Krugman rips von Mises up one side & down the other

[The Rabbi]

Krugman is an unremarkable parrot of Keynes, and wouldn't make a pimple on von Mises's ass.

Yes Krugman and Keynes offer the quintessential free lunch of all time. All you gotta do is tax and spend your way to an ever growing economy!!

Here's Keynes in the coming 15 hour work week


the 15 hour work week



"For many ages to come the old Adam will be so strong in us that everybody will need to do some work if he is to be contented. We shall do more things for ourselves than is usual with the rich to-day, only too glad to have small duties and tasks and routines. But beyond this, we shall endeavour to spread the bread thin on the butter-to make what work there is still to be done to be as widely shared as possible. Three-hour shifts or a fifteen-hour week may put off the problem for a great while. For three hours a day is quite enough to satisfy the old Adam in most of us! " jm Keynes

First, you don't seem to understand anything about economics. You should read some Econ 101, or take a class at a community college. It might help you to not get bogged down in the logical fallacies that Austrian School cultists get sucked into. You have to start at the beginning to get the basics down, before arguing up to the levels you want to.

And Keynes was merely musing that the automation that was starting to show up in the economy during his lifetime, the faster movement of people and goods, and the faster information, might end up reducing work hours from the sunrise to sunset sort of economy that most people were engaged in throughout the industrialized world, until unions brought better working conditions and made laws ending child labor and setting overtime after a set amount of hours was reached in a day or week.

Just recently, a billionaire, probably doodling at a desk worth more than your house, decided three twelve hour shifts should be sufficient for the workweek. It's easy for him to say that, as his wife and he have the means to send the nanny to watch the kids' baseball games, and have the limousine driver cart them around. But, having owned a business, and not being wildly wealthy, I know that there are some problems with his thinking. First is that productivity falls after 8-10 hours on the job. Second is the fact that wags are far too low in the US for many people to afford the cut back in hours. Third is that people have kids and other responsibilities that a three day workweek may not allow them to be able to keep up (like daycare, time after school for kids, etc.)

Anyway, Keynes destroyed Mises' and Hayek's arguments back in the 1930s. Austrian School hasn't contributed much of any economic knowledge to the world. It simply would wreak havoc in world markets, and its adherents have to jump back and forth from one side of an issue to another side of an issue, to avoid admitting they are wrong. Noah Smith showed the light weight intellectual thinking that Austrian School adherents use to defend their positions.
Noahpinion: Austrianism, wrong? Inconceivable!

You telling people they dont know anything about economics is about as good a demonstration of irony as I could think of.

 

[Dot Com]

Austrian School cultists still haven't refuted whats been posted thus far

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Austrian School cultists still haven't refuted whats been posted thus far

East/West Germany and 123 other examples prove that the Austrians were right about freedom from lib commie government.

 

[Shanty]

Austrian School cultists still haven't refuted whats been posted thus far

East/West Germany and 123 other examples prove that the Austrians were right about freedom from lib commie government.

Keynesians said communism wouldn't last. Keynesian policies produced the economic engine for staying in front of the Eastern Bloc economically, and militarily. Austrian School ideas offered nothing towards beating communism, because it's based in fairy tales.

 

[Shanty]

Yes Krugman and Keynes offer the quintessential free lunch of all time. All you gotta do is tax and spend your way to an ever growing economy!!

Here's Keynes in the coming 15 hour work week


the 15 hour work week



"For many ages to come the old Adam will be so strong in us that everybody will need to do some work if he is to be contented. We shall do more things for ourselves than is usual with the rich to-day, only too glad to have small duties and tasks and routines. But beyond this, we shall endeavour to spread the bread thin on the butter-to make what work there is still to be done to be as widely shared as possible. Three-hour shifts or a fifteen-hour week may put off the problem for a great while. For three hours a day is quite enough to satisfy the old Adam in most of us! " jm Keynes

First, you don't seem to understand anything about economics. You should read some Econ 101, or take a class at a community college. It might help you to not get bogged down in the logical fallacies that Austrian School cultists get sucked into. You have to start at the beginning to get the basics down, before arguing up to the levels you want to.

And Keynes was merely musing that the automation that was starting to show up in the economy during his lifetime, the faster movement of people and goods, and the faster information, might end up reducing work hours from the sunrise to sunset sort of economy that most people were engaged in throughout the industrialized world, until unions brought better working conditions and made laws ending child labor and setting overtime after a set amount of hours was reached in a day or week.

Just recently, a billionaire, probably doodling at a desk worth more than your house, decided three twelve hour shifts should be sufficient for the workweek. It's easy for him to say that, as his wife and he have the means to send the nanny to watch the kids' baseball games, and have the limousine driver cart them around. But, having owned a business, and not being wildly wealthy, I know that there are some problems with his thinking. First is that productivity falls after 8-10 hours on the job. Second is the fact that wags are far too low in the US for many people to afford the cut back in hours. Third is that people have kids and other responsibilities that a three day workweek may not allow them to be able to keep up (like daycare, time after school for kids, etc.)

Anyway, Keynes destroyed Mises' and Hayek's arguments back in the 1930s. Austrian School hasn't contributed much of any economic knowledge to the world. It simply would wreak havoc in world markets, and its adherents have to jump back and forth from one side of an issue to another side of an issue, to avoid admitting they are wrong. Noah Smith showed the light weight intellectual thinking that Austrian School adherents use to defend their positions.
Noahpinion: Austrianism, wrong? Inconceivable!

You telling people they dont know anything about economics is about as good a demonstration of irony as I could think of.

You proving you don't even know about wages and prices being sticky in the other thread makes my case for me.

 

[Dot Com]

Austrian School cultists still haven't refuted whats been posted thus far

East/West Germany and 123 other examples prove that the Austrians were right about freedom from lib commie government.

Keynesians said communism wouldn't last. Keynesian policies produced the economic engine for staying in front of the Eastern Bloc economically, and militarily. Austrian School ideas offered nothing towards beating communism, because it's based in fairy tales.

^ that

 

[Mac1958]

.

Krugman is a good and obedient social Democrat, a leftist theorist who has no interest in the psychology of private business since he's not a big fan of private business.

Theorists are fine, of course, and it's always good to take all reasonable theories under consideration.

But with a big ol' grain of salt, not with genuflection.

.

 

[Bfgrn]

Ironically there is no industrialized nation whose economy is based on "Austrian school" foolishness.

But America did follow "Austrian school" advise...once.

It turned a recession into a GREAT DEPRESSION...

What NEVER works is what Herbert Hoover and Andrew Mellon did to bring on the Great Depression...liquidate, and austerity. They listened to the 'Austrian' school. Unless you also believe Medieval blood letting save lives?

Economic Policy Under Hoover

Throughout this decline—which carried real GNP per worker down to a level 40 percent below that which it had attained in 1929, and which saw the unemployment rise to take in more than a quarter of the labor force—the government did not try to prop up aggregate demand. The only expansionary fiscal policy action undertaken was the Veterans’ Bonus, passed over President Hoover’s veto. That aside, the full employment budget surplus did not fall over 1929–33.

The Federal Reserve did not use open market operations to keep the nominal money supply from falling. Instead, its only significant systematic use of open market operations was in the other direction: to raise interest rates and discourage gold outflows after the United Kingdom abandoned the gold standard in the fall of 1931.

This inaction did not come about because they did not understand the tools of monetary policy. This inaction did not come about because the Federal Reserve was constrained by the necessity of defending the gold standard. The Federal Reserve knew what it was doing: it was letting the private sector handle the Depression in its own fashion. It saw the private sector’s task as the “liquidation” of the American economy. It feared that expansionary monetary policy would impede the necessary private-sector process of readjustment.

Contemplating in retrospect the wreck of his country’s economy and his own presidency, Herbert Hoover wrote bitterly in his memoirs about those who had advised inaction during the downslide:

The ‘leave-it-alone liquidationists’ headed by Secretary of the Treasury Mellon…felt that government must keep its hands off and let the slump liquidate itself. Mr. Mellon had only one formula: ‘Liquidate labor, liquidate stocks, liquidate the farmers, liquidate real estate’.…He held that even panic was not altogether a bad thing. He said: ‘It will purge the rottenness out of the system. High costs of living and high living will come down. People will work harder, live a more moral life. Values will be adjusted, and enterprising people will pick up the wrecks from less competent people’.


The Federal Reserve took almost no steps to halt the slide into the Great Depression over 1929–33. Instead, the Federal Reserve acted as if appropriate policy was not to try to avoid the oncoming Great Depression, but to allow it to run its course and “liquidate” the unprofitable portions of the private economy.

In adopting such “liquidationist” policies, the Federal Reserve was merely following the recommendations provided by an economic theory of depressions that was in fact common before the Keynesian Revolution and was held by economists like Friedrich Hayek, Lionel Robbins, and Joseph Schumpeter.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Ironically there is no industrialized nation whose economy is based on "Austrian school" foolishness.

But America did follow "Austrian school" advise...once.

It turned a recession into a GREAT DEPRESSION...

What NEVER works is what Herbert Hoover and Andrew Mellon did to bring on the Great Depression...liquidate, and austerity. They listened to the 'Austrian' school. Unless you also believe Medieval blood letting save lives?

Economic Policy Under Hoover

Throughout this decline—which carried real GNP per worker down to a level 40 percent below that which it had attained in 1929, and which saw the unemployment rise to take in more than a quarter of the labor force—the government did not try to prop up aggregate demand. The only expansionary fiscal policy action undertaken was the Veterans’ Bonus, passed over President Hoover’s veto. That aside, the full employment budget surplus did not fall over 1929–33.

The Federal Reserve did not use open market operations to keep the nominal money supply from falling. Instead, its only significant systematic use of open market operations was in the other direction: to raise interest rates and discourage gold outflows after the United Kingdom abandoned the gold standard in the fall of 1931.

This inaction did not come about because they did not understand the tools of monetary policy. This inaction did not come about because the Federal Reserve was constrained by the necessity of defending the gold standard. The Federal Reserve knew what it was doing: it was letting the private sector handle the Depression in its own fashion. It saw the private sector’s task as the “liquidation” of the American economy. It feared that expansionary monetary policy would impede the necessary private-sector process of readjustment.

Contemplating in retrospect the wreck of his country’s economy and his own presidency, Herbert Hoover wrote bitterly in his memoirs about those who had advised inaction during the downslide:

The ‘leave-it-alone liquidationists’ headed by Secretary of the Treasury Mellon…felt that government must keep its hands off and let the slump liquidate itself. Mr. Mellon had only one formula: ‘Liquidate labor, liquidate stocks, liquidate the farmers, liquidate real estate’.…He held that even panic was not altogether a bad thing. He said: ‘It will purge the rottenness out of the system. High costs of living and high living will come down. People will work harder, live a more moral life. Values will be adjusted, and enterprising people will pick up the wrecks from less competent people’.


The Federal Reserve took almost no steps to halt the slide into the Great Depression over 1929–33. Instead, the Federal Reserve acted as if appropriate policy was not to try to avoid the oncoming Great Depression, but to allow it to run its course and “liquidate” the unprofitable portions of the private economy.

In adopting such “liquidationist” policies, the Federal Reserve was merely following the recommendations provided by an economic theory of depressions that was in fact common before the Keynesian Revolution and was held by economists like Friedrich Hayek, Lionel Robbins, and Joseph Schumpeter.

Of course you fuckers HAVE to lie. We practiced it under Coolidge and had our best years ever

 

[CrusaderFrank]

FDR practiced Krugman economics and turned a recession into the FDR depression, the worst economy in human history eclipsing even the 7 biblical Lean Years

 

[Listening]

FDR practiced Krugman economics and turned a recession into the FDR depression, the worst economy in human history eclipsing even the 7 biblical Lean Years

He didn't even know it. He was practicing micromanagement and violation of the constitution in his all knowing efforts.....

And yes, look what we got.

 

[Dot Com]

.

Krugman is a good and obedient social Democrat, a leftist theorist who has no interest in the psychology of private business since he's not a big fan of private business.

Theorists are fine, of course, and it's always good to take all reasonable theories under consideration.

But with a big ol' grain of salt, not with genuflection.

.

link? You know how message boards work.

Don't play dumb unless you are an Austrian School cultist THEN we'll take your word for it.

Ironically there is no industrialized nation whose economy is based on "Austrian school" foolishness.

But America did follow "Austrian school" advise...once.

It turned a recession into a GREAT DEPRESSION...

What NEVER works is what Herbert Hoover and Andrew Mellon did to bring on the Great Depression...liquidate, and austerity. They listened to the 'Austrian' school. Unless you also believe Medieval blood letting save lives?

Economic Policy Under Hoover

Throughout this decline—which carried real GNP per worker down to a level 40 percent below that which it had attained in 1929, and which saw the unemployment rise to take in more than a quarter of the labor force—the government did not try to prop up aggregate demand. The only expansionary fiscal policy action undertaken was the Veterans’ Bonus, passed over President Hoover’s veto. That aside, the full employment budget surplus did not fall over 1929–33.

The Federal Reserve did not use open market operations to keep the nominal money supply from falling. Instead, its only significant systematic use of open market operations was in the other direction: to raise interest rates and discourage gold outflows after the United Kingdom abandoned the gold standard in the fall of 1931.

This inaction did not come about because they did not understand the tools of monetary policy. This inaction did not come about because the Federal Reserve was constrained by the necessity of defending the gold standard. The Federal Reserve knew what it was doing: it was letting the private sector handle the Depression in its own fashion. It saw the private sector’s task as the “liquidation” of the American economy. It feared that expansionary monetary policy would impede the necessary private-sector process of readjustment.

Contemplating in retrospect the wreck of his country’s economy and his own presidency, Herbert Hoover wrote bitterly in his memoirs about those who had advised inaction during the downslide:

The ‘leave-it-alone liquidationists’ headed by Secretary of the Treasury Mellon…felt that government must keep its hands off and let the slump liquidate itself. Mr. Mellon had only one formula: ‘Liquidate labor, liquidate stocks, liquidate the farmers, liquidate real estate’.…He held that even panic was not altogether a bad thing. He said: ‘It will purge the rottenness out of the system. High costs of living and high living will come down. People will work harder, live a more moral life. Values will be adjusted, and enterprising people will pick up the wrecks from less competent people’.


The Federal Reserve took almost no steps to halt the slide into the Great Depression over 1929–33. Instead, the Federal Reserve acted as if appropriate policy was not to try to avoid the oncoming Great Depression, but to allow it to run its course and “liquidate” the unprofitable portions of the private economy.

In adopting such “liquidationist” policies, the Federal Reserve was merely following the recommendations provided by an economic theory of depressions that was in fact common before the Keynesian Revolution and was held by economists like Friedrich Hayek, Lionel Robbins, and Joseph Schumpeter.

pos-repped. THATS how you debate. There is no debating, in all seriousness, when it comes to Krugman. he's a genius .

 

[Listening]

.

Krugman is a good and obedient social Democrat, a leftist theorist who has no interest in the psychology of private business since he's not a big fan of private business.

Theorists are fine, of course, and it's always good to take all reasonable theories under consideration.

But with a big ol' grain of salt, not with genuflection.

.

link? You know how message boards work.

Don't play dumb unless you are an Austrian School cultist THEN we'll take your word for it.

Ironically there is no industrialized nation whose economy is based on "Austrian school" foolishness.

But America did follow "Austrian school" advise...once.

It turned a recession into a GREAT DEPRESSION...

What NEVER works is what Herbert Hoover and Andrew Mellon did to bring on the Great Depression...liquidate, and austerity. They listened to the 'Austrian' school. Unless you also believe Medieval blood letting save lives?

Economic Policy Under Hoover

Throughout this decline—which carried real GNP per worker down to a level 40 percent below that which it had attained in 1929, and which saw the unemployment rise to take in more than a quarter of the labor force—the government did not try to prop up aggregate demand. The only expansionary fiscal policy action undertaken was the Veterans’ Bonus, passed over President Hoover’s veto. That aside, the full employment budget surplus did not fall over 1929–33.

The Federal Reserve did not use open market operations to keep the nominal money supply from falling. Instead, its only significant systematic use of open market operations was in the other direction: to raise interest rates and discourage gold outflows after the United Kingdom abandoned the gold standard in the fall of 1931.

This inaction did not come about because they did not understand the tools of monetary policy. This inaction did not come about because the Federal Reserve was constrained by the necessity of defending the gold standard. The Federal Reserve knew what it was doing: it was letting the private sector handle the Depression in its own fashion. It saw the private sector’s task as the “liquidation” of the American economy. It feared that expansionary monetary policy would impede the necessary private-sector process of readjustment.

Contemplating in retrospect the wreck of his country’s economy and his own presidency, Herbert Hoover wrote bitterly in his memoirs about those who had advised inaction during the downslide:

The ‘leave-it-alone liquidationists’ headed by Secretary of the Treasury Mellon…felt that government must keep its hands off and let the slump liquidate itself. Mr. Mellon had only one formula: ‘Liquidate labor, liquidate stocks, liquidate the farmers, liquidate real estate’.…He held that even panic was not altogether a bad thing. He said: ‘It will purge the rottenness out of the system. High costs of living and high living will come down. People will work harder, live a more moral life. Values will be adjusted, and enterprising people will pick up the wrecks from less competent people’.


The Federal Reserve took almost no steps to halt the slide into the Great Depression over 1929–33. Instead, the Federal Reserve acted as if appropriate policy was not to try to avoid the oncoming Great Depression, but to allow it to run its course and “liquidate” the unprofitable portions of the private economy.

In adopting such “liquidationist” policies, the Federal Reserve was merely following the recommendations provided by an economic theory of depressions that was in fact common before the Keynesian Revolution and was held by economists like Friedrich Hayek, Lionel Robbins, and Joseph Schumpeter.

pos-repped. THATS how you debate. There is no debating, in all seriousness, when it comes to Krugman. he's a genius .

ROTFLMAO

You call this debate because it gives you some talking points.

Please relate Hoover's yammerings to Austrian Economics and show how the two are connected with some real numbers. That would be debate.

Bfgrn is great at posting little tidbits that are not related to his assertions.

But then, you can show us how this backs up Krugman's blather.

Otherwise you are not debating Krugman. You are sucking his dick.

And that would be sooooo you.

 

[Dot Com]

This message is hidden because Listening is on your ignore list.

this is a non-welcher thread son. Go post on a thread of some OP who doesn't care if you weasel out of a wager that you lost.

Shame. I guess it will have to be on the honor system then.

So let's bet....

Romney wins...you leave the board.

Obama wins....I leave.

A deal ?

Deal.

 

[Listening]

This message is hidden because Listening is on your ignore list.

this is a non-welcher thread son. Go post on a thread of some OP who doesn't care if you weasel out of a wager that you lost.

So let's bet....

Romney wins...you leave the board.

Obama wins....I leave.

A deal ?

Deal.

Awww.......

Dottie.......

This is an asshole thread because you started it.

You have not contributed jack squat...and you hide under the skirts of others.

So too.

 

[Dot Com]

welchboi says what? Go bite someone else's ankle son. I don't have time for your silliness :yawn:

 

[Listening]

welchboi says what? Go bite someone else's ankle son. I don't have time for your silliness :yawn:

It's clear you don't have time to research your own topics either.

Did you ever decide you had the balls to meet me in the bull ring ?

Still waiting.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Austrian School cultists still haven't refuted whats been posted thus far

East/West Germany and 123 other examples prove that the Austrians were right about freedom from lib commie government.

Keynesians said communism wouldn't last. Keynesian policies produced the economic engine for staying in front of the Eastern Bloc economically, and militarily. Austrian School ideas offered nothing towards beating communism, because it's based in fairy tales.

Communism failed as an economic system in both the USSR and Mao's China, but since they had all the guns they were able to stay in power

 

[Bfgrn]

FDR practiced Krugman economics and turned a recession into the FDR depression, the worst economy in human history eclipsing even the 7 biblical Lean Years

Why is it that your theories only make sense when one stands on his head Frank???

I forgot, FDR DID try the "Austrian school" approach in 1937 when he slashed public spending programs to balance the budget.

The official U.S. Business Cycle Dating Committee established that the downturn that began in August 1929 ended in March 1933 with the remarkable economic expansion that started within days of FDR’s bold—if trial and error—New Deal programs. By any normal definition, the Great Depression had ended by late 1936, with all major indicators surpassing their previous peaks.

A second cyclical downturn officially began in May 1937 when FDR, always a fiscal conservative, mistakenly thought the economy had become self-sustaining and slashed public spending programs to balance the budget. These harsh and premature spending cuts caused another severe recession that ended after 13 months in June 1938.

Even in this severe downturn, annual GDP did not fall back below its 1929 peak.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

FDR practiced Krugman economics and turned a recession into the FDR depression, the worst economy in human history eclipsing even the 7 biblical Lean Years

Why is it that your theories only make sense when one stands on his head Frank???

I forgot, FDR DID try the "Austrian school" approach in 1937 when he slashed public spending programs to balance the budget.

The official U.S. Business Cycle Dating Committee established that the downturn that began in August 1929 ended in March 1933 with the remarkable economic expansion that started within days of FDR’s bold—if trial and error—New Deal programs. By any normal definition, the Great Depression had ended by late 1936, with all major indicators surpassing their previous peaks.

A second cyclical downturn officially began in May 1937 when FDR, always a fiscal conservative, mistakenly thought the economy had become self-sustaining and slashed public spending programs to balance the budget. These harsh and premature spending cuts caused another severe recession that ended after 13 months in June 1938.

Even in this severe downturn, annual GDP did not fall back below its 1929 peak.

Coolidge and Mellon used Austrian economics and dropped unemployment from 12% to 4 in 18 months. When Coolidge left in 1928 you could not find an unemployed person in all of the USA.

FDR took a recession similar to the one Coolidge inherited and used it to give us 8 years of 20% average unemployment. The economy grew under FDR only because the Fed restored some on the money they siphoned out under Hoover in order to cause the crash and the recession in the first place.

FDR's central planned economy was the biggest fail in human history