Jobs , automation , capital

[CultureCitizen]

The preamble.

This thread's intended use is to explore the limits of automation and the meaning they hold within the clasic economic resources : labour , land , capital.

How does a model where no labour ( or very little labour ) is required to produce goods and services ?
How would such an economy work?
How would this affect the circular economic model ?

 

[Tom Sweetnam]

Yes, big questions being pondered by sociologists, futurists, and industrialists alike. In 2040-2050 our planet's population will be something around 10 billion and there's not going to be much for many of them to do. Great advances in automation and computer technology are seeing to that. I don't know the answers. Do you have any ideas?

 

[CultureCitizen]

Yes, big questions being pondered by sociologists, futurists, and industrialists alike. In 2040-2050 our planet's population will be something around 10 billion and there's not going to be much for many of them to do. Great advances in automation and computer technology are seeing to that. I don't know the answers. Do you have any ideas?

Well , I have my own ideas of how this could go, but I would rather hear what some other members of the forum before introducing my onw bias into the thread.

 

[Judicial review]

CPA's will have it good; except the ones that make taxes their main focus.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The preamble.

This thread's intended use is to explore the limits of automation and the meaning they hold within the clasic economic resources : labour , land , capital.

How does a model where no labour ( or very little labour ) is required to produce goods and services ?
How would such an economy work?
How would this affect the circular economic model ?

totally 100% stupid and liberal as always. The guy who invented the wheel put billions out of work but we still have full employment? How can that be?

 

[CultureCitizen]

totally 100% stupid and liberal as always. The guy who invented the wheel put billions out of work but we still have full employment? How can that be?

Who exactly has full employment Baiamonte ?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

totally 100% stupid and liberal as always. The guy who invented the wheel put billions out of work but we still have full employment? How can that be?

Who exactly has full employment Baiamonte ?

dear, if the wheel, saw, hammer, truck, screw, and electricity put billions out of jobs and we still have full or nearly full employment after 10,000 year of these new inventions that has to tell you that great new labor saving inventions don't threaten employment.

An average 5 year old would understand that, just not an adult liberal in 21st Century America. In fact, American liberal ignorance is as profound as the ignorance that led to Hitler Stalin and Mao in the last century.

If you see any basis to disagree with the above reasoning please let me know. Thanks

 

[CultureCitizen]

dear, if the wheel, saw, hammer, truck, screw, and electricity put billions out of jobs and we still have full or nearly full employment after 10,000 year of these new inventions that has to tell you that great new labor saving inventions don't threaten employment.

An average 5 year old would understand that, just not an adult liberal in 21st Century America. In fact, American liberal ignorance is as profound as the ignorance that led to Hitler Stalin and Mao in the last century.

If you see any basis to disagree with the above reasoning please let me know. Thanks

Baiamonte,
The US has experienced a situation close to full employment only a few times. The most dramatic changes humankind has experienced have happened during the last 5 centuries at most. Many zones have gone through awfull times and barely nothing that resembles full or nearly full employment . So I would argue your 10,000 years of full employment is nonsense.

Not even the US has something similar to full employment right now.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

dear, if the wheel, saw, hammer, truck, screw, and electricity put billions out of jobs and we still have full or nearly full employment after 10,000 year of these new inventions that has to tell you that great new labor saving inventions don't threaten employment.

An average 5 year old would understand that, just not an adult liberal in 21st Century America. In fact, American liberal ignorance is as profound as the ignorance that led to Hitler Stalin and Mao in the last century.

If you see any basis to disagree with the above reasoning please let me know. Thanks

Baiamonte,
The US has experienced a situation close to full employment only a few times. The most dramatic changes humankind has experienced have happened during the last 5 centuries at most. Many zones have gone through awfull times and barely nothing that resembles full or nearly full employment . So I would argue your 10,000 years of full employment is nonsense.

Not even the US has something similar to full employment right now.

dear what is your point? Do you have any idea?? Do you want to make the wheel illegal so we have full employment or do you want to eliminate the liberal influence so that the law of supply and demand can operate to always maintain full employment?

 

[Iceweasel]

We are a very long way off from no human labor being needed. Automation is taking over mundane tasks but there will always be a need for humans to one degree or another. Service industries, like repair, construction, maintenance, prostitution is here for a long while.

The economy will sort itself out unless we become completely socialized. Then we will have to accept what our masters provide. And there will be a ruling class, like always.

 

[CultureCitizen]

Baiamonte , as I said this is an exploratory thread intended to answer the following questions ( or others which may appear)

How does a model where no labour ( or very little labour ) is required to produce goods and services ?
How would such an economy work?
How would this affect the circular economic model ?

So , no , I am not planning making anything illegal. But I find quite anoying that you do not in fact try to address the questions of the OP.

 

[chikenwing]

The preamble.

This thread's intended use is to explore the limits of automation and the meaning they hold within the clasic economic resources : labour , land , capital.

How does a model where no labour ( or very little labour ) is required to produce goods and services ?
How would such an economy work?
How would this affect the circular economic model ?

Who built the automation? The thinking that automation is bad is a false one,automation shifts jobs,just as the car moved people from building buggies,nothing more

 

[The Rabbi]

OK, labor is a commodity. Make any commodity cheap enough and there will be a demand for it.
IN 1900 in America over 90% if the population was involved in farming. If we had this discussion then the question would be how would we cope with a situation where less than 10% of the population could produce enough food for everyone else. What would all those people do? Yet today that is exactly where we are. ANd we are far from 90% unemployment

 

[CultureCitizen]

OK, labor is a commodity. Make any commodity cheap enough and there will be a demand for it.
IN 1900 in America over 90% if the population was involved in farming. If we had this discussion then the question would be how would we cope with a situation where less than 10% of the population could produce enough food for everyone else. What would all those people do? Yet today that is exactly where we are. ANd we are far from 90% unemployment

Interesting post, though frankly the farmer population was closer to 35 %. Even going back to 1840 the population was not so agrarian.

1840
Total population: 17,069,453; farm population; 9,012,000 (est.); farmers 69% of labor force

1890
Total population: 62,941,714; farm population: 29,414,000 (est.); farmers 43% of labor force; Number of farms: 4,565,000; average acres: 136; Census shows that the frontier settlement is over

1910
Total population: 91,972,266; farm population: 32,077,000 (est.); farmers 31% of labor force; Number of farms: 6,366,000; average acres: 138
Agriculture in the Classroom

 

[The Rabbi]

OK, labor is a commodity. Make any commodity cheap enough and there will be a demand for it.
IN 1900 in America over 90% if the population was involved in farming. If we had this discussion then the question would be how would we cope with a situation where less than 10% of the population could produce enough food for everyone else. What would all those people do? Yet today that is exactly where we are. ANd we are far from 90% unemployment

Interesting post, though frankly the farmer population was closer to 35 %. Even going back to 1840 the population was not so agrarian.

1840
Total population: 17,069,453; farm population; 9,012,000 (est.); farmers 69% of labor force

1890
Total population: 62,941,714; farm population: 29,414,000 (est.); farmers 43% of labor force; Number of farms: 4,565,000; average acres: 136; Census shows that the frontier settlement is over

1910
Total population: 91,972,266; farm population: 32,077,000 (est.); farmers 31% of labor force; Number of farms: 6,366,000; average acres: 138
Agriculture in the Classroom

Doesnt matter. Go to 1800 and you'll find the right number. Same principle. Labor saving devices put peole out of work but allowed them to train for other jobs that opened up as a result. How many people worked in offices, worked as printers and did all sorts of things that automation made obsolete in 1950? And how many people worked in tech in 1950? This always happens. The issue today is gov't restrictions on labor that raise the cost.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

We are a very long way off from no human labor being needed. Automation is taking over mundane tasks but there will always be a need for humans to one degree or another. Service industries, like repair, construction, maintenance, prostitution is here for a long while.

The economy will sort itself out unless we become completely socialized. Then we will have to accept what our masters provide. And there will be a ruling class, like always.

of course its not an issue. We could create 20 millon jobs tomorrow by shipping 20 million illegals home or 300 million by making the wheel illegal.

 

[CultureCitizen]

of course its not an issue. We could create 20 millon jobs tomorrow by shipping 20 million illegals home or 300 million by making the wheel illegal.

Wow Baiamonte, I took you for a liberal... I thought you were in favour of free movement of commodities across countries, labour being one of them.

 

[CultureCitizen]

Doesnt matter. Go to 1800 and you'll find the right number. Same principle. Labor saving devices put peole out of work but allowed them to train for other jobs that opened up as a result. How many people worked in offices, worked as printers and did all sorts of things that automation made obsolete in 1950? And how many people worked in tech in 1950? This always happens. The issue today is gov't restrictions on labor that raise the cost.

Sure enough, as economists say : in the long run ( I am still trying to figure out how much time is that, but it's probably more than 30 years and less than a century).

 

[The Rabbi]

Doesnt matter. Go to 1800 and you'll find the right number. Same principle. Labor saving devices put peole out of work but allowed them to train for other jobs that opened up as a result. How many people worked in offices, worked as printers and did all sorts of things that automation made obsolete in 1950? And how many people worked in tech in 1950? This always happens. The issue today is gov't restrictions on labor that raise the cost.

Sure enough, as economists say : in the long run ( I am still trying to figure out how much time is that, but it's probably more than 30 years and less than a century).

You're not listening. The automation trend started in the early 1960s. Yet unemployment varied up and down over the next 30 years. It was a slow process but there wasnt massive unemployment as a result.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

The preamble.

This thread's intended use is to explore the limits of automation and the meaning they hold within the clasic economic resources : labour , land , capital.

How does a model where no labour ( or very little labour ) is required to produce goods and services ?
How would such an economy work?
How would this affect the circular economic model ?

You're whining about the industrial revolution? It's over, get back to work.