Kucinich Ready To Go After The Federal Reserve!

[manu1959]

Kucinich is right sometimes. He was against the bailouts for the banks, but then turned around and voted for the auto-bailouts. I personally don't see the logic behind picking and choosing which failed business you attempt to prop up by stealing from the private sector, but there you have it.

lets see....he is from ohio.....which has how many industries that feed off the auto industry......

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Kucinich is right sometimes. He was against the bailouts for the banks, but then turned around and voted for the auto-bailouts. I personally don't see the logic behind picking and choosing which failed business you attempt to prop up by stealing from the private sector, but there you have it.

lets see....he is from ohio.....which has how many industries that feed off the auto industry......

I'm from Ohio and didn't support bailing out the auto-industry. Location doesn't trump economics, bailing out failed businesses can only cause problems.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Please Sealy.

I've seen that dcoumentary. I probably saw it before you'd even heard of it. It doesn't prove anything. It merely causes one to question things. That's all ANY of those documentaries are good for. Their job is to open your mind and get you to ask questions, and hopefully look around for your own answers and stop listening to the TV and the newspaper. It obviously hasn't worked on you, because you fell for Obama. You differentiate between what you perceive as favorable and unfavorable media coverage, when in reality, media coverage like Obama got for 2 straight years was nothing short of favorable. His name was planted into your mind everyday. If you forgot about him on Tuesday, they reminded you again on Wednesday. If you forgot by Saturday night because you got drunk that night, they reminded you again on Sunday. They said good things, bad things, neutral things. But in the end, they COVERED him, and that's all that matters. They implanted him into your conscious and your subconscious, and you fell for it. You'd have either picked him, or Hillary. And either way, the establishment would have gotten what it wanted.

The sooner you quit listening to the MSM, the better off you'll be.

The documentary PROVES without a shadow of a doubt that what I am telling you is true. He explains it all and you can not argue with what he is saying. And the IRS's only reply is that it's the law because they say it is the law. If that's good enough for you, then you are a typical sheep.

"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country.
A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit.
Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation,
therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men.
We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely
controlled and dominated governments in the civilized world.
No longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by
conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by
the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men."

Are you a banker or IRS official? Then why do you not believe this? I'm going to watch it again tonight and take real good notes. But please, tell me why you think the Fed and Income tax are legal and constitutional, and I'll be ready to reply tomorrow.

And if you watched it long ago, watch it again. Makes even more sense now after seeing the Fed bail out AIG without any Congressional approval.

So how powerful are these bankers? And how can they bailout AIG without approval? The documentary explains, so watch it again.

Our founding fathers warned us, yet we allowed it. The President at the time (wilson), admitted it, yet you ignore him. And Ron Paul admits it, yet you ignore him too.

And you saw what they did to Dr. Paul when he spoke up. They made him IRRELIVENT!!!

I don't like libertarians, except for this one thing.

sealy, I agree with you completely about the Federal Reserve. It is unconstitutional and it needs to go. I agree with you half-way on the income tax. Our founding fathers never would have stood for it, and neither should we. However, it is not unconstitutional. The 16th Amendment is essentially a part of the Constitution. Part of the Constitution cannot be unconstitutional. You might as well argue that Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution is unconstitutional.

 

[sealybobo]

Please Sealy.

I've seen that dcoumentary. I probably saw it before you'd even heard of it. It doesn't prove anything. It merely causes one to question things. That's all ANY of those documentaries are good for. Their job is to open your mind and get you to ask questions, and hopefully look around for your own answers and stop listening to the TV and the newspaper. It obviously hasn't worked on you, because you fell for Obama. You differentiate between what you perceive as favorable and unfavorable media coverage, when in reality, media coverage like Obama got for 2 straight years was nothing short of favorable. His name was planted into your mind everyday. If you forgot about him on Tuesday, they reminded you again on Wednesday. If you forgot by Saturday night because you got drunk that night, they reminded you again on Sunday. They said good things, bad things, neutral things. But in the end, they COVERED him, and that's all that matters. They implanted him into your conscious and your subconscious, and you fell for it. You'd have either picked him, or Hillary. And either way, the establishment would have gotten what it wanted.

The sooner you quit listening to the MSM, the better off you'll be.

The documentary PROVES without a shadow of a doubt that what I am telling you is true. He explains it all and you can not argue with what he is saying. And the IRS's only reply is that it's the law because they say it is the law. If that's good enough for you, then you are a typical sheep.

"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country.
A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit.
Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation,
therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men.
We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely
controlled and dominated governments in the civilized world.
No longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by
conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by
the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men."

Are you a banker or IRS official? Then why do you not believe this? I'm going to watch it again tonight and take real good notes. But please, tell me why you think the Fed and Income tax are legal and constitutional, and I'll be ready to reply tomorrow.

And if you watched it long ago, watch it again. Makes even more sense now after seeing the Fed bail out AIG without any Congressional approval.

So how powerful are these bankers? And how can they bailout AIG without approval? The documentary explains, so watch it again.

Our founding fathers warned us, yet we allowed it. The President at the time (wilson), admitted it, yet you ignore him. And Ron Paul admits it, yet you ignore him too.

And you saw what they did to Dr. Paul when he spoke up. They made him IRRELIVENT!!!

I don't like libertarians, except for this one thing.

sealy, I agree with you completely about the Federal Reserve. It is unconstitutional and it needs to go. I agree with you half-way on the income tax. Our founding fathers never would have stood for it, and neither should we. However, it is not unconstitutional. The 16th Amendment is essentially a part of the Constitution. Part of the Constitution cannot be unconstitutional. You might as well argue that Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution is unconstitutional.

I will watch the dvd again tonight and have the answer you seek. The host interviewed a former irs boss who was then working at a prestegous law firm. The guy was happy to take the interview because he didn't know what was going to be asked. He was cocky.

They went round and round and basically he told Aaron Russo that

1. The lower courts can ignore what the Supreme Court's decision was.
2. It say voluntary participation, so if you actually dug and found the rule, it wouldn't say you must. The IRS guy said, "most people stop at a red light at 2am even if there are no other cars, so they voluntarily comply. But that isn't true, because the law says you MUST stop at a red, not volunteer. But the IRS says voluntary comply.
3. He said the law was the law because we say it is the law. That is the kind of answer you get if you live in China, not America.

Seriously, I guarantee that if you watch this dvd. If you somehow get your hands on it and see it, you will become the biggest advocate, because you already know more than I do.

4. The Supreme Court ruled the Fed Reserve Act/16th amendment did not give Congress new taxation powers. You'll learn about this in the dvd.

I am going to re-watch freedom to fascims and take good notes. But still you need to see this for yourself. Anyone who hasn't seen this is under informed. Because there isn't another documentary like it. Not that I know of. I'm sure there is, but this is the best seller of them all.

An award winning director, Aaron Russo. Not some nut. But they'll tell you he's nuts, just like they did Ron Paul and Dennis Kucenich. They aren't nuts, we are, for not hearing the truth. But how do you beat the right wing media? In this dvd, they'll explain how the media isn't liberal. They'll also explain that the democrats are in on it too. And the only way we can change this is to tell Congress to end this. But instead we believe the media when they say Paul and Kucenich are nuts.

If you see all the facts, you will have no doubt the bankers took over the USA in 1913. If you know the history, they'd been trying for over 100 years. They just finally succeeded. And today they are trying to take over the world. I have no doubt they crashed today's economy, just like they did during the Great Depression. The Robber Baron's are back.

If you want to know who we mean when we say, "THEY" are ruining this country. Or "they" made gas prices go up to $4? Watch this DVD. It explains everything.

You can see bits and pieces on Utube, but really you got to see the whole thing.

 

[sealybobo]

Kucinich is right sometimes. He was against the bailouts for the banks, but then turned around and voted for the auto-bailouts. I personally don't see the logic behind picking and choosing which failed business you attempt to prop up by stealing from the private sector, but there you have it.

lets see....he is from ohio.....which has how many industries that feed off the auto industry......

It doesn't matter. I'm for the stimulous too. And we had to bail out the banks. They own this country. That's what this thread is all about. Don't you get it? They made Bush ask for $750 billion or else they would take down the economy.

Do you think they have too much power?

Well this dvd explains that Jefferson didn't just fear big government, he also worried about corporations and bankers. But they don't tell you that, do they. This dvd has many quotes from Jefferson and other great Americans who knew and would say the income tax/federal reserve system is a scam.

Here was a Henry Ford quote: "I think it is good the average person doesn't understand our banking system, for if they did I am certain there would be revolution by morning".

I hate to keep saying it, but this dvd will show you many quotes from many great americans. And many credible REAL politicians interviewed who admit the FEd is a scam. But the vast majority of our politicians won't admit it, because the vast majority of US don't know it is true.

 

[manu1959]

Kucinich is right sometimes. He was against the bailouts for the banks, but then turned around and voted for the auto-bailouts. I personally don't see the logic behind picking and choosing which failed business you attempt to prop up by stealing from the private sector, but there you have it.

lets see....he is from ohio.....which has how many industries that feed off the auto industry......

It doesn't matter. I'm for the stimulous too. And we had to bail out the banks. They own this country. That's what this thread is all about. Don't you get it? They made Bush ask for $750 billion or else they would take down the economy.

Do you think they have too much power?

Well this dvd explains that Jefferson didn't just fear big government, he also worried about corporations and bankers. But they don't tell you that, do they. This dvd has many quotes from Jefferson and other great Americans who knew and would say the income tax/federal reserve system is a scam.

Here was a Henry Ford quote: "I think it is good the average person doesn't understand our banking system, for if they did I am certain there would be revolution by morning".

I hate to keep saying it, but this dvd will show you many quotes from many great americans. And many credible REAL politicians interviewed who admit the FEd is a scam. But the vast majority of our politicians won't admit it, because the vast majority of US don't know it is true.

let em tank......start over......it isn't like we will all die....

 

[sealybobo]

lets see....he is from ohio.....which has how many industries that feed off the auto industry......

It doesn't matter. I'm for the stimulous too. And we had to bail out the banks. They own this country. That's what this thread is all about. Don't you get it? They made Bush ask for $750 billion or else they would take down the economy.

Do you think they have too much power?

Well this dvd explains that Jefferson didn't just fear big government, he also worried about corporations and bankers. But they don't tell you that, do they. This dvd has many quotes from Jefferson and other great Americans who knew and would say the income tax/federal reserve system is a scam.

Here was a Henry Ford quote: "I think it is good the average person doesn't understand our banking system, for if they did I am certain there would be revolution by morning".

I hate to keep saying it, but this dvd will show you many quotes from many great americans. And many credible REAL politicians interviewed who admit the FEd is a scam. But the vast majority of our politicians won't admit it, because the vast majority of US don't know it is true.

let em tank......start over......it isn't like we will all die....

But everytime "we" tank, they get richer. They consolidate power. They bail themselves out with $750. They pass laws giving their corporations more tax breaks and putting the tax burden more on you.

So they come out owning us even more than they did before.

There is a quote you'll see on Freedom to Fascism from a rich guy saying, "bankruptsy for the rich is when you put all your money in your coat and give the government your pants".

Yet Clinton made it harder for us to file bankruptsy, and at the same time allowed CC companies to charge over 20% interest?

Doesn't sound very liberal to me.

And if I hear one more person say the media is liberal, I'm going to scream.

This video says, "call you rep's and tell them to abolish the Fed & IRS

AND, stop being good democrats and stop being good republicans.

It is time to unite and take this country back.

We all know the tax system is a scam. The government spends more than it makes, they can't tell us where the income tax goes. Oh they can say that it pays for this and that, but really, all it pays is SOME of the interest on the national debt. So the more we own, the less chance we'll ever pay it back, and nothing ever changes.

Will Obama do something about it? Will Pelosi or Reed? Maybe if enough of us wake up and tell them to.

Ron Paul and Dennis Kucenich are ready for you to wake up.

Yet no one is even talking about this. We are sheep. Eventually I'll give up too.

 

[sealybobo]

Hey Average Joe. Can you answer why it is not enough that Congress passed the 13th amendment?

 

[sealybobo]

Not enough states ratified the 16th amendment. Is that right? That's why it is not legal.

Also, show me the law. Look it up and show it to me. Or show it to yourself. Bet you can't find it.

 

[Paulie]

You crack me up Sealy. You argue that the IRS is illegal because a documentary told you, but you're about as liberal as they come. How do you plan on paying for all the crap you want to spend money on, without the income tax?

Better yet, how do you recognize the IRS is illegal, but don't recognize universal healthcare as unconstitutional? There's a part right in the constitution that clearly identifies the income tax. Nowhere in the constitution does it mention ANY of the new spending you advocate.

You're a mess.

 

[indago]

The Supreme court said income tax is unconstitutional

Where did the Supreme Court say this?

They said it in the 1800's and then said in 1913 that the Federal Reserve Act gave congress no new taxing power.

Not so, and you haven't shown where this was written by the Supreme Court.

And the dvd will explain this in great detail. It will explain direct vs indirect taxes, and the income tax is neither.

I really doubt that "the dvd will explain this", because it's not true. If the dvd does try to explain it, then there is no credence to the dvd.

The Solicitor General for the government, in an amicus curiae brief, had made the argument: "The Sixteenth Amendment removed the restriction of apportionment as to such income taxes as before were subject thereto." The Court, in their opinion, in which there was no dissent, and noting this "confusion", declared this to be an "erroneous assumption" on the part of the government, and "wholly without foundation". The Court declared that "it was settled that the provisions of the Sixteenth Amendment conferred no new power of taxation"; and that the amendment simply prohibited the income tax from being taken from the category of indirect taxation, and being placed into the category of a direct tax.

It was also explained that the Congress of the United States had no intention of destroying the two great classes of taxation by the wording of the Sixteenth Amendment, but placed an income tax into the category of taxation in which it inherently belonged; the indirect class, or excise, and because the tax is not apportioned, nor subject to the census or enumeration, it is an excise tax, a tax upon the exercise of privileges, such taxes not being subject to the condition of apportionment to the States.

Will the subterfuge and deceit never end...



-

 

[editec]

Sealy, how do you read about the Rothschilds, the so-called unconstitutional income tax, the banking "conspiracy", etc...but vote for Obama as though somehow he's not owned by all the people you've been reading about?

Oh ouch!

You think the media handed him the presidency the way they did because they felt like doing something nice?

Be careful now...you're drifting into conspiracy theory territory, and you are old enough to know by now that no matter how evident a conspiracy might actuallyto anyone who bothers to look deeply into events, NONE DARE CALL IT CONSPIRACY.

You got fooled. The sooner you admit it, the better off you'll be. You're riding on hope that doesn't exist. There's no "hope" when you let the US media decide things for you. That's how the establishment has the kind of control they have. They have the media in their pockets.

Well, in Sealy's defence, people voting for either candidate were fooled, weren't they?

In fact people have been fooled by the goodcop/bad cop game for decades now, so picking on Sealy doesn't seem exactly fair, now, does it?

 

[sealybobo]

Sealy, how do you read about the Rothschilds, the so-called unconstitutional income tax, the banking "conspiracy", etc...but vote for Obama as though somehow he's not owned by all the people you've been reading about?

Oh ouch!

You think the media handed him the presidency the way they did because they felt like doing something nice?

Be careful now...you're drifting into conspiracy theory territory, and you are old enough to know by now that no matter how evident a conspiracy might actuallyto anyone who bothers to look deeply into events, NONE DARE CALL IT CONSPIRACY.

You got fooled. The sooner you admit it, the better off you'll be. You're riding on hope that doesn't exist. There's no "hope" when you let the US media decide things for you. That's how the establishment has the kind of control they have. They have the media in their pockets.

Well, in Sealy's defence, people voting for either candidate were fooled, weren't they?

In fact people have been fooled by the goodcop/bad cop game for decades now, so picking on Sealy doesn't seem exactly fair, now, does it?

Again, why would/should Obama or Pelosi or Reed undo the Federal Reserve? Do you want them to? Have you called them? Are you the only one to call them?

Watch Freedom to Fascism. In it he says, "stop being good little democrats and republicans.

And I know for a fact, no matter what, the GOP is not the party to fix this problem, because the GOP is not the party of the people. Only the rich people. And its the rich people who want the Federal Reserve to stay.

But the Dems won't do anything about it until their constituents tell them to. Dennis Kucenich has the balls, and the media made him out to be a nut. Ron Paul has the courage, and they painted him as a racist nut.

I'd vote for Ron Paul. The problem is, he's in the wrong party. Why is he? Because he knows that to get anything done, you have to be in one of the two parties.

I bet the Democrats would do something if we all called them. Are you ready to call your rep? I'll call mine right now.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

If calling your Representative did anything then my former Republican Congressman would not have voted for the $700 billion bailout, and my new Democrat Congressman would not have voted for this $819 billion "stimulus." The Fed has the Democrats and Republicans under their thumb, sealy. You need to realize there is little difference between the Republicrats.

 

[sealybobo]

Where did the Supreme Court say this?

They said it in the 1800's and then said in 1913 that the Federal Reserve Act gave congress no new taxing power.

Not so, and you haven't shown where this was written by the Supreme Court.

And the dvd will explain this in great detail. It will explain direct vs indirect taxes, and the income tax is neither.

I really doubt that "the dvd will explain this", because it's not true. If the dvd does try to explain it, then there is no credence to the dvd.

The Solicitor General for the government, in an amicus curiae brief, had made the argument: "The Sixteenth Amendment removed the restriction of apportionment as to such income taxes as before were subject thereto." The Court, in their opinion, in which there was no dissent, and noting this "confusion", declared this to be an "erroneous assumption" on the part of the government, and "wholly without foundation". The Court declared that "it was settled that the provisions of the Sixteenth Amendment conferred no new power of taxation"; and that the amendment simply prohibited the income tax from being taken from the category of indirect taxation, and being placed into the category of a direct tax.

It was also explained that the Congress of the United States had no intention of destroying the two great classes of taxation by the wording of the Sixteenth Amendment, but placed an income tax into the category of taxation in which it inherently belonged; the indirect class, or excise, and because the tax is not apportioned, nor subject to the census or enumeration, it is an excise tax, a tax upon the exercise of privileges, such taxes not being subject to the condition of apportionment to the States.

Will the subterfuge and deceit never end...

-

If you don't watch it, then you are one of the many under informed Americans. PERIOD.

Albert Einstein
[on filing for tax returns] This is too difficult for a mathematician. It takes a philosopher.

And you are so smart.....

Albert Einstein
The hardest thing in the world to understand is the income tax.

PS. The DVD explains why you are wrong. The host goes back and forth/round and round with a former IRS commissioner and he wins. In the end the guy says, "caviat emptor". (not exactly what he said), so the host freezes the tape and says, "for those of you who don't understand yiddish, he just said, "there is nothing that will help you".

In other words, the income tax is the law because the people with the guns say it is the law.

Watch the dvd and hear Ron Paul say it. Don't argue with me. Argue with the fucking facts. I don't have all the facts. The dvd does.

And the IRS won't even debate We the People. And they won't let us audit them.

And, you can not deny the many cases where juries find people not guilty of income tax evasion.

Because the income tax is voluntary, even though they'll put you in prison for not paying. Because you incriminate yourself when you do a 1040. And not enough states ratified the 16th amendment in 1913, and they passed it during xmas break,

I could go on and on, but you really need to watch the DVD. Until then, I don't even want to discuss it with you.

As if you are smarter than Ron Paul or Dennis Kucenich.

Why don't the rest of them speak up? Because they railroad any politician that does speak out.

But because you won't watch and wake up, things will never change. They own both of us because you are a fucking close minded moron.

 

[sealybobo]

We The People Foundation & We The People Congress

 

[indago]

They said it in the 1800's and then said in 1913 that the Federal Reserve Act gave congress no new taxing power.

Not so, and you haven't shown where this was written by the Supreme Court.

And the dvd will explain this in great detail. It will explain direct vs indirect taxes, and the income tax is neither.

I really doubt that "the dvd will explain this", because it's not true. If the dvd does try to explain it, then there is no credence to the dvd.

The Solicitor General for the government, in an amicus curiae brief, had made the argument: "The Sixteenth Amendment removed the restriction of apportionment as to such income taxes as before were subject thereto." The Court, in their opinion, in which there was no dissent, and noting this "confusion", declared this to be an "erroneous assumption" on the part of the government, and "wholly without foundation". The Court declared that "it was settled that the provisions of the Sixteenth Amendment conferred no new power of taxation"; and that the amendment simply prohibited the income tax from being taken from the category of indirect taxation, and being placed into the category of a direct tax.

It was also explained that the Congress of the United States had no intention of destroying the two great classes of taxation by the wording of the Sixteenth Amendment, but placed an income tax into the category of taxation in which it inherently belonged; the indirect class, or excise, and because the tax is not apportioned, nor subject to the census or enumeration, it is an excise tax, a tax upon the exercise of privileges, such taxes not being subject to the condition of apportionment to the States.

Will the subterfuge and deceit never end...

-

But because you won't watch and wake up, things will never change. They own both of us because you are a fucking close minded moron.

It was YOU that said: "And the dvd will explain this in great detail. It will explain direct vs indirect taxes, and the income tax is neither", and: "They said it in the 1800's and then said in 1913 that the Federal Reserve Act gave congress no new taxing power", not a dvd. You have not shown where all this was written in a Supreme Court opinion.

So, who's the "fucking close minded moron"?

 

[editec]

Ron Paul's theories are hardly new, Sealy.

He's a gold bug.