Liberal Smiles At Disaster Time

[ProudDem]

You haven't seen dems making a big issue out of blaming bush for not responding fast enough? It's kind of the 800 pound gorilla in the room.

You were not specific in how you thought the democrats were trying to bring him down. You're right. I missed the gorilla in the room. But I stand by what I said then above--that Bush is causing his own unpopularity.

And I do understand homonyms, all too well. I also understand people criticize small details when they cannot refute the main message.

LOL I was giving you a taste of your own medicine. You are free to attack anything I say, but all I saw was someone who was throwing punches without any attempt to have a discussion. You automatically assumed that I am like all democrats or liberals. Why not ask me a question instead of assuming?

And I think i do understand your decision making, your every utterance. I am inside your brain. I am Legion.

Okay, I like this answer.

 

[Said1]

"That my friend is the sultry stench of Cuban Socialism."

'But Rico went a bit too far, Tony sailed across the bar, and then the punches flew and chairs were smashed in two, there was blood and a single gun shot............'

 

[ProudDem]

Bush isn't running again, I don't think this would have a huge influence on the matter...unless I'm missing something.

Are you saying that the president should only worry about his popularity if he will be seeking a second term? If Bush did not care about how people perceive him in this situation, he would not have (1) come forward and admitted fault, (2) gone to New Orleans (after admitting fault) to show that he does care about them and (3) done his televised speech on Thursday.

Thus, while you think that his popularity is insignificant, I think he feels differently.

 

[Said1]

Are you saying that the president should only worry about his popularity if he will be seeking a second term? If Bush did not care about how people perceive him in this situation, he would not have (1) come forward and admitted fault, (2) gone to New Orleans (after admitting fault) to show that he does care about them and (3) done his televised speech on Thursday.

Thus, while you think that his popularity is insignificant, I think he feels differently.

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying his dismissal probably had nothing to do with his approval rating unless his staying had serious consequences, which it does not. Brown is still capable of speaking, if he has something negative to say about the president, he is free to do so.

Also, showing that you care usually takes precedence over the perception of other. Are you saying he didn't actually "care" he only did the above for personal gain that really serves no purpose in the long run? I guess he just wants to be remembered as a "guy who appeared to care".

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Why not ask me a question instead of assuming?

Do you really believe dems are not attempting to highlight Bush's reaction to Katrina?

Yea. They hardly ever mention it. You're funny.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Were you aware of this news item, ProudDem? Awareness rocks.




Senate Kills Bid for Katrina Commission


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050914/ap_on_go_ot/katrina_washington

WASHINGTON - Senate Republicans on Wednesday scuttled an attempt by Sen. Hillary Clinton to establish an independent, bipartisan panel patterned after the 9/11 Commission to investigate what went wrong with federal, state and local governments' response to Hurricane Katrina.

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The New York Democrat's bid to establish the panel — which would have also made recommendations on how to improve the government's disaster response apparatus — failed to win the two-thirds majority needed to overcome procedural hurdles. Clinton got only 44 votes, all from Democrats and independent Sen. Jim Jeffords of Vermont. Fifty-four Republicans all voted no.

 

[ProudDem]

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying his dismissal probably had nothing to do with his approval rating unless his staying had serious consequences, which it does not. Brown is still capable of speaking, if he has something negative to say about the president, he is free to do so.

We may not be speaking about the same thing. I am saying that the majority of people thought that Brown was not doing a good job. He was removed after Cheney went to New Orleans. Anyway, what I was saying was that Brown's negative publicity was affecting Bush's popularity (afterall, Bush appointed him). I think that was what was behind his resignation. Of course this is all my opinion. I could be wrong.

Also, showing that you care usually takes precedence over the perception of other. Are you saying he didn't actually "care" he only did the above for personal gain that really serves no purpose in the long run? I guess he just wants to be remembered as a "guy who appeared to care".

I think he cares, but he didn't give this issue importance. He left Crawford and went to California (after the hurricane) before going to New Orleans. That could give the impression that he didn't care enough to make it a priority. I do not believe he would have offered to rebuild New Orleans like he did on Thursday night out of the goodness in his heart.

I don't understand how you can essentially state that a president should not worry about his popularity if it serves no purpose in the long run. Huh? I think it's human nature to be concerned about how others perceive you. I am sure he wants the history books to look upon him favorably.

 

[ProudDem]

Were you aware of this news item, ProudDem? Awareness rocks.




Senate Kills Bid for Katrina Commission


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050914/ap_on_go_ot/katrina_washington

Yes, Avenger, I am aware of this. No surprise. Why would the republicans want a commission that could possibly make unfavorable findings related to their party. They know that the 2006 elections are coming up.

 

[manu1959]

Are you saying that the president should only worry about his popularity if he will be seeking a second term? If Bush did not care about how people perceive him in this situation, he would not have (1) come forward and admitted fault, (2) gone to New Orleans (after admitting fault) to show that he does care about them and (3) done his televised speech on Thursday.

Thus, while you think that his popularity is insignificant, I think he feels differently.

1 ..... i believe that bush does not care what you or anyone else thinks of him

2.... he did not admit fault....go read the words he said...he said that he would take responsibility if the feds made mistakes....

3....he went to new orleans because that is what you do

4....he gave a televised speach because that is the correct thing to do

5....he said the fed would help rebuild the city because that is the correct thing to do

you act like none of the above would have happend if it had not been on tv

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Yes, Avenger, I am aware of this. No surprise. Why would the republicans want a commission that could possibly make unfavorable findings related to their party. They know that the 2006 elections are coming up.

So then you ARE aware of dems trying to make an issue out of this? Did you misspeak or are you a liar? Or does this not constitute "making an issue out of", by some tortured logic?

 

[ProudDem]

So then you ARE aware of dems trying to make an issue out of this? Did you misspeak or are you a liar? Or does this not constitute "making an issue out of", by some tortured logic?

Huh? How did I misspeak? I am certainly not a liar. Are you asserting that this is part of the dems grasping to bring Bush down? If so, I don't see Clinton asking for an independent commission as trying to bring down the president, which is why I did not agree with your assertion. If you do, that's fine.

 

[manu1959]

Yes, Avenger, I am aware of this. No surprise. Why would the republicans want a commission that could possibly make unfavorable findings related to their party. They know that the 2006 elections are coming up.

you should read the article.....this is round one....hillary lost....eventually the commission will be established same as 9/11 and eventually you will be told that state and local did not prepare properly, nor did they respond properly and you will be told that fema did not authorize funds fast enough and that the scope of the disater made it virtually impossible for several days to get anything, troops, food, supplies etc... in our out ... but that after they got the pumps fixed (evil haliburton) and the water started receeding the response was acceptable.....

same as 9/11....the dems didn't do shit for 8 years .....didn't prepare and didn't respond to attack after attack.....the republicans take office ....the hurricane hits and viloa....it is all bush's fault because he is a moron that can't talk but is smart enough to hire smart people and steal two elections and no one can catch him

 

[ProudDem]

1 ..... i believe that bush does not care what you or anyone else thinks of him

Okay.

2.... he did not admit fault....go read the words he said...he said that he would take responsibility if the feds made mistakes....

Why does it matter to you so much whether he admits fault or not? Or are you just attacking my take on this? The gist of his statements are that he is accepting fault.

3....he went to new orleans because that is what you do

Right. I agree. But he didn't give it priority. When I mentioned him going to New Orleans after his accepting fault "if" the gov't messed up, it was to show people he cared more than it had been perceived.

4....he gave a televised speach because that is the correct thing to do

It's the correct thing to do when you're upset that others have perceived your actions as not caring and indicative of racism.

5....he said the fed would help rebuild the city because that is the correct thing to do

Yes, but you see, what he's recommending is above and beyond what the fed gov't does in these situations.

you act like none of the above would have happend if it had not been on tv

What do you mean by "if it had not been on tv"? Are you talking about the hurricane itself or the aftermath?

 

[Said1]

We may not be speaking about the same thing. I am saying that the majority of people thought that Brown was not doing a good job. He was removed after Cheney went to New Orleans. Anyway, what I was saying was that Brown's negative publicity was affecting Bush's popularity (afterall, Bush appointed him). I think that was what was behind his resignation. Of course this is all my opinion. I could be wrong.

Ok, we weren't talking about the same thing, although I feel his resignation was the right decision, regardless of public opinion.

I think he cares, but he didn't give this issue importance. He left Crawford and went to California (after the hurricane) before going to New Orleans. That could give the impression that he didn't care enough to make it a priority. I do not believe he would have offered to rebuild New Orleans like he did on Thursday night out of the goodness in his heart.

Good grief, if the goal is to evacuate the city and given the state of lawlessness that fell over the city after the hurricane, I would not expect anyone to be rushing in (aside from relief orgs) until it was safer. The state is also entitled to relief funds to aid in rebuilding the city. What that amounts to is something I do not know off hand, but i'm sure you could google it in a flash.

I don't understand how you can essentially state that a president should not worry about his popularity if it serves no purpose in the long run. Huh? I think it's human nature to be concerned about how others perceive you. I am sure he wants the history books to look upon him favorably.

What?? That's not what I'm saying at all.

Go back to the part where I asked you if you thought the president did what he did in order to "show" that he cared, not because he actually did "care". That's what I'm getting at. Are you saying he only did what he did for "show" in order to influence public opinion that will only serve to bolster his ego? Don't you think it's possible, just for a second, to think he might actually CARE about what happened??

 

[Said1]

you should read the article.....this is round one....hillary lost....eventually the commission will be established same as 9/11 and eventually you will be told that state and local did not prepare properly, nor did they respond properly and you will be told that fema did not authorize funds fast enough and that the scope of the disater made it virtually impossible for several days to get anything, troops, food, supplies etc... in our out ... but that after they got the pumps fixed (evil haliburton) and the water started receeding the response was acceptable.....

same as 9/11....the dems didn't do shit for 8 years .....didn't prepare and didn't respond to attack after attack.....the republicans take office ....the hurricane hits and viloa....it is all bush's fault because he is a moron that can't talk but is smart enough to hire smart people and steal two elections and no one can catch him

Also, Blanco only requested $9 million in fed funds to aid in the disaster on the 27th of August. She made this request, knowing full well the pumps would not work with out POWER and that the cities levees would be toppled and damaged. Those two factors alone spell devestation to the areas dependant on levee and pumping systems!

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Huh? How did I misspeak? I am certainly not a liar. Are you asserting that this is part of the dems grasping to bring Bush down? If so, I don't see Clinton asking for an independent commission as trying to bring down the president, which is why I did not agree with your assertion. If you do, that's fine.

That was my option 3 for you:

Or does this not constitute "making an issue out of", by some tortured logic?

So your assertion is that there is no political motivation behind Clinton's asking for this independant commission? Yet you see the Republican squashing the commission as political?

That 800 pound gorilla could shit in your mouth and you'd just ask for another snickers.

 

[ProudDem]

Ok, we weren't talking about the same thing, although I feel his resignation was the right decision, regardless of public opinion.

Good grief, if the goal is to evacuate the city and given the state of lawlessness that fell over the city after the hurricane, I would not expect anyone to be rushing in (aside from relief orgs) until it was safer. The state is also entitled to relief funds to aid in rebuilding the city. What that amounts to is something I do not know off hand, but i'm sure you could google it in a flash.

Yes, I agree with the no "rushing" in there if it's not safe. I am not saying that Bush should have run to New Orleans. I am speaking about the appearance of Bush's behavior. Logically, he may not have been able to get there sooner, but not everyone thinks about whether he could physically go. He left Crawford in a hurry to go sign legislation for Terri Schiavo, which he signed at 1:00 in the morning. He clearly gave that legislation, which related to ONE human being, importance. Again, I understand that he may not have been able to get there, but the appearance of his not going there sooner was perceived as his not caring.

What?? That's not what I'm saying at all.

Go back to the part where I asked you if you thought the president did what he did in order to "show" that he cared, not because he actually did "care". That's what I'm getting at. Are you saying he only did what he did for "show" in order to influence public opinion that will only serve to bolster his ego? Don't you think it's possible, just for a second, to think he might actually CARE about what happened??

I think that some of the actions Bush has taken was a result of the perception that he did not care. I believe he cares, but I also believe that he would accepted responsibility or is going above and beyond of what is normally expected from the federal gov't in natural disasters because of what the polls are showing. JMO

 

[ProudDem]

That was my option 3 for you:


So your assertion is that there is no political motivation behind Clinton's asking for this independant commission? Yet you see the Republican squashing the commission as political?

That 800 pound gorilla could shit in your mouth and you'd just ask for another snickers.

I never said her asking for the independent commission was not political. I just don't see it as her trying to bring down the president.

 

[Said1]

Yes, I agree with the no "rushing" in there if it's not safe. I am not saying that Bush should have run to New Orleans. I am speaking about the appearance of Bush's behavior. Logically, he may not have been able to get there sooner, but not everyone thinks about whether he could physically go. He left Crawford in a hurry to go sign legislation for Terri Schiavo, which he signed at 1:00 in the morning. He clearly gave that legislation, which related to ONE human being, importance. Again, I understand that he may not have been able to get there, but the appearance of his not going there sooner was perceived as his not caring.

So your arguing the case for those who don't "get" that it was not possible for him to get their sooner?

I think that some of the actions Bush has taken was a result of the perception that he did not care. I believe he cares, but I also believe that he would accepted responsibility or is going above and beyond of what is normally expected from the federal gov't in natural disasters because of what the polls are showing. JMO

I'm not following you, how is he going above and beyond what is expected?
I thought he did accept some responsiblity? What did the then president do after the last hurricane that alomst totally devested New Orleans in the 60's that is so different from now?

 

[ProudDem]

So your arguing the case for those who don't "get" that it was not possible for him to get their sooner?

I guess so. This conclusion I have drawn is based on watching the news and reading newspapers on this topic.

I'm not following you, how is he going above and beyond what is expected?
I thought he did accept some responsiblity? What did the then president do after the last hurricane that alomst totally devested New Orleans in the 60's that is so different from now?

I see that I missed a "not" in my prior post. I was saying that Bush's acceptance of responsibility was a result of the perception that he did not care. I have no idea what the president did back in the 1960's. I am saying it goes above and beyond based on reading articles and watching commentary shows.