M14 says Jesus advocates lawlessness

[Taomon]

EXACTLY. Haven't met an atheist and non-Christian yet who doesn't claim HE knows what being a "real" Christian should look like even though it always requires totally re-interpreting Christian doctrine to suit his own agenda. Oddly enough, it is an arrogance they never adopt when discussing ANY non-Christian religion.

Interesting take on that. As a Christian who walked away from the church (but not Christ's teachings) I will speak on behalf of secularists on this. What pisses us off about Christians is their interpretations of the Bible that assault the ethics and morals of anyone outside of their own sect.

AllieBaba was explaining to us on another thread that she is mandated to judge non-Christians by the Bible and that during the second coming of Christ she (all other true believers) will be tasked with judging the rest of us.

That is simply inaccurate and egotistical, not to mention insulting.

I have heard so many interpretations of the Bible that it leads me to reject it. How can a book that people claim is the word of God bring so much pain, bloodshed and division? It is not the word of God, it is the words of men. And that is why Christians are hypocritical.

They want to save baby's from abortions (actually, they are saving fetus' from abortion and I have stated that no one knows when a fetus becomes human and has consciousness) and they will kill adults to do so.

They feel homosexuality is a sin and punishable by brutal intervention, if not death.

Hmmm, double standards are no way to win the hearts and minds of non-Christians or even moderate Christians.

 

[Care4all]

I responded to Manifold's initial statement. The argument of free will is a major nutroll all by itself. I don't presume to think I know what Jesus would or wouldn't do beyond any precedence he has set by his actions, or thoughts he has expressed in words.

Based on that, it is safe to say that Jesus was a nonviolent sort; even though, he did trash the moneychangers' temple. He preached a message contrary to that of the church/state. He DEFINTELY preached a message contrary to the Roman rulers' beliefs. He DID live according to his beliefs and not theirs.

While not a Biblical scholar, I feel safe in assuming that where Man's law conflicts with God's, Jesus would say to obey God's. In the context of my previous post, that would mean where the law does not conflict, to obey Man's law as well as God's.

Jesus' final act kind of says where he stood on the issue. He was crucified for his beliefs and refusal to conform. Whether or not he chose to alter his beliefs and or conform is exercising free will. The decision was his, as was the consequence.

Now weigh that against the argument that everything from Day One to the last is preordained. If God knows alreadyt what one is going to do, how is that exercising free will? Is it really free? How is acting out a script in any way exercising free will?

For those who believe in God/Christianity, there is no answer because the two ideals contradict and we do not know for sure which is true.

Damn Gunny, gotta spread some around or you'd get a pos rep for this post too!

I think at some point, those of us that have religion or are religious, need to say to ourselves that we do not know all....that there are somethings that we don't know and may never know until we reach the thereafter...NOT EVERYTHING has been spelled out in the Bible....there are Mysteries of Faith involved...

I personally I am not so narrow minded to believe that what I believe is the only way and the right way or anything like this...I just know that I have faith, that it will all be worked out for the Good in the end! hahahaha

care

 

[Gunny]

Damn Gunny, gotta spread some around or you'd get a pos rep for this post too!

I think at some point, those of us that have religion or are religious, need to say to ourselves that we do not know all....that there are somethings that we don't know and may never know until we reach the thereafter...NOT EVERYTHING has been spelled out in the Bible....there are Mysteries of Faith involved...

I personally I am not so narrow minded to believe that what I believe is the only way and the right way or anything like this...I just know that I have faith, that it will all be worked out for the Good in the end! hahahaha

care

I'm not sure it's even a matter of knowledge. Most believe "their way" is "the way," or they wouldn't hold the belief, IMO.

That does not require ramming it down other's throats and or being intolerant of them simply for not believing as you do. I most certainly do not limit that to religion alone. It applies equally as well to politics.

I agree that there are "mysteries" -- unanswerd questions -- involved. People filling in the blanks themselves and using their guesswork as a basis for intolerance to others doesn't cut it with me, and is certainly NOT behavior that's endorsed by Christ.