Liberty Dollar Creators Arrested

[Kevin_Kennedy]

And again for the stupid and the slow. In the United States ONLY the Federal Government can print MONEY.

I'm not sure who you're referring to with the stupid and slow comment.

At any rate, if private parties want to accept gold and silver as payment, rather than continuously depreciating green pieces of paper, then there's nothing wrong with that.

Well ya EXCEPT Liberty PRINTED paper money. Further they advertised as if their coins and dollars were legal script.

Paper money backed by gold and silver that people were free to refuse to have any part in if they so chose.

"3. Although prudence would seem to indicate that people would refuse a currency they've never seen, this is simply not the case. After thousands of transactions, the Liberty Dollar is readily accepted most of the time. It is meant to be circulated voluntarily as barter, accumulated and collected."

"4. Simply offer The Liberty Dollar with the confidence that it will be accepted. After all, why wouldn't it? When you offer the American Express Card, if it is not accepted, they tell you. Likewise, if the store does not accept Liberty Dollars, the cashier will tell you and you can simply pay another way."

How to Use the Liberty Dollar

Sounds like they're simply promoting it as an alternate form of payment, and people were free to accept or refuse it.

 

[JW Frogen]

All currency, indeed all value is a psychological idea. What is gold worth, that shiny thick lump?

What the polity, the majority that dumb mass decides.

The mass decides the worth of anything, and hence advertising was born, right after democracy.

And before you mistake me, I do not condemn, I commend.

Because I am dumber than you too.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I'm not sure who you're referring to with the stupid and slow comment.

At any rate, if private parties want to accept gold and silver as payment, rather than continuously depreciating green pieces of paper, then there's nothing wrong with that.

Well ya EXCEPT Liberty PRINTED paper money. Further they advertised as if their coins and dollars were legal script.

Paper money backed by gold and silver that people were free to refuse to have any part in if they so chose.

"3. Although prudence would seem to indicate that people would refuse a currency they've never seen, this is simply not the case. After thousands of transactions, the Liberty Dollar is readily accepted most of the time. It is meant to be circulated voluntarily as barter, accumulated and collected."

"4. Simply offer The Liberty Dollar with the confidence that it will be accepted. After all, why wouldn't it? When you offer the American Express Card, if it is not accepted, they tell you. Likewise, if the store does not accept Liberty Dollars, the cashier will tell you and you can simply pay another way."

How to Use the Liberty Dollar

Sounds like they're simply promoting it as an alternate form of payment, and people were free to accept or refuse it.

And thus why it was illegal. ONLY the US can coin and print MONEY. Once again you can not compare it to coupons or credit cards as NEITHER are pretending to be MONEY. They are in fact redeemed to the company or store that accepts them BY US MONEY.

 

[editec]

And again for the stupid and the slow. In the United States ONLY the Federal Government can print MONEY.

I'm not sure who you're referring to with the stupid and slow comment.

At any rate, if private parties want to accept gold and silver as payment, rather than continuously depreciating green pieces of paper, then there's nothing wrong with that.

Well ya EXCEPT Liberty PRINTED paper money. Further they advertised as if their coins and dollars were legal script.

Yes, that's right.

You obviously read their adverstisements.

That's exactly what they were doing.

Rather stupid of them to do that, I think. Which makes me wonder why they did it. Were they planning on issuing more script than they had gold or silver to back up? We cannot know, really.

Had they not done so, then I suspect they'd have stayed in business.

But for some unknown reason, they denominated their script in dollar amounts.

Had they said that their scrip was a bearer bond which could have been traded for an amount of gold or silver, I'm not sure they'd have been doing anything that the treasury could have complained about.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

What is truly hilarious about the whole thing is if they were selling you a dollar bill for a dollar then there is no way they were putting the entire dollar in as back up for YOUR NEW MONEY. You see, they are a business and intend to make a profit.

All though as I understand it they were printing double the value on coins for the amount of metal in them.

 

[editec]

What is truly hilarious about the whole thing is if they were selling you a dollar bill for a dollar then there is no way they were putting the entire dollar in as back up for YOUR NEW MONEY. You see, they are a business and intend to make a profit.

All though as I understand it they were printing double the value on coins for the amount of metal in them.

Yeah that would make sense, of course.

That would be the not untypical scam which played out over and over again back when banks and companies (even individuals) could issue their own money.

Issue more script than you have metal to back it up, and hope that there's no run on your specie as people attempt to convert your script to gold or silver.

I'm still trying to figure out, however, why they were dumb enough to nominate their script in dollar amounts.

Seems to me that such as move was bound to bring the treasury in to investigate their company.

But if they'd NOT done that, if they'd merely issued bearer bonds which promised the holder the right to exchange those bonds for some specific amount of gold or silver, that could not have been construed as issuing money as such.

So, really, I suspect we haven't yet gotten enough information about this embroglio to really understand the whole story, and what exactly their game was, either.

 

[Oddball]

And again for the stupid and the slow. In the United States ONLY the Federal Government can print MONEY.

This is wrong on so many fronts that it's astounding.

First of all, Article 1, Section 8:

The Congress shall have power to....
To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;

To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States

Coining is a specific process that applies to metals, not ink and paper. Currency is merely a security instrument for that coinage.

Next, Article 1, Section 10:

No state shall...make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts...

Again, this clearly states that the only federal power here is to regulate the value of money viz. its definition as specie, not a worthless fiat paper currency.By extension, any and all currencies issued are required to be redeemable for coin.

On top of all that, the Federal Reserve is a private banking cartel, given exclusive monopoly over fiat currency creation via legal tender laws, not any agency of the federal gubmint.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

And again for the stupid and the slow. In the United States ONLY the Federal Government can print MONEY.

This is wrong on so many fronts that it's astounding.

First of all, Article 1, Section 8:

The Congress shall have power to....
To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;

To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States

Coining is a specific process that applies to metals, not ink and paper. Currency is merely a security instrument for that coinage.

Next, Article 1, Section 10:

No state shall...make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts...

Again, this clearly states that the only federal power here is to regulate the value of money viz. its definition as specie, not a worthless fiat paper currency.By extension, any and all currencies issued are required to be redeemable for coin.

On top of all that, the Federal Reserve is a private banking cartel, given exclusive monopoly over fiat currency creation via legal tender laws, not any agency of the federal gubmint.

And what did Liberty do? Can you say it with me? THEY PRINTED PAPER MONEY. They told people to use it as legal tender. They did not get in trouble for the coins dumb ass. They also CALLED their funny money DOLLARS. Read the damn advertisement.

As for the federal reserve you may want to reread the power Congress was granted by the Constitution. It INCLUDES the right and ability to make, pass and enforce any law they need to carry out the specific powers granted to them. THAT would INCLUDE the FEDERAL RESERVE.

 

[Oddball]

The currency was and still is redeemable for the coins created by von Nothaus, in compliance with Article 1, Section 10..

His business violates no law or constitutional provision.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The currency was and still is redeemable for the coins created by von Nothaus, in compliance with Article 1, Section 10..

His business violates no law or constitutional provision.

Sorry DUDE, but a Court will decide that. Not you.

 

[Oddball]

As for the federal reserve you may want to reread the power Congress was granted by the Constitution. It INCLUDES the right and ability to make, pass and enforce any law they need to carry out the specific powers granted to them. THAT would INCLUDE the FEDERAL RESERVE.

Spoken like a dyed-in-the-wool liberal.

To this point, Article 1. Section 8 has not been repealed. Therefore, no power is expressed or implied for the feds to print up a worthless fiat currency.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

as for the federal reserve you may want to reread the power congress was granted by the constitution. It includes the right and ability to make, pass and enforce any law they need to carry out the specific powers granted to them. That would include the federal reserve.

spoken like a dyed-in-the-wool liberal.

To this point, article 1. Section 8 has not been repealed. Therefore, no power is expressed or implied for the feds to print up a worthless fiat currency.

wrong as usual.

 

[Oddball]

Oooooo....Such a scathing fact-packed rebuttal!!

Are you related to Chris??

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Here we go the entire passage.

Section 10. No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation; grant letters of marque and reprisal; coin money; emit bills of credit; make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts; pass any bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law impairing the obligation of contracts, or grant any title of nobility.

LII: Constitution


Provide for us the passage that allows States to make money of ANY KIND.

As for your claim the Government has no power to make paper money, I guess you better take that up with Washington and every Administration after his, as we have pretty much always had paper money. Just before the Civil War most people preferred metal coins.

The Term COIN money does not limit the Government to JUST metal Coins. Never has and never has been thought to except by dead enders like you.

 

[Oddball]

Wow....Even redefining the meanings of words to suit the ethos of the situation...just like a liberal.

 

[Ame®icano]

Paper liberty dollars are redeemable for the gold and silver liberty coins.

Are federal reserve notes redeemable for anything?

 

[editec]

OH I think one can try to create one's own currency.

What we cannot do is imply that that currency is in any way backed up by the government.

And, if you read the advertisments for Liberty the language they used sort of implied that it was on the same par (in terms of being legitimate currency of the land) as Federal script.

I STILL don't understand why they made that mistake unless their plan was to print up script without any real backing.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Paper liberty dollars are redeemable for the gold and silver liberty coins.

Are federal reserve notes redeemable for anything?

Does not matter, BY the CONSTITUTION only the Congress can authorize the making, distributing and worth of our money. Liberty went to far when they printed paper money and labeled it AS SUCH. Further their advertisement claims it IS legal Tender.

 

[Oddball]

Does not matter, BY the CONSTITUTION only the Congress can authorize the making, distributing and worth of our money. Liberty went to far when they printed paper money and labeled it AS SUCH. Further their advertisement claims it IS legal Tender.

Wrong....AGAIN.

The only enumerated role for the feds is to see to it that no currency that isn't redeemable for specie is created, IN ANY CASE, per Article 1 Section 10.

The Liberty Dollars and the currency notes redeemable for them are a private currency that are no more illegal than are store coupons in your Sunday paper.

 

[editec]

Does not matter, BY the CONSTITUTION only the Congress can authorize the making, distributing and worth of our money. Liberty went to far when they printed paper money and labeled it AS SUCH. Further their advertisement claims it IS legal Tender.

Wrong....AGAIN.

The only enumerated role for the feds is to see to it that no currency that isn't redeemable for specie is created, IN ANY CASE, per Article 1 Section 10.

The Liberty Dollars and the currency notes redeemable for them are a private currency that are no more illegal than are store coupons in your Sunday paper.

UNLESS, the issues of said currency claim or otherwise imply that their curency is legal tender...

...which they do in their advertisments.