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What you seem to be neglecting is that someday you or a member of your family is likely to have huge medical costs that far exceed your yearly premiums. $8,500 is nothing compared to what you will pay for a couple weeks in the hospital or on going care for chronic illnesses such as cancer or heart disease. My wife's medical bills for last year topped a $150,000. 4 days for a bout with pneumonia was $34,000 When you start having serious healthcare expenses come back and tell me $8500 a year is a lot of healthcare and I will say BULL SHIT.What's going on is 5% of the patients are responsible for 50% of the healthcare cost. If you think $8,500 is a lot for healthcare, you apparently haven't dealt with really big medical bills.Neither party is going to do anything with healthcare for several reasons. Healthcare is not as important an issue with voters as it was 4 or 8 years ago. Secondly, neither party has any confidence in their ability to pass legislation that would lower cost while increasing or maintaining coverage and quality of care.Yeah, I've been hearing that song for four years.
The only thing that's being put off until after the election is the mandate that employers who aren't providing Health Coverage pay a fine to pay for medicaid expansion. (And seriously, fuck those guys.) Doesn't maky a wit of difference to companies like the one I work for that already are doing the right thing.
The major change that people want in our healthcare system is lower out of pocket costs. Democrats can't delivery that because they don't have and are not lightly to have enough votes in the House to pass legislation to spend more money on healthcare. Republicans pin their hopes of reducing cost on more completion among insurance companies. The only way that can happen is for federal legislation to stomp all over state regulations and that's not going to happen. Even if there were legislation to encourage more completion between insurance companies, it won't touch the real elephant in the closet, the large increase in medical cost of providing more coverage to really sick people.
Most Important Problem
Gee....the problems of Obamacare defined.
I am still not sure how we spend 8,500 per person per year on health care.
A family of 6 would spend 43,000 per year. I know lots of families of 6 who don't spend anything.
Where the hell is it all going ?
My cousin became very ill and was transported to a trauma center. He spent 21 days in ICU and had 4 operations. He had 15 doctors. The total cost of his medical bills were $470,000. He was responsible for only $5,000, his yearly out of pocket maximum. Insurance paid the remainder.
In a family of 6, just one serious disease requiring hospitalization is likely to cost over $43,000.
Thank you for stating the obvious.
Your cousin sucked up 10 families worth. How frequent is your cousin ?
There isn't a 1 in 10 ratio as near as I can tell.
And yes, I think 8,500 is a lot of healthcare and I have had some major surgeries.
If I had saved that amount over the years, I'd still be ahead if I had paid the entire thing.
I realize that is what insurance is for.
My point being that nothing is going to bring down the cost of insurance as long as we are paying that much per person.
Elect Trump and it'll happen sooner than you think.Medicare for All would cover everyone, save billions in first year: new study
Someday, sooner, we can all hope, rather than later, America will find the sanity and courage to implement a single payer system.
The average cost of one day in the hospital in my state is $3,273/day. In ICU, the sky is the limit. These costs don't include diagnostic tests, fees for doctors, emergency room admission, drugs, IV's surgical costs, Last year, I had gallbladder surgery. The cost of the surgery was $17,300 plus the hospital cost which was about $18,000 for 4 days. The total was about $35,000.What you seem to be neglecting is that someday you or a member of your family is likely to have huge medical costs that far exceed your yearly premiums. $8,500 is nothing compared to what you will pay for a couple weeks in the hospital or on going care for chronic illnesses such as cancer or heart disease. My wife's medical bills for last year topped a $150,000. 4 days for a bout with pneumonia was $34,000 When you start having serious healthcare expenses come back and tell me $8500 a year is a lot of healthcare and I will say BULL SHIT.What's going on is 5% of the patients are responsible for 50% of the healthcare cost. If you think $8,500 is a lot for healthcare, you apparently haven't dealt with really big medical bills.Neither party is going to do anything with healthcare for several reasons. Healthcare is not as important an issue with voters as it was 4 or 8 years ago. Secondly, neither party has any confidence in their ability to pass legislation that would lower cost while increasing or maintaining coverage and quality of care.
The major change that people want in our healthcare system is lower out of pocket costs. Democrats can't delivery that because they don't have and are not lightly to have enough votes in the House to pass legislation to spend more money on healthcare. Republicans pin their hopes of reducing cost on more completion among insurance companies. The only way that can happen is for federal legislation to stomp all over state regulations and that's not going to happen. Even if there were legislation to encourage more completion between insurance companies, it won't touch the real elephant in the closet, the large increase in medical cost of providing more coverage to really sick people.
Most Important Problem
Gee....the problems of Obamacare defined.
I am still not sure how we spend 8,500 per person per year on health care.
A family of 6 would spend 43,000 per year. I know lots of families of 6 who don't spend anything.
Where the hell is it all going ?
My cousin became very ill and was transported to a trauma center. He spent 21 days in ICU and had 4 operations. He had 15 doctors. The total cost of his medical bills were $470,000. He was responsible for only $5,000, his yearly out of pocket maximum. Insurance paid the remainder.
In a family of 6, just one serious disease requiring hospitalization is likely to cost over $43,000.
Thank you for stating the obvious.
Your cousin sucked up 10 families worth. How frequent is your cousin ?
There isn't a 1 in 10 ratio as near as I can tell.
And yes, I think 8,500 is a lot of healthcare and I have had some major surgeries.
If I had saved that amount over the years, I'd still be ahead if I had paid the entire thing.
I realize that is what insurance is for.
My point being that nothing is going to bring down the cost of insurance as long as we are paying that much per person.
You missed where I said I had several major surgeries ?
Or does that upset your little fairy tale.
I've put in on a spreadsheet...and like I said, I come out ahead.
If I put my kids on that same sheet, I make out like a bandit.
...and I know a woman whose final bill arrived recently for her kidney transplant.
$836,000.
...and I know a woman whose final bill arrived recently for her kidney transplant.
$836,000.
Hard to imagine a million dollars for even that.
But, we suck it up.
That takes a lot of money.......
These are special instances.
I won't go into everything I think should be involved here.
But there is an extreme in everything.
Due to Obamacare that is no longer the case. Good doctors are refusing medicare these days. What good is it if you cannot find a doctor who is competent?I was an executive in health insurance companies and HMO's for my entire career, but I have never had health insurance myself, that was as good as Medicare, except for the donut hole in prescriptions. That would go away instantly if Big Pharm. had not successfully lobbied for, and got, a law passed forbidding the government to negotiate drug prices.
...and I know a woman whose final bill arrived recently for her kidney transplant.
$836,000.
Hard to imagine a million dollars for even that.
But, we suck it up.
That takes a lot of money.......
These are special instances.
I won't go into everything I think should be involved here.
But there is an extreme in everything.
That figure is not extreme. My wife's first husband was diagnosed with leukemia when he was only 52 years old. He fought it for 14 months before he died. The hospital bill ALONE was $1,175,000.
Due to Obamacare that is no longer the case. Good doctors are refusing medicare these days. What good is it if you cannot find a doctor who is competent?I was an executive in health insurance companies and HMO's for my entire career, but I have never had health insurance myself, that was as good as Medicare, except for the donut hole in prescriptions. That would go away instantly if Big Pharm. had not successfully lobbied for, and got, a law passed forbidding the government to negotiate drug prices.
...and I know a woman whose final bill arrived recently for her kidney transplant.
$836,000.
Hard to imagine a million dollars for even that.
But, we suck it up.
That takes a lot of money.......
These are special instances.
I won't go into everything I think should be involved here.
But there is an extreme in everything.
That figure is not extreme. My wife's first husband was diagnosed with leukemia when he was only 52 years old. He fought it for 14 months before he died. The hospital bill ALONE was $1,175,000.
I have to say I have never heard of a hospital bill that comes even close to what you describe.
I would say it is pretty extreme and on the far end of any distribution regarding costs.
I don't dispute that it happened.
I still say it is pretty uncommon.
My brother's brain cancer was about $250,000. It would have been a lot more but he threw in towel and asked for Hospice....and I know a woman whose final bill arrived recently for her kidney transplant.
$836,000.
Hard to imagine a million dollars for even that.
But, we suck it up.
That takes a lot of money.......
These are special instances.
I won't go into everything I think should be involved here.
But there is an extreme in everything.
That figure is not extreme. My wife's first husband was diagnosed with leukemia when he was only 52 years old. He fought it for 14 months before he died. The hospital bill ALONE was $1,175,000.
While I agree that is the way it used to be - it isn't that way now, Vandalshandle. You need to find out why many doctors are no longer accepting medicare. It's a nationwide problem these days. Again - what good is it if you cannot find a competent doctor that accepts medicare anymore?Due to Obamacare that is no longer the case. Good doctors are refusing medicare these days. What good is it if you cannot find a doctor who is competent?I was an executive in health insurance companies and HMO's for my entire career, but I have never had health insurance myself, that was as good as Medicare, except for the donut hole in prescriptions. That would go away instantly if Big Pharm. had not successfully lobbied for, and got, a law passed forbidding the government to negotiate drug prices.
Urban myth. I live in a retirement community of 31,000 people, all of whom are at least 55 years old, and an average age of 74. I can see my doctor within 5 working days. In addition, I have had no problem with getting in to a pain clinic, orthopedic specialist, podiatrist, Hospital, urgent care, as well as a surgeon for rotator cuff injury, x-rays, MRI, and gastrointestinal specialist. Everybody I know is over 65, and on Medicare, and every single one of them has all the medical support that they need. In fact, when one lives in a retirement community, the two main topics of conversation are grandchildren and medical issues. Nobody complains about not getting to see a doctor.
While I agree that is the way it used to be - it isn't that way now, Vandalshandle. You need to find out why many doctors are no longer accepting medicare. It's a nationwide problem these days. Again - what good is it if you cannot find a competent doctor that accepts medicare anymore?Due to Obamacare that is no longer the case. Good doctors are refusing medicare these days. What good is it if you cannot find a doctor who is competent?I was an executive in health insurance companies and HMO's for my entire career, but I have never had health insurance myself, that was as good as Medicare, except for the donut hole in prescriptions. That would go away instantly if Big Pharm. had not successfully lobbied for, and got, a law passed forbidding the government to negotiate drug prices.
Urban myth. I live in a retirement community of 31,000 people, all of whom are at least 55 years old, and an average age of 74. I can see my doctor within 5 working days. In addition, I have had no problem with getting in to a pain clinic, orthopedic specialist, podiatrist, Hospital, urgent care, as well as a surgeon for rotator cuff injury, x-rays, MRI, and gastrointestinal specialist. Everybody I know is over 65, and on Medicare, and every single one of them has all the medical support that they need. In fact, when one lives in a retirement community, the two main topics of conversation are grandchildren and medical issues. Nobody complains about not getting to see a doctor.
While I agree that is the way it used to be - it isn't that way now, Vandalshandle. You need to find out why many doctors are no longer accepting medicare. It's a nationwide problem these days. Again - what good is it if you cannot find a competent doctor that accepts medicare anymore?Due to Obamacare that is no longer the case. Good doctors are refusing medicare these days. What good is it if you cannot find a doctor who is competent?I was an executive in health insurance companies and HMO's for my entire career, but I have never had health insurance myself, that was as good as Medicare, except for the donut hole in prescriptions. That would go away instantly if Big Pharm. had not successfully lobbied for, and got, a law passed forbidding the government to negotiate drug prices.
Urban myth. I live in a retirement community of 31,000 people, all of whom are at least 55 years old, and an average age of 74. I can see my doctor within 5 working days. In addition, I have had no problem with getting in to a pain clinic, orthopedic specialist, podiatrist, Hospital, urgent care, as well as a surgeon for rotator cuff injury, x-rays, MRI, and gastrointestinal specialist. Everybody I know is over 65, and on Medicare, and every single one of them has all the medical support that they need. In fact, when one lives in a retirement community, the two main topics of conversation are grandchildren and medical issues. Nobody complains about not getting to see a doctor.
I was being kind to call that an urban myth. It is actually Conservative propaganda that has been pulled out of thin air in an effort to discredit ACA and Medicare. In other words, it is pure bull shit, made up by people who aren't even insured under Medicare. Having had 50 years of health Insurance executive experience, and having been covered by Medicare for 6 years, I know RW bull shit about health insurance and provider contracts when I hear it. In fact, federal law does not even permit an insurance company to sell Medicare Advantage plans in any zip code which is not fully covered by contracted providers. If what you were saying is true, every Medicare Advantage plan that is not fully staffed by providers within 50 miles of a covered person's address, would have to be shut down...by law. In my zip code, which is a semi-rural area, there are three Medicare Advantage plans being sold by three HMO's. Caremore, Humana and United Health.
Should be a law outlawing state and federal employees from unionizing.While I agree that is the way it used to be - it isn't that way now, Vandalshandle. You need to find out why many doctors are no longer accepting medicare. It's a nationwide problem these days. Again - what good is it if you cannot find a competent doctor that accepts medicare anymore?Due to Obamacare that is no longer the case. Good doctors are refusing medicare these days. What good is it if you cannot find a doctor who is competent?I was an executive in health insurance companies and HMO's for my entire career, but I have never had health insurance myself, that was as good as Medicare, except for the donut hole in prescriptions. That would go away instantly if Big Pharm. had not successfully lobbied for, and got, a law passed forbidding the government to negotiate drug prices.
Urban myth. I live in a retirement community of 31,000 people, all of whom are at least 55 years old, and an average age of 74. I can see my doctor within 5 working days. In addition, I have had no problem with getting in to a pain clinic, orthopedic specialist, podiatrist, Hospital, urgent care, as well as a surgeon for rotator cuff injury, x-rays, MRI, and gastrointestinal specialist. Everybody I know is over 65, and on Medicare, and every single one of them has all the medical support that they need. In fact, when one lives in a retirement community, the two main topics of conversation are grandchildren and medical issues. Nobody complains about not getting to see a doctor.
I was being kind to call that an urban myth. It is actually Conservative propaganda that has been pulled out of thin air in an effort to discredit ACA and Medicare. In other words, it is pure bull shit, made up by people who aren't even insured under Medicare. Having had 50 years of health Insurance executive experience, and having been covered by Medicare for 6 years, I know RW bull shit about health insurance and provider contracts when I hear it. In fact, federal law does not even permit an insurance company to sell Medicare Advantage plans in any zip code which is not fully covered by contracted providers. If what you were saying is true, every Medicare Advantage plan that is not fully staffed by providers within 50 miles of a covered person's address, would have to be shut down...by law. In my zip code, which is a semi-rural area, there are three Medicare Advantage plans being sold by three HMO's. Caremore, Humana and United Health.
For those of you advocating single payer, I'm wondering how you would expect government to deal with unionized doctors, and the inevitable strikes that would result.
Medicare for All would cover everyone, save billions in first year: new study
Economist says Canadian-style, single-payer health plan would reap huge savings from reduced paperwork and from negotiated drug prices, enough to pay for quality coverage for all at less cost to families and businesses
Upgrading the nations Medicare program and expanding it to cover people of all ages would yield more than a half-trillion dollars in efficiency savings in its first year of operation, enough to pay for high-quality, comprehensive health benefits for all residents of the United States at a lower cost to most individuals, families and businesses.
Thats the chief finding of a new fiscal study by Gerald Friedman, a professor of economics at the University of Massachusetts, Amherst. There would even be money left over to help pay down the national debt, he said.
Friedman says his analysis shows that a nonprofit single-payer system based on the principles of the Expanded and Improved Medicare for All Act, H.R. 676, introduced by Rep. John Conyers Jr., D-Mich., and co-sponsored by 45 other lawmakers, would save an estimated $592 billion in 2014. That would be more than enough to cover all 44 million people the government estimates will be uninsured in that year and to upgrade benefits for everyone else.
No other plan can achieve this magnitude of savings on health care, Friedman said.
His findings were released this morning [Wednesday, July 31, 11 a.m. EDT] at a congressional briefing in the Cannon House Office Building hosted by Public Citizen and Physicians for a National Health Program, followed by a 1 p.m. news conference with Rep. Conyers and others in observance of Medicares 48th anniversary at the House Triangle near the Capitol steps. A copy of Friedmans full report, with tables and charts, is available here.
Friedman said the savings would come from slashing the administrative waste associated with todays private health insurance industry ($476 billion) and using the new, public systems bargaining muscle to negotiate pharmaceutical drug prices down to European levels ($116 billion).
These savings would be more than enough to fund $343 billion in improvements to our health system, including the achievement of truly universal coverage, improved benefits, and the elimination of premiums, co-payments and deductibles, which are major barriers to people seeking care, he said.
*snip*
