Jarlaxle
Gold Member
If Liz mentioned wanting a Volt, I would suspect alien abduction and replacement with a clone!
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Wow, the build price is dropping like a stone, the lie used to be $250,000!2013 MSRP on a Volt is just shy of $40,000 but it costs GM 60-70,000 to build, Thank you Gov't subsidy!. Contrast that with my Wife's Toyota Yaris which was $14,000 and gets an average of 38-40 MPG (44 on one stretch).
How many years would it take to make up $26,000 in gas savings to justify the initial expense?
The CON$ervoFascist Brotherhood have been making up phony "cost to build" numbers for the Volt for quite some time, but there are still some morons stupid enough to believe them no matter how many times they are debunked.
If You Want To Attack The Volt, Try To Get Your Math Right
Here's the story. Four days ago, we dissected in some detail Matt Drudge's uninformed war against the Volt. He promptly posted two more anti-Volt headlines the next day.
One of them linked to an article on Michigan Capital Confidential citing a study by James Hohman, assistant director of fiscal policy at the Mackinac Center for Public Policy.
A quarter of a meeeeellion dollars !!
The report claims that every Chevrolet Volt is the beneficiary of a quarter of a million dollars of state and Federal subsidies. Yes, the car with a 2012 retail price of $39,995 carries $250,000 of Your Tax Dollars in its load bay.
Hohman added up all the known state and Federal incentives to obtain a "total value offered to the Volt," not only for General Motors but also its suppliers.
A total of "18 government deals that included loans, rebates, grants and tax credits" are included. The total loan amounts are apparently listed in full, even though the loans are intended to be be paid back with interest.
Hohman then divided the sum by the number of Volts sold as of November 30. The result prompted him to call the Volt "the most government-supported car since the Trabant," the East German plastic-bodied two-cylinder minicar.
The denominator problem
As Wahlman notes, the egregious flaw in this calculation is "the denominator problem"--to what base of cars do you apply the analysis?
2011 Chevrolet Volt Production Line
Dividing the number of Volts sold to date (6,468 as of November 30) into the total incentives that apply to all Volts past, present, and future is either dopey or intellectually dishonest.
You could as easily say that on December 15 last year, the day the first Volt was delivered to a retail buyer, it carried a stunning, incredible, unconscionable $1.5 BILLION in subsidies. You'd be doing the same thing: dividing by the number of Volts sold, or 1.
My car is sooooo much prettier.
Pretty matters.
One more thing about pretty....
Here's the 2014 Cadillac ELR
Same powertrain as the Volt.....now THAT is purty....
....
1. Based on energy use, the Volt has been averaging close to 2 miles per kilowatt-hour, which, according to the EPA, is the equivalent of 65 mpg. But thats for the first 25 miles or so, on battery alone.
2. GM says recharge times are about 4 hours with a 240-volt supply, and 10 to 12 hours with 120 volts. Our Volt has been taking almost 13 kWh in about 5 hours every time we charge. Volt buyers should purchase a 220-volt (Level 2) charger.
a. At the national average rate of 11 cents per kWh, the Volt costs about 5.7 cents per mile in electric mode and 10 cents a mile after that- if gas is $3 per gallon.
b. A Toyota Prius costs 6.8 cents per mile, and a gas powered Honda Fit costs about 10 cents per mile (but the price is less than half of that of the Volt).
3. In the Northeast, electricity cost is a lot higher. For example:
Sep. 22, 2010: ($0.27 per kWh)
Aug. 23, 2010: ($0.24 per kWh)
Jul. 23, 2010: ($0.29 per kWh)
Jun. 23, 2010: ($0.28 per kWh)
May 24, 2010: ($0.41 per kWh)
Apr. 23, 2010: ($0.87 per kWh)
W303 » New York City Electricity Con Edison Kwh Charge History
4.So, the Volt works as an electric car with a gas backup .but it is not much of a money saver in many places. For now, the Volt is an expensive way to be green.
That is true if the vehicle is PURCHASED. We are LEASING the vehicle for 36 months. With our down-payment, my original estimate of electricity costs (higher than actual), and my original estimate of fuel costs (way higher than actual), the Volt was still a financially better move than leasing an Equinox or a Malibu at that time.
Since then, the lease rates for Volt have dropped another $100/month, so it would REALLY be a better deal for us.
2013 MSRP on a Volt is just shy of $40,000 but it costs GM 60-70,000 to build, Thank you Gov't subsidy!. Contrast that with my Wife's Toyota Yaris which was $14,000 and gets an average of 38-40 MPG (44 on one stretch).
How many years would it take to make up $26,000 in gas savings to justify the initial expense?
It will catch fire first...
You actually wasted your time replying to a lame attempt at humor? You have more patience than I do.2013 MSRP on a Volt is just shy of $40,000 but it costs GM 60-70,000 to build, Thank you Gov't subsidy!. Contrast that with my Wife's Toyota Yaris which was $14,000 and gets an average of 38-40 MPG (44 on one stretch).
How many years would it take to make up $26,000 in gas savings to justify the initial expense?
It will catch fire first...
No it won't.
To deny the forcing of the electric car on the American public isn't based on politics is idiotic....Let's try to keep the discussion on what it is....a car.....and not what it is not.....a political football.
2013 MSRP on a Volt is just shy of $40,000 but it costs GM 60-70,000 to build, Thank you Gov't subsidy!. Contrast that with my Wife's Toyota Yaris which was $14,000 and gets an average of 38-40 MPG (44 on one stretch).
How many years would it take to make up $26,000 in gas savings to justify the initial expense?
"tragic"??To deny that petroleum based energy is political is tragic.
....
1. Based on energy use, the Volt has been averaging close to 2 miles per kilowatt-hour, which, according to the EPA, is the equivalent of 65 mpg. But thats for the first 25 miles or so, on battery alone.
2. GM says recharge times are about 4 hours with a 240-volt supply, and 10 to 12 hours with 120 volts. Our Volt has been taking almost 13 kWh in about 5 hours every time we charge. Volt buyers should purchase a 220-volt (Level 2) charger.
a. At the national average rate of 11 cents per kWh, the Volt costs about 5.7 cents per mile in electric mode and 10 cents a mile after that- if gas is $3 per gallon.
b. A Toyota Prius costs 6.8 cents per mile, and a gas powered Honda Fit costs about 10 cents per mile (but the price is less than half of that of the Volt).
3. In the Northeast, electricity cost is a lot higher. For example:
Sep. 22, 2010: ($0.27 per kWh)
Aug. 23, 2010: ($0.24 per kWh)
Jul. 23, 2010: ($0.29 per kWh)
Jun. 23, 2010: ($0.28 per kWh)
May 24, 2010: ($0.41 per kWh)
Apr. 23, 2010: ($0.87 per kWh)
W303 » New York City Electricity Con Edison Kwh Charge History
4.So, the Volt works as an electric car with a gas backup .but it is not much of a money saver in many places. For now, the Volt is an expensive way to be green.
That is true if the vehicle is PURCHASED. We are LEASING the vehicle for 36 months. With our down-payment, my original estimate of electricity costs (higher than actual), and my original estimate of fuel costs (way higher than actual), the Volt was still a financially better move than leasing an Equinox or a Malibu at that time.
Since then, the lease rates for Volt have dropped another $100/month, so it would REALLY be a better deal for us.
Pay no mind. She is Conservative and the only posts they accept is.....The Volt must FAIL
Can you run the air conditioner during the summer months while the Volt is on battery power?
Yes you can. The Volt is ALWAYS on electric power. The wheels are always turned by an electric motor. The only purpose the gas engine serves is to power the electric motor if/when you run out of battery power.
The AC never draws off of the gas engine as is the case in conventional cars. Running the AC full blast will reduce your battery range, but otherwise, nothing is different.
To deny the forcing of the electric car on the American public isn't based on politics is idiotic....Let's try to keep the discussion on what it is....a car.....and not what it is not.....a political football.
I like those too/My car is sooooo much prettier.
Pretty matters.
One more thing about pretty....
Here's the 2014 Cadillac ELR
Same powertrain as the Volt.....now THAT is purty....
To deny the forcing of the electric car on the American public isn't based on politics is idiotic....Let's try to keep the discussion on what it is....a car.....and not what it is not.....a political football.
Who is forcing on the Chinese public? The German public? The French public? The Japanese public? Could it possibly be that American automakers realize that in order to be able to compete in all the major markets in the world they have to be capable of grasping the advancing electrification of the automobile? It's not an issue of politics.....it's an issue of achieving and maintaining a competitive edge.
And at last check, I don't recall seeing any legislation forcing anyone to buy an electric vehicle. Don't like? Don't buy!
How much longer do you figure an electric motor will last than a reciprocating piston engine (an antique design from the 1880s)?
When we took delivery of my wife's 2012 Chevrolet Volt back in March, I figured we'd be putting gas in it every 6 weeks or so.
Now, here we are 8-1/2 months and 8,930 miles later and I'm refueling it for the first time. Spent $24.50 for 6.6 gallons of premium (tank is 9.3 gallons, so there was still about 2.7 gallons left)
When I did my first calculations to see whether it made more sense to lease the Volt or go with our second or third choice vehicles (2012 Chevrolet Equinox or 2013 Chevrolet Malibu) I factored in the idea that the first 35 miles would be electrically driven, then I added in gas driven miles. What I did not factor in is that since most of my wife's trips are less than 20 miles, she would be returning home and plugging back in, so by the time she needed to make another trip, she would be back at or near a full charge.
As a result, she often went weeks without burning any gas. So our total energy cost for the car are $344.50 for 8+ months. That's $320 in electricity cost (we have a flat $40/mo deal with DTE Energy) + $24.50 in gas. That amounts to 3.86 cents per mile driven.
Can you run the air conditioner during the summer months while the Volt is on battery power?
Yes you can. The Volt is ALWAYS on electric power. The wheels are always turned by an electric motor. The only purpose the gas engine serves is to power the electric motor if/when you run out of battery power.
The AC never draws off of the gas engine as is the case in conventional cars. Running the AC full blast will reduce your battery range, but otherwise, nothing is different.
I don't believe that is true. The wheels are driven by both gas & electric power. You can run on all electric, gas drive & charge or gas & electric together for max horse power. It uses a planetary, ring & sun gear setup. It also may be possible that the electric motor spins the engine to start it.