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First I went back through the thread. You deserve credit for the OP of a lively discussion; too bad you have not been participating in it much. Since post #18, I have counted one irrelevant story about Chou En Lai, a side track into the subject of Native American history, and 10 posts that were completely unresponsive to anything else posted. The purpose of the ten seems to be to reveal that you don't post content, but prefer personal attacks and invective. Of course this did not keep you from chastising others for breaches of civility.
At least they formed a Republic that could abolish slavery without a civil war.
What kind of moron would miss the deaths of 600,000?
Only a Liberal.
No doubt the 7 million Ukrainian deaths also engendered a shrug from you.
Did Mao's 75 million get your attention?
This is completely off topic to the subject you introduced in the OP and is an obvious red herring. If that reference confuses you' look it up. The deaths of bazillions seems to escape "conservative" pea-brains (if you have any idea of what I am referring to, it is a miracle). The previous statement is as devoid of content as your post; consisting only of a an ad hominem and an off-topic reference.
The disgusting part is your total inability to abide by the rules you make up for others to follow. I must either conclude you have no idea what civility is in public discourse, in which case you are ignorant; or that you know and do not care, which makes you a troll and a bully. My vote, in the face of logical inconsistency; is both!
I wear it with pride.
Now, how's this prediction: you will find it impossible not to participate in at least some of the threads that I present.
First I went back through the thread. You deserve credit for the OP of a lively discussion; too bad you have not been participating in it much. Since post #18, I have counted one irrelevant story about Chou En Lai, a side track into the subject of Native American history, and 10 posts that were completely unresponsive to anything else posted. The purpose of the ten seems to be to reveal that you don't post content, but prefer personal attacks and invective. Of course this did not keep you from chastising others for breaches of civility.
What kind of moron would miss the deaths of 600,000?
Only a Liberal.
No doubt the 7 million Ukrainian deaths also engendered a shrug from you.
Did Mao's 75 million get your attention?
This is completely off topic to the subject you introduced in the OP and is an obvious red herring. If that reference confuses you' look it up. The deaths of bazillions seems to escape "conservative" pea-brains (if you have any idea of what I am referring to, it is a miracle). The previous statement is as devoid of content as your post; consisting only of a an ad hominem and an off-topic reference.
The disgusting part is your total inability to abide by the rules you make up for others to follow. I must either conclude you have no idea what civility is in public discourse, in which case you are ignorant; or that you know and do not care, which makes you a troll and a bully. My vote, in the face of logical inconsistency; is both!
She doesn't debate the substance and the details of her topics because that would require her to go off script, so to speak, and actually construct an argument. Her cut and pastes do not come with instructions for follow-up,
so of course once the initial volley is spent, she's out of ammo.
I wear it with pride.
Now, how's this prediction: you will find it impossible not to participate in at least some of the threads that I present.
More bluster and drivel devoid of content; not worth responding to. I participate in threads where posters make observations worthy of comment. You typically abandon a discussion the second it becomes worth reading.
I appreciate your honesty:
You, an America-hating dunce...
I.....something completely different.
That's what you meant, isn't it?
Well no.
I love my Country..warts and all.
You?
Have a made up fairy land that you seem to like.
Do we agree that the 'genocide' wart is untrue and a slander?
You don't have to answer.....
So a revolution that squashed a monarchy and brought in a Democratic Republic..is bad?
Do tell.
At least they formed a Republic that could abolish slavery without a civil war.
What kind of moron would miss the deaths of 600,000?
Only a Liberal.
No doubt the 7 million Ukrainian deaths also engendered a shrug from you.
Did Mao's 75 million get your attention?
Well no.
I love my Country..warts and all.
You?
Have a made up fairy land that you seem to like.
Do we agree that the 'genocide' wart is untrue and a slander?
You don't have to answer.....
Absolutely not.
And yeah..I did.
You can't handle the truth, however.
6. The reason our revolution was so different from the violent, homicidal chaos of the French version was the dominant American culture was Anglo-Saxon and Christian.
52 of the 56 signers of the declaration and 50 to 52 of the 55 signers of the Constitution were orthodox Trinitarian Christians. David Limbaugh
Today, July 14th, is the anniversary of Bastille Day
1. " The murdering mobs that attacked the nearly empty Bastille (at the time of the siege there were only seven non-political prisoners) believed their actions were for a better France,... French society underwent an epic transformation as feudal, aristocratic and religious privileges evaporated under a sustained assault from left-wing political groups and the masses on the streets.
Ordered by the king [Louis XVI] to surrender, more than 600 Swiss guards were savagely murdered. The mobs ripped them to shreds and mutilated their corpses. Women, lost to all sense of shame, said one surviving witness, were committing the most indecent mutilations on the dead bodies from which they tore pieces of flesh and carried them off in triumph. Children played kickball with the guards heads. Every living thing in the Tuileries [royal palace in Paris] was butchered or thrown from the windows by the hooligans. Women were raped before being hacked to death."
Coulter, "Demonic."
2.It is more than passing interesting that liberals, whose history is that of the French Revolution, attempt to hide this by trying to portray the American Revolution as their inception.
Lets see, the American Revolution had the Minutemen, the ride of Paul Revere, the Continental Congress, the Declaration of Independence and the Liberty Bell.
a. The French Revolution is identified by the Great Fear, the storming of the Bastille, the food riots, the march on Versailles, the Day of the Daggers, the de-Christianization campaign, the September Massacres, the beheading of Louis XVI, the beheading of Marie Antoinette, the Reign of Terror, then the guillotining of one revolutionary after another, until Robespierre got the national razor. That is, not including various lynchings, assassinations, insurrections .this was the four-year period known as the French Revolution.
b. Yes, just as classical liberals, or what would be called conservatives today, are heir to the American Revolution, liberals can trace their provenance to Rousseau, and St. Just!
3. For Rousseau, the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen proclaimed that the general will of the people had to be correct, because it was the general will, the true interest of what everyone wants whether they realize it or not, and he determined the general will, so, anyone who deviated from same deserved no rights!
a. Although he had written a constitution, it became malleable for Robespierre: How did Robespierre actually interpret these principles? He said: [W]e must exterminate all our enemies with the law in our hands; the Declaration of Rights offers no safeguard to conspirators; the suspicions of enlightened patriotism might offer a better guide than formal rules of evidence. Notice the echo in the actions of the early Progressives who suggested that the US Constitution may be shed, like a garment. http://www.nationalaffairs.com/docl...hvsthefrenchenlightmentgertrudehimmelfarb.pdf
Could there be a better description of the collective totalitarian statist?
4. Of course, a minor difference that the astute might notice is that Americas documents did win freedom and individual rights, and Frances Declaration of the Rights of Man and the Citizen led to bestial savagery, followed by Napoleons dictatorship, followed by another monarchy, and finally something resembling an actual republic some 80 years later.
5. And just once more, the difference between the two revolution, mirroring the difference between liberals and conservatives?
With the Jacobins in control, the de-Christianization campaign kicked into high gear. Inspired by Rousseaus idea of the religion civile, the revolution sought to completely destroy Christianity and replace it with a religion of the state. To honor reason and fulfill the promise of the Declaration of the Rights of Man and the Citizen that no one may be questioned about his opinions, including his religious views,
Except that Catholic priests were forced to stand before the revolutionary clubs and take oaths to Frances new humanocentric religion, the Cult of Reason .
Revolutionaries smashed church art and statues.
6. The reason our revolution was so different from the violent, homicidal chaos of the French version was the dominant American culture was Anglo-Saxon and Christian.
52 of the 56 signers of the declaration and 50 to 52 of the 55 signers of the Constitution were orthodox Trinitarian Christians. David Limbaugh
Believers in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, or, as they would be known today, an extremist Fundementalist hate group.
From Coulters best seller, Demonic .
So, to those of the Liberal persuasion, parry like its 1789!
Happy anniversary!!!
Today, July 14th, is the anniversary of Bastille Day
1. " The murdering mobs that attacked the nearly empty Bastille (at the time of the siege there were only seven non-political prisoners) believed their actions were for a better France,... French society underwent an epic transformation as feudal, aristocratic and religious privileges evaporated under a sustained assault from left-wing political groups and the masses on the streets.
Ordered by the king [Louis XVI] to surrender, more than 600 Swiss guards were savagely murdered. The mobs ripped them to shreds and mutilated their corpses. Women, lost to all sense of shame, said one surviving witness, were committing the most indecent mutilations on the dead bodies from which they tore pieces of flesh and carried them off in triumph. Children played kickball with the guards heads. Every living thing in the Tuileries [royal palace in Paris] was butchered or thrown from the windows by the hooligans. Women were raped before being hacked to death."
Coulter, "Demonic."
2.It is more than passing interesting that liberals, whose history is that of the French Revolution, attempt to hide this by trying to portray the American Revolution as their inception.
Lets see, the American Revolution had the Minutemen, the ride of Paul Revere, the Continental Congress, the Declaration of Independence and the Liberty Bell.
a. The French Revolution is identified by the Great Fear, the storming of the Bastille, the food riots, the march on Versailles, the Day of the Daggers, the de-Christianization campaign, the September Massacres, the beheading of Louis XVI, the beheading of Marie Antoinette, the Reign of Terror, then the guillotining of one revolutionary after another, until Robespierre got the national razor. That is, not including various lynchings, assassinations, insurrections .this was the four-year period known as the French Revolution.
b. Yes, just as classical liberals, or what would be called conservatives today, are heir to the American Revolution, liberals can trace their provenance to Rousseau, and St. Just!
3. For Rousseau, the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen proclaimed that the general will of the people had to be correct, because it was the general will, the true interest of what everyone wants whether they realize it or not, and he determined the general will, so, anyone who deviated from same deserved no rights!
a. Although he had written a constitution, it became malleable for Robespierre: How did Robespierre actually interpret these principles? He said: [W]e must exterminate all our enemies with the law in our hands; the Declaration of Rights offers no safeguard to conspirators; the suspicions of enlightened patriotism might offer a better guide than formal rules of evidence. Notice the echo in the actions of the early Progressives who suggested that the US Constitution may be shed, like a garment. http://www.nationalaffairs.com/docl...hvsthefrenchenlightmentgertrudehimmelfarb.pdf
Could there be a better description of the collective totalitarian statist?
4. Of course, a minor difference that the astute might notice is that Americas documents did win freedom and individual rights, and Frances Declaration of the Rights of Man and the Citizen led to bestial savagery, followed by Napoleons dictatorship, followed by another monarchy, and finally something resembling an actual republic some 80 years later.
5. And just once more, the difference between the two revolution, mirroring the difference between liberals and conservatives?
With the Jacobins in control, the de-Christianization campaign kicked into high gear. Inspired by Rousseaus idea of the religion civile, the revolution sought to completely destroy Christianity and replace it with a religion of the state. To honor reason and fulfill the promise of the Declaration of the Rights of Man and the Citizen that no one may be questioned about his opinions, including his religious views,
Except that Catholic priests were forced to stand before the revolutionary clubs and take oaths to Frances new humanocentric religion, the Cult of Reason .
Revolutionaries smashed church art and statues.
6. The reason our revolution was so different from the violent, homicidal chaos of the French version was the dominant American culture was Anglo-Saxon and Christian.
52 of the 56 signers of the declaration and 50 to 52 of the 55 signers of the Constitution were orthodox Trinitarian Christians. David Limbaugh
Believers in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, or, as they would be known today, an extremist Fundementalist hate group.
From Coulters best seller, Demonic .
So, to those of the Liberal persuasion, parry like its 1789!
Happy anniversary!!!
You have a most curious view of history. What link you imagine between the disorder that followed the French Revolution, and what Americans call "liberals" today baffles the brain. Although I just noticed the name referrenced on your last line, and that explains a lot. Coulter is one of a group that produces a sort of mean spirited comic books, an entertainment for rednecks, that often passes for history or political science in the US today.
As a famous playwright (and vastly deeper thinker that Coulter) once put it: Cry havoc! And let slip the dogs of war. Meaning, when violence is unleashed, it tends to build on itself, and can produce reprehensible effects before it is done. Americans are as equally experienced in this as the French.
The US revolution was not without some shamefully violent and unjust aspects. Those that opposed the revolution (around one third of the population) suffered assualt, seizure of property, discrimination, expulsion from the country, and in some cases death in the hands of (no doubt christian) zealots. When these folks were done with, Americans turned their attentions to what is now the mid-west, an area Britain had reserved for aboriginals. Indeed, this was one of the main reasons for the revolution: the colonists wanted that land, the crown wasn't going to give it to them, and so they were going to take it- and kill or disperse those resisting. And they did. You could safely transfer some of your lurid descriptions from Paris to the Ohio Valley, and wouldn't be out of place.
Funny that the Republicans in America at the time thought that both revolutions were part of the same struggle:
"The tone of your letters had for some time given me pain, on account of the extreme warmth with which they censured the proceedings of the Jacobins of France. I considered that sect as the same with the Republican patriots... In the struggle which was necessary, many guilty persons fell without the forms of trial, and with them some innocent. These I deplore as much as any body, & shall deplore some of them to the day of my death. But I deplore them as I should have done had they fallen in battle. It was necessary to use the arm of the people, a machine not quite so blind as balls and bombs, but blind to a certain degree... My own affections have been deeply wounded by some of the martyrs to this cause, but rather than it should have failed, I would have seen half the earth desolated."
-- Thomas Jefferson; from letter to William Short (January 3, 1793)
"I have a strong attachment for the French Republic, more especially because they have founded their Constitution on principles similar to our own, and upon which alone, I think, free and lawful governments must be founded."
-- Samuel Adams; from letter to George Clinton (December 24th, 1793)
"In vain had reason, the hand-maid of pure religion, long attempted to convince men of the reciprocal duties, which equality and fraternity impose. Still there would arise some one,
of proud ambitious heart, who, not content
with fair equality, fraternal state,
would arrogate dominion undeserved
over his brethren, and quite dispossess
concord and law of nature from the earth.
-- Bishop James Madison; from Sermon for National Day of Thanksgiving; (February 19, 1795)
"The appeal to the rights of man, which had been made in the U S. was taken up by France, first of the European nations. From her the spirit has spread over those of the South. The tyrants of the North have allied indeed against it, but it is irresistible. Their opposition will only multiply it's millions of human victims; their own satellites will catch it, and the condition of man thro' the civilized world will be finally and greatly ameliorated."
-- Thomas Jefferson; from his Autobiography (1821)
Funny that the Republicans in America at the time thought that both revolutions were part of the same struggle:
"The tone of your letters had for some time given me pain, on account of the extreme warmth with which they censured the proceedings of the Jacobins of France. I considered that sect as the same with the Republican patriots... In the struggle which was necessary, many guilty persons fell without the forms of trial, and with them some innocent. These I deplore as much as any body, & shall deplore some of them to the day of my death. But I deplore them as I should have done had they fallen in battle. It was necessary to use the arm of the people, a machine not quite so blind as balls and bombs, but blind to a certain degree... My own affections have been deeply wounded by some of the martyrs to this cause, but rather than it should have failed, I would have seen half the earth desolated."
-- Thomas Jefferson; from letter to William Short (January 3, 1793)
"I have a strong attachment for the French Republic, more especially because they have founded their Constitution on principles similar to our own, and upon which alone, I think, free and lawful governments must be founded."
-- Samuel Adams; from letter to George Clinton (December 24th, 1793)
"In vain had reason, the hand-maid of pure religion, long attempted to convince men of the reciprocal duties, which equality and fraternity impose. Still there would arise some one,
of proud ambitious heart, who, not content
with fair equality, fraternal state,
would arrogate dominion undeserved
over his brethren, and quite dispossess
concord and law of nature from the earth.
-- Bishop James Madison; from Sermon for National Day of Thanksgiving; (February 19, 1795)
"The appeal to the rights of man, which had been made in the U S. was taken up by France, first of the European nations. From her the spirit has spread over those of the South. The tyrants of the North have allied indeed against it, but it is irresistible. Their opposition will only multiply it's millions of human victims; their own satellites will catch it, and the condition of man thro' the civilized world will be finally and greatly ameliorated."
-- Thomas Jefferson; from his Autobiography (1821)
"Funny that the Republicans in America at the time...." (January 3, 1793)(December 24th, 1793)(February 19, 1795) (1821)
WHO???
WHEN????
You really shouldn't drink on an empty head.
In early 1854, the first meeting of what became the Republican Party. took place in Ripon, Wisconsin. On June 6, 1854 near Jackson, Michigan, about 10,000 people turned out for a mass meeting. This led to the first organizing convention in Pittsburgh on February 22, 1856 . The Party's first nominating convention was in in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, on June 17, 1856.
When did the Republican party begin
Funny that the Republicans in America at the time thought that both revolutions were part of the same struggle:
"The tone of your letters had for some time given me pain, on account of the extreme warmth with which they censured the proceedings of the Jacobins of France. I considered that sect as the same with the Republican patriots... In the struggle which was necessary, many guilty persons fell without the forms of trial, and with them some innocent. These I deplore as much as any body, & shall deplore some of them to the day of my death. But I deplore them as I should have done had they fallen in battle. It was necessary to use the arm of the people, a machine not quite so blind as balls and bombs, but blind to a certain degree... My own affections have been deeply wounded by some of the martyrs to this cause, but rather than it should have failed, I would have seen half the earth desolated."
-- Thomas Jefferson; from letter to William Short (January 3, 1793)
"I have a strong attachment for the French Republic, more especially because they have founded their Constitution on principles similar to our own, and upon which alone, I think, free and lawful governments must be founded."
-- Samuel Adams; from letter to George Clinton (December 24th, 1793)
"In vain had reason, the hand-maid of pure religion, long attempted to convince men of the reciprocal duties, which equality and fraternity impose. Still there would arise some one,
of proud ambitious heart, who, not content
with fair equality, fraternal state,
would arrogate dominion undeserved
over his brethren, and quite dispossess
concord and law of nature from the earth.
-- Bishop James Madison; from Sermon for National Day of Thanksgiving; (February 19, 1795)
"The appeal to the rights of man, which had been made in the U S. was taken up by France, first of the European nations. From her the spirit has spread over those of the South. The tyrants of the North have allied indeed against it, but it is irresistible. Their opposition will only multiply it's millions of human victims; their own satellites will catch it, and the condition of man thro' the civilized world will be finally and greatly ameliorated."
-- Thomas Jefferson; from his Autobiography (1821)
"Funny that the Republicans in America at the time...." (January 3, 1793)(December 24th, 1793)(February 19, 1795) (1821)
WHO???
WHEN????
You really shouldn't drink on an empty head.
In early 1854, the first meeting of what became the Republican Party. took place in Ripon, Wisconsin. On June 6, 1854 near Jackson, Michigan, about 10,000 people turned out for a mass meeting. This led to the first organizing convention in Pittsburgh on February 22, 1856 . The Party's first nominating convention was in in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, on June 17, 1856.
When did the Republican party begin
y'know, the democratic Republicans. The party founded by Jefferson and Madison... Do you not believe in history books or something?
"Funny that the Republicans in America at the time...." (January 3, 1793)(December 24th, 1793)(February 19, 1795) (1821)
WHO???
WHEN????
You really shouldn't drink on an empty head.
In early 1854, the first meeting of what became the Republican Party. took place in Ripon, Wisconsin. On June 6, 1854 near Jackson, Michigan, about 10,000 people turned out for a mass meeting. This led to the first organizing convention in Pittsburgh on February 22, 1856 . The Party's first nominating convention was in in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, on June 17, 1856.
When did the Republican party begin
y'know, the democratic Republicans. The party founded by Jefferson and Madison... Do you not believe in history books or something?
But that's not what you said....is it.
You said the "Republicans."
Didn't you.
Do you not believe in being articulate or something?
