Justice for the Palestinians

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, anotherlife, et al,

It is a matter of perception.

I think it is not possible to conduct business if you don't have your own identity or if you only have an identity that is imposed upon you. So the Arab centric foundations are essential.

(COMMENT)

Most Belligerents, by the very nature of exhibiting or initiating some sort of continuous conflict or dedicated to an oath not to negotiate or sue for peace, is the most usual reason for a lack of territorial development. Elaborate security countermeasures divert critical funding, capital investments, venture capital contributions and reconstruction revenue for small business, commercial development, and residential establishments.

It is important to remember that, while not all Arab Centric programs, a vast majority are motivated by racism within Islam.

That is not true. It is illegal to annex occupied territory. The West Bank remained occupied Palestinian territory as it is still designated today. Jordan was merely considered to be the trustee of that territory.

(COMMENT)

First: It is pretty obvious that Israel really doesn't want to Annex the West Bank. If they did that, the Arab Palestinians flood the citizenship population and pick-up freedom of travel across the demarcation. The subterfuge of Jordanian Trusteeship is 100% bogus. But it makes no difference whether the territory was annex (which it was under the right of self-determination) or whether it was occupation. Once a situation exists which factually amounts to an occupation the law of occupation applies – whether or not the occupation is considered lawful.

View attachment 78606​

As you can see, between 1 August and 14 November 1988, the territory was abandon (Terra Nullius) by the Hashemite Kingdom with the announced intention not to return. There was no Arab Palestinian Authority to assume effective control.

Each pro-Palestinian argument is based on some assumption that

Most Respectfully,
R

Jordan's annexation was widely regarded as illegal and void by the Arab League and others. Elihu Lauterpacht described it as a move that "entirely lacked legal justification."

On 12 June 1950, the Arab League declared the annexation was a temporary, practical measure and that Jordan was holding the territory as a “trustee” pending a future settlement.

On 31 July 1988, Jordan renounced its claims to the West Bank (with the exception of guardianship over the Muslim holy sites in Jerusalem), and recognized the Palestine Liberation Organization as "the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people."

Jordanian occupation of the West Bank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

Of course the Palestinians, the legal inhabitants of the land, consider it occupied Palestinian territory.

Which just happen to be Jews don't they, and so you are once again demonstrating that you want to violate the Jews rights to a home land, free determination and territorial integrity on 22% of the lands of Palestine. Leaving the arab muslims 78% of Palestine as theirs.

Whay are you so set on removing the Jews rights to self determination and territorial integrity, when you push these for the Palestinians when hey already have them. Not Israel's fault the Palestinians are a fractured people with 3 enclaves instead of one unified nation.

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, anotherlife, et al,

It is a matter of perception.

I think it is not possible to conduct business if you don't have your own identity or if you only have an identity that is imposed upon you. So the Arab centric foundations are essential.

(COMMENT)

Most Belligerents, by the very nature of exhibiting or initiating some sort of continuous conflict or dedicated to an oath not to negotiate or sue for peace, is the most usual reason for a lack of territorial development. Elaborate security countermeasures divert critical funding, capital investments, venture capital contributions and reconstruction revenue for small business, commercial development, and residential establishments.

It is important to remember that, while not all Arab Centric programs, a vast majority are motivated by racism within Islam.

That is not true. It is illegal to annex occupied territory. The West Bank remained occupied Palestinian territory as it is still designated today. Jordan was merely considered to be the trustee of that territory.

(COMMENT)

First: It is pretty obvious that Israel really doesn't want to Annex the West Bank. If they did that, the Arab Palestinians flood the citizenship population and pick-up freedom of travel across the demarcation. The subterfuge of Jordanian Trusteeship is 100% bogus. But it makes no difference whether the territory was annex (which it was under the right of self-determination) or whether it was occupation. Once a situation exists which factually amounts to an occupation the law of occupation applies – whether or not the occupation is considered lawful.

View attachment 78606​

As you can see, between 1 August and 14 November 1988, the territory was abandon (Terra Nullius) by the Hashemite Kingdom with the announced intention not to return. There was no Arab Palestinian Authority to assume effective control.

Each pro-Palestinian argument is based on some assumption that

Most Respectfully,
R

Jordan's annexation was widely regarded as illegal and void by the Arab League and others. Elihu Lauterpacht described it as a move that "entirely lacked legal justification."

On 12 June 1950, the Arab League declared the annexation was a temporary, practical measure and that Jordan was holding the territory as a “trustee” pending a future settlement.

On 31 July 1988, Jordan renounced its claims to the West Bank (with the exception of guardianship over the Muslim holy sites in Jerusalem), and recognized the Palestine Liberation Organization as "the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people."

Jordanian occupation of the West Bank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

Of course the Palestinians, the legal inhabitants of the land, consider it occupied Palestinian territory.

There is no such thing as palestinians , ergo they cannot be legal inhabitants of any land.

Consequently it doesn't really matter what a fictional people "consider"

What matters is that Tribal land is once again in the hands of its rightful owners. The Judaic people

There is no such thing as palestinians ,​

Now all you have to do is to get millions of Palestinians to believe that crap.

Good luck with that.

Easy just remind them that prior to 1960 they would kill anyone that called them a Jew and they will drop the term .

 

[anotherlife]

P F Tinmore, anotherlife, et al,

It is a matter of perception.

I think it is not possible to conduct business if you don't have your own identity or if you only have an identity that is imposed upon you. So the Arab centric foundations are essential.

(COMMENT)

Most Belligerents, by the very nature of exhibiting or initiating some sort of continuous conflict or dedicated to an oath not to negotiate or sue for peace, is the most usual reason for a lack of territorial development. Elaborate security countermeasures divert critical funding, capital investments, venture capital contributions and reconstruction revenue for small business, commercial development, and residential establishments.

It is important to remember that, while not all Arab Centric programs, a vast majority are motivated by racism within Islam.

That is not true. It is illegal to annex occupied territory. The West Bank remained occupied Palestinian territory as it is still designated today. Jordan was merely considered to be the trustee of that territory.

(COMMENT)

First: It is pretty obvious that Israel really doesn't want to Annex the West Bank. If they did that, the Arab Palestinians flood the citizenship population and pick-up freedom of travel across the demarcation. The subterfuge of Jordanian Trusteeship is 100% bogus. But it makes no difference whether the territory was annex (which it was under the right of self-determination) or whether it was occupation. Once a situation exists which factually amounts to an occupation the law of occupation applies – whether or not the occupation is considered lawful.

View attachment 78606​

As you can see, between 1 August and 14 November 1988, the territory was abandon (Terra Nullius) by the Hashemite Kingdom with the announced intention not to return. There was no Arab Palestinian Authority to assume effective control.

Each pro-Palestinian argument is based on some assumption that

Most Respectfully,
R

But this logic does nothing but legalize the same powers that create the conflict in the first place, buy making it legal to take away the working people's land, money, and identity, only to continue the conflict.

P F Tinmore, anotherlife, et al,

It is a matter of perception.

I think it is not possible to conduct business if you don't have your own identity or if you only have an identity that is imposed upon you. So the Arab centric foundations are essential.

(COMMENT)

Most Belligerents, by the very nature of exhibiting or initiating some sort of continuous conflict or dedicated to an oath not to negotiate or sue for peace, is the most usual reason for a lack of territorial development. Elaborate security countermeasures divert critical funding, capital investments, venture capital contributions and reconstruction revenue for small business, commercial development, and residential establishments.

It is important to remember that, while not all Arab Centric programs, a vast majority are motivated by racism within Islam.

That is not true. It is illegal to annex occupied territory. The West Bank remained occupied Palestinian territory as it is still designated today. Jordan was merely considered to be the trustee of that territory.

(COMMENT)

First: It is pretty obvious that Israel really doesn't want to Annex the West Bank. If they did that, the Arab Palestinians flood the citizenship population and pick-up freedom of travel across the demarcation. The subterfuge of Jordanian Trusteeship is 100% bogus. But it makes no difference whether the territory was annex (which it was under the right of self-determination) or whether it was occupation. Once a situation exists which factually amounts to an occupation the law of occupation applies – whether or not the occupation is considered lawful.

View attachment 78606​

As you can see, between 1 August and 14 November 1988, the territory was abandon (Terra Nullius) by the Hashemite Kingdom with the announced intention not to return. There was no Arab Palestinian Authority to assume effective control.

Each pro-Palestinian argument is based on some assumption that

Most Respectfully,
R

Jordan's annexation was widely regarded as illegal and void by the Arab League and others. Elihu Lauterpacht described it as a move that "entirely lacked legal justification."

On 12 June 1950, the Arab League declared the annexation was a temporary, practical measure and that Jordan was holding the territory as a “trustee” pending a future settlement.

On 31 July 1988, Jordan renounced its claims to the West Bank (with the exception of guardianship over the Muslim holy sites in Jerusalem), and recognized the Palestine Liberation Organization as "the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people."

Jordanian occupation of the West Bank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

Of course the Palestinians, the legal inhabitants of the land, consider it occupied Palestinian territory.

Legalese is the modern word for such clever looting against farmers.

I think justice should define who a Palestinian is, and then establish their historic assets such as land and money and trade rights. Then the international community can negotiate about restoring these.

YES about time this was put over by someone else. The problem is it would show just how many Palestinians are illegal immigrants and not liable for any real Justice.

Probably no, because the word illegal immigrant is used everywhere against indigenous people too, where a government administration doesn't want them.

In this case it would be a litmus test to settle the argument once and for all, leaving everyone under no illusion as to who is Palestinian and who isn't. The very thing the arab league does not want as it would show the truth about the conflict.

Litmus was a crook. It is sad that anything he said is now called a test. So I don't understand your point.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, anotherlife, et al,

It is a matter of perception.

I think it is not possible to conduct business if you don't have your own identity or if you only have an identity that is imposed upon you. So the Arab centric foundations are essential.

(COMMENT)

Most Belligerents, by the very nature of exhibiting or initiating some sort of continuous conflict or dedicated to an oath not to negotiate or sue for peace, is the most usual reason for a lack of territorial development. Elaborate security countermeasures divert critical funding, capital investments, venture capital contributions and reconstruction revenue for small business, commercial development, and residential establishments.

It is important to remember that, while not all Arab Centric programs, a vast majority are motivated by racism within Islam.

That is not true. It is illegal to annex occupied territory. The West Bank remained occupied Palestinian territory as it is still designated today. Jordan was merely considered to be the trustee of that territory.

(COMMENT)

First: It is pretty obvious that Israel really doesn't want to Annex the West Bank. If they did that, the Arab Palestinians flood the citizenship population and pick-up freedom of travel across the demarcation. The subterfuge of Jordanian Trusteeship is 100% bogus. But it makes no difference whether the territory was annex (which it was under the right of self-determination) or whether it was occupation. Once a situation exists which factually amounts to an occupation the law of occupation applies – whether or not the occupation is considered lawful.

View attachment 78606​

As you can see, between 1 August and 14 November 1988, the territory was abandon (Terra Nullius) by the Hashemite Kingdom with the announced intention not to return. There was no Arab Palestinian Authority to assume effective control.

Each pro-Palestinian argument is based on some assumption that

Most Respectfully,
R

Jordan's annexation was widely regarded as illegal and void by the Arab League and others. Elihu Lauterpacht described it as a move that "entirely lacked legal justification."

On 12 June 1950, the Arab League declared the annexation was a temporary, practical measure and that Jordan was holding the territory as a “trustee” pending a future settlement.

On 31 July 1988, Jordan renounced its claims to the West Bank (with the exception of guardianship over the Muslim holy sites in Jerusalem), and recognized the Palestine Liberation Organization as "the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people."

Jordanian occupation of the West Bank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

Of course the Palestinians, the legal inhabitants of the land, consider it occupied Palestinian territory.

Which just happen to be Jews don't they, and so you are once again demonstrating that you want to violate the Jews rights to a home land, free determination and territorial integrity on 22% of the lands of Palestine. Leaving the arab muslims 78% of Palestine as theirs.

Whay are you so set on removing the Jews rights to self determination and territorial integrity, when you push these for the Palestinians when hey already have them. Not Israel's fault the Palestinians are a fractured people with 3 enclaves instead of one unified nation.

What are you blabbering on about? Even the PLO recognized the native Jews as legitimate citizens of Palestine.

 

[Hollie]

P F Tinmore, anotherlife, et al,

It is a matter of perception.

I think it is not possible to conduct business if you don't have your own identity or if you only have an identity that is imposed upon you. So the Arab centric foundations are essential.

(COMMENT)

Most Belligerents, by the very nature of exhibiting or initiating some sort of continuous conflict or dedicated to an oath not to negotiate or sue for peace, is the most usual reason for a lack of territorial development. Elaborate security countermeasures divert critical funding, capital investments, venture capital contributions and reconstruction revenue for small business, commercial development, and residential establishments.

It is important to remember that, while not all Arab Centric programs, a vast majority are motivated by racism within Islam.

That is not true. It is illegal to annex occupied territory. The West Bank remained occupied Palestinian territory as it is still designated today. Jordan was merely considered to be the trustee of that territory.

(COMMENT)

First: It is pretty obvious that Israel really doesn't want to Annex the West Bank. If they did that, the Arab Palestinians flood the citizenship population and pick-up freedom of travel across the demarcation. The subterfuge of Jordanian Trusteeship is 100% bogus. But it makes no difference whether the territory was annex (which it was under the right of self-determination) or whether it was occupation. Once a situation exists which factually amounts to an occupation the law of occupation applies – whether or not the occupation is considered lawful.

View attachment 78606​

As you can see, between 1 August and 14 November 1988, the territory was abandon (Terra Nullius) by the Hashemite Kingdom with the announced intention not to return. There was no Arab Palestinian Authority to assume effective control.

Each pro-Palestinian argument is based on some assumption that

Most Respectfully,
R

Jordan's annexation was widely regarded as illegal and void by the Arab League and others. Elihu Lauterpacht described it as a move that "entirely lacked legal justification."

On 12 June 1950, the Arab League declared the annexation was a temporary, practical measure and that Jordan was holding the territory as a “trustee” pending a future settlement.

On 31 July 1988, Jordan renounced its claims to the West Bank (with the exception of guardianship over the Muslim holy sites in Jerusalem), and recognized the Palestine Liberation Organization as "the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people."

Jordanian occupation of the West Bank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

Of course the Palestinians, the legal inhabitants of the land, consider it occupied Palestinian territory.

Which just happen to be Jews don't they, and so you are once again demonstrating that you want to violate the Jews rights to a home land, free determination and territorial integrity on 22% of the lands of Palestine. Leaving the arab muslims 78% of Palestine as theirs.

Whay are you so set on removing the Jews rights to self determination and territorial integrity, when you push these for the Palestinians when hey already have them. Not Israel's fault the Palestinians are a fractured people with 3 enclaves instead of one unified nation.

What are you blabbering on about? Even the PLO recognized the native Jews as legitimate citizens of Palestine.

How typically pointless. You should learn your Islamic terrorist history as the PLO used the islamo-slogan "liberation of Palestine" through armed struggle. This also included the goal of "destroying the existence of Zionism in the Middle East".

You're choosing to sidestep the insensate Jew hatreds that are a fundamental component of islam'ism. The PLO eventually splintered into many different franchises of Islamic Terrorism Intl., Inc., but none of those franchises were any different from any of the other Islamic terrorist organizations In their core Islamist ideology. All of them demanded that "Moslem lands" be rid of Jews.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, anotherlife, et al,

It is a matter of perception.

I think it is not possible to conduct business if you don't have your own identity or if you only have an identity that is imposed upon you. So the Arab centric foundations are essential.

(COMMENT)

Most Belligerents, by the very nature of exhibiting or initiating some sort of continuous conflict or dedicated to an oath not to negotiate or sue for peace, is the most usual reason for a lack of territorial development. Elaborate security countermeasures divert critical funding, capital investments, venture capital contributions and reconstruction revenue for small business, commercial development, and residential establishments.

It is important to remember that, while not all Arab Centric programs, a vast majority are motivated by racism within Islam.

That is not true. It is illegal to annex occupied territory. The West Bank remained occupied Palestinian territory as it is still designated today. Jordan was merely considered to be the trustee of that territory.

(COMMENT)

First: It is pretty obvious that Israel really doesn't want to Annex the West Bank. If they did that, the Arab Palestinians flood the citizenship population and pick-up freedom of travel across the demarcation. The subterfuge of Jordanian Trusteeship is 100% bogus. But it makes no difference whether the territory was annex (which it was under the right of self-determination) or whether it was occupation. Once a situation exists which factually amounts to an occupation the law of occupation applies – whether or not the occupation is considered lawful.

View attachment 78606​

As you can see, between 1 August and 14 November 1988, the territory was abandon (Terra Nullius) by the Hashemite Kingdom with the announced intention not to return. There was no Arab Palestinian Authority to assume effective control.

Each pro-Palestinian argument is based on some assumption that

Most Respectfully,
R

Jordan's annexation was widely regarded as illegal and void by the Arab League and others. Elihu Lauterpacht described it as a move that "entirely lacked legal justification."

On 12 June 1950, the Arab League declared the annexation was a temporary, practical measure and that Jordan was holding the territory as a “trustee” pending a future settlement.

On 31 July 1988, Jordan renounced its claims to the West Bank (with the exception of guardianship over the Muslim holy sites in Jerusalem), and recognized the Palestine Liberation Organization as "the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people."

Jordanian occupation of the West Bank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

Of course the Palestinians, the legal inhabitants of the land, consider it occupied Palestinian territory.

Which just happen to be Jews don't they, and so you are once again demonstrating that you want to violate the Jews rights to a home land, free determination and territorial integrity on 22% of the lands of Palestine. Leaving the arab muslims 78% of Palestine as theirs.

Whay are you so set on removing the Jews rights to self determination and territorial integrity, when you push these for the Palestinians when hey already have them. Not Israel's fault the Palestinians are a fractured people with 3 enclaves instead of one unified nation.

What are you blabbering on about? Even the PLO recognized the native Jews as legitimate citizens of Palestine.

How typically pointless. You should learn your Islamic terrorist history as the PLO used the islamo-slogan "liberation of Palestine" through armed struggle. This also included the goal of "destroying the existence of Zionism in the Middle East".

You're choosing to sidestep the insensate Jew hatreds that are a fundamental component of islam'ism. The PLO eventually splintered into many different franchises of Islamic Terrorism Intl., Inc., but none of those franchises were any different from any of the other Islamic terrorist organizations In their core Islamist ideology. All of them demanded that "Moslem lands" be rid of Jews.

You and your Jew hate crap.

“Hamas has no problem with the Jews, the problem is only with the Israeli occupation which is based on the Zionism,” Haneya told reporters after the meeting.

Haneya praised the Jews who “expressed their rejection to the occupation” by joining the aid convoy. “You reject the existence of people on the land of other people, so we have nothing but to respect these positions and appreciate your ideology,” Haneya addressed the rabbis.

Gaza - Hamas Meets Neturei Karta Rabbis in Gaza Strip

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, anotherlife, et al,

It is a matter of perception.

I think it is not possible to conduct business if you don't have your own identity or if you only have an identity that is imposed upon you. So the Arab centric foundations are essential.

(COMMENT)

Most Belligerents, by the very nature of exhibiting or initiating some sort of continuous conflict or dedicated to an oath not to negotiate or sue for peace, is the most usual reason for a lack of territorial development. Elaborate security countermeasures divert critical funding, capital investments, venture capital contributions and reconstruction revenue for small business, commercial development, and residential establishments.

It is important to remember that, while not all Arab Centric programs, a vast majority are motivated by racism within Islam.

That is not true. It is illegal to annex occupied territory. The West Bank remained occupied Palestinian territory as it is still designated today. Jordan was merely considered to be the trustee of that territory.

(COMMENT)

First: It is pretty obvious that Israel really doesn't want to Annex the West Bank. If they did that, the Arab Palestinians flood the citizenship population and pick-up freedom of travel across the demarcation. The subterfuge of Jordanian Trusteeship is 100% bogus. But it makes no difference whether the territory was annex (which it was under the right of self-determination) or whether it was occupation. Once a situation exists which factually amounts to an occupation the law of occupation applies – whether or not the occupation is considered lawful.

View attachment 78606​

As you can see, between 1 August and 14 November 1988, the territory was abandon (Terra Nullius) by the Hashemite Kingdom with the announced intention not to return. There was no Arab Palestinian Authority to assume effective control.

Each pro-Palestinian argument is based on some assumption that

Most Respectfully,
R

Jordan's annexation was widely regarded as illegal and void by the Arab League and others. Elihu Lauterpacht described it as a move that "entirely lacked legal justification."

On 12 June 1950, the Arab League declared the annexation was a temporary, practical measure and that Jordan was holding the territory as a “trustee” pending a future settlement.

On 31 July 1988, Jordan renounced its claims to the West Bank (with the exception of guardianship over the Muslim holy sites in Jerusalem), and recognized the Palestine Liberation Organization as "the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people."

Jordanian occupation of the West Bank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

Of course the Palestinians, the legal inhabitants of the land, consider it occupied Palestinian territory.

Which just happen to be Jews don't they, and so you are once again demonstrating that you want to violate the Jews rights to a home land, free determination and territorial integrity on 22% of the lands of Palestine. Leaving the arab muslims 78% of Palestine as theirs.

Whay are you so set on removing the Jews rights to self determination and territorial integrity, when you push these for the Palestinians when hey already have them. Not Israel's fault the Palestinians are a fractured people with 3 enclaves instead of one unified nation.

What are you blabbering on about? Even the PLO recognized the native Jews as legitimate citizens of Palestine.

And so they have the right to declare independence on the land they have and invite the worlds Jews to migrate and settle.


OR ARE YOU ONCE AGAIN REFUSING TO GRANT THE JEWS THE SAME RIGHTS YOU DEMAND FOR THE PALESTINIAN ARAB MUSLIMS.

This is what the PLO had in mind as well when they made their charter, and removed the rights of the Jews to be Palestinians under international law. The Jews had the right to proclaim the land they were allocated in 1923 as the Jewish nation, the Palestinian arab muslims already had their nation in Trans Jordan. Would you like to do land swaps for all the Jewish lands stolen when trans Jordan was created ?

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, anotherlife, et al,

It is a matter of perception.

(COMMENT)

Most Belligerents, by the very nature of exhibiting or initiating some sort of continuous conflict or dedicated to an oath not to negotiate or sue for peace, is the most usual reason for a lack of territorial development. Elaborate security countermeasures divert critical funding, capital investments, venture capital contributions and reconstruction revenue for small business, commercial development, and residential establishments.

It is important to remember that, while not all Arab Centric programs, a vast majority are motivated by racism within Islam.

(COMMENT)

First: It is pretty obvious that Israel really doesn't want to Annex the West Bank. If they did that, the Arab Palestinians flood the citizenship population and pick-up freedom of travel across the demarcation. The subterfuge of Jordanian Trusteeship is 100% bogus. But it makes no difference whether the territory was annex (which it was under the right of self-determination) or whether it was occupation. Once a situation exists which factually amounts to an occupation the law of occupation applies – whether or not the occupation is considered lawful.

View attachment 78606​

As you can see, between 1 August and 14 November 1988, the territory was abandon (Terra Nullius) by the Hashemite Kingdom with the announced intention not to return. There was no Arab Palestinian Authority to assume effective control.

Each pro-Palestinian argument is based on some assumption that

Most Respectfully,
R

Jordan's annexation was widely regarded as illegal and void by the Arab League and others. Elihu Lauterpacht described it as a move that "entirely lacked legal justification."

On 12 June 1950, the Arab League declared the annexation was a temporary, practical measure and that Jordan was holding the territory as a “trustee” pending a future settlement.

On 31 July 1988, Jordan renounced its claims to the West Bank (with the exception of guardianship over the Muslim holy sites in Jerusalem), and recognized the Palestine Liberation Organization as "the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people."

Jordanian occupation of the West Bank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

Of course the Palestinians, the legal inhabitants of the land, consider it occupied Palestinian territory.

Which just happen to be Jews don't they, and so you are once again demonstrating that you want to violate the Jews rights to a home land, free determination and territorial integrity on 22% of the lands of Palestine. Leaving the arab muslims 78% of Palestine as theirs.

Whay are you so set on removing the Jews rights to self determination and territorial integrity, when you push these for the Palestinians when hey already have them. Not Israel's fault the Palestinians are a fractured people with 3 enclaves instead of one unified nation.

What are you blabbering on about? Even the PLO recognized the native Jews as legitimate citizens of Palestine.

How typically pointless. You should learn your Islamic terrorist history as the PLO used the islamo-slogan "liberation of Palestine" through armed struggle. This also included the goal of "destroying the existence of Zionism in the Middle East".

You're choosing to sidestep the insensate Jew hatreds that are a fundamental component of islam'ism. The PLO eventually splintered into many different franchises of Islamic Terrorism Intl., Inc., but none of those franchises were any different from any of the other Islamic terrorist organizations In their core Islamist ideology. All of them demanded that "Moslem lands" be rid of Jews.

You and your Jew hate crap.

“Hamas has no problem with the Jews, the problem is only with the Israeli occupation which is based on the Zionism,” Haneya told reporters after the meeting.

Haneya praised the Jews who “expressed their rejection to the occupation” by joining the aid convoy. “You reject the existence of people on the land of other people, so we have nothing but to respect these positions and appreciate your ideology,” Haneya addressed the rabbis.

Gaza - Hamas Meets Neturei Karta Rabbis in Gaza Strip

Islamonazi propaganda that has no meaning in the real world. Those Jews are speaking for 1,000 Jews only and not for all of Judaism.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, anotherlife, et al,

It is a matter of perception.

I think it is not possible to conduct business if you don't have your own identity or if you only have an identity that is imposed upon you. So the Arab centric foundations are essential.

(COMMENT)

Most Belligerents, by the very nature of exhibiting or initiating some sort of continuous conflict or dedicated to an oath not to negotiate or sue for peace, is the most usual reason for a lack of territorial development. Elaborate security countermeasures divert critical funding, capital investments, venture capital contributions and reconstruction revenue for small business, commercial development, and residential establishments.

It is important to remember that, while not all Arab Centric programs, a vast majority are motivated by racism within Islam.

That is not true. It is illegal to annex occupied territory. The West Bank remained occupied Palestinian territory as it is still designated today. Jordan was merely considered to be the trustee of that territory.

(COMMENT)

First: It is pretty obvious that Israel really doesn't want to Annex the West Bank. If they did that, the Arab Palestinians flood the citizenship population and pick-up freedom of travel across the demarcation. The subterfuge of Jordanian Trusteeship is 100% bogus. But it makes no difference whether the territory was annex (which it was under the right of self-determination) or whether it was occupation. Once a situation exists which factually amounts to an occupation the law of occupation applies – whether or not the occupation is considered lawful.

View attachment 78606​

As you can see, between 1 August and 14 November 1988, the territory was abandon (Terra Nullius) by the Hashemite Kingdom with the announced intention not to return. There was no Arab Palestinian Authority to assume effective control.

Each pro-Palestinian argument is based on some assumption that

Most Respectfully,
R

Jordan's annexation was widely regarded as illegal and void by the Arab League and others. Elihu Lauterpacht described it as a move that "entirely lacked legal justification."

On 12 June 1950, the Arab League declared the annexation was a temporary, practical measure and that Jordan was holding the territory as a “trustee” pending a future settlement.

On 31 July 1988, Jordan renounced its claims to the West Bank (with the exception of guardianship over the Muslim holy sites in Jerusalem), and recognized the Palestine Liberation Organization as "the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people."

Jordanian occupation of the West Bank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

Of course the Palestinians, the legal inhabitants of the land, consider it occupied Palestinian territory.

Which just happen to be Jews don't they, and so you are once again demonstrating that you want to violate the Jews rights to a home land, free determination and territorial integrity on 22% of the lands of Palestine. Leaving the arab muslims 78% of Palestine as theirs.

Whay are you so set on removing the Jews rights to self determination and territorial integrity, when you push these for the Palestinians when hey already have them. Not Israel's fault the Palestinians are a fractured people with 3 enclaves instead of one unified nation.

What are you blabbering on about? Even the PLO recognized the native Jews as legitimate citizens of Palestine.

And so they have the right to declare independence on the land they have and invite the worlds Jews to migrate and settle.


OR ARE YOU ONCE AGAIN REFUSING TO GRANT THE JEWS THE SAME RIGHTS YOU DEMAND FOR THE PALESTINIAN ARAB MUSLIMS.

This is what the PLO had in mind as well when they made their charter, and removed the rights of the Jews to be Palestinians under international law. The Jews had the right to proclaim the land they were allocated in 1923 as the Jewish nation, the Palestinian arab muslims already had their nation in Trans Jordan. Would you like to do land swaps for all the Jewish lands stolen when trans Jordan was created ?

OR ARE YOU ONCE AGAIN REFUSING TO GRANT THE JEWS THE SAME RIGHTS YOU DEMAND FOR THE PALESTINIAN ARAB MUSLIMS.​

Not true. All Palestinians had the same rights. That means that no one group could pig the place for themselves.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Jordan's annexation was widely regarded as illegal and void by the Arab League and others. Elihu Lauterpacht described it as a move that "entirely lacked legal justification."

On 12 June 1950, the Arab League declared the annexation was a temporary, practical measure and that Jordan was holding the territory as a “trustee” pending a future settlement.

On 31 July 1988, Jordan renounced its claims to the West Bank (with the exception of guardianship over the Muslim holy sites in Jerusalem), and recognized the Palestine Liberation Organization as "the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people."

Jordanian occupation of the West Bank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

Of course the Palestinians, the legal inhabitants of the land, consider it occupied Palestinian territory.

Which just happen to be Jews don't they, and so you are once again demonstrating that you want to violate the Jews rights to a home land, free determination and territorial integrity on 22% of the lands of Palestine. Leaving the arab muslims 78% of Palestine as theirs.

Whay are you so set on removing the Jews rights to self determination and territorial integrity, when you push these for the Palestinians when hey already have them. Not Israel's fault the Palestinians are a fractured people with 3 enclaves instead of one unified nation.

What are you blabbering on about? Even the PLO recognized the native Jews as legitimate citizens of Palestine.

How typically pointless. You should learn your Islamic terrorist history as the PLO used the islamo-slogan "liberation of Palestine" through armed struggle. This also included the goal of "destroying the existence of Zionism in the Middle East".

You're choosing to sidestep the insensate Jew hatreds that are a fundamental component of islam'ism. The PLO eventually splintered into many different franchises of Islamic Terrorism Intl., Inc., but none of those franchises were any different from any of the other Islamic terrorist organizations In their core Islamist ideology. All of them demanded that "Moslem lands" be rid of Jews.

You and your Jew hate crap.

“Hamas has no problem with the Jews, the problem is only with the Israeli occupation which is based on the Zionism,” Haneya told reporters after the meeting.

Haneya praised the Jews who “expressed their rejection to the occupation” by joining the aid convoy. “You reject the existence of people on the land of other people, so we have nothing but to respect these positions and appreciate your ideology,” Haneya addressed the rabbis.

Gaza - Hamas Meets Neturei Karta Rabbis in Gaza Strip

Islamonazi propaganda that has no meaning in the real world. Those Jews are speaking for 1,000 Jews only and not for all of Judaism.

Code Pink is a Jewish organization.

Hamas welcomes Code Pink Peace Delegation to Gaza part 1

 

[Hollie]

P F Tinmore, anotherlife, et al,

It is a matter of perception.

(COMMENT)

Most Belligerents, by the very nature of exhibiting or initiating some sort of continuous conflict or dedicated to an oath not to negotiate or sue for peace, is the most usual reason for a lack of territorial development. Elaborate security countermeasures divert critical funding, capital investments, venture capital contributions and reconstruction revenue for small business, commercial development, and residential establishments.

It is important to remember that, while not all Arab Centric programs, a vast majority are motivated by racism within Islam.

(COMMENT)

First: It is pretty obvious that Israel really doesn't want to Annex the West Bank. If they did that, the Arab Palestinians flood the citizenship population and pick-up freedom of travel across the demarcation. The subterfuge of Jordanian Trusteeship is 100% bogus. But it makes no difference whether the territory was annex (which it was under the right of self-determination) or whether it was occupation. Once a situation exists which factually amounts to an occupation the law of occupation applies – whether or not the occupation is considered lawful.

View attachment 78606​

As you can see, between 1 August and 14 November 1988, the territory was abandon (Terra Nullius) by the Hashemite Kingdom with the announced intention not to return. There was no Arab Palestinian Authority to assume effective control.

Each pro-Palestinian argument is based on some assumption that

Most Respectfully,
R

Jordan's annexation was widely regarded as illegal and void by the Arab League and others. Elihu Lauterpacht described it as a move that "entirely lacked legal justification."

On 12 June 1950, the Arab League declared the annexation was a temporary, practical measure and that Jordan was holding the territory as a “trustee” pending a future settlement.

On 31 July 1988, Jordan renounced its claims to the West Bank (with the exception of guardianship over the Muslim holy sites in Jerusalem), and recognized the Palestine Liberation Organization as "the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people."

Jordanian occupation of the West Bank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

Of course the Palestinians, the legal inhabitants of the land, consider it occupied Palestinian territory.

Which just happen to be Jews don't they, and so you are once again demonstrating that you want to violate the Jews rights to a home land, free determination and territorial integrity on 22% of the lands of Palestine. Leaving the arab muslims 78% of Palestine as theirs.

Whay are you so set on removing the Jews rights to self determination and territorial integrity, when you push these for the Palestinians when hey already have them. Not Israel's fault the Palestinians are a fractured people with 3 enclaves instead of one unified nation.

What are you blabbering on about? Even the PLO recognized the native Jews as legitimate citizens of Palestine.

How typically pointless. You should learn your Islamic terrorist history as the PLO used the islamo-slogan "liberation of Palestine" through armed struggle. This also included the goal of "destroying the existence of Zionism in the Middle East".

You're choosing to sidestep the insensate Jew hatreds that are a fundamental component of islam'ism. The PLO eventually splintered into many different franchises of Islamic Terrorism Intl., Inc., but none of those franchises were any different from any of the other Islamic terrorist organizations In their core Islamist ideology. All of them demanded that "Moslem lands" be rid of Jews.

You and your Jew hate crap.

“Hamas has no problem with the Jews, the problem is only with the Israeli occupation which is based on the Zionism,” Haneya told reporters after the meeting.

Haneya praised the Jews who “expressed their rejection to the occupation” by joining the aid convoy. “You reject the existence of people on the land of other people, so we have nothing but to respect these positions and appreciate your ideology,” Haneya addressed the rabbis.

Gaza - Hamas Meets Neturei Karta Rabbis in Gaza Strip

Now, now, tinmore. Tell us how many Jews are living in the Islamic terrorist enclave of Gaza'istan?

For that matter, identify a single muhammedan majority nation in the Islamist Middle East whose minority religious population is either all but extinct or under siege.

Identify one.

 

[anotherlife]

P F Tinmore, anotherlife, et al,

It is a matter of perception.

I think it is not possible to conduct business if you don't have your own identity or if you only have an identity that is imposed upon you. So the Arab centric foundations are essential.

(COMMENT)

Most Belligerents, by the very nature of exhibiting or initiating some sort of continuous conflict or dedicated to an oath not to negotiate or sue for peace, is the most usual reason for a lack of territorial development. Elaborate security countermeasures divert critical funding, capital investments, venture capital contributions and reconstruction revenue for small business, commercial development, and residential establishments.

It is important to remember that, while not all Arab Centric programs, a vast majority are motivated by racism within Islam.

That is not true. It is illegal to annex occupied territory. The West Bank remained occupied Palestinian territory as it is still designated today. Jordan was merely considered to be the trustee of that territory.

(COMMENT)

First: It is pretty obvious that Israel really doesn't want to Annex the West Bank. If they did that, the Arab Palestinians flood the citizenship population and pick-up freedom of travel across the demarcation. The subterfuge of Jordanian Trusteeship is 100% bogus. But it makes no difference whether the territory was annex (which it was under the right of self-determination) or whether it was occupation. Once a situation exists which factually amounts to an occupation the law of occupation applies – whether or not the occupation is considered lawful.

View attachment 78606​

As you can see, between 1 August and 14 November 1988, the territory was abandon (Terra Nullius) by the Hashemite Kingdom with the announced intention not to return. There was no Arab Palestinian Authority to assume effective control.

Each pro-Palestinian argument is based on some assumption that

Most Respectfully,
R

Jordan's annexation was widely regarded as illegal and void by the Arab League and others. Elihu Lauterpacht described it as a move that "entirely lacked legal justification."

On 12 June 1950, the Arab League declared the annexation was a temporary, practical measure and that Jordan was holding the territory as a “trustee” pending a future settlement.

On 31 July 1988, Jordan renounced its claims to the West Bank (with the exception of guardianship over the Muslim holy sites in Jerusalem), and recognized the Palestine Liberation Organization as "the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people."

Jordanian occupation of the West Bank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

Of course the Palestinians, the legal inhabitants of the land, consider it occupied Palestinian territory.

Which just happen to be Jews don't they, and so you are once again demonstrating that you want to violate the Jews rights to a home land, free determination and territorial integrity on 22% of the lands of Palestine. Leaving the arab muslims 78% of Palestine as theirs.

Whay are you so set on removing the Jews rights to self determination and territorial integrity, when you push these for the Palestinians when hey already have them. Not Israel's fault the Palestinians are a fractured people with 3 enclaves instead of one unified nation.

What are you blabbering on about? Even the PLO recognized the native Jews as legitimate citizens of Palestine.

And so they have the right to declare independence on the land they have and invite the worlds Jews to migrate and settle.


OR ARE YOU ONCE AGAIN REFUSING TO GRANT THE JEWS THE SAME RIGHTS YOU DEMAND FOR THE PALESTINIAN ARAB MUSLIMS.

This is what the PLO had in mind as well when they made their charter, and removed the rights of the Jews to be Palestinians under international law. The Jews had the right to proclaim the land they were allocated in 1923 as the Jewish nation, the Palestinian arab muslims already had their nation in Trans Jordan. Would you like to do land swaps for all the Jewish lands stolen when trans Jordan was created ?

Many Arab lands were assigned to be annexed by the planned Jew state in 1923. This was done at the excuse of needing a contiguous land area to unite the Jewish holdings. I think the real purpose of that 1923 was to plant the seeds of the ever
lasting conflict.

 

[Hollie]

Which just happen to be Jews don't they, and so you are once again demonstrating that you want to violate the Jews rights to a home land, free determination and territorial integrity on 22% of the lands of Palestine. Leaving the arab muslims 78% of Palestine as theirs.

Whay are you so set on removing the Jews rights to self determination and territorial integrity, when you push these for the Palestinians when hey already have them. Not Israel's fault the Palestinians are a fractured people with 3 enclaves instead of one unified nation.

What are you blabbering on about? Even the PLO recognized the native Jews as legitimate citizens of Palestine.

How typically pointless. You should learn your Islamic terrorist history as the PLO used the islamo-slogan "liberation of Palestine" through armed struggle. This also included the goal of "destroying the existence of Zionism in the Middle East".

You're choosing to sidestep the insensate Jew hatreds that are a fundamental component of islam'ism. The PLO eventually splintered into many different franchises of Islamic Terrorism Intl., Inc., but none of those franchises were any different from any of the other Islamic terrorist organizations In their core Islamist ideology. All of them demanded that "Moslem lands" be rid of Jews.

You and your Jew hate crap.

“Hamas has no problem with the Jews, the problem is only with the Israeli occupation which is based on the Zionism,” Haneya told reporters after the meeting.

Haneya praised the Jews who “expressed their rejection to the occupation” by joining the aid convoy. “You reject the existence of people on the land of other people, so we have nothing but to respect these positions and appreciate your ideology,” Haneya addressed the rabbis.

Gaza - Hamas Meets Neturei Karta Rabbis in Gaza Strip

Islamonazi propaganda that has no meaning in the real world. Those Jews are speaking for 1,000 Jews only and not for all of Judaism.

Code Pink is a Jewish organization.

Hamas welcomes Code Pink Peace Delegation to Gaza part 1

Code pink is a joke.
Obama, Code Pink and Egypt: 'There Are No Coincidences in Politics'

Obama, Code Pink and Egypt: 'There Are No Coincidences in Politics' - Breitbart


As the cliche goes, there are no coincidences in politics. Obama fundraiser group Code Pink just happened to have arrived in Cairo last week for the group’s ninth visit there in two years as part of its campaign to undermine the Mubarak government and help Hamas, the terrorist group that controls Gaza.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, there is room to quibble.

Jordan's annexation was widely regarded as illegal and void by the Arab League and others. Elihu Lauterpacht described it as a move that "entirely lacked legal justification."

​

On 12 June 1950, the Arab League declared the annexation was a temporary, practical measure and that Jordan was holding the territory as a “trustee” pending a future settlement.

(COMMENT)

​

As you are so fond of pointing out, under the Declarative Theory, recognition is not a requirement.

CONVENTION ON RIGHTS AND DUTIES OF STATES][/SIZE]
The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence, to provide for its conservation and prosperity, and consequently to organize itself as it sees fit, to legislate upon its interests, administer its services, and to define the jurisdiction and competence of its courts.

The exercise of these rights has no other limitation than the exercise of the rights of other states according to international law.

On 31 July 1988, Jordan renounced its claims to the West Bank (with the exception of guardianship over the Muslim holy sites in Jerusalem), and recognized the Palestine Liberation Organization as "the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people."

​

Jordanian occupation of the West Bank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(COMMENT)

Yes, this is cited but not an effective argument.

On 31 July 1988, the Hashemite Kingdom did disengage from the West Bank, but I believe you are mistaken about PLO recognition. During the Seventh Arab League Summit Conference, Rabat, Morocco 28 October 1974 the Arab League recognized the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) as the “sole and legitimate” representative of the Palestinian people, despite earlier objections by King Hussein of the Hashemite Kingdom, who had sought the role for himself. UN Resolution 3237 (XXIX) (1974) marks and frames the extend to which the PLO Observer Status may participate.

HAVING SAID all that, on 31 JULY 1988 did mark the absence and abandonment of the West Bank by Jordan, and the only established government remaining in effective control was Israel. The was no demonstration of effective control by the PLO or any other Arab activity in the West Bank. Whether of not we look at (arguably recognize) the Arab Palestinian inhabitance or not, they did not have effective control.

While the PLO was the sole legitimate representative or not, they did not have a successor government in place to establish effective control on 31 JULY 1988.

Of course the Palestinians, the legal inhabitants of the land, consider it occupied Palestinian territory.

(COMMENT)

Yeah, that seems to be the generally accepted status; but I think that is more the outcome of the fact that Israel was much more interested in the establishment of defensible borders; with virtually no interest in the Annexation of the West Bank. It was well within Israel's preview to contested the Arab Palestinian claim made in November 1988 (Independence). It was more the case that for Israel, the West Bank was generally dead wait, unable to meet Article 22 Criteria to be able to stand alone, and a bad investment politically and monetarily. Israel could simple not see any political or diplomatic advantage. As previously noted, in 1967, the US Chairman of the Joint Chief's (MEMO JCSM 373-67) indicated that "from a strict military point of view, Israel would require the retention of captured territory in order to provide militarily defensible borders."

The Arab Palestinian perspective, while real, did not (nor was any Arab really expected to) take into consideration as the paramount objective, as the preservation of the State of Israel and the absolute protection of the Jewish National Home. The individual member nations of the Arab League can be as militarily inept as many time as they attack, and they general just suffer casualties. Hell, the Israelis have the entire Egyptian 3d Army cut-off in the 1973 Yom Kipper War; with Israeli armor elements on the Egyptian side of the Suez Canal. BUT, if Israel loses just once, the Jewish National Home (JNH) falls into the hands of the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP). And since the JNH means much more to the Israelis as the do the lives, health, welfare, and economic and commercial growth does to the HoAP and Arab League in general, Israel must prepare a more than adequate defense today. It is in the position that no armed forces have come to the aid of the Jewish State in the past, and there is no reason to believe that allies would come to their defense in any future conflict to prevent the crush of the JNH. Israel can stand alone under Article 22 Criteria.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Hollie]

P F Tinmore, anotherlife, et al,

It is a matter of perception.

(COMMENT)

Most Belligerents, by the very nature of exhibiting or initiating some sort of continuous conflict or dedicated to an oath not to negotiate or sue for peace, is the most usual reason for a lack of territorial development. Elaborate security countermeasures divert critical funding, capital investments, venture capital contributions and reconstruction revenue for small business, commercial development, and residential establishments.

It is important to remember that, while not all Arab Centric programs, a vast majority are motivated by racism within Islam.

(COMMENT)

First: It is pretty obvious that Israel really doesn't want to Annex the West Bank. If they did that, the Arab Palestinians flood the citizenship population and pick-up freedom of travel across the demarcation. The subterfuge of Jordanian Trusteeship is 100% bogus. But it makes no difference whether the territory was annex (which it was under the right of self-determination) or whether it was occupation. Once a situation exists which factually amounts to an occupation the law of occupation applies – whether or not the occupation is considered lawful.

View attachment 78606​

As you can see, between 1 August and 14 November 1988, the territory was abandon (Terra Nullius) by the Hashemite Kingdom with the announced intention not to return. There was no Arab Palestinian Authority to assume effective control.

Each pro-Palestinian argument is based on some assumption that

Most Respectfully,
R

Jordan's annexation was widely regarded as illegal and void by the Arab League and others. Elihu Lauterpacht described it as a move that "entirely lacked legal justification."

On 12 June 1950, the Arab League declared the annexation was a temporary, practical measure and that Jordan was holding the territory as a “trustee” pending a future settlement.

On 31 July 1988, Jordan renounced its claims to the West Bank (with the exception of guardianship over the Muslim holy sites in Jerusalem), and recognized the Palestine Liberation Organization as "the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people."

Jordanian occupation of the West Bank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

Of course the Palestinians, the legal inhabitants of the land, consider it occupied Palestinian territory.

Which just happen to be Jews don't they, and so you are once again demonstrating that you want to violate the Jews rights to a home land, free determination and territorial integrity on 22% of the lands of Palestine. Leaving the arab muslims 78% of Palestine as theirs.

Whay are you so set on removing the Jews rights to self determination and territorial integrity, when you push these for the Palestinians when hey already have them. Not Israel's fault the Palestinians are a fractured people with 3 enclaves instead of one unified nation.

What are you blabbering on about? Even the PLO recognized the native Jews as legitimate citizens of Palestine.

And so they have the right to declare independence on the land they have and invite the worlds Jews to migrate and settle.


OR ARE YOU ONCE AGAIN REFUSING TO GRANT THE JEWS THE SAME RIGHTS YOU DEMAND FOR THE PALESTINIAN ARAB MUSLIMS.

This is what the PLO had in mind as well when they made their charter, and removed the rights of the Jews to be Palestinians under international law. The Jews had the right to proclaim the land they were allocated in 1923 as the Jewish nation, the Palestinian arab muslims already had their nation in Trans Jordan. Would you like to do land swaps for all the Jewish lands stolen when trans Jordan was created ?

Many Arab lands were assigned to be annexed by the planned Jew state in 1923. This was done at the excuse of needing a contiguous land area to unite the Jewish holdings. I think the real purpose of that 1923 was to plant the seeds of the ever
lasting conflict.

You will find a select few in this forum to mouth the bait for such conspiracy theories.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, there is room to quibble.

Jordan's annexation was widely regarded as illegal and void by the Arab League and others. Elihu Lauterpacht described it as a move that "entirely lacked legal justification."

​

On 12 June 1950, the Arab League declared the annexation was a temporary, practical measure and that Jordan was holding the territory as a “trustee” pending a future settlement.

(COMMENT)

​

As you are so fond of pointing out, under the Declarative Theory, recognition is not a requirement.

CONVENTION ON RIGHTS AND DUTIES OF STATES][/SIZE]
The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence, to provide for its conservation and prosperity, and consequently to organize itself as it sees fit, to legislate upon its interests, administer its services, and to define the jurisdiction and competence of its courts.

The exercise of these rights has no other limitation than the exercise of the rights of other states according to international law.

On 31 July 1988, Jordan renounced its claims to the West Bank (with the exception of guardianship over the Muslim holy sites in Jerusalem), and recognized the Palestine Liberation Organization as "the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people."

​

Jordanian occupation of the West Bank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(COMMENT)

Yes, this is cited but not an effective argument.

On 31 July 1988, the Hashemite Kingdom did disengage from the West Bank, but I believe you are mistaken about PLO recognition. During the Seventh Arab League Summit Conference, Rabat, Morocco 28 October 1974 the Arab League recognized the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) as the “sole and legitimate” representative of the Palestinian people, despite earlier objections by King Hussein of the Hashemite Kingdom, who had sought the role for himself. UN Resolution 3237 (XXIX) (1974) marks and frames the extend to which the PLO Observer Status may participate.

HAVING SAID all that, on 31 JULY 1988 did mark the absence and abandonment of the West Bank by Jordan, and the only established government remaining in effective control was Israel. The was no demonstration of effective control by the PLO or any other Arab activity in the West Bank. Whether of not we look at (arguably recognize) the Arab Palestinian inhabitance or not, they did not have effective control.

While the PLO was the sole legitimate representative or not, they did not have a successor government in place to establish effective control on 31 JULY 1988.

Of course the Palestinians, the legal inhabitants of the land, consider it occupied Palestinian territory.

(COMMENT)

Yeah, that seems to be the generally accepted status; but I think that is more the outcome of the fact that Israel was much more interested in the establishment of defensible borders; with virtually no interest in the Annexation of the West Bank. It was well within Israel's preview to contested the Arab Palestinian claim made in November 1988 (Independence). It was more the case that for Israel, the West Bank was generally dead wait, unable to meet Article 22 Criteria to be able to stand alone, and a bad investment politically and monetarily. Israel could simple not see any political or diplomatic advantage. As previously noted, in 1967, the US Chairman of the Joint Chief's (MEMO JCSM 373-67) indicated that "from a strict military point of view, Israel would require the retention of captured territory in order to provide militarily defensible borders."

The Arab Palestinian perspective, while real, did not (nor was any Arab really expected to) take into consideration as the paramount objective, as the preservation of the State of Israel and the absolute protection of the Jewish National Home. The individual member nations of the Arab League can be as militarily inept as many time as they attack, and they general just suffer casualties. Hell, the Israelis have the entire Egyptian 3d Army cut-off in the 1973 Yom Kipper War; with Israeli armor elements on the Egyptian side of the Suez Canal. BUT, if Israel loses just once, the Jewish National Home (JNH) falls into the hands of the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP). And since the JNH means much more to the Israelis as the do the lives, health, welfare, and economic and commercial growth does to the HoAP and Arab League in general, Israel must prepare a more than adequate defense today. It is in the position that no armed forces have come to the aid of the Jewish State in the past, and there is no reason to believe that allies would come to their defense in any future conflict to prevent the crush of the JNH. Israel can stand alone under Article 22 Criteria.

Most Respectfully,
R

While the PLO was the sole legitimate representative or not, they did not have a successor government in place to establish effective control on 31 JULY 1988.​

You keep posting this piece of irrelevance. A government and state are the results of the exercise of the right to self determination, not a prerequisite.

The prevention of this exercise by foreign powers is illegal external interference.

 

[RoccoR]

anotherlife, et al,

When I came home and took my final posting on the front porch with my dog, I left behind a system. In many Embassies (not all) across the world (but especially troubled states), you will find a section call the Rule of Law (RoL) (most of the time it is a Department of Justice activity); and you'll find an adjacent section for International Narcotics and Law Enforcement Affairs (INL) (most of the time a StateDepartment Activity). This is not a new set of programs; nor are they likely to last long in their current form. But the intent is to enhance the understandings of the need for consistent laws, and promote the substantive provisions of domestic civil and criminal laws, including the Hague Conventions of 1899 and 1907, are considered as embodying rules of customary international law.

Under the concept of the customary international law (focusing on our topic of Justice for the Palestinians --- and the safety and protection of the Palestinian civilians under Israeli occupation), the First Principle of Law is (besides play nice with others) all States (Israel and Palestine included) shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means. And of course, the Second Big Principle is DO NOT intervene in matters within the domestic jurisdiction of any State (Israel and Palestine included).

In legalese we say: play nice and stay in you own yard. I know that is is hard for some people to get it (I see them argue these basics all the time), but that is the summation of the salient points. These are the foundation upon which all the associated principles are derived concerning "friendly diplomatic relations." It is the connection to the discussions we have on the application for wars of aggression.

If you forget where you are in the argument in the discussion of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict (or any conflict for that matter), just ask yourself:

• Does my argument violate the Principle of: Play Nice"
• Does my argument violate the Principle of: Stay IN YOUR Own Yard.
​

But this logic does nothing but legalize the same powers that create the conflict in the first place, buy making it legal to take away the working people's land, money, and identity, only to continue the conflict.

(COMMENT)

There was a famous Federal Judge (when I was you and starting out) wrote two book called: Economic Analysis of Law, The Economics of Justice; by Judge Richard Posner. Few books ever shifted my way of thinking than these two books.

First, let's make this very clear: There is nothing about sovereignty that deals with "the working people's land, money, and identity, only to continue the conflict."
Second: Nothing about sovereignty has anything to do with "by making it legal to take away the working people's land, money, and identity."

One is about national authority, and the other is about malfeasance under the color of law. The intent to "continue the conflict" is merely a variation on the theme to violate "PLAY NICE and STAY IN YOUR OWN YARD."

Remember, if the lawmakers in D.C. decides to sell the State of Ohio to Canada, I still own my own home, own my money, and have an identity for the internet to steal. Yes a lot changes. I'll have to learn the words to "Oh Canada," get an Oak Leak Flag, change my Passport, I'll pay taxes to Ottawa instead of D.C., I'll have smarter politicians and less corrupt government, and I'll have to find a picture of Queen ELIZABETH II and figure out who the Governor General... Yeah there would be a few minor adjustments, but I could get there from here. I guess instead of being an Italian American, I would be a American-Canadian. (I'll just say Canadian, it rolls of the tongue easier.

Legalese is the modern word for such clever looting against farmers.

(COMMENT)

Well, there are always two sides to every coin and five sides to a pyramid; and for something as complicated as the Palestinian conflict - we would need to have the 12 sides of a dodecahedron (we might even have to stick two of them together).

Something peripheral to this issue is the idea that no matter how bad things have been between the Israelis and the Arab Palestinians,

Litmus was a crook. It is sad that anything he said is now called a test. So I don't understand your point.

(COMMENT)

Yes, I like this. I think Litmus (the compound) Paper and Tests go back to (oh I don't know) four, five or six centuries. Well before Sir Isaac Newton, and there were no NAZI's then, coming ≈200 years later.

The Litmus Test as a description can apply to philosophical discussions. It just means a decisive test.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Boston1]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, there is room to quibble.

Jordan's annexation was widely regarded as illegal and void by the Arab League and others. Elihu Lauterpacht described it as a move that "entirely lacked legal justification."

​

On 12 June 1950, the Arab League declared the annexation was a temporary, practical measure and that Jordan was holding the territory as a “trustee” pending a future settlement.

(COMMENT)

​

As you are so fond of pointing out, under the Declarative Theory, recognition is not a requirement.

CONVENTION ON RIGHTS AND DUTIES OF STATES][/SIZE]
The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence, to provide for its conservation and prosperity, and consequently to organize itself as it sees fit, to legislate upon its interests, administer its services, and to define the jurisdiction and competence of its courts.

The exercise of these rights has no other limitation than the exercise of the rights of other states according to international law.

On 31 July 1988, Jordan renounced its claims to the West Bank (with the exception of guardianship over the Muslim holy sites in Jerusalem), and recognized the Palestine Liberation Organization as "the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people."

​

Jordanian occupation of the West Bank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(COMMENT)

Yes, this is cited but not an effective argument.

On 31 July 1988, the Hashemite Kingdom did disengage from the West Bank, but I believe you are mistaken about PLO recognition. During the Seventh Arab League Summit Conference, Rabat, Morocco 28 October 1974 the Arab League recognized the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) as the “sole and legitimate” representative of the Palestinian people, despite earlier objections by King Hussein of the Hashemite Kingdom, who had sought the role for himself. UN Resolution 3237 (XXIX) (1974) marks and frames the extend to which the PLO Observer Status may participate.

HAVING SAID all that, on 31 JULY 1988 did mark the absence and abandonment of the West Bank by Jordan, and the only established government remaining in effective control was Israel. The was no demonstration of effective control by the PLO or any other Arab activity in the West Bank. Whether of not we look at (arguably recognize) the Arab Palestinian inhabitance or not, they did not have effective control.

While the PLO was the sole legitimate representative or not, they did not have a successor government in place to establish effective control on 31 JULY 1988.

Of course the Palestinians, the legal inhabitants of the land, consider it occupied Palestinian territory.

(COMMENT)

Yeah, that seems to be the generally accepted status; but I think that is more the outcome of the fact that Israel was much more interested in the establishment of defensible borders; with virtually no interest in the Annexation of the West Bank. It was well within Israel's preview to contested the Arab Palestinian claim made in November 1988 (Independence). It was more the case that for Israel, the West Bank was generally dead wait, unable to meet Article 22 Criteria to be able to stand alone, and a bad investment politically and monetarily. Israel could simple not see any political or diplomatic advantage. As previously noted, in 1967, the US Chairman of the Joint Chief's (MEMO JCSM 373-67) indicated that "from a strict military point of view, Israel would require the retention of captured territory in order to provide militarily defensible borders."

The Arab Palestinian perspective, while real, did not (nor was any Arab really expected to) take into consideration as the paramount objective, as the preservation of the State of Israel and the absolute protection of the Jewish National Home. The individual member nations of the Arab League can be as militarily inept as many time as they attack, and they general just suffer casualties. Hell, the Israelis have the entire Egyptian 3d Army cut-off in the 1973 Yom Kipper War; with Israeli armor elements on the Egyptian side of the Suez Canal. BUT, if Israel loses just once, the Jewish National Home (JNH) falls into the hands of the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP). And since the JNH means much more to the Israelis as the do the lives, health, welfare, and economic and commercial growth does to the HoAP and Arab League in general, Israel must prepare a more than adequate defense today. It is in the position that no armed forces have come to the aid of the Jewish State in the past, and there is no reason to believe that allies would come to their defense in any future conflict to prevent the crush of the JNH. Israel can stand alone under Article 22 Criteria.

Most Respectfully,
R

While the PLO was the sole legitimate representative or not, they did not have a successor government in place to establish effective control on 31 JULY 1988.​

You keep posting this piece of irrelevance. A government and state are the results of the exercise of the right to self determination, not a prerequisite.

The prevention of this exercise by foreign powers is illegal external interference.

Are you daft ? How is it irrelevant that while the PLO made claims they were unable to act on those claims through their own incompetence.

They didn't have the knowledge or the skill necessary to implement any effective governance and so any claims they might have made are made void in the wake of anarchy.

Get over it ;--)

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This makes no sense. Either you have a government exercising authority over a defined area, or you do not. The "right" gets you nothing. To say that you have a state because you can write it on a piece of paper means nothing. Do you actually have control of some territory?

While the PLO was the sole legitimate representative or not, they did not have a successor government in place to establish effective control on 31 JULY 1988.

You keep posting this piece of irrelevance. A government and state are the results of the exercise of the right to self determination, not a prerequisite.

The prevention of this exercise by foreign powers is illegal external interference.

(QUESTION)

To say that you have a state because you can write it on a piece of paper means nothing.

Do you actually have control of some territory?
Did you have control of any territory in the region between 1948 and 1967?​

• What territory did the ArabPalestinians have effective or exclusive control on 1 August 1988?
• What was the name of sovereignty over the territory to which Israel represented an external interference?

There was a State of War initiate by the Arab League in 1948 involving the West Bank. The Jordanians broke the ceasefire by engaging Israeli forces in 1967. When hostilities resumed and Jordanian forces withdrew:

• What country established effective control?

For whatever excuse you want to give, the Arab Palestinians could not establish a functioning government. The Arab Palestinians could not elect and peacefully hand-off the government from the old to the new regime.

MostRespectfully,
R

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, anotherlife, et al,

It is a matter of perception.

(COMMENT)

Most Belligerents, by the very nature of exhibiting or initiating some sort of continuous conflict or dedicated to an oath not to negotiate or sue for peace, is the most usual reason for a lack of territorial development. Elaborate security countermeasures divert critical funding, capital investments, venture capital contributions and reconstruction revenue for small business, commercial development, and residential establishments.

It is important to remember that, while not all Arab Centric programs, a vast majority are motivated by racism within Islam.

(COMMENT)

First: It is pretty obvious that Israel really doesn't want to Annex the West Bank. If they did that, the Arab Palestinians flood the citizenship population and pick-up freedom of travel across the demarcation. The subterfuge of Jordanian Trusteeship is 100% bogus. But it makes no difference whether the territory was annex (which it was under the right of self-determination) or whether it was occupation. Once a situation exists which factually amounts to an occupation the law of occupation applies – whether or not the occupation is considered lawful.

View attachment 78606​

As you can see, between 1 August and 14 November 1988, the territory was abandon (Terra Nullius) by the Hashemite Kingdom with the announced intention not to return. There was no Arab Palestinian Authority to assume effective control.

Each pro-Palestinian argument is based on some assumption that

Most Respectfully,
R

Jordan's annexation was widely regarded as illegal and void by the Arab League and others. Elihu Lauterpacht described it as a move that "entirely lacked legal justification."

On 12 June 1950, the Arab League declared the annexation was a temporary, practical measure and that Jordan was holding the territory as a “trustee” pending a future settlement.

On 31 July 1988, Jordan renounced its claims to the West Bank (with the exception of guardianship over the Muslim holy sites in Jerusalem), and recognized the Palestine Liberation Organization as "the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people."

Jordanian occupation of the West Bank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

Of course the Palestinians, the legal inhabitants of the land, consider it occupied Palestinian territory.

Which just happen to be Jews don't they, and so you are once again demonstrating that you want to violate the Jews rights to a home land, free determination and territorial integrity on 22% of the lands of Palestine. Leaving the arab muslims 78% of Palestine as theirs.

Whay are you so set on removing the Jews rights to self determination and territorial integrity, when you push these for the Palestinians when hey already have them. Not Israel's fault the Palestinians are a fractured people with 3 enclaves instead of one unified nation.

What are you blabbering on about? Even the PLO recognized the native Jews as legitimate citizens of Palestine.

And so they have the right to declare independence on the land they have and invite the worlds Jews to migrate and settle.


OR ARE YOU ONCE AGAIN REFUSING TO GRANT THE JEWS THE SAME RIGHTS YOU DEMAND FOR THE PALESTINIAN ARAB MUSLIMS.

This is what the PLO had in mind as well when they made their charter, and removed the rights of the Jews to be Palestinians under international law. The Jews had the right to proclaim the land they were allocated in 1923 as the Jewish nation, the Palestinian arab muslims already had their nation in Trans Jordan. Would you like to do land swaps for all the Jewish lands stolen when trans Jordan was created ?

OR ARE YOU ONCE AGAIN REFUSING TO GRANT THE JEWS THE SAME RIGHTS YOU DEMAND FOR THE PALESTINIAN ARAB MUSLIMS.​

Not true. All Palestinians had the same rights. That means that no one group could pig the place for themselves.

And that is exactly what the arab muslims are trying to do, not being content with 78% of Palestine they also want the 22% that is Israel.
Then passing laws to make it illegal for Jews to set foot on Palestinian lands to the east of the Jordan, which is still part of the mandate of palestine
ONCE AGAIN PROVING THAT YOU DONT WANT TO GRANT THE JEWS THE SAME RIGHTS YOU DEMAND FOR THE ARAB MUSLIMS.

Jewish Palestinians are denied the same rights as arab muslim Palestinians when it comes to access to religious sites. Even though those sites have no significance to the Islamic religion what so ever.
Jewish Palestinians are denied the right to territorial integrity and self determination by the arab muslim Palestinians propaganda and belligerence for which they should be censured harshly.
Jewish Palestinians are denied the right to live in peace behind secure borders by constant arab muslim Palestinian illegal attacks


So admit that you don't want the Jews to be given the same rights as the arab muslims because you are a racist POS islamonazi