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How does it make more sense to penalize those who are at the bottom rung trying to work their way out of poverty instead?
I will repeat what Newby said, because it's true:
The poor don't pay taxes.
There is a bottom line, if you earn less than that you pay nothing in income taxes.
I think I read/heard somewhere that something like 48% do not pay taxes, but I'd have to verify that b/c I'm not sure if it's really that high. And that's a big problem if it is that high, because then that 48% have absolutely no stake in what the feds do or how high they make the taxes. In fact the opposite is true, and they are voting to raise taxes and to keep all the free goodies coming. It's the basis, in my opinion, of what the Democratic party stands for. Vote for us, we'll take care of you, give you everything you need and pay for it all by taking the money from all the 'haves', and when it's a voting block of 48% and growing, then the stage it set and the pandering begins. It's a lousy system that we've allowed to evolve in this country.
How does it make more sense to penalize those who are at the bottom rung trying to work their way out of poverty instead?
I will repeat what Newby said, because it's true:
The poor don't pay taxes.
There is a bottom line, if you earn less than that you pay nothing in income taxes.
I think I read/heard somewhere that something like 48% do not pay taxes, but I'd have to verify that b/c I'm not sure if it's really that high. And that's a big problem if it is that high, because then that 48% have absolutely no stake in what the feds do or how high they make the taxes. In fact the opposite is true, and they are voting to raise taxes and to keep all the free goodies coming. It's the basis, in my opinion, of what the Democratic party stands for. Vote for us, we'll take care of you, give you everything you need and pay for it all by taking the money from all the 'haves', and when it's a voting block of 48% and growing, then the stage it set and the pandering begins. It's a lousy system that we've allowed to evolve in this country.
I will repeat what Newby said, because it's true:
The poor don't pay taxes.
There is a bottom line, if you earn less than that you pay nothing in income taxes.
I think I read/heard somewhere that something like 48% do not pay taxes, but I'd have to verify that b/c I'm not sure if it's really that high. And that's a big problem if it is that high, because then that 48% have absolutely no stake in what the feds do or how high they make the taxes. In fact the opposite is true, and they are voting to raise taxes and to keep all the free goodies coming. It's the basis, in my opinion, of what the Democratic party stands for. Vote for us, we'll take care of you, give you everything you need and pay for it all by taking the money from all the 'haves', and when it's a voting block of 48% and growing, then the stage it set and the pandering begins. It's a lousy system that we've allowed to evolve in this country.
You heard wrong; or more probably you heard from a biased source that misinformed you.
Every working person pays at least 7.5% payroll taxes -- closer to 15% if you include the employer's payment.
Sure, let's figure out a way to penalize people for saving their money as well. Geez ... you people NEVER quit where it comes to digging in MY pockets and spending MY money.
You're broke. Who's digging in your pockets? You most likely benefit from the progressive tax. See, you are the perfect example of someone who argues outside of his own tax bracket. I love it!
When McCain said Obama is going to raise YOUR taxes, you do know he wasn't talking to you, right?
Actually, raising taxes is bad for the economy, always has been, always will be. Raise it on the rich only and they will find ways to screw us more while no one will ever want to get rich, thus growth fails and we become third world. It's a razors edge and you fail to see that.
I think I read/heard somewhere that something like 48% do not pay taxes, but I'd have to verify that b/c I'm not sure if it's really that high. And that's a big problem if it is that high, because then that 48% have absolutely no stake in what the feds do or how high they make the taxes. In fact the opposite is true, and they are voting to raise taxes and to keep all the free goodies coming. It's the basis, in my opinion, of what the Democratic party stands for. Vote for us, we'll take care of you, give you everything you need and pay for it all by taking the money from all the 'haves', and when it's a voting block of 48% and growing, then the stage it set and the pandering begins. It's a lousy system that we've allowed to evolve in this country.
You heard wrong; or more probably you heard from a biased source that misinformed you.
Every working person pays at least 7.5% payroll taxes -- closer to 15% if you include the employer's payment.
We're discussing federal income tax.
The poor don't pay taxes.
You heard wrong; or more probably you heard from a biased source that misinformed you.
Every working person pays at least 7.5% payroll taxes -- closer to 15% if you include the employer's payment.
We're discussing federal income tax.
We're discussing taxes:
The poor don't pay taxes.
How does it make more sense to penalize those who are at the bottom rung trying to work their way out of poverty instead?
I will repeat what Newby said, because it's true:
The poor don't pay taxes.
There is a bottom line, if you earn less than that you pay nothing in income taxes.
I think I read/heard somewhere that something like 48% do not pay taxes, but I'd have to verify that b/c I'm not sure if it's really that high. And that's a big problem if it is that high, because then that 48% have absolutely no stake in what the feds do or how high they make the taxes. In fact the opposite is true, and they are voting to raise taxes and to keep all the free goodies coming. It's the basis, in my opinion, of what the Democratic party stands for. Vote for us, we'll take care of you, give you everything you need and pay for it all by taking the money from all the 'haves', and when it's a voting block of 48% and growing, then the stage it set and the pandering begins. It's a lousy system that we've allowed to evolve in this country.
Over 40% of people do not pay any income taxes. they pay SS at 7.5%. The employer pays 7.5% and cannot be counted as the employee's tax burden.
People are not exempt from sales taxes, excise taxes etc so why should anyone be exempt from income tax if they have an income?
No one should be exempt from any tax.
We're discussing federal income tax.
We're discussing taxes:
The poor don't pay taxes.
Now you're just being intellectually dishonest.
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What free goodies?
If you ask me, the system takes care of the poor, as it should, and it certainly benefits the rich, so who's getting fucked?
The middle class!!!!! We're paying all the taxes. The rich have loopholes and write offs and they get their taxes back. Hell, they probably make money on the scam.
Over 40% of people do not pay any income taxes. they pay SS at 7.5%. The employer pays 7.5% and cannot be counted as the employee's tax burden.
Not according to the CBO and most economists:
http://www.appwp.org/documents/bush_taxbenefits_1pager.pdf
So if one pays no income tax and only pays half of the tax that funds an entitlement program that will pay him back what he paid in or more is that person actually paying taxes?
NO.
What percentage of the 52% of workers that pay payroll tax but not income tax get their entire payroll tax refunded to them?
People are not exempt from sales taxes, excise taxes etc so why should anyone be exempt from income tax if they have an income?
No one should be exempt from any tax.
Because the poor need their money that would otherwise go to taxes for basics like health care, education, transportation, food and shelter.
The richest use their money that would otherwise go to taxes to by bigger yachts and jet aircraft.
Be careful, you're class envy is showing.
And yes, folks can judge for themselves. It was rather apparent that the discussion was regarding federal income tax, which is what presidential hopefuls are talking about when they make promises on the campaign trail about 'taxes'. But, if you want to pretend that it was discussing all of the other myriad of taxes out there and not what April 15th is all about, then more power to you.
The poor don't pay taxes.
Over 40% of people do not pay any income taxes. they pay SS at 7.5%. The employer pays 7.5% and cannot be counted as the employee's tax burden.
So if one pays no income tax and only pays half of the tax that funds an entitlement program that will pay him back what he paid in or more is that person actually paying taxes?
NO.
People are not exempt from sales taxes, excise taxes etc so why should anyone be exempt from income tax if they have an income?
No one should be exempt from any tax.
Over 40% of people do not pay any income taxes. they pay SS at 7.5%. The employer pays 7.5% and cannot be counted as the employee's tax burden.
Not according to the CBO and most economists:
http://www.appwp.org/documents/bush_taxbenefits_1pager.pdf
So if one pays no income tax and only pays half of the tax that funds an entitlement program that will pay him back what he paid in or more is that person actually paying taxes?
NO.
People are not exempt from sales taxes, excise taxes etc so why should anyone be exempt from income tax if they have an income?
No one should be exempt from any tax.
Because the poor need their money that would otherwise go to taxes for basics like health care, education, transportation, food and shelter.
The richest use their money that would otherwise go to taxes to by bigger yachts and jet aircraft.
So what if rich people buy shit if they pay their taxes. Those big ticket items create high paying jobs don't they?
You all piss and moan that rich people should pay their "fair share" but you can say that someone else is exempt from a tax. that's not "fair" is it. Especially when you realize that the people who are exempt from taxes use government services more than rich people.
everyone should have a stake in the country and that means no one should be exempt from any taxes. There should be a minimum income tax paid by everyone. Personally I think the first 5% of every dollar made should be the minimum that way everyone contributes something to the country.
That's "fair"
Be careful, you're class envy is showing.
And yes, folks can judge for themselves. It was rather apparent that the discussion was regarding federal income tax, which is what presidential hopefuls are talking about when they make promises on the campaign trail about 'taxes'. But, if you want to pretend that it was discussing all of the other myriad of taxes out there and not what April 15th is all about, then more power to you.
I didn't find that this statement by you made it apparent at all you were only talking about income taxes:
The poor don't pay taxes.
Maybe others did
And irrespective, if you are talking about who has the tax burden it is compeletly legitimate to look at all taxes, and not cherry pick the group of taxes that the wealthist pay the most.
Over 40% of people do not pay any income taxes. they pay SS at 7.5%. The employer pays 7.5% and cannot be counted as the employee's tax burden.
So if one pays no income tax and only pays half of the tax that funds an entitlement program that will pay him back what he paid in or more is that person actually paying taxes?
NO.
People are not exempt from sales taxes, excise taxes etc so why should anyone be exempt from income tax if they have an income?
No one should be exempt from any tax.
How much money do you want to take from someone who makes minimum wage?
And hell, we aren't even paying for what we spend now, and we can't fix the problem by cutting spending alone. We MUST raise taxes somewhere.
So, should we burden the poor any more than they already are? Or the middle class? Fuck that! We are certainly being overtaxed. You don't deny that, right? And we don't have loopholes or offshore accounts.
So are you now saying that YOU aren't paying your fair share? Because either you aren't or the rich aren't. Pick one. You won't pick though, because it'll prove you are wrong.
This is why we have a progressive tax.
If we taxed the rich and poor evenly, we wouldn't have enough money to pay for what we spend, and that includes all the defense spending that gives you a boner.
A scary element of the recent election was related to the division of what classifies "rich". Unfortunately, both parties GREATLY missed the mark by focusing the debate on annual earnings, something that is both naive and archaic in nature.
With an income tax system that is progressive, we inhibit growth of individuals from one class to a higher class through taxation on earnings. We do this by labeling them as wealthy if they earn more than a certain dollar amount per year without regard to their actual net worth.
If we want a progressive tax system, it should be based, at least partially, on the net worth of the individual. Currently, someone worth $1 billion that earns $100k per year will pay less in taxes than someone worth -$200k (student loans perhaps) that earns $250k per year. This makes it very difficult for the one who assumed significant debt to be a success to become one.
I like the national sales tax concept, but only as a replacement. We already have too much taxation. If we had both a sales tax and an income tax, we would end up with only 1% of our earnings that we decide how to use.
So the billionaire who has already paid taxes on the money he/she earned should be taxed again on it because they have more than everyone else? Why don't we just say that people in the US will only be permitted to accumulate a net worth of $1 million. After that, all assests are taxed at 100% since they already have everything they need. Sorry, I'm not buying into that.
What I will buy into however, is a flat tax rate across the board on all earnings (wages, capital gains dividends, everything), along with an inheritance tax equal to the going rate.
