Living on minimum wage, 50s to present

[Mr. H.]

You think that's difficult, try living on Tulsa time.

 

[Wiseacre]

Used to be that people didn't start a family until they were able to support one. Minimum wage isn't supposed to be a living wage, it's supposed to be a beginning wage while you acquire skills that make you worth more money in the job market. I remember those days, you had to live at home or buddy up with a roommate. I had to ride the bus for years cuz I couldn't afford a car. Wasn't easy, but I managed to survive.

 

[Noomi]

^not appropriate for a low skilled job. $10 an hour should be enough.

Why isn't $8/hr enough for a low skilled job?

This will be fun. You don't have the slightest idea why $8/hr is too little or 50/hr too much. It just sounds like a good number to you, so you throw it out there. This is why we say libs can't think or reason.

Let's add to the fun.
Do you think $10/hr is enough in Dubuque IA, with a low cost of living, as well as in Los Angeles, with a high cost of living?

Across the board, minimum wage should be set at the same amount. It can be up to the employer whether they pay more. But no one should be working full time and taking home three hundred bucks a week. That is fucking stupid.

 

[Sallow]

How about a minimum wage adjusted for type of work and cost of living for that area?

Or <gasp>, how about we let nature take its course and keep the idiots in g'mint butt out? Everything out of whack right now is directly as a result of g'mint meddling.

That never happens.

Soon as workers organize and start to bargain, owners call in the government.

 

[Sallow]

Used to be that people didn't start a family until they were able to support one. Minimum wage isn't supposed to be a living wage, it's supposed to be a beginning wage while you acquire skills that make you worth more money in the job market. I remember those days, you had to live at home or buddy up with a roommate. I had to ride the bus for years cuz I couldn't afford a car. Wasn't easy, but I managed to survive.

No that never happened.

And the problem with "starting wage" concept, is it seldom goes up on it's own.

 

[ReallyMeow]

Used to be that people didn't start a family until they were able to support one. Minimum wage isn't supposed to be a living wage, it's supposed to be a beginning wage while you acquire skills that make you worth more money in the job market. I remember those days, you had to live at home or buddy up with a roommate. I had to ride the bus for years cuz I couldn't afford a car. Wasn't easy, but I managed to survive.

Recession Big Factor as Birthrate Falls - WSJ.com

But once you have those skills, what good does it do them when the job market is awash with people who have those skills and are willing to work for cheap too? this flavor of conventional thinking only works in boom times, where labor is scant and competition kicks in.

Working, but still poor - The Week

Workers wanting the dignity of making ends meet is not a "problem" that needs to be "solved".

 

[The Rabbi]

Adding the extra 11 years will bump the number up significantly, roughly 60%

Yeah, so the notion of someone supporting his family on min wage is erroneous. The people earning it are people trying to get a leg up in the workforce. Even more interesting is that few people make min wage for very long. They get raises as soon as they've proven themselves.
So it would make sense to lower--eliminate even, the min wage to allow more people to start up the job ladder.

I don't subscribe to the notion that lowering/elminating the min. wage would be good for the economy. It would cause too much panic in the public. However, I'm not in favor of any raises to the min wage. Ever.

How would it cause panic? People startled at all the new available jobs?
Your positions are contradictory. If you never raise the min wage then effectively it is lowered due to inflation.

 

[The Rabbi]

Adding the extra 11 years will bump the number up significantly, roughly 60%

Yeah, so the notion of someone supporting his family on min wage is erroneous. The people earning it are people trying to get a leg up in the workforce. Even more interesting is that few people make min wage for very long. They get raises as soon as they've proven themselves.
So it would make sense to lower--eliminate even, the min wage to allow more people to start up the job ladder.

You ever had a minimum wage job?

Yes.
Next question.

 

[The Rabbi]

^not appropriate for a low skilled job. $10 an hour should be enough.

Why isn't $8/hr enough for a low skilled job?

This will be fun. You don't have the slightest idea why $8/hr is too little or 50/hr too much. It just sounds like a good number to you, so you throw it out there. This is why we say libs can't think or reason.

Let's add to the fun.
Do you think $10/hr is enough in Dubuque IA, with a low cost of living, as well as in Los Angeles, with a high cost of living?

Across the board, minimum wage should be set at the same amount. It can be up to the employer whether they pay more. But no one should be working full time and taking home three hundred bucks a week. That is fucking stupid.

Why? Do you think it's fair that someone in a high cost place makes the same as someone in a low cost state? And what is wrong with 300 bucks a week? It's better than 200 bucks a week. And it's lots better than no bucks a week, which is the real alternative.
Next question: would you work for $300/week if your alternative were no income at all?

 

[emptystep]

Both people I asked about working minimum wage answered. What I wanted to know is if this question was something you were evaluating from a logical perspective or from being in the shoes of the those in question.

I can't say off the top of my head but I would like to think that minimum wage legislation would have been so that families could survive off that amount rather than just making sure mall employees could afford designer shoes at the end of the week.

 

[ReallyMeow]

Yeah, so the notion of someone supporting his family on min wage is erroneous. The people earning it are people trying to get a leg up in the workforce. Even more interesting is that few people make min wage for very long. They get raises as soon as they've proven themselves.
So it would make sense to lower--eliminate even, the min wage to allow more people to start up the job ladder.

I don't subscribe to the notion that lowering/elminating the min. wage would be good for the economy. It would cause too much panic in the public. However, I'm not in favor of any raises to the min wage. Ever.

How would it cause panic? People startled at all the new available jobs? They'd actually have to work instead of sitting around scratching the dicks?
Your positions are contradictory. If you never raise the min wage then effectively it is lowered due to inflation.

Why would employers hire more people? They have enough, any money saved from reducing labor costs by rotating workers out willing to work for cheaper is something we call "profits".

 

[The Rabbi]

Both people I asked about working minimum wage answered. What I wanted to know is if this question was something you were evaluating from a logical perspective or from being in the shoes of the those in question.

I can't say off the top of my head but I would like to think that minimum wage legislation would have been so that families could survive off that amount rather than just making sure mall employees could afford designer shoes at the end of the week.

No. Min wage was a sop to the unions, who have been its most enthusiastic supporters. It raises wages so the differential between union wage and non union doesnt look so bad.

 

[Underhill]

The minimum wage is a pointless exercise if it doesn't keep pace with inflation.

It's really that simple.

It should be raised and pegged to the inflation rate so every year it automatically goes up. That's the way it should have been done when they first came out with it.

It wouldn't hurt most businesses and would seriously help the lower classes. I have a lot of friends who are working minimum wage or just above minimum wage. (one is working 3 of them) They are all on food stamps and partial assistance. Raising the minimum wage would not solve the problem of stagnant wages but it would certainly help.

And every dollar extra that people make means less money coming out of the government coffers in the form of assistance.

 

[emptystep]

Both people I asked about working minimum wage answered. What I wanted to know is if this question was something you were evaluating from a logical perspective or from being in the shoes of the those in question.

I can't say off the top of my head but I would like to think that minimum wage legislation would have been so that families could survive off that amount rather than just making sure mall employees could afford designer shoes at the end of the week.

No. Min wage was a sop to the unions, who have been its most enthusiastic supporters. It raises wages so the differential between union wage and non union doesnt look so bad.

You have any link or any reference or any source whatsoever that backs that up?

 

[The Rabbi]

Both people I asked about working minimum wage answered. What I wanted to know is if this question was something you were evaluating from a logical perspective or from being in the shoes of the those in question.

I can't say off the top of my head but I would like to think that minimum wage legislation would have been so that families could survive off that amount rather than just making sure mall employees could afford designer shoes at the end of the week.

No. Min wage was a sop to the unions, who have been its most enthusiastic supporters. It raises wages so the differential between union wage and non union doesnt look so bad.

You have any link or any reference or any source whatsoever that backs that up?

Union Members, Not Minimum-Wage Earners, Benefit When the MinimumWage Rises

Cue "biased right wing source" objection....

 

[asterism]

^not appropriate for a low skilled job. $10 an hour should be enough.

Why isn't $8/hr enough for a low skilled job?

This will be fun. You don't have the slightest idea why $8/hr is too little or 50/hr too much. It just sounds like a good number to you, so you throw it out there. This is why we say libs can't think or reason.

Let's add to the fun.
Do you think $10/hr is enough in Dubuque IA, with a low cost of living, as well as in Los Angeles, with a high cost of living?

Across the board, minimum wage should be set at the same amount. It can be up to the employer whether they pay more. But no one should be working full time and taking home three hundred bucks a week. That is fucking stupid.

You don't work do you?

 

[Wiseacre]

Used to be that people didn't start a family until they were able to support one. Minimum wage isn't supposed to be a living wage, it's supposed to be a beginning wage while you acquire skills that make you worth more money in the job market. I remember those days, you had to live at home or buddy up with a roommate. I had to ride the bus for years cuz I couldn't afford a car. Wasn't easy, but I managed to survive.

Recession Big Factor as Birthrate Falls - WSJ.com

But once you have those skills, what good does it do them when the job market is awash with people who have those skills and are willing to work for cheap too? this flavor of conventional thinking only works in boom times, where labor is scant and competition kicks in.

Working, but still poor - The Week

Workers wanting the dignity of making ends meet is not a "problem" that needs to be "solved".

News flash - significantly raising the minimum wage is not going to increase the number of jobs out there; in fact, employers will find ways to cut labor costs and jobs. Especially in bad times like now. And living within your means and not starting a family until you can afford to support one is the kind of thinking that works in any environemnt.

 

[Underhill]

Used to be that people didn't start a family until they were able to support one. Minimum wage isn't supposed to be a living wage, it's supposed to be a beginning wage while you acquire skills that make you worth more money in the job market. I remember those days, you had to live at home or buddy up with a roommate. I had to ride the bus for years cuz I couldn't afford a car. Wasn't easy, but I managed to survive.

Recession Big Factor as Birthrate Falls - WSJ.com

But once you have those skills, what good does it do them when the job market is awash with people who have those skills and are willing to work for cheap too? this flavor of conventional thinking only works in boom times, where labor is scant and competition kicks in.

Working, but still poor - The Week

Workers wanting the dignity of making ends meet is not a "problem" that needs to be "solved".

News flash - significantly raising the minimum wage is not going to increase the number of jobs out there; in fact, employers will find ways to cut labor costs and jobs. Especially in bad times like now. And living within your means and not starting a family until you can afford to support one is the kind of thinking that works in any environemnt.

Sure, but not everyone has a choice. I have several friends who had decent jobs and were providing for their families. Then the place closed down and now they are working whatever they can find.

And I would also argue that most places index pay with the minimum wage. So part of our stagnant wage growth comes directly from the stagnant minimum wage.

 

[CivFan]

Median wage is a better metric. If entry level wages are too high, there's less incentive to improve skills. This effect lowers the productivity of the nation as a whole. Canada's wage structure is more "egalitarian". One result is that a good programmer usually doubles earnings moving from Montreal to Boston. That transplant also gets to keep more of the increased pay, realistically tripling disposable income.

 

[Underhill]

Median wage is a better metric. If entry level wages are too high, there's less incentive to improve skills. This effect lowers the productivity of the nation as a whole. Canada's wage structure is more "egalitarian". One result is that a good programmer usually doubles earnings moving from Montreal to Boston. That transplant also gets to keep more of the increased pay, realistically tripling disposable income.

Sure, and it has nothing to do with the lack of technology or the rural nature of most of Canada. Half the country makes Montana look urban.