missile launchers, and a logistics element — mounted on tracked vehicles. This allows the system to move with other military forces and relocate to make it a more difficult target to find than a fixed SAM system.

• The acquisition radar component (several variants have differing capabilities) allows the system to identify, track and target selected targets.
• The command component is intended to discern "friendly" military aircraft from foes (IFF), prioritize multiple targets, and pass radar targeting information to the missile launchers.
• The missile launcher component can carry a variety of missiles (as listed below) and may be able to engage more than one target simultaneously.
• The logistics component carries additional (reload) missiles and provides other supplies and parts for the system and the operators.

In general, the system identifies potential targets (radar), selects a particular target (command), fires a missile (launcher) at the target, and resupplies the system (logistics). The missiles require a radar lock to initially steer the missile to the target until the missile's on-board radar system takes over to provide final course corrections. A proximity fuse aboard the missile determines when it will detonate, creating an expanding fragmentation pattern of missile components and warhead to intercept and destroy the target. A proximity fuse improves the "probability of kill" given the missile and target closure rates, which can be more than 3,000 km/h (1,900 mph) (or more than 900 m/s (3,000 ft/s)).

Alternatively, the command component may be able to remotely detonate the missile, or the on-board contact fuse will cause the warhead to detonate. The most capable radar, assuming it has a line of sight (no terrain between the radar and the target), can track targets (depending on size) as low as 30 m (98 ft) and as far as 140 km (87 mi). The most capable missile can hit targets as far as 50 km (31 mi) and more than 24,000 m (79,000 ft) in altitude. Since the introduction of the Buk in the 1970s, the capabilities of its system components have evolved, which has led to different nomenclature and nicknames for the components' variants. The Buk has also been adapted for use on naval vessels.

It must be semi-passive if it needs a ground radar to guide it. The best way to defeat semi-passive is shine the same frequency back on the tracking radar of equal or more power which makes the ground tracking radar go nuts. I had an offer to go to Iran and man their Missile Minder system (Basic Point Defense) before the fall of the Shah. Thank God I turned down that offer.

Range Gate Stealing is another option.

You should join the cause. You at least appear to have more credentials than that POS operating Bellingcat.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Ukraine is the least of our worries.

Especially if a Dutch pilot is not smart enough to plan a flight plan around and not through a war zone.

Do you know how many planes fly over war zones? I flew over Mogadishu and Kabul within the space of a month. So many planes were flying over the Ukraine on a daily basis. It wasn't for the pilot to make that judgement, the Ukrainians said it was safe, and everyone thought it was safe. What made it not safe? Probably some people with a missile system they didn't know how to use properly, that they'd recently found and were trying out. Seeing as the Ukrainians knew how to make it work, and the rebels might have had people who didn't just playing around with their new found toy....

 

[Tehon]

Yes. I showed pictures of the rebels with BUKs.

Well in all honesty you didn't. You showed pictures of a Buk system in transport, nothing more.

 

[John McWrice]

On January 22, 2017 Committee for the Intelligence and Security Services (CIVD) chief Harm Brouwer furnished the Dutch parliament with data concerning Flight MH-17 crash. According to it only Ukrainian Buk-M-1 SAM systems could shoot down the aircraft.

This information was posted on Twitter by MP Pieter Omtzight: “CIVD chief confirms: according to the investigation, only Ukraine had operable "Buk" SAM systems in the region on July 17".

However, this sensational tweet was ignored by news media. It was found by Ukrainian politologist Vladimir Kornilov a short while ago… It only goes to show that Western governments have no interest in delivering of complete and biased information to their citizens.

Bullshit...
--------------------------
Pieter Omtzigt:
Some Russian media today seem to think that Ukraine had BUK systems in rebel held areas on July 17th 2014. That must be impossible.

-----> Pieter Omtzigt on Twitter

But BUK could shoot from area that wasn't held by rebels.

 

[xband]

Of course it was Ukraine.. eye roll.

I am willing to wager that BUK is a heat seeker, the most primitive guided missile. Put rocket propelled flares on the plane with a thermal image computer for anti-missile and programmed to launch when a hot flash is sensed on the ground meaning launch. The heat seeker will chase after the hottest thing in its narrow range of vision.

Operation[edit]
The Buk is a mobile, radar-guided surface-to-air missile (SAM) missile system with all four main components — acquisition and targeting radars, a command element, missile launchers, and a logistics element — mounted on tracked vehicles. This allows the system to move with other military forces and relocate to make it a more difficult target to find than a fixed SAM system.

• The acquisition radar component (several variants have differing capabilities) allows the system to identify, track and target selected targets.
• The command component is intended to discern "friendly" military aircraft from foes (IFF), prioritize multiple targets, and pass radar targeting information to the missile launchers.
• The missile launcher component can carry a variety of missiles (as listed below) and may be able to engage more than one target simultaneously.
• The logistics component carries additional (reload) missiles and provides other supplies and parts for the system and the operators.

In general, the system identifies potential targets (radar), selects a particular target (command), fires a missile (launcher) at the target, and resupplies the system (logistics). The missiles require a radar lock to initially steer the missile to the target until the missile's on-board radar system takes over to provide final course corrections. A proximity fuse aboard the missile determines when it will detonate, creating an expanding fragmentation pattern of missile components and warhead to intercept and destroy the target. A proximity fuse improves the "probability of kill" given the missile and target closure rates, which can be more than 3,000 km/h (1,900 mph) (or more than 900 m/s (3,000 ft/s)).

Alternatively, the command component may be able to remotely detonate the missile, or the on-board contact fuse will cause the warhead to detonate. The most capable radar, assuming it has a line of sight (no terrain between the radar and the target), can track targets (depending on size) as low as 30 m (98 ft) and as far as 140 km (87 mi). The most capable missile can hit targets as far as 50 km (31 mi) and more than 24,000 m (79,000 ft) in altitude. Since the introduction of the Buk in the 1970s, the capabilities of its system components have evolved, which has led to different nomenclature and nicknames for the components' variants. The Buk has also been adapted for use on naval vessels.

It must be semi-passive if it needs a ground radar to guide it. The best way to defeat semi-passive is shine the same frequency back on the tracking radar of equal or more power which makes the ground tracking radar go nuts. I had an offer to go to Iran and man their Missile Minder system (Basic Point Defense) before the fall of the Shah. Thank God I turned down that offer.

Range Gate Stealing is another option.

You should join the cause. You at least appear to have more credentials than that POS operating Bellingcat.

I would rather be a scab on the belly of a whore than a below deck sailor on a man-o-war.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Yes. I showed pictures of the rebels with BUKs.

Well in all honesty you didn't. You showed pictures of a Buk system in transport, nothing more.

Whatever, evidence is part of a package, I've presented more than one piece of evidence, and the pictures I posted came with a source which made a claim..... But hey, you just chose to write a small one liner without looking at everything else I wrote.

 

[frigidweirdo]

On January 22, 2017 Committee for the Intelligence and Security Services (CIVD) chief Harm Brouwer furnished the Dutch parliament with data concerning Flight MH-17 crash. According to it only Ukrainian Buk-M-1 SAM systems could shoot down the aircraft.

This information was posted on Twitter by MP Pieter Omtzight: “CIVD chief confirms: according to the investigation, only Ukraine had operable "Buk" SAM systems in the region on July 17".

However, this sensational tweet was ignored by news media. It was found by Ukrainian politologist Vladimir Kornilov a short while ago… It only goes to show that Western governments have no interest in delivering of complete and biased information to their citizens.

Bullshit...
--------------------------
Pieter Omtzigt:
Some Russian media today seem to think that Ukraine had BUK systems in rebel held areas on July 17th 2014. That must be impossible.

-----> Pieter Omtzigt on Twitter

But BUK could shoot from area that wasn't held by rebels.

Yes, it could.

However there's a few pieces of evidence which link it to the rebels. There's a video of the rebels going through the stuff of the plane, seeing it's civilians and getting all rather stressed about it, guiltily so. There's also a report by the rebels about having shot down a plane they believed to be a military jet, but it turns out it wasn't.

 

[Camp]

Yes. I showed pictures of the rebels with BUKs.

Well in all honesty you didn't. You showed pictures of a Buk system in transport, nothing more.

Locations of the BUK being transported have been verified by JIT from analysis of landmarks and even signs.

 

[Xsard]

************

-----> Russian Buk-332 Shot Down MH17

 

[Camp]

On January 22, 2017 Committee for the Intelligence and Security Services (CIVD) chief Harm Brouwer furnished the Dutch parliament with data concerning Flight MH-17 crash. According to it only Ukrainian Buk-M-1 SAM systems could shoot down the aircraft.

This information was posted on Twitter by MP Pieter Omtzight: “CIVD chief confirms: according to the investigation, only Ukraine had operable "Buk" SAM systems in the region on July 17".

However, this sensational tweet was ignored by news media. It was found by Ukrainian politologist Vladimir Kornilov a short while ago… It only goes to show that Western governments have no interest in delivering of complete and biased information to their citizens.

Bullshit...
--------------------------
Pieter Omtzigt:
Some Russian media today seem to think that Ukraine had BUK systems in rebel held areas on July 17th 2014. That must be impossible.

-----> Pieter Omtzigt on Twitter

But BUK could shoot from area that wasn't held by rebels.

Yes, it could.

However there's a few pieces of evidence which link it to the rebels. There's a video of the rebels going through the stuff of the plane, seeing it's civilians and getting all rather stressed about it, guiltily so. There's also a report by the rebels about having shot down a plane they believed to be a military jet, but it turns out it wasn't.

More than just reports. JIT included voice communication intercepted recordings of separatist and Russian military officials and other separatist leaders. Those recordings are included in the JIT report.

 

[Theowl32]

If it was shot down, it would have been India's airforce. All of their sensitive nuclear facilities are in the East. A few short weeks prior to MH17 incident, India's airforce scrambled to intercept something they had seen on radar. Turned out to weather balloons or something.

If there was an airliner not responding and approaching their air space towards that region, make no mistake. India will shoot it down.

 

[Camp]

If it was shot down, it would have been India's airforce. All of their sensitive nuclear facilities are in the East. A few short weeks prior to MH17 incident, India's airforce scrambled to intercept something they had seen on radar. Turned out to weather balloons or something.

If there was an airliner not responding and approaching their air space towards that region, make no mistake. India will shoot it down.

Wrong aircraft incident. You are probably confusing MH 17 with MH 370.

 

[John McWrice]

************

-----> Russian Buk-332 Shot Down MH17

Oooh, man, you've got OLD news. Bellingcat has just botched this thing))) look, here are the photoes from Soledar (Donetzk region, Ukraine, spring 2014). And here we can see Ukrainian article from "Cenzor.net" about Ukrainian SAM BUK units which deploying near Donetzk "to protect this region from Russian AIR strike". And yes, here we can see numbers 312 and 332)

 

[John McWrice]

On January 22, 2017 Committee for the Intelligence and Security Services (CIVD) chief Harm Brouwer furnished the Dutch parliament with data concerning Flight MH-17 crash. According to it only Ukrainian Buk-M-1 SAM systems could shoot down the aircraft.

This information was posted on Twitter by MP Pieter Omtzight: “CIVD chief confirms: according to the investigation, only Ukraine had operable "Buk" SAM systems in the region on July 17".

However, this sensational tweet was ignored by news media. It was found by Ukrainian politologist Vladimir Kornilov a short while ago… It only goes to show that Western governments have no interest in delivering of complete and biased information to their citizens.

Bullshit...
--------------------------
Pieter Omtzigt:
Some Russian media today seem to think that Ukraine had BUK systems in rebel held areas on July 17th 2014. That must be impossible.

-----> Pieter Omtzigt on Twitter

But BUK could shoot from area that wasn't held by rebels.

Yes, it could.

However there's a few pieces of evidence which link it to the rebels. There's a video of the rebels going through the stuff of the plane, seeing it's civilians and getting all rather stressed about it, guiltily so. There's also a report by the rebels about having shot down a plane they believed to be a military jet, but it turns out it wasn't.

More than just reports. JIT included voice communication intercepted recordings of separatist and Russian military officials and other separatist leaders. Those recordings are included in the JIT report.

Who can compare this voices with REAL people?

 

[Xsard]

Oooh, man, you've got OLD news. Bellingcat has just botched this thing))) look, here are the photoes from Soledar (Donetzk region, Ukraine, spring 2014). And here we can see Ukrainian article from "Cenzor.net" about Ukrainian SAM BUK units which deploying near Donetzk "to protect this region from Russian AIR strike". And yes, here we can see numbers 312 and 332)

Я знаю, что ты тупая ватная мразь.
И ты специально пытаешься подменить тему каким-то мусором.

Russian buk 332 shot Down MH17
(...not Ukrainian buk332)
1. https://www.bellingcat.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/The-lost-digit-BUK-3x2_EN_final-1.pdf

2. http://tehrus.livejournal.com/1206.html

Ты сука будешь делать вид, что нихера не понял?