Job's Question

[JoeB131]

[

Joe, first you say, frankly I don't believe Jesus ever existed, then you say but frankly concentrating on how Jesus died..... How can you concentrate on how Jesus died if he never existed? You know what is happening to you? You are hearing the Word of God and you are beginning to believe.....keep reading, Joe. Something good is happening here.....faith cometh by hearing!

Sorry, heard it all before and am still not impressed.

But here's the thing. The PHILOSOPHY attributed to Jesus isn't necessarily a bad one. treat people the way you'd want to be treated. Help the poor and downtrodden, do onto others, do not judge lest you be judged. That's all pretty good stuff. It would be pretty good stuff without all the magic sky pixie stories.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

p.s. I know that you know how intelligent Sunshine is, Joe. VERY.

actually, I don't know that. All the encounters I've had with her in the last few years have involved lots of name-calling and very few thoughtful ideas. I really can't point to something truly insightful she has ever said.

And that isn't a partisan thing. There are a lot of conservatives and Christians here who make their points very well.

I think the day you accept Christ as your Savior, Joe, that Satan is going to ask God for a reprieve.. and say this is the guy I want to test! Why? Because he knows the gates of hell won't be able to prevail against you and he is going to want a jump start!

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Joe, one thing I want to know. How did you figure out that Job was living around the time of Noah? I believe you are right. How did you know that? You really have me wondering about that one.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

[

Joe, first you say, frankly I don't believe Jesus ever existed, then you say but frankly concentrating on how Jesus died..... How can you concentrate on how Jesus died if he never existed? You know what is happening to you? You are hearing the Word of God and you are beginning to believe.....keep reading, Joe. Something good is happening here.....faith cometh by hearing!

Sorry, heard it all before and am still not impressed.

But here's the thing. The PHILOSOPHY attributed to Jesus isn't necessarily a bad one. treat people the way you'd want to be treated. Help the poor and downtrodden, do onto others, do not judge lest you be judged. That's all pretty good stuff. It would be pretty good stuff without all the magic sky pixie stories.

You know what? That is cool with me that you are not impressed because I didn't expect you would be. But you see, this is precisely why I know you are going to present a big problem for Satan. Because you are not the kind of guy that falls on his knees easily. Christians who convert on a whim fall away just as fast. Christians like Paul? Who could not be convinced until he had a head on encounter with Christ? They don't lay down. For anyone. Neither will you. When that time comes. See you later, God willing. Good night, Joe. - Karen

 

[JoeB131]

Joe, one thing I want to know. How did you figure out that Job was living around the time of Noah? I believe you are right. How did you know that? You really have me wondering about that one.

I think that's biblical tradition, or at least that is the way that it was taught in Bible Study when I was in Catholic H.S.

I put the caveat that there are a lot of anachronisms in it, such as mention of the "Chaldeans" being one of the tribes who stole Job's livestock, or mention of Hades, which was not a concept that the early Hebrews had. That puts its authorship in the Second Temple Period.

 

[PainefulTruth]

It is written:

Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him? But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats? Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by which ye are called?

What's poverty got to do with it except that wealth makes it easier to sin. BTW, as for Jesus, James and the other Jerusalem followers of Jesus, I only claim that they are less wrong than Paul. Their hearts were in the right place, but The Law is way to complex. Paul on the other hand was outright evil.

My favorite passage from the Book of James is one aimed (as is the whole book) directly at Paul: "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

I think there is some significance to the fact that the word "tremble" is used often in the OT, but only this once in the New. Also, I don't believe devils makes sense, the only devils are those of us who doevil.

 

[LittleNipper]

Seriously, Joe, you need a life. There were no Republicans nor Democrats in the Bible. Only 'publicans and sinners' in Jesus' day. All the books are an allegory to something. I think the fact that Job ignores his negative friends is a lesson to us all to avoid negative people, and trust God. Sadly, there are so many people these days avoiding them is almost impossible to do.

Do try to pay attention. SOmeone specifically asked me what I meant by "Eisenhower Republican" and I explained.

The Book of Job is an allegory for Iron Age people who no longer accepted a capricious God (i.e. forces of nature), and wanted a better explanation why God lets bad things happen to good people. My opinion is that it fails, miserably.

Bad things happen to everyone during this life. It's the result of sin in the world due to the Fall. Those that are saved will not have to endure an eternity of bad things. The book of Job is not an allegory.

 

[LittleNipper]

Seriously, Joe, you need a life. There were no Republicans nor Democrats in the Bible. Only 'publicans and sinners' in Jesus' day. All the books are an allegory to something. I think the fact that Job ignores his negative friends is a lesson to us all to avoid negative people, and trust God. Sadly, there are so many people these days avoiding them is almost impossible to do.

Do try to pay attention. SOmeone specifically asked me what I meant by "Eisenhower Republican" and I explained.

The Book of Job is an allegory for Iron Age people who no longer accepted a capricious God (i.e. forces of nature), and wanted a better explanation why God lets bad things happen to good people. My opinion is that it fails, miserably.

Bad things happen to everyone during this life. It's the result of sin in the world due to the Fall. Those that are saved will not have to endure an eternity of bad things. The book of Job is not an allegory.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Bad things happen to everyone during this life. It's the result of sin in the world due to the Fall. Those that are saved will not have to endure an eternity of bad things. The book of Job is not an allegory.

Bad things happen to everyone during their life because of random, doodaa luck.

Has nothing to do with a magic sky pixie or some people who ate an apple because a talking snake told them to.

(Yes, seriously. Talking Snakes. That never gets old.)

Now, the Bronze Age people who invented Yahweh (and not the other way around), this wasn't a consideration. God was the go-to explanation for every capricious force of nature. Plague? God. Famine? God. Pestilence? God. Earthquake? God.

But by the time folks get to the Iron Age and they start asking philosophical questions like "If God is Good, why do Good people suffer? More importantly, why do Bad People Prosper".

Thus, they all needed to invent a few more things. Like a Hell for people you don't like to go to and suffer. And a Devil to rule it. Because clearly that guy who banged your wife before you had her stoned needs to burn in hell forever and ever for it.

 

[LittleNipper]

[

Bad things happen to everyone during this life. It's the result of sin in the world due to the Fall. Those that are saved will not have to endure an eternity of bad things. The book of Job is not an allegory.

Bad things happen to everyone during their life because of random, doodaa luck.

Has nothing to do with a magic sky pixie or some people who ate an apple because a talking snake told them to.

(Yes, seriously. Talking Snakes. That never gets old.)

Now, the Bronze Age people who invented Yahweh (and not the other way around), this wasn't a consideration. God was the go-to explanation for every capricious force of nature. Plague? God. Famine? God. Pestilence? God. Earthquake? God.

But by the time folks get to the Iron Age and they start asking philosophical questions like "If God is Good, why do Good people suffer? More importantly, why do Bad People Prosper".

Thus, they all needed to invent a few more things. Like a Hell for people you don't like to go to and suffer. And a Devil to rule it. Because clearly that guy who banged your wife before you had her stoned needs to burn in hell forever and ever for it.

There is no such thing as luck. You cannot even imagine that the serpent communicated telepathically? And why exactly not? The Bronze age farmer/shepherds were really the clever to invent a single omnipotent GOD (who also happens to be triune in nature and created EVERYTHING), when all the "smart" learned city folk all accepted a family of gods (that looked and acted only just like super men) or worshipped trees, the sky, the moon... Doesn't that seem just a bit strange? And then there is all this evidence for a Flood or at least some sort of horrific event that seems to have changed everything surrounding the environment of planet earth. And then to top it off, we have Jesus Christ. The evidence all points to him being a real person. And the simple fact is that Jesus should have disappeared into obscurity given your viewpoint. I mean he lived in a silly little country, with a lot of oddballs. It wasn't Rome or Athens or Egypt. And He died at the age of about 31. He owned no land. He had no money. He had 12 key followers (none of which were powerful). Think on that.

 

[LittleNipper]

[

Bad things happen to everyone during this life. It's the result of sin in the world due to the Fall. Those that are saved will not have to endure an eternity of bad things. The book of Job is not an allegory.

Bad things happen to everyone during their life because of random, doodaa luck.

Has nothing to do with a magic sky pixie or some people who ate an apple because a talking snake told them to.

(Yes, seriously. Talking Snakes. That never gets old.)

Now, the Bronze Age people who invented Yahweh (and not the other way around), this wasn't a consideration. God was the go-to explanation for every capricious force of nature. Plague? God. Famine? God. Pestilence? God. Earthquake? God.

But by the time folks get to the Iron Age and they start asking philosophical questions like "If God is Good, why do Good people suffer? More importantly, why do Bad People Prosper".

Thus, they all needed to invent a few more things. Like a Hell for people you don't like to go to and suffer. And a Devil to rule it. Because clearly that guy who banged your wife before you had her stoned needs to burn in hell forever and ever for it.

There is no such thing as luck. You cannot even imagine that the serpent communicated telepathically? And why exactly not? The Bronze age farmer/shepherds were really the clever to invent a single omnipotent GOD (who also happens to be triune in nature and created EVERYTHING), when all the "smart" learned city folk all accepted a family of gods (that looked and acted only just like super humans) or worshipped trees, the sky, the moon... Doesn't that seem just a bit strange? And then there is all this evidence for a Flood or at least some sort of horrific event that seems to have changed everything surrounding the environment of planet earth. And then to top it off, we have Jesus Christ. The evidence all points to him being a real person. And the simple fact is that Jesus should have disappeared into obscurity given your viewpoint. I mean he lived in a silly little country, with a lot of oddballs. It wasn't Rome or Athens or Egypt. And He died at the age of about 31. He owned no land. He had no money. He had 12 key followers (none of which were powerful). Think on that. None of this points that there is something special going on out of the norm?

 

[JoeB131]

[

There is no such thing as luck.

Sure there is. And frankly, I'm glad their is. I would really hate to think there's a world where all the things that happen to us are because we deserve it. I rejoice in the capricious nature of the universe.

You cannot even imagine that the serpent communicated telepathically? And why exactly not?

Well, because snakes have really, really small brains and aren't capable of telepathy.

The Bronze age farmer/shepherds were really the clever to invent a single omnipotent GOD (who also happens to be triune in nature and created EVERYTHING), when all the "smart" learned city folk all accepted a family of gods (that looked and acted only just like super humans) or worshipped trees, the sky, the moon... Doesn't that seem just a bit strange?

Well, first, it isn't really clear that the ancient Hebrews WERE monothestic. Early versions seem to indicate Yahweh was a major God, but not the only God they worshipped. This is what they call "retconning".

And then there is all this evidence for a Flood or at least some sort of horrific event that seems to have changed everything surrounding the environment of planet earth.

Uh, no, there's no evidence for a world wide flood. There's some evidence for large local floods.

And then to top it off, we have Jesus Christ. The evidence all points to him being a real person. And the simple fact is that Jesus should have disappeared into obscurity given your viewpoint.

Actually, quite the contrary, all of the accounts of Jesus were written by people who never met him personally, and decades after the fact.

For instance, the person who wrote the Gospel of Mark never set foot in the Holy Land. He gets too many things wrong in geography and customs. (Like thinking Judean women could get divorces, like their Roman counterparts. ) Mattew and Luke are built off of Mark, repeating 90% of it, but they contradict each other on the facts that they add. (Such as when Jesus was born, where, and why someone form Galalie would be in Bethelhem.)

[/quote] I mean he lived in a silly little country, with a lot of oddballs. It wasn't Rome or Athens or Egypt. And He died at the age of about 31. He owned no land. He had no money. He had 12 key followers (none of which were powerful). Think on that. None of this points that there is something special going on out of the norm?[/QUOTE]

Actually, there were a lot of sects that called themselves "Christian". Christian was used in the Second century to not only describe followers of Jesus, but also followers of Sarapis. It was only after Constantine decided to make the JEsus cult the state religion of Rome that we finally got some "conformity" to the story. And more Ret-conning.