Just kill the health bill, please!

[MaggieMae]

Dems had enough votes before. Why didn't they pass it then?

Huh? It passed out of the House and then out of the Senate. Hello? It then went to conference (the usual route) to create a single bill. Pay attention. Oops, too late now.

If the House had already approved the Senate Version of the Bill, Obama would have signed it by now. The current frenzy to twist the rules is because the House hasn't approved it.

I see a civics lesson is needed.
Project Vote Smart - GOVERNMENT 101: How a Bill Becomes Law

D.
Conference Committee


1.Members from each house form a conference committee and meet to work out the differences. The committee is usually made up of senior members who are appointed by the presiding officers of the committee that originally dealt with the bill. The representatives from each house work to maintain their version of the bill.
2.If the Conference Committee reaches a compromise, it prepares a written conference report, which is submitted to each chamber.
3.The conference report must be approved by both the House and the Senate.

OR, you can go to the extended explanation here:

How Our Laws are Made - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

 

[AvgGuyIA]

I don't support this Democrat proposal basically because i don't think it solves any problems. In fact it will likely make things much worse in my opinion. What's going to happen when the Democrats give Amnesty to some 30 Million Illegals? All will have to be covered under this plan. So their $Trillion plan will likely cost ten times that original number. In fact all of their numbers are very low estimates and will not add up in the end. I take Dr. Paul's word when he says he has never seen a spending bill that cost what they said originally. This just isn't the right time for something like this. We're just too far in debt already. This could be done in the future if we get our house in order. The Democrat's timing is just all wrong. I know they mean well but their proposal just isn't the answer. I don't want to demonize them i just think they're wrong on this one. I guess we'll see where it all ends up though.

Go spank yourself for even throwing out this bone.

 

[MaggieMae]

Republican soldiers!

Armey's Army. Hey, he's gotta do something to maintain his personal lifestyle after getting canned by his lobbying firm. So he formed his own and drew in a lot of sucker donations.

 

[MaggieMae]

One couldn't possibly be this blind and/or stupid. This bill does nothing at all to trim costs, and in fact most of its provisions don't even kick in until 2014.

Idiot stick.

As it currently stands, there ARE a few provisions that would have immediate effect:

Barring lifetime limits on coverage.

Allowing young people up to age 26 to remain on their parents' policies.

Some temporary aid for the uninsured to provide coverage for people who have trouble getting coverage with preexisting conditions.

Expansion of community health centers, where consumers could go for care.

Uh-huh. But as I said, and apparently you didn't or can't read:

Most of it though, waits four or more years, while costs continue to skyrocket, taxes increase, penalties for no coverage levied.

Sounds like a GOOD deal, huh?

Sure you really want to kill it?

Oh fuck you, Mr. Perfection. I responded without any snarky bullshit. You, on the other hand, are NEVER able to do the same.

 

[AvgGuyIA]

Dems had enough votes before. Why didn't they pass it then?

Huh? It passed out of the House and then out of the Senate. Hello? It then went to conference (the usual route) to create a single bill. Pay attention. Oops, too late now.

They still needed 60 votes to approve the final bill that was going through conference. Scott "#41" Brown queered that chance.

Gee, I wonder why the Democraps took so long to get it through the normal conference route?

 

[MaggieMae]

Lost on you apparently is the fact that the Dems could have passed health care reform quite easily, had they only crafted a bill that was palatable to 100% of its own legislators.

GOP votes and support weren't needed, a reasonable bill, was.

Oh please...Republicans had their soldiers all lined up even before Obama took office knowing health care was his #1 priority.

Fact or not, what does it have to do with the FACT they could have easily passed a HC bill without any GOP support or votes at all?

Read slow: The Democrats had a SUPER MAJORITY that was bulletproof. They didn't need ANY GOP support or votes whatsoever.

But they OVER REACHED and made this mess UNPALATABLE to a good number of their OWN caucus.

Just like it's UNPALATABLE to YOU right now!

I don't intend to discuss this with YOU. Maybe if you weren't such a horse's ass...

 

[MaggieMae]

If it's so great, they would have published it for everyone to read by now.

WOT??? Take your pick, and happy reading.

current versions of health care bill - Google Search

 

[MaggieMae]

Main Entry: coup d'état
Variant(s): or coup d'etat \ˌkü-(&#716dā-ˈtä, ˈkü-(&#716dā-ˌ, -də-\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural coups d'état or coups d'etat \-ˈtä(z), -ˌtä(z)\
Etymology: French, literally, stroke of state
Date: 1646
: a sudden decisive exercise of force in politics; especially : the violent overthrow or alteration of an existing government by a small group

Coup d'etat - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

And here I thought that was the goal of all you "freedom fighters" out there who are locked and loaded ready to storm the White House and do armed combat with the US Military.

A health care bill is a "violent" overthrow? You need to return to Uranus, that other planet you live on.

 

[MaggieMae]

there has never been a situation where a person who opts out of Medicare Part A has lost Social Security benefits

Link?

There isn't one, which is my point. You can check out the FAQs in both Social Security and Medicare's main websites, or just Google the words yourself. You will come up with nothing, because this lawsuit is some sort of precedent setting thing. Again, it most certainly does not fall within the purview of the court system because no one has YET been "injured" by not having Medicare as their insurer of choice. Even the DHHS response to the complaint specifies the ambiguity in the complaint.

 

[boedicca]

There isn't one, which is my point. You can check out the FAQs in both Social Security and Medicare's main websites, or just Google the words yourself. You will come up with nothing, because this lawsuit is some sort of precedent setting thing. Again, it most certainly does not fall within the purview of the court system because no one has YET been "injured" by not having Medicare as their insurer of choice. Even the DHHS response to the complaint specifies the ambiguity in the complaint.

That's not true. At least five people who are plaintiffs to a lawsuit feel harmed.

The defendants' websites are not a very reliable sources of objective info to the contrary.

 

[MaggieMae]

While there are instances where people have opted out of Social Security, there has never been a situation where a person who opts out of Medicare Part A has lost Social Security benefits, so once more, Armey's charge is not true.

The only part that's true is that there is no law that "forces" anyone to pull out that little blue card and charge medical expenses to Medicare. You can pay for your health care with any little card you so desire. So I still fail to see what the big deal is. "Suing the government" appears to be based on a political stance that would be better solved by a legal determination of the Social Security/Medicare provisions covering this specific issue, which is a CONGRESSIONAL job, not one that the courts should get involved with. Where are the "damages" justifying a lawsuit?

How do you know this? The implication of your claim is that you think Hall is lying and the AARP is cooperating in that lie. Given the ideological bent of the AARP, that would be very surprising. It also makes little sense that lawyers, who are notoriously fee driven, would take a suit based upon a complete fabrication.

What are the damages? Medicare Part A is the default insurance of a senior. More and more doctors are opting out of Medicare; in some areas supply is very constrained. I also recall a Mayo Clinic facility in AZ saying recently that it was ceasing care for Medicare patients.

The damages are the individual not having any choice in his care, which could be life threatening. Why should a person be prevented from securing private insurance via a threat of reduced SS benefits? This is Statist Thuggishness in the extreme.

Given the huge looming deficits for Medicare, people of means opting out would be in the public interest, which makes this even more of a case of subordinating the interests of the public to the interests of the Big Government bureaucracy.

What makes you think a person can't pay a doctor any way he wants? Why do you think a doctor's office asks to see your Medicare card in the first place? You don't have to show it; you can fill out that other blank on the form that says "How will you be paying for this visit" if you want to.

 

[MaggieMae]

Uh. They haven't published the bill. We have no idea what is actually in the current version. There are No Facts To Check.

You don't know what is in the reconciliation draft yet because it isn't finished. Duh... But you're continuing to say that you cannot READ both the House and Senate versions, which you obviously can. End of THAT discussion, I hope.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Lyrics: (To the tune of "My Girl Bill")

Kill, the bill
Kill kill, the bill
How may times do we got to tell you kill the
Kill the bill

From conception to reality, REALLY fast!

Click below to listen, and spread this wealth around.... LIBERALLY!

Kill the Bill -- Midnight Marauder | Excellence in Podcasting Networks

Pelosi's hands were shaking, as she gripped the podium
She was twitching and blinking, like being hit with a taser.
She knows the gig is up, that she doesn't have the votes.
All we've been saying to her is kill the.... Bill

Kill the bill
Kill kill the bill
How many times do we gotta tell you kill the
Kill the bill.

Obama's out there flapping, delaying trips and other things
He seems to be a slow learner, and has trouble with math.
He says his plan will reduce costs 3000 percent -- now where did he get that?
When all we've tried to tell him for a year is 'kill the.... Bill"

Kill the bill
Kill kill the bill
How many times do we gotta tell you kill the
Kill the bill.

Bill Clinton chimed in, said we gotta pass health care
Says if we would have done his plan, none of the problems would be there
Mr. Clinton you have a short memory, we told you no before
And all we ask is the same, just kill it, Bill

Kill the bill
Kill kill the bill
How many times do we gotta tell you kill the
Kill the bill.

Talkin about Obama Care just kill the
Kill the bill!

 

[MaggieMae]

What they did was, FAR over-reached to the hard left. SO far that they couldn't get it down the throats of even their own caucus.

Which is really quite surprising given the Dem caucus' tendency to blow each other.

Cute^.

The problem was that the first House Bill was a public option (single-payer, etc.) which of course many Democrats, including myself, knew would never ever fly. So then the course became to approach it from an insuring-everyone angle. The rest is history.

 

[MaggieMae]

Nobody is factoring in that Democrats are going to push for Amnesty for some 30 Million Illegals in the near future. They will have to be covered under this plan as well. Their $1 Trillion number is an extremely low estimate at best. It will likely end up costing ten times that number in the end. Maybe even more. Their plan just doesn't add up in my opinion. It is time to kill it. Both sides will try to demonize each other but it's really not about that. It's the numbers that count in the end. The Democrat numbers just aren't very realistic.

There has never been, nor will there be, a "push" for blanket amnesty. Where do you people get this information, or is making it up supposed to make it factual?

How can you say there never will be?

Dems cater to the "poor" voting segment. If they think pushing for blanket amnesty will win them votes, you can bet your bottom dollar that they will find a way to offer amnesty to the illegals. And if the Dems don't find the way, you can bet that Republicans will.

Immie

The last person to offer blanket amnesty was Ronald Reagan. It won't happen again.

 

[MaggieMae]

Nobody is factoring in that Democrats are going to push for Amnesty for some 30 Million Illegals in the near future. They will have to be covered under this plan as well. Their $1 Trillion number is an extremely low estimate at best. It will likely end up costing ten times that number in the end. Maybe even more. Their plan just doesn't add up in my opinion. It is time to kill it. Both sides will try to demonize each other but it's really not about that. It's the numbers that count in the end. The Democrat numbers just aren't very realistic.

There has never been, nor will there be, a "push" for blanket amnesty. Where do you people get this information, or is making it up supposed to make it factual?

Maybe from all of the DNC campaigning in the minority communities? Scratch the maybe.

Yes, let's believe YOU instead.

 

[Claudette]

The Dems screwed the pooch on their HC bill.

The dumbfucks had it in the bag. A supermajority. They shut the Reps out completely. Didn't need their votes. Or so they thought until their own party member balked at this monstrosity of a bill.

The tried the buyouts. No go.

OL'BO made his token appearance with the Reps. Supposedly took a few of their ideas. Still no bill

Now they are trying to sneak the peice of shit throught the backdoor with no vote. It will be deemed passed.

Jeeze. What a bunch of morons. These folks are ELECTED. God. We voters must be the dummies.

Kill this clusterfuck of a bill.

Start over and focus on fixing the problem. The cost.

Wonder if Ol'BO will be open to bipartisan in the future?? Gee. Don't think I'll bet my non-existant farm on that.

Yeah. This fiasco is enough to make one roll on the floor with laughter. Talk about the party of the inept. Dems win hands down.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

As it currently stands, there ARE a few provisions that would have immediate effect:

Barring lifetime limits on coverage.

Allowing young people up to age 26 to remain on their parents' policies.

Some temporary aid for the uninsured to provide coverage for people who have trouble getting coverage with preexisting conditions.

Expansion of community health centers, where consumers could go for care.

Uh-huh. But as I said, and apparently you didn't or can't read:

Most of it though, waits four or more years, while costs continue to skyrocket, taxes increase, penalties for no coverage levied.

Sounds like a GOOD deal, huh?

Sure you really want to kill it?

Oh fuck you, Mr. Perfection. I responded without any snarky bullshit. You, on the other hand, are NEVER able to do the same.

Oh please...Republicans had their soldiers all lined up even before Obama took office knowing health care was his #1 priority.

Fact or not, what does it have to do with the FACT they could have easily passed a HC bill without any GOP support or votes at all?

Read slow: The Democrats had a SUPER MAJORITY that was bulletproof. They didn't need ANY GOP support or votes whatsoever.

But they OVER REACHED and made this mess UNPALATABLE to a good number of their OWN caucus.

Just like it's UNPALATABLE to YOU right now!

I don't intend to discuss this with YOU. Maybe if you weren't such a horse's ass...

Again all see that when you're proven demonstrably WRONG, as demonstrated here, you revert to your normal crybaby state.

 

[AvgGuyIA]

Main Entry: coup d'état
Variant(s): or coup d'etat \ˌkü-(&#716dā-ˈtä, ˈkü-(&#716dā-ˌ, -də-\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural coups d'état or coups d'etat \-ˈtä(z), -ˌtä(z)\
Etymology: French, literally, stroke of state
Date: 1646
: a sudden decisive exercise of force in politics; especially : the violent overthrow or alteration of an existing government by a small group

Coup d'etat - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Are you sure that's not pronounced "coop", like "coop de grass"?

 

[MaggieMae]

Wrong.

TWO different bills were "passed." They are currently trying to reconcile the Senate version. The House version is dead.Try to keep up.

Oh and, you didn't trouble yourself to answer this:Wonder why?

What do you think happens in conference committees? The two bills are "reconciled." I'm very knowledgeable on this subject; you apparently not so much.

Your spin is hilarious. The TWO bills are NOT being reconciled, only the one that passed the Senate is.

As for your second comment, I did answer it. Do try to keep up.

You "answered" it AFTER I challenged you on it again, look at the post numbers and timestamps, idiot.

Your Post #42; my response is at Post #62. I just keep scrolling through comments, and don't specifically look for YOURS, asshole, and they are posted consecutively. You're really not that important to me, which probably comes as a huge surprise.