Lindsey Graham Defends the Constitution, citizens, and Courts in front of Erik Holder

[Procrustes Stretched]

And that has always been the point about subjecting what are essentially either "illegal combatants" (usually subjected to summary execution), or EPW (Enemy Prisoners of War) to "criminal" prosecution. If we are fighting a war, these people should never be prosecuted, unless we classify them as illegal combatants (which is what they look and act most like). In that case, we should do as we, and other nations, have always done with them. "Drum head" trials. With the agreement of three officers, they are executed immediately.

I'll give you libs a little insight from the people in the Pentagon (as this was being discussed this morning). If, since we are going to try these people, we have to Mirandize them upon capture and therefore cannot question them for immediate military intelligence, we have no benefit in capturing them at all. At least to the people who would do the capturing. And since it is usually a riskier proposition to capture than kill, guess what the orders of Company Commanders and Platoon Leaders to their men will be. "No need to try to capture anyone. Shoot to kill."

Perverse result to your criminalization of the war, huh?

"I'll give you libs a little insight from the people in the Pentagon (as this was being discussed this morning). " - I wouldn't put too much faith in that kind of talk.

We know. But you're a wackjob, so nobody pays too much attention to what you put faith in.

You are too much of a conseravtive technocrat, not much differenant than those nitwits, the progressive technocrats. It's people like you who are intent on destroying America from the inside out because you imagine you have a few answers. You do, and your answers are usually based on a pompous delusion of intelligence.

You sound teh alarm well. Problem is we are not in need of any alarm. You remind me of the psychics and astronomers who are always predicting things that mostly never happen and then when one does, they delude themselves into thinking they have true insight into something.

 

[Tech_Esq]

DEVNELL neg rep'd me!

Thanks loser!



I guess that's what happens when the other guy just has nothing, but disagrees with you.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

DEVNELL neg rep'd me!

Thanks loser!



I guess that's what happens when the other guy just has nothing, but disagrees with you.

poor baby. I thought your post was as useless as the dribble that spouts fromn your ass, mouth and brain...all one and the same.

 

[asaratis]

What are you afraid of? Fear not. Liberal democrats will save the day again. We'll clean up the mess the scardy cat cons got us into...........again.

You can't ignore legal precedent. This compounding a complex situation. The "fear" is restriction of interogating prisoners. You should have picked that up from the video. There must be some sense you can just change what the law means from moment to moment.

OMG! run. ruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuun! a typical neocon reply. When are you people going to stop being so scared of the great system we have in America? Why don't conservatives t-r-u-s-t America?

I trust America. I just don't trust liberals.

What are you afraid of? Fear not. Liberal democrats will save the day again. We'll clean up the mess the scardy cat cons got us into...........again.

hey! haven't you heard? your DUmbasses have tainted the jury pool.

SO again you admit to being scared and not trusting the American people to do the right thing in a serious situation like this one. We need a big daddy to protect us from ourselves?

That seems to be what the liberals think...only it's a big mother government to nurse on from cradle to grave and control everything we do. That's what the liberal, big-government idiots want.

Our AG is nuts. The circus has begun. The perps will not be punished as they should be. The American taxpayers will be forced to enrich the lives of lawyer after lawyer after stinkin' lawyer, each being paid to defend these terrorists in a properly run court designed to protect American citizens from each other and from the government.

Erik Holder should be fired...today.

 

[Tech_Esq]

"I'll give you libs a little insight from the people in the Pentagon (as this was being discussed this morning). " - I wouldn't put too much faith in that kind of talk.

We know. But you're a wackjob, so nobody pays too much attention to what you put faith in.

You are too much of a conseravtive technocrat, not much differenant than those nitwits, the progressive technocrats. It's people like you who are intent on destroying America from the inside out because you imagine you have a few answers. You do, and your answers are usually based on a pompous delusion of intelligence.

You sound teh alarm well. Problem is we are not in need of any alarm. You remind me of the psychics and astronomers who are always predicting things that mostly never happen and then when one does, they delude themselves into thinking they have true insight into something.

You sound like the unibomber. Incomprehensible gibberish.

There was no alarm in what I posted. It was simple cause and effect. People act rationally to stimulus. It would be stupid and naive to suppose otherwise. Just because the actions of a foolish Atty Gen would result in subsequent behavior that you don't like, doesn't mean I'm alarmist. It's just a rational reaction to not take chances when there is no benefit to taking them.

Why would a platoon leader place his men at excessive risk of death to get a prisoner when his unit could never get any benefit from doing so? He is charged with first - accomplishment of the mission and second - welfare of his men. Taking prisoners now (unless given that specific mission) does not help in the first place and drastically hinders the second.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

You can't ignore legal precedent. This compounding a complex situation. The "fear" is restriction of interogating prisoners. You should have picked that up from the video. There must be some sense you can just change what the law means from moment to moment.

OMG! run. ruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuun! a typical neocon reply. When are you people going to stop being so scared of the great system we have in America? Why don't conservatives t-r-u-s-t America?

I trust America. I just don't trust liberals.

hey! haven't you heard? your DUmbasses have tainted the jury pool.

SO again you admit to being scared and not trusting the American people to do the right thing in a serious situation like this one. We need a big daddy to protect us from ourselves?

That seems to be what the liberals think...only it's a big mother government to nurse on from cradle to grave and control everything we do. That's what the liberal, big-government idiots want.

Our AG is nuts. The circus has begun. The perps will not be punished as they should be. The American taxpayers will be forced to enrich the lives of lawyer after lawyer after stinkin' lawyer, each being paid to defend these terrorists in a properly run court designed to protect American citizens from each other and from the government.

Erik Holder should be fired...today.

there you go again...

Why do you even get out of bed? They are protecting the system people like you would destroy out of fear. Wake the fuck up you silly fool

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

The point being that in our criminal courts you have to have your miranda rights read to you at the time of detention and interrogation. If you did not have them read to you your case can be easily dismissed under the writ of habeas corpus.

Smooth move to try them in a constitional court system, giving them rights under the constitution, that were violated during their capture and subsequent detention and interrogation.

I dont think you are telling the right person to wake up, you should be telling holder

 

[Philobeado]

was nothing short of amazing.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: "If you're gonna prosecute anybody in civilian court, our law is clear that the moment custodial interrogation occurs, the defendant, the criminal defendant, is entitled to a lawyer and to be informed of their right to remain silent. The big problem I have is you're criminalizing the war, that if we caught bin Laden tomorrow, we have mixed theories and couldn't turn him over to the CIA, the FBI, military intelligence for an interrogation on the battlefield, because now you're saying he's subject to criminal court in the United States and you're confusing the people fighting this war."



Asking Holder what he'd do if Bin Laden were caught tomorrow and not read his Miranda rights was brilliant. The exchange does an EXCELLENT job of showing that this IDIOT hasn't really thought through treating KSM as an American citizen.

 

[asaratis]

OMG! run. ruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuun! a typical neocon reply. When are you people going to stop being so scared of the great system we have in America? Why don't conservatives t-r-u-s-t America?

I trust America. I just don't trust liberals.

SO again you admit to being scared and not trusting the American people to do the right thing in a serious situation like this one. We need a big daddy to protect us from ourselves?

That seems to be what the liberals think...only it's a big mother government to nurse on from cradle to grave and control everything we do. That's what the liberal, big-government idiots want.

Our AG is nuts. The circus has begun. The perps will not be punished as they should be. The American taxpayers will be forced to enrich the lives of lawyer after lawyer after stinkin' lawyer, each being paid to defend these terrorists in a properly run court designed to protect American citizens from each other and from the government.

Erik Holder should be fired...today.

there you go again...

Why do you even get out of bed? They are protecting the system people like you would destroy out of fear. Wake the fuck up you silly fool

I am not asleep...that is your biggest problem. I would destroy nothing. I just wouldn't use our gentlemanly court system to try enemy combatants. I would use a military tribunal without the fanfare associated with media coverage.

Were these assholes being tried in China, you'd hear nothing of it or them for the rest of your life.

 

[NYcarbineer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTmLKUT817Y&feature=related


Good for you Graham, i dont always like what you do but this time you nailed it dead on


I'm surprised Holder and Obama have decided to bring the enemy combatants to the united states without knowing the answers to such questions as Lindsey Graham presented to him.

Its a pretty sad state when we have incompetent fools like this running our justice department.

Watch and Listen.

short version

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sG7lm8Sfbo4

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed wasn't captured on the battlefield. He was arrested in Pakistan.

 

[Tech_Esq]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTmLKUT817Y&feature=related


Good for you Graham, i dont always like what you do but this time you nailed it dead on


I'm surprised Holder and Obama have decided to bring the enemy combatants to the united states without knowing the answers to such questions as Lindsey Graham presented to him.

Its a pretty sad state when we have incompetent fools like this running our justice department.

Watch and Listen.

short version

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sG7lm8Sfbo4

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed wasn't captured on the battlefield. He was arrested in Pakistan.

Pakistan isn't a battlefield? Really? In what sense?

The Paki army is fully engaged. Everybody agrees that AQ is in Pakistan not Afghanistan. We've been killing AQ and Taliban leadership in Pakistan for years with drones. How is Pakistan not a battlefield? Because we captured KSM with a special ops team not in a shoot out on a remote mountain somewhere? Happens all the time in a real war. You should see what happened in WW II.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTmLKUT817Y&feature=related


Good for you Graham, i dont always like what you do but this time you nailed it dead on


I'm surprised Holder and Obama have decided to bring the enemy combatants to the united states without knowing the answers to such questions as Lindsey Graham presented to him.

Its a pretty sad state when we have incompetent fools like this running our justice department.

Watch and Listen.

short version

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sG7lm8Sfbo4

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed wasn't captured on the battlefield. He was arrested in Pakistan.

And was he read his miranda rights before we put him in gitmo and interrogated him? Does the fact that we didn't mean his case must be dismissed?

If it doesnt mean his case must be dismissed does that mean this new precedent, the new precedent being that you can be detained and interrogated without miranda rights and still face trial after, will stand? If it does that means it applies to all of us, which I find disturbing.

 

[Tech_Esq]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTmLKUT817Y&feature=related


Good for you Graham, i dont always like what you do but this time you nailed it dead on


I'm surprised Holder and Obama have decided to bring the enemy combatants to the united states without knowing the answers to such questions as Lindsey Graham presented to him.

Its a pretty sad state when we have incompetent fools like this running our justice department.

Watch and Listen.

short version

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sG7lm8Sfbo4

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed wasn't captured on the battlefield. He was arrested in Pakistan.

And was he read his miranda rights before we put him in gitmo and interrogated him? Does the fact that we didn't mean his case must be dismissed?

If it doesnt mean his case must be dismissed does that mean this new precedent, the new precedent being that you can be detained and interrogated without miranda rights and still face trial after, will stand? If it does that means it applies to all of us, which I find disturbing.

Maybe that was CHANGE Obama was talking about. He was kinda vague about what that was after all.

Maybe this is a designed play to throw out Miranda. I wonder what the press would be saying if the Attorney General was still Alberto Gonzales and this was happening? I bet they'd have a lot more questions than they do now.

 

[Oddball]

Maybe that was CHANGE Obama was talking about. He was kinda vague about what that was after all.

Maybe this is a designed play to throw out Miranda. I wonder what the press would be saying if the Attorney General was still Alberto Gonzales and this was happening? I bet they'd have a lot more questions than they do now.

Or worse...Ashcroft.

 

[Mike458877]

Holder was exposed for the light weight he is!

He is wrong, his boss Obama is wrong, dead wrong!

He went to the Hill and got his ass kicked ........and I don't think the reality of that even registered with the idiot.

This gang of political radicals honestly feel that they can do what they wish, in spite of American opinion.

So be it, let them, they are digging their own hole!

Mike

 

[Zoom-boing]

Why don't they just shoot the bad guys and save everyone the cost and trouble of this farce.

 

[jillian]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTmLKUT817Y&feature=related


Good for you Graham, i dont always like what you do but this time you nailed it dead on


I'm surprised Holder and Obama have decided to bring the enemy combatants to the united states without knowing the answers to such questions as Lindsey Graham presented to him.

Its a pretty sad state when we have incompetent fools like this running our justice department.

Watch and Listen.

short version

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sG7lm8Sfbo4

I can't get youtube at work. I don't mind Lindsey Graham. He's not an insane wingnut and he actually thinks... although i don't generally agree with him.

as for the "enemy combatant" thing... they're only that because the bush administration said they are. no one is bound by that determination. and if the majority of us thought bush was right about things, mccain would have been elected, no?

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTmLKUT817Y&feature=related


Good for you Graham, i dont always like what you do but this time you nailed it dead on


I'm surprised Holder and Obama have decided to bring the enemy combatants to the united states without knowing the answers to such questions as Lindsey Graham presented to him.

Its a pretty sad state when we have incompetent fools like this running our justice department.

Watch and Listen.

short version

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sG7lm8Sfbo4

I can't get youtube at work. I don't mind Lindsey Graham. He's not an insane wingnut and he actually thinks... although i don't generally agree with him.

as for the "enemy combatant" thing... they're only that because the bush administration said they are. no one is bound by that determination. and if the majority of us thought bush was right about things, mccain would have been elected, no?

i'll see if i can find you a transcript. give me 5 min

 

[Intense]

Graham is still a Jackass and needs to relocate. I'm recommending witness protection. Someplace where He does not have access to a microphone.

 

[Tech_Esq]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTmLKUT817Y&feature=related


Good for you Graham, i dont always like what you do but this time you nailed it dead on


I'm surprised Holder and Obama have decided to bring the enemy combatants to the united states without knowing the answers to such questions as Lindsey Graham presented to him.

Its a pretty sad state when we have incompetent fools like this running our justice department.

Watch and Listen.

short version

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sG7lm8Sfbo4

I can't get youtube at work. I don't mind Lindsey Graham. He's not an insane wingnut and he actually thinks... although i don't generally agree with him.

as for the "enemy combatant" thing... they're only that because the bush administration said they are. no one is bound by that determination. and if the majority of us thought bush was right about things, mccain would have been elected, no?

So what would you classify them as if you could be the decider?