Jobs

Discussion in 'Economy' started by alan1, Dec 25, 2008.

  1. alan1
    Offline

    alan1 USMB Mod Staff Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2008
    Messages:
    18,845
    Thanks Received:
    3,577
    Trophy Points:
    245
    Location:
    Shoveling the ashes
    Ratings:
    +3,769
    Obama outlines job-creation plan - CNN.com
    snip,
    There are only three ways to grow government, you can tax, borrow,
    or inflate.
    Somebody please explain to me which one is good for the economy.
     
  2. mash107
    Offline

    mash107 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2008
    Messages:
    570
    Thanks Received:
    82
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +82
    Absolutely none of those three options.

    Tax - take money now. Borrow - take money now, promise to pay back later. Inflate - make money worth less, so we can spend more now. All three destroys jobs-- and especially during a recession, all three are devastating.
     
  3. Old Rocks
    Offline

    Old Rocks Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2008
    Messages:
    46,440
    Thanks Received:
    5,409
    Trophy Points:
    1,840
    Location:
    Portland, Ore.
    Ratings:
    +10,294
    How do you build an infrastructure that will sustain a city? Think on this, people! Can you do it by demanding that everyone go out and build their share of the water mains and roads neccessary for the existance of a modern city. That everyone build their fair share of the electrical grid and gas mains? Of course, this would be totally unworkable. So what we do is TAX everyone in the city a certain amount in order to cover the costs of the infrastructure neccessary for the existance of said city. The same goes for a nation. Taxes are what we pay to live in a civilized society. Yes, they can be unfair, they can be destructive. Yet, to any people, the failure to tax enough to sustain the physical basis of that society will be even more destructive.

    I find the idea that their should be no taxes so damned ignorant that I wonder what kind of people actually believe in this nonsense? And I find it far wise to tax and spend, than to spend and borrow. That is how we have come to be where we are right now.
     
  4. mash107
    Offline

    mash107 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2008
    Messages:
    570
    Thanks Received:
    82
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +82
    Then don't complain when a depression strikes, and there are no jobs to be found. I'm not an anarchist. I think government does have some duties, and those duties were outlined in the U.S. Constitution that we had once followed. You realize that if we eliminate the IRS and -all- income taxes, the government would only have to shrink to 1997 levels to sustain itself? The government wasn't that small ten years ago, either.

    Not to mention, if we were following the Constitution, all powers not explicitly given to the Federal government is given to the State government. So if there were something like utilities that should be a monopoly, and given special privilege by the government, only the State has the constitutional authority to do that. But history has shown us that competition in utilities is good.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  5. garyd
    Offline

    garyd Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2008
    Messages:
    3,943
    Thanks Received:
    401
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    Ratings:
    +401
    You know that pork everyone talks about? that's highway money for the most part. It's less than ten percent of the budget. The military is another 20% of the Budget the remaining seventy percent which currently crowds out everything else is almost entirely support structure for the war on poverty.

    The evidence to date suggests that involving the Feds in education in any large scale manner is a disaster.
     
  6. Old Rocks
    Offline

    Old Rocks Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2008
    Messages:
    46,440
    Thanks Received:
    5,409
    Trophy Points:
    1,840
    Location:
    Portland, Ore.
    Ratings:
    +10,294
    What a crock you are selling.

    Social Security 21%

    Medicare 21%

    Military 20%

    Other
    Discrentionary 18%

    Other
    Mandatory 11%

    Interest 9%

    Social Security is paid for out a direct SS tax, as is Medicare. So that leaves military and interest on our debt as 50% of the income and other taxes that are collected.
     
  7. alan1
    Offline

    alan1 USMB Mod Staff Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2008
    Messages:
    18,845
    Thanks Received:
    3,577
    Trophy Points:
    245
    Location:
    Shoveling the ashes
    Ratings:
    +3,769
    Aside from your rant, who said there should be "no taxes"?
    Nice strawman argument there.
    Not.
     
  8. Old Rocks
    Offline

    Old Rocks Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2008
    Messages:
    46,440
    Thanks Received:
    5,409
    Trophy Points:
    1,840
    Location:
    Portland, Ore.
    Ratings:
    +10,294
    Mash107;

    Absolutely none of those three options.

    Tax - take money now. Borrow - take money now, promise to pay back later. Inflate - make money worth less, so we can spend more now. All three destroys jobs-- and especially during a recession, all three are devastating.
     
  9. alan1
    Offline

    alan1 USMB Mod Staff Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2008
    Messages:
    18,845
    Thanks Received:
    3,577
    Trophy Points:
    245
    Location:
    Shoveling the ashes
    Ratings:
    +3,769
    And where in that statement did Mash say there should "no taxes"?
    You are failing to build your strawman argument.
     
  10. mash107
    Offline

    mash107 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2008
    Messages:
    570
    Thanks Received:
    82
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +82
    Taking money out of the economy is destructive for jobs, no matter what, I hope we can agree on that....

    But yeah, some people might be satisfied with a little inefficiency if there is government there to guarantee that the system doesn't break down, like our Founders were. I never argued for full-blown anarchism, and I think the U.S. constitution was one of the best inventions by men. Not perfect, because it's allowed itself to become obsolete, but the founders knew exactly where threats to our prosperity and liberty come from, and it's the government that it sought to restrain.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2008

Share This Page