Julian Assange: Over 6 months of house arrest

[California Girl]

Because nothing bad happens to innocent people.

It's Sweden, for God's sake. They let fucking serial killers out after a few years. God, you are so fucking naive about this world, it's a wonder you've survived in it for so long.

You think he has nothing to fear from the so-called "justice" system in Sweden despite the trumped up accusations, and despite the European Arrest Warrant being used to extradite him for questioning without charging him with a crime and you call me naive? Come on now.

Trumped up accusations?

Seems to me that you have decided he's innocent without the trial. I personally remain unconvinced either way... because he stands accused but refuses to stand trial. Sweden is a very liberal country. If he's innocent, why not return and prove it?

You clearly know jack shit about international law, Swedish law..... or much else to be honest.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

It's Sweden, for God's sake. They let fucking serial killers out after a few years. God, you are so fucking naive about this world, it's a wonder you've survived in it for so long.

You think he has nothing to fear from the so-called "justice" system in Sweden despite the trumped up accusations, and despite the European Arrest Warrant being used to extradite him for questioning without charging him with a crime and you call me naive? Come on now.

Trumped up accusations?

Seems to me that you have decided he's innocent without the trial. I personally remain unconvinced either way... because he stands accused but refuses to stand trial. Sweden is a very liberal country. If he's innocent, why not return and prove it?

You clearly know jack shit about international law, Swedish law..... or much else to be honest.

Yes, trumped up accusations that they already dismissed once.

Ever heard the term "innocent until proven guilty?" Regardless, he hasn't refused to stand trial because he hasn't even been charged with a crime. If he's guilty, why not charge him?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Ever heard the term "innocent until proven guilty?"

It would seem not. Very telling and troubling.

 

[Dr Grump]

I rather wonder if Mr Assange will amuse himself by turning over his own country to an unfriendly nation like he did America. That could hasten his extradition if he does such a thing.

He has targeted the USA that has been nothing but a friend to Australia since we lost three battle ships and the better part of another in the battle for the Coral Sea in WWII.

We put a thousand lives on the line for Australia, and he returned to America bad for good.

He is a very, very bad man.

Australians lost their lives in Europe during both World Wars, and in the Pacific too...and?

You seem to be saying "Because we saved your arses in WWII, STFU - we can do what we like."

Well, no you can't. And as kevin has already said, it is not just the US who has been embarrassed (as they should be) by the leaks. European, Australia, NZ - a lot of countries have been embarrassed. But being a typical egocentric US right-wing neocon, it's all about you, right?

And what, precisely, has the US done to Mr Assange?

Nothing.

We're not holding him under house arrest. That's the Brits.

We have not issued an arrest warrant for him.

We have not charged him.

But, as with all the fools who don't understand the actual, real damage that Assange has done, or perhaps you don't care about the damage he's done, or the lives he's put at risk, your 'right to know' and your rabid naivity drives you instead of your intellect.

So, let me get this straight...because America has done nothing to Assange, he should just STFU? So, if I had found about concentration camps in WWII, evn though Germany did nothing to me personally, I should say nothing?

What damage has he done other than show your methods of keeping things on the QT are not that great?

 

[Dr Grump]

I rather wonder if Mr Assange will amuse himself by turning over his own country to an unfriendly nation like he did America. That could hasten his extradition if he does such a thing.

He has targeted the USA that has been nothing but a friend to Australia since we lost three battle ships and the better part of another in the battle for the Coral Sea in WWII.

We put a thousand lives on the line for Australia, and he returned to America bad for good.

He is a very, very bad man.

Australians lost their lives in Europe during both World Wars, and in the Pacific too...and?

You seem to be saying "Because we saved your arses in WWII, STFU - we can do what we like."

Well, no you can't. And as kevin has already said, it is not just the US who has been embarrassed (as they should be) by the leaks. European, Australia, NZ - a lot of countries have been embarrassed. But being a typical egocentric US right-wing neocon, it's all about you, right?

Do you know what a neocon is or do you just throw that word at people who disagree with you?

A neocon is somebody who believes in the New World Order paper championed by Wolfowitz, Pearle et al not long after Bush came to power. US hegemony is OK as long as we are in control and keeps the US place in the world

 

[Dr Grump]

And what, precisely, has the US done to Mr Assange?

Nothing.

We're not holding him under house arrest. That's the Brits.

We have not issued an arrest warrant for him.

We have not charged him.

But, as with all the fools who don't understand the actual, real damage that Assange has done, or perhaps you don't care about the damage he's done, or the lives he's put at risk, your 'right to know' and your rabid naivity drives you instead of your intellect.

Nobody said that the U.S. did anything to Assange personally, at least not yet. Though I wouldn't be surprised if the U.S. government was behind Sweden's attempts to extradite him from the U.K.

Did I address you? No. However, Grump seems to think that this is the US....

You seem to be saying "Because we saved your arses in WWII, STFU - we can do what we like."

It isn't.

And it's not illegal.

It's perfectly within international laws for Assange to be held. He would not still be under house arrest if he wasn't fighting extradition. If he's innocent, why doesn't he want to put his case in court?

Fuck him. He stole information from the United States, he can rot in hell.

He didn't steal anything. He published stolen information...

 

[daveman]

He didn't steal anything. He published stolen information...

Did you know that receiving stolen property is a crime? Even in NZ.

 

[elvis]

Australians lost their lives in Europe during both World Wars, and in the Pacific too...and?

You seem to be saying "Because we saved your arses in WWII, STFU - we can do what we like."

Well, no you can't. And as kevin has already said, it is not just the US who has been embarrassed (as they should be) by the leaks. European, Australia, NZ - a lot of countries have been embarrassed. But being a typical egocentric US right-wing neocon, it's all about you, right?

Do you know what a neocon is or do you just throw that word at people who disagree with you?

A neocon is somebody who believes in the New World Order paper championed by Wolfowitz, Pearle et al not long after Bush came to power. US hegemony is OK as long as we are in control and keeps the US place in the world

well, that's a lot closer than Kevin Kennedy got.

 

[Si modo]

I rather wonder if Mr Assange will amuse himself by turning over his own country to an unfriendly nation like he did America. That could hasten his extradition if he does such a thing.

He has targeted the USA that has been nothing but a friend to Australia since we lost three battle ships and the better part of another in the battle for the Coral Sea in WWII.

We put a thousand lives on the line for Australia, and he returned to America bad for good.

He is a very, very bad man.

Australians lost their lives in Europe during both World Wars, and in the Pacific too...and?

You seem to be saying "Because we saved your arses in WWII, STFU - we can do what we like."

Well, no you can't. And as kevin has already said, it is not just the US who has been embarrassed (as they should be) by the leaks. European, Australia, NZ - a lot of countries have been embarrassed. But being a typical egocentric US right-wing neocon, it's all about you, right?

I see little about that post that would make one conclude that the poster is a neocon. Do you think you have some sort of special powers to see things that aren't there?

 

[MikeK]

[...]

But, as with all the fools who don't understand the actual, real damage that Assange has done, or perhaps you don't care about the damage he's done, or the lives he's put at risk, your 'right to know' and your rabid naivity drives you instead of your intellect.

For the benefit of those of us who are not aware of any lives that Assange has "put at risk" I would appreciate being enlightened by you. So please provide some specifics.

 

[California Girl]

Australians lost their lives in Europe during both World Wars, and in the Pacific too...and?

You seem to be saying "Because we saved your arses in WWII, STFU - we can do what we like."

Well, no you can't. And as kevin has already said, it is not just the US who has been embarrassed (as they should be) by the leaks. European, Australia, NZ - a lot of countries have been embarrassed. But being a typical egocentric US right-wing neocon, it's all about you, right?

And what, precisely, has the US done to Mr Assange?

Nothing.

We're not holding him under house arrest. That's the Brits.

We have not issued an arrest warrant for him.

We have not charged him.

But, as with all the fools who don't understand the actual, real damage that Assange has done, or perhaps you don't care about the damage he's done, or the lives he's put at risk, your 'right to know' and your rabid naivity drives you instead of your intellect.

So, let me get this straight...because America has done nothing to Assange, he should just STFU? So, if I had found about concentration camps in WWII, evn though Germany did nothing to me personally, I should say nothing?

What damage has he done other than show your methods of keeping things on the QT are not that great?

If you are gonna 'get this straight', get it right. I have not said he should 'STFU', I said he should go back and face the charges. That's what innocent people do.

And comparing this little shit's espionage to concentration camps is not only pathetically hysterical, it is insulting to those who suffered and died in those camps.

I've already outlined the damage done, I'm not in the habit of repeating myself for the kids who can't keep up with the rest of the class.

 

[California Girl]

[...]

But, as with all the fools who don't understand the actual, real damage that Assange has done, or perhaps you don't care about the damage he's done, or the lives he's put at risk, your 'right to know' and your rabid naivity drives you instead of your intellect.

For the benefit of those of us who are not aware of any lives that Assange has "put at risk" I would appreciate being enlightened by you. So please provide some specifics.

I've already done so, more than once in a variety of threads about Assange. If you're not capable of educating yourself, please don't expect me to spoon feed you.

 

[MikeK]

Fuck him. He stole information from the United States, he can rot in hell.

Assange didn't steal information. He acquired information and published it, which is the function of the free press. Just because our increasingly authoritarian government chooses to "classify" certain information does not impart some sacrosanct standing to it.

Unfortunately for Bradley Manning he is subject to the UCMJ which means he has no civil rights and he is not protected by the Constitution. But you may rest assured the only reason Assange is not sequestered in some obscure solitary confinement cell is government has not yet contrived a substantially legal reason to do it.

There are things which the public has a right to know in spite of government's wish to keep it secret. Some examples are the infamous Pentagon Papers and the facts about some of the malfeasances committed by Americans in Iraq.

Do you believe Daniel Ellsberg should have been punished for revealing the Pentagon Papers?

Do you believe the principals at Wikipedia and others should be punished for publishing the information found via the following link?

Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[California Girl]

Fuck him. He stole information from the United States, he can rot in hell.

Assange didn't steal information. He acquired information and published it, which is the function of the free press. Just because our increasingly authoritarian government chooses to "classify" certain information does not impart some sacrosanct standing to it.

Unfortunately for Bradley Manning he is subject to the UCMJ which means he has no civil rights and he is not protected by the Constitution. But you may rest assured the only reason Assange is not sequestered in some obscure solitary confinement cell is government has not yet contrived a substantially legal reason to do it.

There are things which the public has a right to know in spite of government's wish to keep it secret. Some examples are the infamous Pentagon Papers and the facts about some of the malfeasances committed by Americans in Iraq.

Do you believe Daniel Ellsberg should have been punished for revealing the Pentagon Papers?

Do you believe the principals at Wikipedia and others should be punished for publishing the information found via the following link?

Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm not interested in what they should or should not be punished for. What Assange does is called espionage, and it is illegal.... not just here but all over the world.

What he did puts lives at risk..... Now, I appreciate that he has said it doesn't, but the fact is that Assange is a hacker, desperately trying to justify his self serving bullshit. He does not care about my country. I do. I care that national security agencies around the world are now refusing to share information with us, because we can't guarantee we don't have some butthurt boy bitch who'll sell that information to some bullshit artist like Assange.

You may not care about our security, you may not see the absolutely vital work that our security services do as more important than your stupid need for 'information'. I don't care about what you want or what you think.... I actually don't care what I want or I think.... I care more about my country than myself, or you or anyone else.

 

[MikeK]

I'm not interested in what they should or should not be punished for. What Assange does is called espionage, and it is illegal.... not just here but all over the world.

The same thing was said about Daniel Ellsberg -- by ignorant jingoists. But none of the courts that dealt with the Pentagon Papers issue agreed. Ellsberg was consistently acquitted of any such charges and he presently is widely regarded as a patriotic whistleblower. Not an espionage agent.

What he did puts lives at risk.

What lives? To simply make that statement is empty rhetoric. You need to support it with some substantive information, not your own theories, to validate it.

Now, I appreciate that he has said it doesn't, but the fact is that Assange is a hacker.

In the generally accepted sense of the word, a "hacker" is one who manipulatively gains access to remote computer systems and data banks for malicious, larcenous or frivolous purposes. While Assange utilizes similar skills and methods to access information his purpose in doing so distinguishes him from that which is commonly regarded as a "hacker." It is more accurate to refer Assange as a resourceful whistleblower and/or a reporter. He acquires and publishes information he believes the general public has a right to know -- and thus far his belief has not been successfully refuted.

. . . . desperately trying to justify his self serving bullshit.

Is he any more self-serving than any other reporter? So far, the only difference between him and the 60 Minutes crew is Assange takes much greater risk of being retaliated against by an embarrassed power establishment, which is snapping at his heels right now.

He does not care about my country. I do. I care that national security agencies around the world are now refusing to share information with us, because we can't guarantee we don't have some butthurt boy bitch who'll sell that information to some bullshit artist like Assange.

Specifically what information published by Assange is damaging to the security of the U.S. or any other nation. Note I said damaging to security, not merely embarrassing to power establishments and malfeasant, misfeasant or incompetent officials.

You may not care about our security, you may not see the absolutely vital work that our security services do as more important than your stupid need for 'information'. I don't care about what you want or what you think.... I actually don't care what I want or I think.... I care more about my country than myself, or you or anyone else.

I have an Honorable Discharge from the Marine Corps that stands as evidence of my patriotism. It represents four years of my life, which is a bit more substantive than some weepy, jingoistic little paragraphs.

As for the work our security services do, the 9/11 surprise attack and the misinformation about Iraq's supposed WMDs loudly addresses that issue.

 

[Dr Grump]

He didn't steal anything. He published stolen information...

Did you know that receiving stolen property is a crime? Even in NZ.

But whistle blowing ain't...

 

[Dr Grump]

I rather wonder if Mr Assange will amuse himself by turning over his own country to an unfriendly nation like he did America. That could hasten his extradition if he does such a thing.

He has targeted the USA that has been nothing but a friend to Australia since we lost three battle ships and the better part of another in the battle for the Coral Sea in WWII.

We put a thousand lives on the line for Australia, and he returned to America bad for good.

He is a very, very bad man.

Australians lost their lives in Europe during both World Wars, and in the Pacific too...and?

You seem to be saying "Because we saved your arses in WWII, STFU - we can do what we like."

Well, no you can't. And as kevin has already said, it is not just the US who has been embarrassed (as they should be) by the leaks. European, Australia, NZ - a lot of countries have been embarrassed. But being a typical egocentric US right-wing neocon, it's all about you, right?

I see little about that post that would make one conclude that the poster is a neocon. Do you think you have some sort of special powers to see things that aren't there?

My powers of deduction are amazing!

On a serious note, I never saw Idi Amin kill anybody, but I know he wasn't a very nice guy...

 

[Dr Grump]

And what, precisely, has the US done to Mr Assange?

Nothing.

We're not holding him under house arrest. That's the Brits.

We have not issued an arrest warrant for him.

We have not charged him.

But, as with all the fools who don't understand the actual, real damage that Assange has done, or perhaps you don't care about the damage he's done, or the lives he's put at risk, your 'right to know' and your rabid naivity drives you instead of your intellect.

So, let me get this straight...because America has done nothing to Assange, he should just STFU? So, if I had found about concentration camps in WWII, evn though Germany did nothing to me personally, I should say nothing?

What damage has he done other than show your methods of keeping things on the QT are not that great?

If you are gonna 'get this straight', get it right. I have not said he should 'STFU', I said he should go back and face the charges. That's what innocent people do.

And comparing this little shit's espionage to concentration camps is not only pathetically hysterical, it is insulting to those who suffered and died in those camps.

I've already outlined the damage done, I'm not in the habit of repeating myself for the kids who can't keep up with the rest of the class.

An innocent person should not be charged in the first place .

Oh please save me your false incredulity about concentration camps. The point is valid, and trying to attack that point without addressing the real one is just deflection. Who said he has committed espionage? Even your lawyers don't think he has.

You have not outlined the damage in this thread which is the only one that matters in this instance. This may come as a surprise to you, but I haven't read all of your 29,000+ posts, nor do I intend to.

I have seen nothing in the press - other than conjecture - that one person has been harmed due to these leaks. Only a lot of embarrassed governments, which from where I'm sitting isn't a bad thing...

 

[daveman]

He didn't steal anything. He published stolen information...

Did you know that receiving stolen property is a crime? Even in NZ.

But whistle blowing ain't...

Assange didn't whistleblow. He published information that wasn't his to publish.

 

[Dr Grump]

Did you know that receiving stolen property is a crime? Even in NZ.

But whistle blowing ain't...

Assange didn't whistleblow. He published information that wasn't his to publish.

Read Mike K's post on the Pentagon Papers. If that was the litmus test, then there would be hundreds of thousands of stories of great importance that would never be published. You think those chemical companies that throw shit in to rivers wanted those reports that they instigated published? Or the ones published by American Tobacco - hell any report that fits that description?

All you have are embarrassed govts. Maybe next time these officials - who righties can't stand in the first place; too much govt is your motto remember - will not be so Machaveillian when fucking around with the rest of the world. We're not their play things...well, maybe you are...

Pretty piss weak argument Dave....