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Yes but if these drugs are legalized the price will go down, which makes the drugs even easier to get, they can find a willing adult to walk into a store and buy them heroin instead of purchasing it on the street for a more expensive price.
Really? Would you buy it for them? I wouldn't. I'd venture that the vast majority in this thread wouldn't either. How many adults do you think they would have to ask....provided they actually had the balls to ask....before they find one willing?
Kids have no problem finding ways to get alcohol now, and find willing adults to go into the store and buy it for them. I wouldn't do it, but if drugs were legalized how would that be any different? adults would take the moral high ground all of a sudden and not supply kids with drugs?
Plenty of alleged "liberals" use that lame-assed jabbering point....But logic hasn't applied to them either, since at least the onset of industrial revolution."What is the logic that drives anti-legalization folks to think that drug use will all of a sudden take some big double digit jump?"
they are conservatives. logic doesn't apply.
Not necessarily. Most of the trauma of even harder drugs is related to what they have to do to get them. AND more to the point of the OP there would be more people safe in their homes and safely for the public off of the streets if they could do their chemical relaxation without fear in their own environment. i suspect that many of the "accidents" cited were on the way to or from a clandestine drug deal.
Legalizing drugs may take crime off the streets and people will be able to shoot up in their own homes but it still does not take away the damage that years of heroin, meth, crack etc. abuse will do to an addict, legalizing these things does not automatically fix everything for these people.
I don't think it is anyone's business to "fix everything" for anyone else. Some people are just going to be alcoholics...heroin users...pot smokers etc.. Dehumanizing them certainly does not improve the whole situation...for the user or society.
hmmmmm.....some of them cause paranoia, so I'm not sure we can totally eliminate that factor.
I think the fact that one's life is pretty much ruined if caught is probably the biggest problem.
If someone is addicted to heroin or crystal meth their lives are pretty much ruined whether they are caught or not.
But, as soon as you inject heroin its pretty much too late to try and stop the high right? I mean using heroin is not like sitting there and drinking beer after beer, you can always stop drinking after a certain amount but once you inject that needle how can you go back?
Really? Would you buy it for them? I wouldn't. I'd venture that the vast majority in this thread wouldn't either. How many adults do you think they would have to ask....provided they actually had the balls to ask....before they find one willing?
Kids have no problem finding ways to get alcohol now, and find willing adults to go into the store and buy it for them. I wouldn't do it, but if drugs were legalized how would that be any different? adults would take the moral high ground all of a sudden and not supply kids with drugs?
There are allready laws on the books that deal with this. The problem is very little resources are given over to enforcement. I guarantee you though, if the enforcement is stepped and more importantly the penalties are stepped up, you will have very few adults willing to risk prison for a kid they don't know.
Complicit adults who wish to screw their childrens lives up are plentiful and they allready do it so decriminalization won't affect them anyway.
I think the fact that one's life is pretty much ruined if caught is probably the biggest problem.
If someone is addicted to heroin or crystal meth their lives are pretty much ruined whether they are caught or not.
No they're not. There are lots of functional heroin addicts who go about their lives and no one knows who or what they suffer from.
I'm one of them.I agree but several posters have said they should go ahead and legalize all of it, meth, heroin, hash, meth, the whole package.
Under that paradigm, things like crystal meth and tar heroin would vanish overnight, much the way bathtub gin did after the end of prohibition.
Now, you might in turn point out that there are still moonshiners, and there are....Yet, they do what they do largely as hobbyists and, as an added benefit, Chicago isn't a shooting gallery for people who are in it only for the illicit profits.
But, bathtub gin was taken away because people could now go into a store and buy real gin. Are you saying if we legalized things like marijuana and other lesser drugs, people wouldn't want heroin or crack anymore? I doubt very much that would be the case.
If someone is addicted to heroin or crystal meth their lives are pretty much ruined whether they are caught or not.
Not necessarily. Most of the trauma of even harder drugs is related to what they have to do to get them. AND more to the point of the OP there would be more people safe in their homes and safely for the public off of the streets if they could do their chemical relaxation without fear in their own environment. i suspect that many of the "accidents" cited were on the way to or from a clandestine drug deal.
Legalizing drugs may take crime off the streets and people will be able to shoot up in their own homes but it still does not take away the damage that years of heroin, meth, crack etc. abuse will do to an addict, legalizing these things does not automatically fix everything for these people.
That's largely because they didn't meet a massive, freedom-killing failure of a nanny state program that they didn't like.Plenty of alleged "liberals" use that lame-assed jabbering point....But logic hasn't applied to them either, since at least the onset of industrial revolution."What is the logic that drives anti-legalization folks to think that drug use will all of a sudden take some big double digit jump?"
they are conservatives. logic doesn't apply.
I don't see what being conserative has to do with this, not ever liberal wants drugs legalized either.
But, as soon as you inject heroin its pretty much too late to try and stop the high right? I mean using heroin is not like sitting there and drinking beer after beer, you can always stop drinking after a certain amount but once you inject that needle how can you go back?
Hitting someone with Narcan not only stops the high, it causes a 180 turn so that the person goes through withdrawal and people tend to go a little apeshit when they get it. They try to avoid it unless it's absolutely necessary.
The real problem with opiates is the addictive potential they have. People that are hooked have a hard time kicking it. Legality isn't going to change that. The hallmark of addiction/dependence is using a substance regardless of negative consequences to include loss of job, family, etc. Chemical addiction is real. It's not simply a matter of being "weak". Legalizing opiates only removes criminal sanctions for an addict. It doesn't change the fact that people that are addicted to opiates are non-productive.
I don't think we need to contribute to social Darwinism in the name of individual liberty.
I'm one of them.
Under that paradigm, things like crystal meth and tar heroin would vanish overnight, much the way bathtub gin did after the end of prohibition.
Now, you might in turn point out that there are still moonshiners, and there are....Yet, they do what they do largely as hobbyists and, as an added benefit, Chicago isn't a shooting gallery for people who are in it only for the illicit profits.
But, bathtub gin was taken away because people could now go into a store and buy real gin. Are you saying if we legalized things like marijuana and other lesser drugs, people wouldn't want heroin or crack anymore? I doubt very much that would be the case.
That is the case though. Of course there are allways going to be a few who go on to harder things. But the majority won't and if the stuff is legal you don't see a lot of meth use because the cocaine (especially pure) is actually cheaper to get, give a better effect and in general has no bad side effects.
If you have a choice of buying moonshine from some garage operation or fine whiskey from a store with a government stamp on it...and the good stuff is cheaper, why would you ever buy the crap that can kill you?
That is the case though. Of course there are allways going to be a few who go on to harder things. But the majority won't and if the stuff is legal you don't see a lot of meth use because the cocaine (especially pure) is actually cheaper to get, give a better effect and in general has no bad side effects.
If you have a choice of buying moonshine from some garage operation or fine whiskey from a store with a government stamp on it...and the good stuff is cheaper, why would you ever buy the crap that can kill you?
I'm one of them.I agree but several posters have said they should go ahead and legalize all of it, meth, heroin, hash, meth, the whole package.
Under that paradigm, things like crystal meth and tar heroin would vanish overnight, much the way bathtub gin did after the end of prohibition.
Now, you might in turn point out that there are still moonshiners, and there are....Yet, they do what they do largely as hobbyists and, as an added benefit, Chicago isn't a shooting gallery for people who are in it only for the illicit profits.
The grandchildren of the moonshiners are now cooking crank in my old hometown. It doesn't matter what the substance is, as long as it is illegal there will be a market for it and people will use that to try and supplement their incomes (or simply survive in the case of the new "Moonshiners").
That doesn't mean that just making everything legal is the solution to it. At some point asking "what is the net gain for society"? is a legitimate question.
Even the purest of Methamphetamine is a wicked drug.
Once again, you're operating from premises that are false on their face, not the least of which that it's not gubmint's job to "fix" people.Legalizing drugs may take crime off the streets and people will be able to shoot up in their own homes but it still does not take away the damage that years of heroin, meth, crack etc. abuse will do to an addict, legalizing these things does not automatically fix everything for these people.
But, how do you educate someone on the proper amount of heroin or crystal meth to take?
You don't. You educate them on what the signs of toxicity are. What to do when the signs emerge and most importantly when it is no longer a legal issue they will be far more likely to call for help. A simple shot of Narcan deals with a heroin overdose...provided the paramedics get there to administer it.
But, as soon as you inject heroin its pretty much too late to try and stop the high right? I mean using heroin is not like sitting there and drinking beer after beer, you can always stop drinking after a certain amount but once you inject that needle how can you go back?
I think the fact that one's life is pretty much ruined if caught is probably the biggest problem.
If someone is addicted to heroin or crystal meth their lives are pretty much ruined whether they are caught or not.
No they're not. There are lots of functional heroin addicts who go about their lives and no one knows who or what they suffer from.
You don't. You educate them on what the signs of toxicity are. What to do when the signs emerge and most importantly when it is no longer a legal issue they will be far more likely to call for help. A simple shot of Narcan deals with a heroin overdose...provided the paramedics get there to administer it.
But, as soon as you inject heroin its pretty much too late to try and stop the high right? I mean using heroin is not like sitting there and drinking beer after beer, you can always stop drinking after a certain amount but once you inject that needle how can you go back?
Why do you wish to control peoples ability to life, liberty, and their pursuit of happiness?
You don't have dangerous meth labs literally destroying houses on contact from the airborne toxins, and subsequently endangering entire neighborhoods....The list goes on and on....The net gain for society is you no longer have completely innocent bystanders killed because of wars over drug selling territory. You don't have dipshits breaking into others houses to feed their habit, you don't have drug addled halfwits abusing their children because they are afraid to seek help. The list is a pretty long one if you just think about it.
