MSNBC was doing its usual US media service of laundering government wrongdoing by having a group discussion over torture. What the US media does is discuss at length all the political input over US torture in what looks like a factual discussion of the topic but is actually no more than a way of morally 'laundering' the issue by pretending to be addressing it. The pretend discussion about US torture talks about all the opinions about it and then wraps it up. The result - absolutely nothing except the false suggestion media actually confronted the issue. Then Matt Lauer comes in just at the right time and says "Cheney's views are very popular at the moment". That's an absolutely false and disgusting lie, the intention of which is to give some media-generated validity to Cheney's criminal viewpoint. The truth is Cheney's views are actually very unpopular as polls and the 2006 election showed. Both the 2006 election and Obama presidency were had on a wave of resentment against Cheney and his views with the expectation of promised "change". It is an utterly disgusting falsehood to suggest Cheney's views are "popular right now". But there's Matt Lauer doing it for his corporate media paycheck and duty to an institution designed not to keep the government in check and balance to but to insert views of manufactured consent into the minds of the public for the government. The result is a weakening of the public's power and strengthening of a media/government alliance. It's not exposed as much as it deserves, however Herren Immelt (GE Fuehrer) und Zucker (NBC Fuehrer) are deeply committed to forcing public opinion ever further towards the obamazon administration. The payoffs come when healthcare goes online and lo and behold GE inserts its Healthmagination wing into the breech to convert all the paper medical records to electronic bits. They've gone so far as to BUY ad time on Fox News, all about Healthmagination, evidently hoping to get an audience since their "news" shows get so little. As far as "cap and trade" I'm still not entirely clear on HOW GE plans to rape...er reap....no rape is the right word.... the public for money, but I seem to recall it has to do with being green already (or having an arm of the admin SAY you're green) and selling/buying/trading energy allowances. If anyone knows how this is really theorized to work please post. NBC and their satellite channels are all in the present admin's pocket and they don't go there cheaply.