Late Stage Socialism: Venezuela Kidnaps Chevron Execs

[danielpalos]

Only lousy management eschews, Pareto Optimality in public policies.

 

[Weatherman2020]

The Depression was a worldwide event, dufus, affecting every form of government on the planet.

Your ignorance is amazing.

Yes, the depression was worldwide, because capitalism was world wide!

After the 1929 crash, Roosevelt regulated the economy - as in the Glass-Steagall Act. The rich hated the regulations and set about undoing the regulations. Fast forward to 2008, and unregulated capitalism crashes the economy - and again, it was a worldwide crash!

Shitforbrains thinks the USSR was capitalist.

No, you don't understand! The Soviet Union failed for the same reason the US economy is now failing. In Russia, a few people - in the communist party - made all of the economic decision, and did so for their personal benefit. This lead to a disaster.

In the US, a few people - on the board of directors - make all of the economic decisions, and do so for their personal benefit. This will lead to the same disaster.

Corporate boards do not make my economic decisions, nor do they make the economic decisions of 300 million plus other Americans. Your ignorance of capitalism is only surpassed by your willingness to share it with the rest of us.

I, like most Americans only deal with a corporation when we consider it in our self interest to do so. Consequently, whatever the corporate board decides, has little to no effect on our well being.

While I fully agree that corporate influence has way to much influence on our political system, corporations will cease to exist if they do not cater to the wants of American consumers.

You have got to be joking with this line, "Corporate boards do not make my economic decisions." Yes, they do! When Wal-Mart comes into your community and forces local businesses to close, they are making your economic decisions.

And one more, since 2001, the U.S. has lost more than 60,000 factories, because they moved to other countries. Every move was a decision made by the Board of Directors. And I could go on and on!

Then you reverse your position with "While I fully agree that corporate influence (in politics)." Oh, and you think corporations being in politics has nothing what so ever to do with "economic decisions!" You are approaching the absurd!

Dufus thinks Amazon and Starbucks forces him to buy from them.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Oh and how does one change a foreign government so we may know what to look out for.

Well, if you want to know "how does one change a foreign government", you can start with the article, "Kermit Roosevelt; Arranged Iran Coup", which is about Pres. Teddy Roosevelt's grandson Kermit, and what he did in Iran.

Kermit Roosevelt; Arranged Iran Coup

Ah, a single man overthrew a government.
How interesting to look at the world of a moonbat.

Your response of "Ah, a single man overthrew a government", is just a denial of history. And no, he did not do it by himself. He had lots of money from the US government!

Please get serious, and do not deny a historical event that can be found in numerous sources.

I assume the CIA who had the oil execs kidnapped by the Venezuelan government.

About "assume the CIA", you may assume whatever you like. Regarding "oil execs" and the "Venezuelan government", given the track record of exploitation and pollution from the oil companies, you should not assume the oil execs are some innocent nice guys. They are certainly not viewed that way in much in Central and South America.

Ah, environmentalism. Socialism has its place in that category too. Socialism gave us Lake Karachy, the most polluted place on earth. So radioactive that 30 seconds in the water is a fatal dose.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Oh and how does one change a foreign government so we may know what to look out for.

Well, if you want to know "how does one change a foreign government", you can start with the article, "Kermit Roosevelt; Arranged Iran Coup", which is about Pres. Teddy Roosevelt's grandson Kermit, and what he did in Iran.

Kermit Roosevelt; Arranged Iran Coup

Ah, a single man overthrew a government.
How interesting to look at the world of a moonbat.

Your response of "Ah, a single man overthrew a government", is just a denial of history. And no, he did not do it by himself. He had lots of money from the US government!

Please get serious, and do not deny a historical event that can be found in numerous sources.

I assume the CIA who had the oil execs kidnapped by the Venezuelan government.

About "assume the CIA", you may assume whatever you like. Regarding "oil execs" and the "Venezuelan government", given the track record of exploitation and pollution from the oil companies, you should not assume the oil execs are some innocent nice guys. They are certainly not viewed that way in much in Central and South America.

They are far more innocent than the monstrous government of Venezuela

 

[Soupnazi630]

Bite the hand.

Chevron said on Tuesday two of its executives were arrested in Venezuela, a rare move likely to spook foreign energy firms still operating in the OPEC nation stricken by hyperinflation, shortages and crime. […]

I think the word is “kidnapped”.

The arrests highlight risks for foreign firms in Venezuela. Some insiders say a fracturing ruling elite is using the purge to wage turf wars or settle scores.


Venezuela arrests two Chevron executives amid oil purge

No surprise Venezuela has problems! You can bet that the CIA and others are working, from both inside and outside of the country, to screw over the government - as in "regime change."

OF course it would have nothing to do with the same failures which socialism always demonstrates.

But I will take your bet.

Provide some evidence.

To say "the same failures which socialism always demonstrates" only demonstrates that you do not know what is happening. The number one socialist organization in America is the numerous "farmer cooperatives", and they are going strong. The largest socialist corporation in the world is the Mondragon Corporation of Spain, and it has been going strong since the 1950s.

Wrong.

It is you lacking comprehension of what socialism means and you have failed to challenge what history conclusively demonstrates.

A coop is not socialist in nature as it is strictly voluntary. Socialism is applied through government force and is never voluntary which is the flaw in yourt premise and in your weak thinking.

About "A coop is not socialist in nature as it is strictly voluntary", it must be nice to be so smart, and yet, never have read the actual writings of Karl Marx. By Marx's definition, they are socialist. Plus, America's most noted Marxist economist, Richard Wolff, who has economics degrees from Harvard, Stanford, and Yale, also says they are socialist organizations.

Frankly, you are clueless! Read Marx, he was advocating bringing democracy to the workplace. As it is now, your boss is the dictator!

Wrong I have read Marx and understand him better and no they are not socialist at all. Coops are strictly voluntary.

they are voluntary and nothing about socialism is voluntary according to Marx which you clearly never read. Which proves you a liar.

Marx demanded dictatorship and despotism to impose the classless, egalitarian, socialist utopia he envisioned. He never once advocated democracy.

Sorry but the ploy you are trying is a failure which many people who defend Marx try to use and fail at ,

You are not better informed or enlightened about what he wrote and you are dead wrong as proven by his very writing.

A marxist economist is by definition a fool with no credibility so you are proven wrong by Marx.

 

[Soupnazi630]

No surprise Venezuela has problems! You can bet that the CIA and others are working, from both inside and outside of the country, to screw over the government - as in "regime change."

OF course it would have nothing to do with the same failures which socialism always demonstrates.

But I will take your bet.

Provide some evidence.

The almighty CIA that brings nations to it's knees.

Good thing the Soviets nor Chicoms never had a government agency to oppose capitalism in America!

About "The almighty CIA that brings nations to it's knees", you should read the article "The U.S. tried to change other countries’ governments 72 times during the Cold War."

Analysis | The U.S. tried to change other countries’ governments 72 times during the Cold War

When I have time sure but it is opinion only and is not evidence of the CIA causing the failure of socialism in Venezuela.

This thread is about the massive proven monstrosity and failure of socialism in Venezuela it is not about you whining about past misdeeds in other nations.

About "whining about past misdeeds in other nations", well, someone needs to write about them, because you seem to be blind to the truth.

Then start your own thread on them as this one is not about that,

This is about the truth of Venezuela which has nothing to do with what you are whining about.

Socialism is always a massive failure as venezuela has proven. You cannot distract from that by saying but ...but...but Reagan Death Squads.

 

[Soupnazi630]

No surprise Venezuela has problems! You can bet that the CIA and others are working, from both inside and outside of the country, to screw over the government - as in "regime change."

OF course it would have nothing to do with the same failures which socialism always demonstrates.

But I will take your bet.

Provide some evidence.

To say "the same failures which socialism always demonstrates" only demonstrates that you do not know what is happening. The number one socialist organization in America is the numerous "farmer cooperatives", and they are going strong. The largest socialist corporation in the world is the Mondragon Corporation of Spain, and it has been going strong since the 1950s.

Wrong.

It is you lacking comprehension of what socialism means and you have failed to challenge what history conclusively demonstrates.

A coop is not socialist in nature as it is strictly voluntary. Socialism is applied through government force and is never voluntary which is the flaw in yourt premise and in your weak thinking.

About "A coop is not socialist in nature as it is strictly voluntary", it must be nice to be so smart, and yet, never have read the actual writings of Karl Marx. By Marx's definition, they are socialist. Plus, America's most noted Marxist economist, Richard Wolff, who has economics degrees from Harvard, Stanford, and Yale, also says they are socialist organizations.

Frankly, you are clueless! Read Marx, he was advocating bringing democracy to the workplace. As it is now, your boss is the dictator!

Wrong I have read Marx and understand him better and no they are not socialist at all. Coops are strictly voluntary.

they are voluntary and nothing about socialism is voluntary according to Marx which you clearly never read. Which proves you a liar.

Marx demanded dictatorship and despotism to impose the classless, egalitarian, socialist utopia he envisioned.

A marxist economist is by definition a fool with no credibility so you are proven wrong by Marx.

Chavez and Maduro bear no responsibility of course

About "Chavez and Maduro bear no responsibility", all people and governments are responsible. Yet, America has never taken responsibility for what it has done in South and Central America. Or maybe you are proud of the way Reagan supported "death Squads" in Central America.

One has nothing to do with the other.

Provide evidence that CIA is attempting regime change in Venezuela.

Since you cannot your claim is childishly naive and the disaster in Venezuela is strictly the fault of their socialist dictatorship

First, the term "socialist dictatorship", at least according to Marx, is an oxymoron. About "Provide evidence that CIA is attempting regime change in Venezuela", I did and you missed it. But again, try the article "CIA chief hints agency is working to change Venezuelan government."

CIA chief hints agency is working to change Venezuelan government

Venezuela has already collapsed, and it is definitely time for regime change while there are still Venezuelan citizens who have not yet starved to death. You reached for a straw, and you missed.

About, "Venezuela has already collapsed, and it is definitely time for regime change", if it is time, the problem is America will not let the people of Venezuela decide for themselves. Why, because America wants American corporations to control the oil in that country. The people of Venezuela want public ownership of the oil so that the benefits can go to the country as a whole. America's capitalism finds that abhorrent!

And about, "Venezuelan citizens who have not yet starved to death", if they are starving, you should explain why we are adding to their misery with sanctions against the country. You should explain how the "Christian nation" that America calls itself has decided to kick these people when they are down.

Wrong.

The US has no opposition to the people of Venezuela choosing their own government. It is strictly the current regime which will not allow such democracy which is typical for socialism

 

[T.E.C. - Iowa]

Well, if you want to know "how does one change a foreign government", you can start with the article, "Kermit Roosevelt; Arranged Iran Coup", which is about Pres. Teddy Roosevelt's grandson Kermit, and what he did in Iran.

Kermit Roosevelt; Arranged Iran Coup

Ah, a single man overthrew a government.
How interesting to look at the world of a moonbat.

Your response of "Ah, a single man overthrew a government", is just a denial of history. And no, he did not do it by himself. He had lots of money from the US government!

Please get serious, and do not deny a historical event that can be found in numerous sources.

I assume the CIA who had the oil execs kidnapped by the Venezuelan government.

About "assume the CIA", you may assume whatever you like. Regarding "oil execs" and the "Venezuelan government", given the track record of exploitation and pollution from the oil companies, you should not assume the oil execs are some innocent nice guys. They are certainly not viewed that way in much in Central and South America.

They are far more innocent than the monstrous government of Venezuela

The government of Venezuela is not innocent. They have made serious mistakes. Yet, please answer! What kind of country are we when we try to kick them when they are down - as in sanctions?

 

[T.E.C. - Iowa]

No surprise Venezuela has problems! You can bet that the CIA and others are working, from both inside and outside of the country, to screw over the government - as in "regime change."

OF course it would have nothing to do with the same failures which socialism always demonstrates.

But I will take your bet.

Provide some evidence.

To say "the same failures which socialism always demonstrates" only demonstrates that you do not know what is happening. The number one socialist organization in America is the numerous "farmer cooperatives", and they are going strong. The largest socialist corporation in the world is the Mondragon Corporation of Spain, and it has been going strong since the 1950s.

Wrong.

It is you lacking comprehension of what socialism means and you have failed to challenge what history conclusively demonstrates.

A coop is not socialist in nature as it is strictly voluntary. Socialism is applied through government force and is never voluntary which is the flaw in yourt premise and in your weak thinking.

About "A coop is not socialist in nature as it is strictly voluntary", it must be nice to be so smart, and yet, never have read the actual writings of Karl Marx. By Marx's definition, they are socialist. Plus, America's most noted Marxist economist, Richard Wolff, who has economics degrees from Harvard, Stanford, and Yale, also says they are socialist organizations.

Frankly, you are clueless! Read Marx, he was advocating bringing democracy to the workplace. As it is now, your boss is the dictator!

Wrong I have read Marx and understand him better and no they are not socialist at all. Coops are strictly voluntary.

they are voluntary and nothing about socialism is voluntary according to Marx which you clearly never read. Which proves you a liar.

Marx demanded dictatorship and despotism to impose the classless, egalitarian, socialist utopia he envisioned. He never once advocated democracy.

Sorry but the ploy you are trying is a failure which many people who defend Marx try to use and fail at ,

You are not better informed or enlightened about what he wrote and you are dead wrong as proven by his very writing.

A marxist economist is by definition a fool with no credibility so you are proven wrong by Marx.

First, socialism may be voluntary - as in farmer coops - or they may be mandatory - as in Social Security.

About "Marx demanded dictatorship and despotism to impose", I challenge you to find a quote by Karl Marx that says this. You can't, because Marx wrote no such thing.

While you are looking for that quote, let me help you with a definition of socialism. This definition comes from economist Richard Wolff, the foremost Marxist economist in America. Notice, he called this the "Marxian framework."

(Quote from Prof. Wolff)

Socialism in the Marxian framework of analysis, refers to how production is organized. It means that the workers whose labor generates a surplus (an excess above what the workers themselves get back out of their output for their own consumption) are also identically the collective of persons who receive and distribute that surplus.

(End quote)

That clearly describes a farmer cooperative!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[T.E.C. - Iowa]

OF course it would have nothing to do with the same failures which socialism always demonstrates.

But I will take your bet.

Provide some evidence.

The almighty CIA that brings nations to it's knees.

Good thing the Soviets nor Chicoms never had a government agency to oppose capitalism in America!

About "The almighty CIA that brings nations to it's knees", you should read the article "The U.S. tried to change other countries’ governments 72 times during the Cold War."

Analysis | The U.S. tried to change other countries’ governments 72 times during the Cold War

When I have time sure but it is opinion only and is not evidence of the CIA causing the failure of socialism in Venezuela.

This thread is about the massive proven monstrosity and failure of socialism in Venezuela it is not about you whining about past misdeeds in other nations.

About "whining about past misdeeds in other nations", well, someone needs to write about them, because you seem to be blind to the truth.

Then start your own thread on them as this one is not about that,

This is about the truth of Venezuela which has nothing to do with what you are whining about.

Socialism is always a massive failure as venezuela has proven. You cannot distract from that by saying but ...but...but Reagan Death Squads.

If you do not like what I write, skip my posts! Beyond that, you do not run the board, and discussions, as they progress, do move into other areas of interest.

 

[T.E.C. - Iowa]

OF course it would have nothing to do with the same failures which socialism always demonstrates.

But I will take your bet.

Provide some evidence.

To say "the same failures which socialism always demonstrates" only demonstrates that you do not know what is happening. The number one socialist organization in America is the numerous "farmer cooperatives", and they are going strong. The largest socialist corporation in the world is the Mondragon Corporation of Spain, and it has been going strong since the 1950s.

Wrong.

It is you lacking comprehension of what socialism means and you have failed to challenge what history conclusively demonstrates.

A coop is not socialist in nature as it is strictly voluntary. Socialism is applied through government force and is never voluntary which is the flaw in yourt premise and in your weak thinking.

About "A coop is not socialist in nature as it is strictly voluntary", it must be nice to be so smart, and yet, never have read the actual writings of Karl Marx. By Marx's definition, they are socialist. Plus, America's most noted Marxist economist, Richard Wolff, who has economics degrees from Harvard, Stanford, and Yale, also says they are socialist organizations.

Frankly, you are clueless! Read Marx, he was advocating bringing democracy to the workplace. As it is now, your boss is the dictator!

Wrong I have read Marx and understand him better and no they are not socialist at all. Coops are strictly voluntary.

they are voluntary and nothing about socialism is voluntary according to Marx which you clearly never read. Which proves you a liar.

Marx demanded dictatorship and despotism to impose the classless, egalitarian, socialist utopia he envisioned.

A marxist economist is by definition a fool with no credibility so you are proven wrong by Marx.

About "Chavez and Maduro bear no responsibility", all people and governments are responsible. Yet, America has never taken responsibility for what it has done in South and Central America. Or maybe you are proud of the way Reagan supported "death Squads" in Central America.

One has nothing to do with the other.

Provide evidence that CIA is attempting regime change in Venezuela.

Since you cannot your claim is childishly naive and the disaster in Venezuela is strictly the fault of their socialist dictatorship

First, the term "socialist dictatorship", at least according to Marx, is an oxymoron. About "Provide evidence that CIA is attempting regime change in Venezuela", I did and you missed it. But again, try the article "CIA chief hints agency is working to change Venezuelan government."

CIA chief hints agency is working to change Venezuelan government

Venezuela has already collapsed, and it is definitely time for regime change while there are still Venezuelan citizens who have not yet starved to death. You reached for a straw, and you missed.

About, "Venezuela has already collapsed, and it is definitely time for regime change", if it is time, the problem is America will not let the people of Venezuela decide for themselves. Why, because America wants American corporations to control the oil in that country. The people of Venezuela want public ownership of the oil so that the benefits can go to the country as a whole. America's capitalism finds that abhorrent!

And about, "Venezuelan citizens who have not yet starved to death", if they are starving, you should explain why we are adding to their misery with sanctions against the country. You should explain how the "Christian nation" that America calls itself has decided to kick these people when they are down.

Wrong.

The US has no opposition to the people of Venezuela choosing their own government. It is strictly the current regime which will not allow such democracy which is typical for socialism

If you believe that US foreign policy is interested in the people of Venezuela choosing their own government, you know nothing of what the US has done in the last 50 years and more.

The following list is instances of the United States overthrowing, or attempting to overthrow, a foreign government since the Second World War. (* indicates successful ouster of a government)

China 1949 to early 1960s; Albania 1949-53; East Germany 1950s; Iran 1953 *; Guatemala 1954 *; Costa Rica mid-1950s; Syria 1956-7; Egypt 1957; Indonesia 1957-8; British Guiana 1953-64 *; Iraq 1963 *; North Vietnam 1945-73; Cambodia 1955-70 *; Laos 1958 *, 1959 *, 1960 *; Ecuador 1960-63 *; Congo 1960 *; France 1965; Brazil 1962-64 *; Dominican Republic 1963 *; Cuba 1959 to present; Bolivia 1964 *; Indonesia 1965 *; Ghana 1966 *; Chile 1964-73 *; Greece 1967 *; Costa Rica 1970-71; Bolivia 1971 *; Australia 1973-75 *; Angola 1975, 1980s; Zaire 1975; Portugal 1974-76 *; Jamaica 1976-80 *; Seychelles 1979-81; Chad 1981-82 *; Grenada 1983 *; South Yemen 1982-84; Suriname 1982-84; Fiji 1987 *; Libya 1980s; Nicaragua 1981-90 *; Panama 1989 *; Bulgaria 1990 *; Albania 1991 *' Iraq 1991; Afghanistan 1980s *; Somalia 1993; Yugoslavia 1999-2000 *; Ecuador 2000 *; Afghanistan 2001 *; Venezuela 2002 *; Iraq 2003 *; Haiti 2004 *; Somalia 2007 to present; Honduras 2009 *; Libya 2011 *; Syria 2012; Ukraine 2014 *

 

[depotoo]

Yeah, I would love to know where he has /is going to school so parents can be forewarned.

Yes, Venezuela would be a workers paradise but for America.

Standard socialist excuse #2: "it's not our fault, its country X trying to ruin us!"

Are you saying the CIA in not in Venezuela trying to screw things over?

I'm saying the Venezuelans are more than capable of screwing themselves.

The CIA had better have people there, or they are not doing their jobs.

About "the Venezuelans are more than capable of screwing themselves", oh I get it. You think these people are incapable of making their own decisions and deciding for themselves what their future should be. That is, you don't believe in democracy for others. So, America steps in and steals their resources.

Do they currently have a functioning democratic republic down there?

Yes or no?

My god are some moron college student being spoon fed garbage from some lefty professor?

 

[depotoo]

Oh, my! You have really been fed a lot of crumb, my dear.

Some pictures of our great depression due to capitalism run amuck. Happens often but the capitalists always get a bailout from the government they profess to hate.

pictures of depression era america - Google Search:

The Depression was a worldwide event, dufus, affecting every form of government on the planet.

Your ignorance is amazing.

Yes, the depression was worldwide, because capitalism was world wide!

After the 1929 crash, Roosevelt regulated the economy - as in the Glass-Steagall Act. The rich hated the regulations and set about undoing the regulations. Fast forward to 2008, and unregulated capitalism crashes the economy - and again, it was a worldwide crash!

 

[Soupnazi630]

OF course it would have nothing to do with the same failures which socialism always demonstrates.

But I will take your bet.

Provide some evidence.

To say "the same failures which socialism always demonstrates" only demonstrates that you do not know what is happening. The number one socialist organization in America is the numerous "farmer cooperatives", and they are going strong. The largest socialist corporation in the world is the Mondragon Corporation of Spain, and it has been going strong since the 1950s.

Wrong.

It is you lacking comprehension of what socialism means and you have failed to challenge what history conclusively demonstrates.

A coop is not socialist in nature as it is strictly voluntary. Socialism is applied through government force and is never voluntary which is the flaw in yourt premise and in your weak thinking.

About "A coop is not socialist in nature as it is strictly voluntary", it must be nice to be so smart, and yet, never have read the actual writings of Karl Marx. By Marx's definition, they are socialist. Plus, America's most noted Marxist economist, Richard Wolff, who has economics degrees from Harvard, Stanford, and Yale, also says they are socialist organizations.

Frankly, you are clueless! Read Marx, he was advocating bringing democracy to the workplace. As it is now, your boss is the dictator!

Wrong I have read Marx and understand him better and no they are not socialist at all. Coops are strictly voluntary.

they are voluntary and nothing about socialism is voluntary according to Marx which you clearly never read. Which proves you a liar.

Marx demanded dictatorship and despotism to impose the classless, egalitarian, socialist utopia he envisioned. He never once advocated democracy.

Sorry but the ploy you are trying is a failure which many people who defend Marx try to use and fail at ,

You are not better informed or enlightened about what he wrote and you are dead wrong as proven by his very writing.

A marxist economist is by definition a fool with no credibility so you are proven wrong by Marx.

First, socialism may be voluntary - as in farmer coops - or they may be mandatory - as in Social Security.

About "Marx demanded dictatorship and despotism to impose", I challenge you to find a quote by Karl Marx that says this. You can't, because Marx wrote no such thing.

While you are looking for that quote, let me help you with a definition of socialism. This definition comes from economist Richard Wolff, the foremost Marxist economist in America. Notice, he called this the "Marxian framework."

(Quote from Prof. Wolff)

Socialism in the Marxian framework of analysis, refers to how production is organized. It means that the workers whose labor generates a surplus (an excess above what the workers themselves get back out of their output for their own consumption) are also identically the collective of persons who receive and distribute that surplus.

(End quote)

That clearly describes a farmer cooperative!!!!!!!!!!!

You already quoted Wolff and as i pointed out he is a fool as is any marxist ECONOMIST which is in fact a contradiction.

He is wrong and there is no if and or but. Socialism is strictly and always about government violence and force it is NEVER voluntary like a cooperative.

Marx clearly and explicitly described the necessity and inevitability of the DICTATORSHIP of the proletariat. He meant dictatorship with of the horrors which accompany it. Hanging the words " of the proletariat after the word dictatorship does not clean it up or make it benign.

His stupidity stems from the idiotic claim that the state ( dictatorship of the proletariat ) would fade away when no longer needed to be replaced by a stateless classless society. Which of course is ludicrous as a dictatorship of the proletariat will fight and kill to remain in power like any other dictatorship.

You know he said it you merely ignore it and that is one specific quote proving you wrong.

Another one is directly from the communist manifesto referring to his vision and it states as follows " Of course, in the beginning, this cannot be effected except by means of DESPOTIC inroads ".

So you are now schooled and proven ignorant for claiming I could not provide any such quote. Go hit the books as you are ignorant of the disgusting dead beat pig Marx and what he wrote.

Socialism is never voluntary and coops are not examples of socialism.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Oh, my! You have really been fed a lot of crumb, my dear.

Some pictures of our great depression due to capitalism run amuck. Happens often but the capitalists always get a bailout from the government they profess to hate.

pictures of depression era america - Google Search:

The Depression was a worldwide event, dufus, affecting every form of government on the planet.

Your ignorance is amazing.

Yes, the depression was worldwide, because capitalism was world wide!

After the 1929 crash, Roosevelt regulated the economy - as in the Glass-Steagall Act. The rich hated the regulations and set about undoing the regulations. Fast forward to 2008, and unregulated capitalism crashes the economy - and again, it was a worldwide crash!

The Dufus unwittingly acknowledged that America is THE world economy and all of the socialist nations are subservient.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Ah, a single man overthrew a government.
How interesting to look at the world of a moonbat.

Your response of "Ah, a single man overthrew a government", is just a denial of history. And no, he did not do it by himself. He had lots of money from the US government!

Please get serious, and do not deny a historical event that can be found in numerous sources.

I assume the CIA who had the oil execs kidnapped by the Venezuelan government.

About "assume the CIA", you may assume whatever you like. Regarding "oil execs" and the "Venezuelan government", given the track record of exploitation and pollution from the oil companies, you should not assume the oil execs are some innocent nice guys. They are certainly not viewed that way in much in Central and South America.

They are far more innocent than the monstrous government of Venezuela

The government of Venezuela is not innocent. They have made serious mistakes. Yet, please answer! What kind of country are we when we try to kick them when they are down - as in sanctions?

They have not made serious mistakes they are solely and exclusively responsible for the destruction of a nation and the US has done nothing to harm them.

 

[Soupnazi630]

The almighty CIA that brings nations to it's knees.

Good thing the Soviets nor Chicoms never had a government agency to oppose capitalism in America!

About "The almighty CIA that brings nations to it's knees", you should read the article "The U.S. tried to change other countries’ governments 72 times during the Cold War."

Analysis | The U.S. tried to change other countries’ governments 72 times during the Cold War

When I have time sure but it is opinion only and is not evidence of the CIA causing the failure of socialism in Venezuela.

This thread is about the massive proven monstrosity and failure of socialism in Venezuela it is not about you whining about past misdeeds in other nations.

About "whining about past misdeeds in other nations", well, someone needs to write about them, because you seem to be blind to the truth.

Then start your own thread on them as this one is not about that,

This is about the truth of Venezuela which has nothing to do with what you are whining about.

Socialism is always a massive failure as venezuela has proven. You cannot distract from that by saying but ...but...but Reagan Death Squads.

If you do not like what I write, skip my posts! Beyond that, you do not run the board, and discussions, as they progress, do move into other areas of interest.

Wrong stick to the topic and do not try to derail to defend your failed ideology.

 

[Soupnazi630]

To say "the same failures which socialism always demonstrates" only demonstrates that you do not know what is happening. The number one socialist organization in America is the numerous "farmer cooperatives", and they are going strong. The largest socialist corporation in the world is the Mondragon Corporation of Spain, and it has been going strong since the 1950s.

Wrong.

It is you lacking comprehension of what socialism means and you have failed to challenge what history conclusively demonstrates.

A coop is not socialist in nature as it is strictly voluntary. Socialism is applied through government force and is never voluntary which is the flaw in yourt premise and in your weak thinking.

About "A coop is not socialist in nature as it is strictly voluntary", it must be nice to be so smart, and yet, never have read the actual writings of Karl Marx. By Marx's definition, they are socialist. Plus, America's most noted Marxist economist, Richard Wolff, who has economics degrees from Harvard, Stanford, and Yale, also says they are socialist organizations.

Frankly, you are clueless! Read Marx, he was advocating bringing democracy to the workplace. As it is now, your boss is the dictator!

Wrong I have read Marx and understand him better and no they are not socialist at all. Coops are strictly voluntary.

they are voluntary and nothing about socialism is voluntary according to Marx which you clearly never read. Which proves you a liar.

Marx demanded dictatorship and despotism to impose the classless, egalitarian, socialist utopia he envisioned.

A marxist economist is by definition a fool with no credibility so you are proven wrong by Marx.

One has nothing to do with the other.

Provide evidence that CIA is attempting regime change in Venezuela.

Since you cannot your claim is childishly naive and the disaster in Venezuela is strictly the fault of their socialist dictatorship

First, the term "socialist dictatorship", at least according to Marx, is an oxymoron. About "Provide evidence that CIA is attempting regime change in Venezuela", I did and you missed it. But again, try the article "CIA chief hints agency is working to change Venezuelan government."

CIA chief hints agency is working to change Venezuelan government

Venezuela has already collapsed, and it is definitely time for regime change while there are still Venezuelan citizens who have not yet starved to death. You reached for a straw, and you missed.

About, "Venezuela has already collapsed, and it is definitely time for regime change", if it is time, the problem is America will not let the people of Venezuela decide for themselves. Why, because America wants American corporations to control the oil in that country. The people of Venezuela want public ownership of the oil so that the benefits can go to the country as a whole. America's capitalism finds that abhorrent!

And about, "Venezuelan citizens who have not yet starved to death", if they are starving, you should explain why we are adding to their misery with sanctions against the country. You should explain how the "Christian nation" that America calls itself has decided to kick these people when they are down.

Wrong.

The US has no opposition to the people of Venezuela choosing their own government. It is strictly the current regime which will not allow such democracy which is typical for socialism

If you believe that US foreign policy is interested in the people of Venezuela choosing their own government, you know nothing of what the US has done in the last 50 years and more.

The following list is instances of the United States overthrowing, or attempting to overthrow, a foreign government since the Second World War. (* indicates successful ouster of a government)

China 1949 to early 1960s; Albania 1949-53; East Germany 1950s; Iran 1953 *; Guatemala 1954 *; Costa Rica mid-1950s; Syria 1956-7; Egypt 1957; Indonesia 1957-8; British Guiana 1953-64 *; Iraq 1963 *; North Vietnam 1945-73; Cambodia 1955-70 *; Laos 1958 *, 1959 *, 1960 *; Ecuador 1960-63 *; Congo 1960 *; France 1965; Brazil 1962-64 *; Dominican Republic 1963 *; Cuba 1959 to present; Bolivia 1964 *; Indonesia 1965 *; Ghana 1966 *; Chile 1964-73 *; Greece 1967 *; Costa Rica 1970-71; Bolivia 1971 *; Australia 1973-75 *; Angola 1975, 1980s; Zaire 1975; Portugal 1974-76 *; Jamaica 1976-80 *; Seychelles 1979-81; Chad 1981-82 *; Grenada 1983 *; South Yemen 1982-84; Suriname 1982-84; Fiji 1987 *; Libya 1980s; Nicaragua 1981-90 *; Panama 1989 *; Bulgaria 1990 *; Albania 1991 *' Iraq 1991; Afghanistan 1980s *; Somalia 1993; Yugoslavia 1999-2000 *; Ecuador 2000 *; Afghanistan 2001 *; Venezuela 2002 *; Iraq 2003 *; Haiti 2004 *; Somalia 2007 to present; Honduras 2009 *; Libya 2011 *; Syria 2012; Ukraine 2014 *

Massive fail as you provide no evidence that the US trying to thwart the people of Venezuela from choosing their own government.

The socialist dictatorship of Venezuela is the one preventing it.

your list is largely fiction and irrelevant to the discussion. Stating something happens in the past does not prove it is happening now so provide evidence or shut up and leave.

 

[Weatherman2020]

OF course it would have nothing to do with the same failures which socialism always demonstrates.

But I will take your bet.

Provide some evidence.

To say "the same failures which socialism always demonstrates" only demonstrates that you do not know what is happening. The number one socialist organization in America is the numerous "farmer cooperatives", and they are going strong. The largest socialist corporation in the world is the Mondragon Corporation of Spain, and it has been going strong since the 1950s.

Wrong.

It is you lacking comprehension of what socialism means and you have failed to challenge what history conclusively demonstrates.

A coop is not socialist in nature as it is strictly voluntary. Socialism is applied through government force and is never voluntary which is the flaw in yourt premise and in your weak thinking.

About "A coop is not socialist in nature as it is strictly voluntary", it must be nice to be so smart, and yet, never have read the actual writings of Karl Marx. By Marx's definition, they are socialist. Plus, America's most noted Marxist economist, Richard Wolff, who has economics degrees from Harvard, Stanford, and Yale, also says they are socialist organizations.

Frankly, you are clueless! Read Marx, he was advocating bringing democracy to the workplace. As it is now, your boss is the dictator!

Wrong I have read Marx and understand him better and no they are not socialist at all. Coops are strictly voluntary.

they are voluntary and nothing about socialism is voluntary according to Marx which you clearly never read. Which proves you a liar.

Marx demanded dictatorship and despotism to impose the classless, egalitarian, socialist utopia he envisioned. He never once advocated democracy.

Sorry but the ploy you are trying is a failure which many people who defend Marx try to use and fail at ,

You are not better informed or enlightened about what he wrote and you are dead wrong as proven by his very writing.

A marxist economist is by definition a fool with no credibility so you are proven wrong by Marx.

First, socialism may be voluntary - as in farmer coops - or they may be mandatory - as in Social Security.

About "Marx demanded dictatorship and despotism to impose", I challenge you to find a quote by Karl Marx that says this. You can't, because Marx wrote no such thing.

While you are looking for that quote, let me help you with a definition of socialism. This definition comes from economist Richard Wolff, the foremost Marxist economist in America. Notice, he called this the "Marxian framework."

(Quote from Prof. Wolff)

Socialism in the Marxian framework of analysis, refers to how production is organized. It means that the workers whose labor generates a surplus (an excess above what the workers themselves get back out of their output for their own consumption) are also identically the collective of persons who receive and distribute that surplus.

(End quote)

That clearly describes a farmer cooperative!!!!!!!!!!!

So tell the class what socialist nations are famous for contributing to civilization.

Capitalism has electricity, the light bulb, cars, trains, walking on the moon, planes, recording of music, telephones, radio, supersonic flight, and almost every medical breakthrough.

What have socialist nations provided? Besides radioactive lakes?

 

[Soupnazi630]

To say "the same failures which socialism always demonstrates" only demonstrates that you do not know what is happening. The number one socialist organization in America is the numerous "farmer cooperatives", and they are going strong. The largest socialist corporation in the world is the Mondragon Corporation of Spain, and it has been going strong since the 1950s.

Wrong.

It is you lacking comprehension of what socialism means and you have failed to challenge what history conclusively demonstrates.

A coop is not socialist in nature as it is strictly voluntary. Socialism is applied through government force and is never voluntary which is the flaw in yourt premise and in your weak thinking.

About "A coop is not socialist in nature as it is strictly voluntary", it must be nice to be so smart, and yet, never have read the actual writings of Karl Marx. By Marx's definition, they are socialist. Plus, America's most noted Marxist economist, Richard Wolff, who has economics degrees from Harvard, Stanford, and Yale, also says they are socialist organizations.

Frankly, you are clueless! Read Marx, he was advocating bringing democracy to the workplace. As it is now, your boss is the dictator!

Wrong I have read Marx and understand him better and no they are not socialist at all. Coops are strictly voluntary.

they are voluntary and nothing about socialism is voluntary according to Marx which you clearly never read. Which proves you a liar.

Marx demanded dictatorship and despotism to impose the classless, egalitarian, socialist utopia he envisioned. He never once advocated democracy.

Sorry but the ploy you are trying is a failure which many people who defend Marx try to use and fail at ,

You are not better informed or enlightened about what he wrote and you are dead wrong as proven by his very writing.

A marxist economist is by definition a fool with no credibility so you are proven wrong by Marx.

First, socialism may be voluntary - as in farmer coops - or they may be mandatory - as in Social Security.

About "Marx demanded dictatorship and despotism to impose", I challenge you to find a quote by Karl Marx that says this. You can't, because Marx wrote no such thing.

While you are looking for that quote, let me help you with a definition of socialism. This definition comes from economist Richard Wolff, the foremost Marxist economist in America. Notice, he called this the "Marxian framework."

(Quote from Prof. Wolff)

Socialism in the Marxian framework of analysis, refers to how production is organized. It means that the workers whose labor generates a surplus (an excess above what the workers themselves get back out of their output for their own consumption) are also identically the collective of persons who receive and distribute that surplus.

(End quote)

That clearly describes a farmer cooperative!!!!!!!!!!!

So tell the class what socialist nations are famous for contributing to civilization.

Capitalism has electricity, the light bulb, cars, trains, walking on the moon, planes, recording of music, telephones, radio, supersonic flight.

What have socialist nations provided? Besides radioactive lakes?

The AK47