Just Say No to Detroit

[aztech]

Richard...some questions for you..

1. What is a US made car? A Car made in the US or a car made by a company with it's global HQ in the US? Cause there is no such thing as a US made vehicle any longer.

2. At what credit score do you propose the government offer such loans to people...or should they give them to everyone?

3. What about the banks, credit unions who are operating well...who make their money from auto loans, do you want them to go tits up?

 

[NOBama]

Crap. I went to Public Schools and don't know how to handle so many negatives... If I vote Yes does that mean I want to say Yes to Detroit or No? Obama will know what to do. I'll just ask him how I should vote. PRAISE OBAMA!

Hmmm... Here's a test to help comprehend whether or not you understand the question. It's only 3 steps.

1. Hold a pencil at arms length and eye level. Note: Unless your a Liberal you can invision this step,
so move on to Step 2.

2. Ask yourself: Self, is that a pencil or a pen that I'm holding at arms length and eye level?


3. Multiple choice answer:

• A. It is a pencil
• B. It is a pen
• C. None of the above

If you answered C then you probably answered the poll question correctly.

If you answered A or B:

 

[NOBama]

Zapped by Nobama. T'was actually a duplicate post that happened during the site problems earlier.

 

[Turboswede]

The one way I would put it is not on there. And that is, yes I would bail them out under the condition that they restructure.

Unfortuantely it is sounding doubtful that the UAW is going to do that. The head of which was on the radio as late as yesterday saying they were going to concede basically nothing.

It’s not all the UAW’s fault. The UAW has been working with Ford for 2 years to get the NLRB to change the terms of the older CB agreements to limit retiree medical benefits and cut pension funding requirements. The Union mouthpieces need to show that they are standing up to the executives, but they know that without joint action between Labor & Industry the big 3 are hosed. The NLRB has ruled that a change to those old CB agreements would be a breach of contract on the part of Ford and a breach of fiduciary duty on the part of the UAW so they stand. The only way they get renegotiated is in a chapter 11 bankruptcy.

It’s not what UAW members are making now that’s the problem (union workers are at $27/hr while Toyota workers are at $25) it’s what the bargaining agreements of the 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80’s provided union members in terms of retiree healthcare. The agreements were put in place before healthcare costs spun out of control in the 90’s and when average life expectancy was shorter.

Toyota backs off wage parity at new plants - Motor Trend The General Forum Forum

And why is everyone always picking on the UAW workers? I think executive compensation it is far more of an issue than harping on the UAW. For Example, in 2003 Hiroshi Okuda the CEO of Toyota received compensation of $903,000.

Executive Pay: what the bosses make

For the same year the FoMoCo proxy states that William Clay Ford, Jr. received:

• $1,500,000 in salary
• $1,503,000 in Restricted Shares (not considered income for tax)
• $ 11,560,000 in Stock Options (not considered for income tax)

For a total compensatory payment of about $14.5 Million dollars or about 15 times what the CEO of Toyota made in the same year.

In fact, Mr. Okuda’s compensation was so low, according to SEC rules, if he were a Ford employee it wound not have required disclosure.

So, is it the UAW’s fault for getting 8% more for their workers, or the shareholder’s fault for agreeing to pay the CEO 1500% more than the Same position at Toyota?

 

[Richard-H]

Richard...some questions for you..

1. What is a US made car? A Car made in the US or a car made by a company with it's global HQ in the US? Cause there is no such thing as a US made vehicle any longer.

2. At what credit score do you propose the government offer such loans to people...or should they give them to everyone?

3. What about the banks, credit unions who are operating well...who make their money from auto loans, do you want them to go tits up?

1. Enough manufacturing of cars in the U.S. by the U.S. manufacturers still goes on that it will severely effect the U.S. economy if they go under. While manufacturing has become an almost infinitely complex system of sub-contractors from numerous countries, that fact that some of the work is done outside the U.S. doesn't mean that a huge amount doesn't happen here: A Mexican factory may do the final assembly, but they may very well use American made ball bearings.

2. It would probably be better to give tax breaks than direct loans. But until the lenders start loosening up, the government should do it. It would be a good impetous to get the banks back into the lendin business again.

3. See 2. above. Since the banks don't want to lend money anynore - screw 'em.

 

[editec]

The one way I would put it is not on there. And that is, yes I would bail them out under the condition that they restructure.

By 2010 all new hires will cost the Big Three about the same as the foreign car makers pay.

The Big Three will have to jettison a lot of currently workers, too. depsite the fact that they've already cut productions lines by 40% or so.

Unfortuantely it is sounding doubtful that the UAW is going to do that. The head of which was on the radio as late as yesterday saying they were going to concede basically nothing.

What's left?

 

[editec]

The best way for the auto industry to recover is to SELL CARS!

Okay for the good of my nation, if you insist, Richard.

I'll accept a new Cadillac if the government wants to buy me one. I can't afford to move it, but I can make a planter out of it or soemthing.

If the government has to give them some money (hopefully in return for some equity), just to get them thru this credit crunch, O.K. but...it's the SELLING THE CARS thing that counts.

EVERYTHING MUST GO! DETROIT IS​

Going out of business! Going out of business! Going out of business!

Here's what they should do:

First, the auto industry & government have to come up with a plan to make the auto makers solvent into the foreseeable future - restructure.

And, if you buy any two cars off the lot and you get FREE HEALTH CARE!

Second, the government should regulate executive compensation - it should be proportional to profits.

News Flash!​

Henry Ford XXVII arrived in Washington today in his company executive Yugo Sedan to ask for another bailout from Congress.

He also asked for an advance on his weekly allowance -- which Congress did not do, but they did validate his parking, and buy him a ham sandwich from one of the machines in the basement.

Third, the auto industry should reduce the price of cars as much as possible to off load inventory.

If they tape a new Chevrolet as an encentive to every pack of cigarettes, that should drive up GM's market share, don't you think?

Fourth, the government should use some of the $700bil package offer 0%, no down payment loans to all U.S. citizens for purchasing U.S. made cars. (maybe a tax break would be a better idea instead).

Then, just for chuckles, let's make US 80 one way west, and watch California sink under the waves, too. No offense Californians, but really... do we really want 80,000 new cars on the road?

Fifth, the government should write the tax laws so that it would be beneficial for companies to start giving reasonable raises again (The true root of our present economic problems).

An employee profit sharing stock plan is the route I'd map out to do that.

In fact trading in their pension and health care benefits for it might be just the motivation the employees need, too.

Sixth, the government should instate a 50% income tax increase on everyone who voted Republican. They could call it a stupidity tax.

Only on those making less than $250,000 a year, though.

One cannot blame the truly weathy for voting for their class interests, after all. They're NOT stupid.

 

[glockmail]

The one way I would put it is not on there. And that is, yes I would bail them out under the condition that they restructure.

Unfortuantely it is sounding doubtful that the UAW is going to do that. The head of which was on the radio as late as yesterday saying they were going to concede basically nothing.

The only way to restructure the UAW is to let their employers go bankrupt. Their current agreements cannot be renegotiated otherwise.