Looks like the Bush Team is at it again

[Bonnie]

It’s the suggestions they make that are so insulting to our intelligence. It’s almost comical that you all think the GOP is incapable of playing politics with fear. Most of you are far more intelligent then the average Yahoo poster, I would love to see the day when one of you would call BS on this crap. When it walks like it, talks like it, call it what it is, fear mongering. Ridge came out, suggested an attack was imminent (sound familiar?) and we had “new” information to back it up. While they never actually flat-out lie, they push the truth to the breaking point.

Thats a rich statement coming from someone who supports Kerry who not only stretches the truth but couldn't find the truth if it was pinned to his chest by his mommy :baby4:

 

[DKSuddeth]

just a thought, but after 9/11 happened and before the runup to the iraq war, didn't we uncover some intelligence that listed the possibility that there were plans for using more than 4 planes and that other cities were targeted as well...i.e. San Fran, Dallas, Chicago????? Does any of that ring a bell with anyone and if it does, is it not possible that these 4 year old plans were initially for 9/11?

 

[Merlin1047]

Anybody know where that kettle of kool-aid is?

Do we need a fresh batch?

 

[HGROKIT]

just a thought, but after 9/11 happened and before the runup to the iraq war, didn't we uncover some intelligence that listed the possibility that there were plans for using more than 4 planes and that other cities were targeted as well...i.e. San Fran, Dallas, Chicago????? Does any of that ring a bell with anyone and if it does, is it not possible that these 4 year old plans were initially for 9/11?

I remember that and Seattle was on there as well.

Your thsesis could be true. It could also be true that this was supposed to be a follow on attack. I am certain that 9/11 was years in the making. Nothing that detailed or chorreographed was thought up, planned and implemented over night.

 

[DKSuddeth]

I remember that and Seattle was on there as well.

Your thsesis could be true. It could also be true that this was supposed to be a follow on attack. I am certain that 9/11 was years in the making. Nothing that detailed or chorreographed was thought up, planned and implemented over night.

I remember something about 9/11 was 5 to 7 years in the planning. It certainly is possible for both ways, that should be considered.


If anyone remembers or has links to those stories, post em. I wish I could remember them.

 

[Annie]

just a thought, but after 9/11 happened and before the runup to the iraq war, didn't we uncover some intelligence that listed the possibility that there were plans for using more than 4 planes and that other cities were targeted as well...i.e. San Fran, Dallas, Chicago????? Does any of that ring a bell with anyone and if it does, is it not possible that these 4 year old plans were initially for 9/11?

I remember what you are speaking of. Could be 9/11, could be future attacks. It seems they test and test and test. They collect data like the school system, over and over, regardless of relevancy.

But once again, refering to the Instapundit post, if no attempt is made to 'connect the dots' what will happen?

 

[5stringJeff]

I remember something about 9/11 was 5 to 7 years in the planning. It certainly is possible for both ways, that should be considered.


If anyone remembers or has links to those stories, post em. I wish I could remember them.

I remember the stories also... one of the skyscrapers in Seattle was on the list and they talked about it here for a few days.

If 9/11 took 5-7 years to plan, I'm not surprised that there are other long term plans.

 

[HGROKIT]

I remember something about 9/11 was 5 to 7 years in the planning. It certainly is possible for both ways, that should be considered.


If anyone remembers or has links to those stories, post em. I wish I could remember them.

I just googled it and cannot get anything older than this year and can't seem to locate the archives. My bad!

 

[Annie]

I remember something about 9/11 was 5 to 7 years in the planning. It certainly is possible for both ways, that should be considered.


If anyone remembers or has links to those stories, post em. I wish I could remember them.

I'm looking, here's one.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/US/alqaeda_tape030303_preview.html

 

[Annie]

I'm looking, here's one.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/US/alqaeda_tape030303_preview.html

This has bits and pieces of things that might be worth googling.

http://www.freep.com/news/nw/terror2001/arrest21_20010921.htm

 

[Annie]

This has bits and pieces of things that might be worth googling.

http://www.freep.com/news/nw/terror2001/arrest21_20010921.htm

One more. http://www.washtimes.com/world/20040330-120655-9785r.htm

Want more specific? I'll check.

 

[DKSuddeth]

thats good for now. thanks.

 

[JIHADTHIS]

So it looks like old Dubya and Co. were just playing games again. Just when I was ready to take them at their word about this “alert”, we have more exaggerations and misrepresentations. .............bullshit, bullshit,bullshit and then bullshit,bullshit,bullshit................... This is very disappointing and yet another example of this Administration’s cynical, arrogant, disingenuous nature.

Someone else mentioned this before: If this was purely political fear mongering, would it not have made more sense to do this during the DemocraticReinventionConvention in Bahston last week?

What does the administration have to gain by issuing a so-called false alert? NYC has been under a hightened alert since the morning of 9/11. If you were ever here, you'd know.........

 

[Annie]

So it looks like old Dubya and Co. were just playing games again. Just when I was ready to take them at their word about this “alert”, we have more exaggerations and misrepresentations. Republicans, you have to feel like this is an insult to your intelligence. Issuing a “Terror Alert”, suggesting an immediate danger based on 4-year-old information. Just imagine if the British had done this every time the IRA threatened to bomb something. Its playing politics with peoples’ fear, its fear mongering, and it’s not right. The right thing to do would have been to disclose everything, including the fact that the information is old. This is very disappointing and yet another example of this Administration’s cynical, arrogant, disingenuous nature.

Most up to date site I've found, with mucho links, including to the NYT and selected emphasis by:

http://michellemalkin.com/archives/000333.htm

"NOT NEW" DOES NOT EQUAL "NO THREAT"
By Michelle Malkin · August 02, 2004 09:48 PM
So, the big Drudge headline of the night reveals that the New York Times is running with this story:

QAIDA DOCUMENTS YEARS OLD, BUT OFFICIALS SEE A REAL THREAT
Much of the information that led authorities to raise the terror alert at several large financial institutions in the NY and D.C. areas was 3 or 4 years old... NYT Tuesday Page One Splash To Claim: Intelligence and law enforcement officials 'had not yet found concrete evidence that a terror plot or preparatory surveillance operations were still under way'...


The prescient New York Post editorial board has already answered what will be predictable criticisms from the Bush-bashers about the new/old terror alerts. In an editorial published this morning, the Post notes:

It in no way diminishes the gravity of the terror warnings issued yesterday in Washington and at City Hall to ask:
So, what else is new?

Yes, Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge said the information made public yesterday was obtained within the past 36 hours.

But while the material is alarmingly specific — Police Commissioner Ray Kelly termed it "a detailed vulnerability analysis" — it is not dated.

In that sense, all that can really be discerned from the new data is that the terrorists are watching New York City.

Closely.

But that's not new.

It's not clear when they started, but their first serious attempt to kill New Yorkers occurred in a World Trade Center parking garage more than a decade ago — an intricately planned, if somewhat clumsily executed, effort.

And 9/11, in all its tragic particulars, speaks for itself.

There was never any reason to think al Qaeda had quit plotting yet another strike on the American homeland. The information made public yesterday only confirms that unhappy reality.

True, it is difficult to gauge the immediacy of the threat.

So while there could be an attack tomorrow, it is also might not come until next month, or next year — or even later than that.

Maybe it never will come, an outcome that will involve either a lot of luck, a large pile of dead terrorists — or both.

Bottom line: It will require a vigorously prosecuted, unambiguous war on terrorism of the sort President Bush has been waging since the day after the Twin Towers fell...


Read the whole thing here.

Update: The New York Times report is up and there's more spin on it than my daughter's Barbie fishing reel. Here are the key buried passages:

The officials said on Monday that they were still analyzing computer records, photos, drawings and other documents, seized last month in Pakistan, which showed that Qaeda operatives had conducted extensive reconnaissance. "What we've uncovered is a collection operation as opposed to the launching of an attack," a senior American official said.
Still, the official said the new trove of material, which was being sifted for fresh clues, combined with more recent flows of intelligence, had demonstrated that Al Qaeda remains active and intent on attacking the United States...


And this waaay down deep at the end of the article:

Senior counterterrorism and intelligence officials based in Europe said the information targeting the five buildings was developed by Qaeda operatives before Sept. 11, 2001. But a senior European counterterrorism official cautioned that "some recent information'' indicated that the buildings might remain on a list of Qaeda targets.
"Al Qaeda routinely comes up with ways to hit targets for years at a time, so it may not mean much that these buildings were first targeted more than three years ago,'' the official said.


Update II: In the Bullpen adds somes helpful reminders:

The information obtained might be old, however it is not as if Al Qaeda hadn’t spent years surveying and planning other terrorists attacks. It is rumored that Al Qaeda planned the attacks on embassies in Kenya and Tanzania for over five years. Photographs and videos have since been found with pictures of the U.S. embassy in Kenya that date back to 1992, six full years before the bombing.
Recent reports also indicate that the attack on the USS Cole took three years to plan and implement. In fact their first try at a United States warship was unsuccessful when their boat filled with explosives sunk.

Terrorists have indicated that they intend on attacking the United States. They have declared war on us. The whole world saw what type of effect can be made in terms of the election process when terrorism strikes with the victory that Al Qaeda made in Spain. It is undeniably accurate that Al Qaeda would like to influence our election by a terrorist attack...

 

[TheOne]

Seems like a great day to re-open the Statue of Liberty...I mean with the heightened alert status and all right down the street.

STATUE OF LIBERTY TO REOPEN AUGUST 3, 2004


Visitors to New York City this summer will enjoy greater access to the Statue of Liberty. After a multi-million dollar renovation, the Statue will be open on August 3. Visitors will be able to explore the Statue of Liberty museum, peer into the intricate inner structure through a glass ceiling near the base of the statue, and enjoy the 360 degree view from the observation deck on top of the 16-story pedestal. At this time there are no plans to allow visitors to enter the interior of the statue itself.

A new reservations ticketing system will help eliminate long lines. Planned security enhancements include a secondary screening process and improved exits. The Statue of Liberty was closed after September 11, 2001 and has remained closed even though visits to the island resumed December 2001.

article

 

[Democrat4Bush]

:wank:

 

[westutexas]

Full disclosure or not, the theme remains the same. This country in at the center of a bull's eye. Take bits of information from three years ago, one year ago, three months ago, last week - put them all together with the previous alert (one that any fool could have deduced) that our election process is prime time for an attack - and you end up with a very valid and timely response by the government. Every part of the US should be vigilent in the coming months. I see the power plays of politics going full force on both sides. I will take safety over semantics any day While our country bickers away the terrorist chuckle patiently...

 

[Annie]

Full disclosure or not, the theme remains the same. This country in at the center of a bull's eye. Take bits of information from three years ago, one year ago, three months ago, last week - put them all together with the previous alert (one that any fool could have deduced) that our election process is prime time for an attack - and you end up with a very valid and timely response by the government. Every part of the US should be vigilent in the coming months. I see the power plays of politics going full force on both sides. I will take safety over semantics any day While our country bickers away the terrorist chuckle patiently...

Great first post! WELCOME, Westutexas!!

 

[Palestinian Jew]

So it looks like old Dubya and Co. were just playing games again. Just when I was ready to take them at their word about this “alert”, we have more exaggerations and misrepresentations. Republicans, you have to feel like this is an insult to your intelligence. Issuing a “Terror Alert”, suggesting an immediate danger based on 4-year-old information. Just imagine if the British had done this every time the IRA threatened to bomb something. Its playing politics with peoples’ fear, its fear mongering, and it’s not right. The right thing to do would have been to disclose everything, including the fact that the information is old. This is very disappointing and yet another example of this Administration’s cynical, arrogant, disingenuous nature.

You are giving those of us on the left a bad name.

Al-Qaeda takes a long time to plan, 4 years is not old by their standards, and it is a real danger when we learn that its been updated in January of this year.

What makes it "playing politics"? The warning was given Sunday with enough time for Kerry to get a bounce after the DNC. Dean's comments that this intelligence wasn't released for 3 weeks have been disproven by the NYT.

Do you honestly think this is "fear mongering"? Most Americans don't care about terror alerts anymore, as Bill Mahr put it, "Ridge has turned my gruesome death into something that is dull".

 

[Annie]

You are giving those of us on the left a bad name.

Al-Qaeda takes a long time to plan, 4 years is not old by their standards, and it is a real danger when we learn that its been updated in January of this year.

What makes it "playing politics"? The warning was given Sunday with enough time for Kerry to get a bounce after the DNC. Dean's comments that this intelligence wasn't released for 3 weeks have been disproven by the NYT.

Do you honestly think this is "fear mongering"? Most Americans don't care about terror alerts anymore, as Bill Mahr put it, "Ridge has turned my gruesome death into something that is dull".

And PJ, that's why we have civil discourse and you have earned some respect amoung many of us!