Liberal Love affair with Unions

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Skull Pilot, Dec 17, 2008.

  1. Skull Pilot
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    Skull Pilot Platinum Member

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    To this day, I don't understand the love affair some of you have with unions.

    Many of you rail incessantly that corporations that scam and scheme to infringe upon "rights" of workers should be subject to more governmental control, that salaries should be subject to government imposed maximums, that business should be subject to ever increasing government regulation and over sight.

    But what about your beloved Unions? there are endless reports and yes lawsuits against unions for wrongful discrimination, intimidation , illegal fines and other activities, not to mention the same kind of corruption and backroom political deals that you accuse business of.

    Do you believe it is legal and ethical to force an employee to pay union dues if that employee does not want to join a union?

    Isn't denying employment to a person who does not choose to join a union discrimination on the same order as not hiring them because of race creed or color?

    Right to workgroups have been reporting union abuses, violence and intimidation and providing legal representation for people who have had their rights violated by unions and union members.

    Unions, particularly the UAW has taken right to work groups such as the National Right to Work Legal Foundation to court to attempt to obtain lists of contributors who support the foundations fight for voluntary unionism.

    Worker Advocate: How Dare You Threaten National Right to Work and Its Supporters on National TV, Mr. Gettelfinger! | National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation

    Angry auto union boss blames voluntary unionism group for the auto industry's problems, wants a list of the group's financial backers

    Mark Mix, President of the National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation, made the following statement today in response to United Auto Workers (UAW) union president Ron Gettelfinger's angry lashing out on national television at the legal foundation's efforts to defend workers from forced unionism abuse:

    "How dare you blame the current debacle in the automotive business on efforts to give workers the right to join or not join a union. These problems have been caused by the forced unionism stranglehold you currently enjoy.

    "Make no mistake; you will never get your hands on the list of the National Right to Work Foundation's contributors....

    Gettelfinger was referencing a 13-year legal battle by the UAW and 12 other international unions intended to force the National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation to reveal the names and addresses of its contributors. During the litigation, union lawyers finally admitted they wanted to send the contributor list to local union chiefs all over the country. They wanted to make “discreet inquiries” about the contributors in their areas.


    Just what kind of "discreet" inquiries do you think these union thugs...I mean representatives want to make into the lives of those who don't support forced unionism?

    Here are just a few more union highlights

    Agency Trial Judge Won’t Punish Union Officials for Threatening Non-Striking PVHMC Nurses with Fines, Jail | National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation

    Worker Seeks Injunction to Prevent Unwanted Union from Acquiring Confidential Personal Information | National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation

    SEIU Union Hit with FEC Complaint for Illegal Political Fundraising Scheme | National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation

    Feds to Prosecute UAW Union Bosses for Blocking Job Promotions for Non-union Members | National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation

    those are a minuscule sample of legal actions being taken against unions just this year.

    now what about Unions and corrupt politicians?

    It seems there is some evidence that the SEIU is involved in some particularly dirty deals with our good friend Blagojevich.

    [youtube]mkz0zjqy51U&eurl[/youtube]

    So the next time any of you want to extoll the virtue and benevolence of unions think of this woman

    Worker Files Civil Damages Lawsuit for Massive Union Harassment Campaign | National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation

    Hartford, Connecticut (July 24, 2008) – Today, National Right to Work Foundation staff attorneys are filing a state court lawsuit on behalf of a Connecticut resident who suffered from an ugly campaign of retaliation at the hands of area union officials. The suit alleges that union militants conspired to commit fraud and identity theft in order to bombard Patricia Pelletier with hundreds of mail-order magazines, violating her rights and sticking her with thousands of dollars in subscription and mail order fees.

    These few examples show that unions will go to any length necessary to intimidate those who believe they have the right NOT to join a union.

    Remember that when the Unions want card check rather than secret ballots.
     
  2. DiamondDave
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    DiamondDave Army Vet

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    Unions once had their place.... that is no longer the case
     
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  3. Lycurgus
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    Lycurgus Who is Obama, really...??

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    Skull, I sure understand your opinion. I rarely was able to experience the up side of labors unions, specifically the UAW. However, when I did, it was honestly appreciated.

    Unions did have their place and in my opinion, if they truly would do what they are meant to do, they could still be very productive both in the workplace and in the marketplace.

    Sadly though this is not the case and the dark side of the UAW which sadly greatly now over shadows the positive side, is a clear indicator that they are not only a lost cause, but, very counter productive and a true threat to American companies competing in the global market.

    I wish there were some feasible way to get the unions to restructure themselves to be what they were intended, but, that would mean a complete restructure and 100% all new leaders from the line on up.

    It just isn't going to happen and the more the liberals pander to them, the more they pamper them, the worse things will be for this nation.
     
  4. BlackAsCoal
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    BlackAsCoal Gold Member

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    Although I'm not a liberal I certainly understand the "love affair" with unions.

    As an African-American, I know the mass exodus from the south to the north had a lot to do with unions .. as well as getting away from the racist insanity of the south. For the first time in more than 364 years of existence in America, blacks enjoyed fair and equitable wages and benefits because of unions .. that was particularly true of the UAW and AFL/CIO.

    Unions were also the driving force behind workplace safety guidelines and OSHA requirements. The American worker never had it so good until unions stepped in to ensure their rights.

    Today, I live in a "right to work" state, which is the same as the right to discriminate, the right of corporations to do whatever they want with workers.

    The decline of the American worker can be traced to the day Ronald Reagan took office and set upon a course to destroy unions and the rights of American workers along with it.

    Although there have been some abuses by unions, overall the American worker was much better off with them.

    The notion that "it's the workers fault" is mindless in my opinion.
     
  5. Diuretic
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    Diuretic Permanently confused

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    Organised labour has never been so relevant. Despite the propaganda, the experience of ordinary people around the world will reflect that. When organised labour moves from facilitating capitalism, which it has to do now, to facilitating socialism, which it must do in the future, organised labour will change its nature. It will still protect ordinary working people, but the framework will have changed.
     
  6. Skull Pilot
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    Skull Pilot Platinum Member

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    So forced unionism is the answer to all the problems of the market?

    Do you believe that one should be free NOT to join a union?

    Do you think promotions, pay raises and other benefits being denied to those who choose not to join a union is right?

    Unions preach about rights of workers but only want to protect the rights of those that pay union dues and collect those dues by force and intimidation if needs be.

    Is it right for unions to punish those who refuse to strike?

    I really don't care about the "around the world" mentality. These union abuses are happening here in the US where people are supposed to have right not to be harassed and intimidated by any group, including labor unions.

    If a religious organization sued to obtain financial records of people donating to planned parenthood so they could discreetly investigate who supports PP, would you allow it? would there even be a discussion?

    Yet the UAW has been trying for 13 years to obtain lists of contributors of organizations that support voluntary unionism rather than forced compliance.

    Unions are as corrupt as any other group yet they are revered by many.

    it makes no sense to me.
     
  7. rayboyusmc
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    rayboyusmc Senior Member

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    Totally disagree. Right now, unions, like most organizations of humans are not doing completely what they should. They are, however, the only answer to giving a million voiceless people a voice that has some kind of power.

    Right now, the RNC is trying to destroy the unions completely. If they ever succeed, you will not even have a minimum wage. You will get what they want to pay based on how cheap they can import labor.

    Rich corporations are no more honest or moral than regular people. They will go for the maximum profit just like they did in the pre union days.

    People on these threads have said that we wouldn't have a job without corporations. No shit sherlock. But corporations couldn't exist without workers. The problem is the corporations hold all the power without a union movement. You think they won't go back to child labor and whatever works in this country if they could get away with it.

    My experience with the labor union that I deal with as management has been disapointing in that they spend too much time protecting the guilty few and not enough time working for the innocent many. They have, however, maintained a good working wage for our tradespeople that is not matched on the outside in non union jobs here in Florida.

    There are those in this county's businesses that would return US to a feudal system of serfdom and nobles if they could. Damn near as it is.

    Why do they hate and fear the middle class since it is the middle class that makes these bastards wealthy?

    Greed is just one of their stupid stereotypes.
     
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  8. Red Dawn
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    Red Dawn Senior Member

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    Yes, if they want to accept the same pay and benefits package that the Union spent time, money, and resources to negotiate on behalf of their dues-paying members.

    Otherwise, that dude should turn down the union compensation package, and walk into management's office by themselves, and try to individually negotiate a pension plan, healthcare plan, and salary by themselves.

    If you don't want to pay union dues, don't accept a pension plan and salary that the union and its dues paying members paid to negotiate for.
     
  9. Skull Pilot
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    Skull Pilot Platinum Member

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    The employer offers that package not the union.

    If an employer wants to offer the same package of benefits to a nonunion worker as it does to a union worker, what business is it of the union to interfere?

    But as far as union provided benefits are concerned, I agree.
     
  10. Red Dawn
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    Red Dawn Senior Member

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    The company offers a compensation package that the union spent money, time, and resources to negotiate. Money that came from the pockets of dues-paying members. And statistically speaking, a union compensation package is generally better than a compensation package any one individual could have negotiated individually for themselves.

    So, its your position that some union-hating employees should get something for nothing. They should enjoy the compensation package the union spent money and resources negotiating for, for free. While letting their union-supporting fellow employees pay for it all.

    Why do republicans always think you should be able to get something for nothing?
     
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