Melting Ice/Rising Sea Levels/Warming Climate

Discussion in 'Environment' started by Dante, Feb 18, 2010.

  1. Dante
    Offline

    Dante On leave Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2008
    Messages:
    52,463
    Thanks Received:
    3,324
    Trophy Points:
    1,825
    Location:
    On leave
    Ratings:
    +6,054
    How is it that people here and elsewhere get away with saying things like... they do not believe a melting ice cap will raise sea levels, because like melting ice in a glass, melting ice caps will not add volume or raise sea levels?
     
  2. Baruch Menachem
    Offline

    Baruch Menachem '

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2008
    Messages:
    14,204
    Thanks Received:
    3,235
    Trophy Points:
    185
    Ratings:
    +3,305
    Much of the ice is on places lie Greenland and in mountains like mt Hood, which most summers nowadays only has very small glaciers.

    But you are right, the hysterics haven't read about Archimedes.

    But, if the hysterics were right, given the supposed level of melting in Greenland and Antarctica ,most of florida should be underwater now.



    However, most of the ice in the Arctic is floating on the ocean. The weight of the ice is the same as the water it displaces, so when the arctic ice melts, it is, as you say, like an ice cube melting in a cup of water. As it melts, the volume of water does not change.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2010
  3. CrusaderFrank
    Offline

    CrusaderFrank Diamond Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2009
    Messages:
    81,268
    Thanks Received:
    14,920
    Trophy Points:
    2,210
    Ratings:
    +37,074
    It's so funny, we had the Wisconsin deglaciation that cause the sea to rise 500 feet, drowning whole cities and civilizations and now if the tempo rises .5% anywhere on the planet, people get hysterical.
     
  4. Toronado3800
    Offline

    Toronado3800 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2009
    Messages:
    3,572
    Thanks Received:
    274
    Trophy Points:
    85
    Ratings:
    +355
    Melting ice does not give the world as a whole more h2o. It can however move it from ice on mountains as mentioned earlier to ice in the sea which would raise sea level.
     
  5. ReAmericaNow
    Offline

    ReAmericaNow Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    43
    Thanks Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Ratings:
    +5
    First, 98% of Antarctica (fifth largest content) is covered with ice appx. 1 mile thick.

    Second, I am glad of that you have heard of Archimedes, but have you heard of Newtonian Physics? It is impossible to accurately measure sea level because there is a giant celestial body that is orbiting our planet roughly 400K km away. As a result, and because of Newtonian Physics, it tends to pull on the oceans (tides). Because Earth is not spherical, and the moon does not travel at the same speed compared to Earth’s speed of rotation. The effect of the moon’s gravity on tides will always be different, so sea level data is worth less. Now your could do a mass balance, or even a volume balance. If you take 100 oz and add a 10oz ice cube to it, you will get a 10% increase in the amount of water.
    See isn’t science fun. =P
     
  6. Luissa
    Offline

    Luissa Annoying Customer Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2008
    Messages:
    43,190
    Thanks Received:
    5,593
    Trophy Points:
    1,785
    Location:
    TARDIS
    Ratings:
    +5,664
    I remember when you could ski Mt Hood at the beginning of the summer.
     
  7. Baruch Menachem
    Offline

    Baruch Menachem '

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2008
    Messages:
    14,204
    Thanks Received:
    3,235
    Trophy Points:
    185
    Ratings:
    +3,305
    The tides don't change the volume of the water. Sea levels are a tidal average.

    The arctic ice cap, which everyone talks about is not adding to the cup of water, it is the ice on top of the cup of water. If it is ice or water does not matter, as the level does not change if the ice cube melts.

    Now the ice on Greenland, and on Antarctica does matter, as that is not sitting in the ocean, and if that melts, then the sea level should increase. And according to the hysterics, it has been melting, and a lot of water is/was contained in that ice.

    But average sea levels have not been rising as much as the hysterics predicted. That means that the amount of water coming off the glaciers is less than they predicted. Which means the melt is less as well.

    That doesn't mean there isn't climate change. Louissa remembers being able to ski on Mt. Hood in the summer. These days the amount of snow Mt Hood gets is such that you can't even ski at timberline until October. And I think the Ski Bowl has shut down as it never gets enough snow to make it worth while to operate anymore.

    It is just important to remember what is part of the normal workings of the natural system, and that the amount we can do for good or ill, is relatively minor.
     
  8. k2skier
    Offline

    k2skier Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2009
    Messages:
    713
    Thanks Received:
    48
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Ratings:
    +50
    You still can. Timberline has skiing all summer long on the Plamer glacier, they only close in October for maintenance.
     
  9. saveliberty
    Offline

    saveliberty Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2009
    Messages:
    42,175
    Thanks Received:
    6,135
    Trophy Points:
    1,830
    Ratings:
    +20,107
    Maybe we can kill more whales and haul them on shore to offset the displacement of glaciers sliding into the ocean. Yes! Man can save the planet. Sorry whales.
     
  10. Toronado3800
    Offline

    Toronado3800 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2009
    Messages:
    3,572
    Thanks Received:
    274
    Trophy Points:
    85
    Ratings:
    +355
    I don't even think us super monkeys have to do anything as heroic as save the planet.

    We just have to not mess it up.
     

Share This Page