Jesus - A Jew, Prophet of Islam, Deity to Christians

[JW Frogen]

Freud called this phenomenon the narcissism of small differences, where people or groups exaggerate, differences in order to preserve a feeling of separateness and self.

Yup, family fights are always the worst.

 

[JW Frogen]

Part-time carpenter, full time rabbi.

Sort of like the on call electrician who works at my building.

He may fix your electrical problem sooner or latter but he will tell you all about the meaning of life right on time.

 

[JW Frogen]

I really like the guy.

 

[jelectric]

All Christian and Jewish Scripture point toward the Messiah's coming. With God, what seems to be a contradiction or paradox is in reality only the fact that only God knows in advance what is to come.

How could God come to earth and be born a child, yet remain God? With God, nothing is impossible. Muslems and Jews seem to be facing this same dilemma that those Jews who awaited the Messiah before Jesus arose faced. It all seems so impossible to both Muslems and Jews. The greatest of kings; born in the humblest of places.... God, born in the flesh!

This is what those Jews alive before Jesus came knew from their prophets and prophecies about the coming Messiah. It all seemed impossible --like a contradictory paradox --until after Jesus came. Suddenly the impossible fell into place:

Jesus, Father of Eternity, yet a Son in time; Chosen of God and elect, yet despised of man; Born King of the Jews, yet rejected by them; Born of a woman, a virgin, yet had no father; Came from Bethlehem, Egypt, Nazareth. Prophecy says "Out of (Bethlehem) shall he come forth" (Micah 5:2); "I have called my son out of Egypt" (Hosea 11:1, Matthew 2:15), "He shall be called a Nazarene" (Isaiah 11:1, Matthew 2:23).

 

[jelectric]

The expression, “son of man,” was used in the Old Testament by Daniel as the term for the Messiah Who, at His second descent to earth at the end of this age, would come “...with the clouds of heaven” (Daniel 7:13,14). This same scene was described in more detail by John:

And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. (Revelation 14:14).

Concomitantly, Jesus’ favorite term for Himself was the “Son of Man” (Matthew 8:20, 9:6, 10:23, 12:8,32,40, 13:37,41, 16:27,28, 17:9,12,22, 18:11, 19:28, 20:18,28, 24:27,30,37,39,44, 25:31, 26:2,24,45; John 1:51, 5:27, 6:27,62, 8:28, 9:35, 12:23, 13:31). Using “Son of Man” really was an expression of humility, an indication of how God actually had been willing to lower Himself to mankind’s level by being born of a virgin (Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:18-25). Now, it generally was accepted by the chief priests and teachers of the law that “Son of Man” meant “Son of God.”

When Jesus was led before the council of the elders of the people (Luke 22:66-71), He made the statement that “...Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.,” they asked, “Are you then the Son of God?” (22:69,70a). Jesus replied, “Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am. His enemies confirmed that they understood this to be a claim by Jesus to be the Son of God by their response, “And they said, What need we any further witness? for we ourselves have heard of his own mouth. ”

 

[jelectric]

In Isaiah 42:8 Jehovah himself is speaking, and He emphatically declares "I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images." Again, in Isaiah 48:11, Jehovah is speaking, and He declares: "For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another."

John 17:5 tells us Jesus said; "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."

Of course that is Jesus speaking of being part of the Godhead Himself. Since God will not share His glory. And Jesus tells us He had this glory with Yahweh/Jehovah before creation. What more proof from Jehovah or the lips of Jesus do you want?

The Scriptures bear unmistakable testimony to the creative activity of God's Son, distinguishing Him from among the "things" created, as the Creator and Sustainer of "all things."

The Book of Colossians:

The entire context of Colossians 1:15-27 is filled with superlatives in its description of the Lord Jesus as the "image of the invisible God, the first begetter [or according to Erasmus ''original bringer forth''] of every creature."

The Apostle Paul lauds the Son of God as Creator of all things (v.16) and describes Him as existing "before all things" and as the one by whom "all things consist" (v.17). This is in perfect harmony with the entire picture Scripture paints of the Eternal Word of God (John 1:1), who was made flesh (John 1:14) and of whom it was written: "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made" (John 1:3). The writer of Hebrews also pointed out that God's Son "[upholds] all things by the word of his power" (Hebrews 1:3) and that He is Deity in all its fullness, even as Paul wrote to the Colossians: "For...in him should all fullness (of God) dwell" (Colossians 1:19)

 

[konradv]

Which Christians became outraged?
--------------------------------

Plenty. I've been on boards where the fundamentalist types didn't even consider Jehovah and Allah to be the same God.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Well........considering that Abraham's wife Sarah had a servant from Egypt who was Hagar that bore Abraham his first son (who was Ishmael). When there was a bit of strife in the tribe (Hagar was trying to take over Sarah's position), Sarah told Abraham that Ishamael and Hagar had to leave, and they were kicked out of the tribe.

Interestingly enough, Hagar was an Egyptian princess. When they were kicked out, according to Islam, Hagar went over to a bush to pray, out of sight of Ishmael.

Why?

I personally think that because Hagar had gotten kicked out of Abraham's tribe, she wasn't necessarily praying to the God of Abraham but rather some Egyptian diety, otherwise, why would she hide herself from her son when she was praying?

Probably because she knew that Ishmael would stop her, as Ishmael would have known the difference just as Abraham did, and Hagar was probably pissed at getting kicked out, so I don't think she would use anything from Abraham's religion.

I do not believe that Allah is the same as HaShem either, and I'm a Taoist that studies Judaic and Christian theology, as well as have investigated a bit of Islam.

 

[Newby]

When I pointed out that Jesus is an important religious figure to both Islam and Christianity, the Christians become outraged. I'm curious why that is.

When I pointed out that the Old Testament, written in Hebrew and Aramaic, is almost completely Jewish. And since Jesus was supposedly Jewish, why do Christians get upset when it's mentioned that religious figure is also a prophet of Islam?

10 brief points Christians should know about Muslims and Jesus

Muslims believe that Jesus was born miraculously of a virgin mother and no father.

Jesus will return before the end of the world.

It's perfectly clear that I have no "mystical" beliefs. I view Judaism, Islam and Christianity as very similar. All religions claim theirs is a religion of "peace". Until you read stuff like:
Jeremiah 48:10 NAB
Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood.

I know from the violence of the Old Testament, Jews aren't any more peaceful and in the Koran, it's almost a study of violence and torture.

The bottom line, all three religions hate being compared to the other two. Why is that?

Because all 3 groups are brainwashed assholes who feel their way is the only way.
They're destroying their lives because of fairy tales.

It's not 'my' way, 'our' way, or 'their' way, it's His way.

 

[ABikerSailor]

When I pointed out that Jesus is an important religious figure to both Islam and Christianity, the Christians become outraged. I'm curious why that is.

When I pointed out that the Old Testament, written in Hebrew and Aramaic, is almost completely Jewish. And since Jesus was supposedly Jewish, why do Christians get upset when it's mentioned that religious figure is also a prophet of Islam?

10 brief points Christians should know about Muslims and Jesus

Muslims believe that Jesus was born miraculously of a virgin mother and no father.

Jesus will return before the end of the world.

It's perfectly clear that I have no "mystical" beliefs. I view Judaism, Islam and Christianity as very similar. All religions claim theirs is a religion of "peace". Until you read stuff like:
Jeremiah 48:10 NAB
Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood.

I know from the violence of the Old Testament, Jews aren't any more peaceful and in the Koran, it's almost a study of violence and torture.

The bottom line, all three religions hate being compared to the other two. Why is that?

Because all 3 groups are brainwashed assholes who feel their way is the only way.
They're destroying their lives because of fairy tales.

It's not 'my' way, 'our' way, or 'their' way, it's His way.

Which "His" way?

Mohammed? Well, I'd have a hard time believing that one, because there is no order to the Koran, and in Genesis it states that in the Beginning it was Chaos, and God brought order to Chaos, which makes me ask..........If Islam is a "true" religion, why is it's holy book so mixed up?

Yeshua? Well, again, I'd have a hard time with that one. Why? Because Yeshua (Jesus) didn't come here for the Jewish people, He came here for the Nations (i.e. everyone who wasn't Jewish), because as God's Chosen People (because of the blessing God gave Abraham for what he did), they are already taken care of. It was the Gentiles (non-Jews) that needed to have the One True God brought to them. Christians are the ones that deified Him and replaced HaShem with Yeshua, because they misunderstood the statement "the Father and I are One".

My personal opinion? I think that many religions have A (not the) correct way to God, but to deny any other way as being valid limits God, because it gives you only one perspective on Him.

I mean........do you look at everything from just one single perspective, or do you like to wander around and get a view of it from as many different angles as you can?

I personally prefer the multiple angle view, because it provides much more information, which results in greater insight.

 

[Newby]

Christians and Muslims are afraid to examine their Scripture for the truth about the Messiah and they both follow tradition rather than their respective Scripture when having to face their differences in the name of the Messiah and whether he was crucified or not.
Muslims accept the confirmation of the Quran that the Messiah was not crucified but they reject the confirmation of the same Quran that the Messiah's name was Isa and not Jesus and so they falsely preach a prophet Jesus of Islam.
Christians reject Islam's view on the crucifixion but they seem to accept that Jesus was a prophet of Islam who is not considered by the Muslims to be the son of God.
The Quran is quite clear about the Messiah and the Bible actually agrees with the Quran that there was a hoax to the crucifixion and also a hoax to the name Jesus as applied to the Biblical Christ, but Muslims and Christians are extremely fearful about opening the Scriptures to see this agreement as it exposes the both sides of being astray from the Scriptures and from the truth.
The Age Of Reason by M A Raheem and Mervyn C Charles examines the Scriptures and arrives at proof of the truth of the hoax of the name of Jesus and the crucifixion but Muslims and Christians turn away from being faced with the reality.
The Quran puts its confirmation in the words of the translation as, "That they said, we killed the Messiah Isa, the son of Mariam, the Apostle of Allah, but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for a surety they killed him not" Quran 4:157

To say that Jesus was crucified would be wholly true according to the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John of the New Testament of the Bible, and this would depend on the true identity of Jesus.
To say that the Messiah or Christ was crucified would definitely be false and misleading and contrary to the claim of the Quran, and the evidence of Scripture as contained in the Bible.
The name of Jesus is a New Testament name that is nowhere to be found in the Old Testament, so that the Old Testament of the Bible disagrees with, or, it cannot be said to be in total agreement with this name that is used to identify the Messiah in the New Testament, but the Quran confirms the Hoax of the crucifixion and the Bible reveals the intricacies of the Hoax for all who wish to see truth.
The Quran never uses the false name of Jesus and, try as you can; there is no way that Isa can be turned into Jesus or can you force Allah to say what He did not.
The four Gospels are the claimants of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, and they are the Gospels of the crucifixion by four, that is to say, that they are used in repetition of the alleged crucifixion, but they are certainly not the Gospels of the fulfillment of the prophecy of the child as named in the prophecy and command of the Lord God of Israel of the Book of Isaiah (Isaiah 7:14) of the Old Testament of the Bible.
Two of the four Gospels (Matthew and Luke) make mention of the naming of the infant Messiah with the name of Jesus, which name defies the prophecy and command of the Lord God of Israel. (Isaiah 7:14)
Jesus of the Gospels replaces Immanuel (Isaiah 7:14), which is referred to as Emmanuel (Matthew1: 23). This represents an annulment of the command of the Lord, by an angel of the Lord, after the child was conceived in the mother’s womb (Matthew 1:20-21).
Matthew attempts to justify this annulment of the command of the Lord as a fulfillment of the prophecy as “spoken” by the prophet (Matthew 1:22), but the prophecy is again altered, with the authority for naming the child being shifted from the virgin to “they,” whoever they may be.
The prophecy and command of the Lord, was one of conception without a father, “a virgin shall conceive” (Isaiah 7:14), which is repeated in Matthew’s reference, with what seems to be a slight twist to the original prophecy, becoming The prophecy and command of the Lord, was one of conception without a father, “a virgin shall conceive” (Isaiah 7:14), which is repeated in Matthew’s reference, with what seems to be a slight twist to the original prophecy, becoming, “a virgin shall be with child.” (Matthew 1: 23)
Luke reports that an Angel of God, Gabriel by name, appears to the virgin before conception (Luke 1:26-31), which would be before Matthew’s angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph “in a dream,” after conception. (Matthew1: 20)
Luke appears to be reading his command to the virgin from the prophecy of Isaiah (Isaiah 7:14) as he states, “And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.” (Luke 1:31) Here, Luke agrees with the earlier prophecy that the virgin shall name the son, with the exception and/or alteration of Immanuel, (Isaiah 7:14) and/or Emmanuel. (Matthew 1:23) with the insertion of JESUS.
Luke goes one step further and reports the naming of the child eight days after his birth, at his circumcision, at which time, “his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.” (Luke 2:21)
Luke comes after the duplicated crucifixion of Jesus in the Gospels of Matthew and Mark, by which time Matthew has already named the child, who has twice gone through the crucifixion of Jesus King of the Jews.
Luke introduces a different chronological order of events that does not help to remove uncertainty and confusion, so that the breach of the command of the Lord God of Israel comes from what can be said to be:
• One or two different angels (the angel is not named in Matthew while Gabriel is the angel of Luke),
• In two different locations, (to Joseph, after he became conscious of her pregnancy, while he slept, in Matthew, and to Mary, before conception in Luke),
• On two separate occasions, (which is quite obvious, being before and after conception).
We are informed by Luke that the mother was aware that “that which was conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost” (Matthew 1: 20), before she conceived and after she “was espoused to a man named Joseph” (Luke 1: 27), and yet Joseph was not considered until after he contemplated putting her away for being unfaithful. This confusion and scandal must be viewed as no more than a sacrilegious distortion of Scripture.
We have Joseph being authorized to name the child Jesus in Matthew by the angel (Matthew 1:21) to which he complied (Matthew 1: 25). The mother is authorized to name the child Jesus in Luke (Luke 1:31), to which Luke offers no evidence that she did comply. Both Gospels therefore do agree that the virgin was in no way responsible for the alteration of the name of her child nor for the confusion in the naming of the child with an improper name.
Muslims and Christians conceal their misunderstanding in Yeshua and Joshua as Jesus when Yeshua or Joshua translates Yah or Jah is Salvation.
The four Gospels also carry the Hoax that far while it is left to the reader to bring the Hoax into the open by bringing the Gospels together into one story and bringing the jigs of the jig-saw puzzle in place to show the chronology of events and the truth of the beautiful planning and the execution of the plan and the two thieves named Jesus.

There is no Jesus in Islam.

Matthew

20But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, "Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. 21She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus,[c] because he will save his people from their sins."

22All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: 23"The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel"[d]—which means, "God with us."

'They will call him Immanuel' does not necessarily refer to His 'parents', it refers to His people. 'Give him the name' and 'they will call him' are two different concepts.

Jesus was declared to be the Mighty God and Everlasting Father long before he was ever conceived in the womb of Mary. The Everlasting Father became the child and son born in the manger. Therefore Jesus truly is Immanuel, God with us. Jesus is Almighty God become a man.

 

[Newby]

Because all 3 groups are brainwashed assholes who feel their way is the only way.
They're destroying their lives because of fairy tales.

It's not 'my' way, 'our' way, or 'their' way, it's His way.

Which "His" way?

Mohammed? Well, I'd have a hard time believing that one, because there is no order to the Koran, and in Genesis it states that in the Beginning it was Chaos, and God brought order to Chaos, which makes me ask..........If Islam is a "true" religion, why is it's holy book so mixed up?

Yeshua? Well, again, I'd have a hard time with that one. Why? Because Yeshua (Jesus) didn't come here for the Jewish people, He came here for the Nations (i.e. everyone who wasn't Jewish), because as God's Chosen People (because of the blessing God gave Abraham for what he did), they are already taken care of. It was the Gentiles (non-Jews) that needed to have the One True God brought to them. Christians are the ones that deified Him and replaced HaShem with Yeshua, because they misunderstood the statement "the Father and I are One".

My personal opinion? I think that many religions have A (not the) correct way to God, but to deny any other way as being valid limits God, because it gives you only one perspective on Him.

I mean........do you look at everything from just one single perspective, or do you like to wander around and get a view of it from as many different angles as you can?

I personally prefer the multiple angle view, because it provides much more information, which results in greater insight.

I'm not the one who said there was only one way, He was the one who said it. You either believe it, or you don't. Your choice.

 

[HUGGY]

When I pointed out that Jesus is an important religious figure to both Islam and Christianity, the Christians become outraged. I'm curious why that is.
When I pointed out that the Old Testament, written in Hebrew and Aramaic, is almost completely Jewish. And since Jesus was supposedly Jewish, why do Christians get upset when it's mentioned that religious figure is also a prophet of Islam?

10 brief points Christians should know about Muslims and Jesus

Muslims believe that Jesus was born miraculously of a virgin mother and no father.

Jesus will return before the end of the world.

It's perfectly clear that I have no "mystical" beliefs. I view Judaism, Islam and Christianity as very similar. All religions claim theirs is a religion of "peace". Until you read stuff like:
Jeremiah 48:10 NAB
Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood.

I know from the violence of the Old Testament, Jews aren't any more peaceful and in the Koran, it's almost a study of violence and torture.

The bottom line, all three religions hate being compared to the other two. Why is that?

I'm with ya ..guy. When I pointed out that Christians are the greatest danger to the survival of our species they got all uppity and over reactionary like. They are unstable wagon circlejerks.

 

[Newby]

Your schtick is getting old Huggy, no one cares what you think. I'll pray for you tho.

 

[HUGGY]

Your schtick is getting old Huggy, no one cares what you think. I'll pray for you tho.

Ya ..right! Thats why I have over 40,000 views on just one of my threads... Dream a little dream for me..fuckwit.

 

[Newby]

Your schtick is getting old Huggy, no one cares what you think. I'll pray for you tho.

Ya ..right! Thats why I have over 40,000 views on just one of my threads... Dream a little dream for me..fuckwit.

Why would you think a view count is indicative of anything? As I said, you've said the same things ad nauseum more times than I care to count. Why are you so insecure that you have to attack others for their beliefs? Maybe that's a question you need to ponder.

 

[AllieBaba]

When I read posts by Gay Biker, smeggy and rdick, I'm amazed by the level of anti-social, mentally ill ignorance an individual can subscribe to.

 

[HUGGY]

Your schtick is getting old Huggy, no one cares what you think. I'll pray for you tho.

Ya ..right! Thats why I have over 40,000 views on just one of my threads... Dream a little dream for me..fuckwit.

Why would you think a view count is indicative of anything? As I said, you've said the same things ad nauseum more times than I care to count. Why are you so insecure that you have to attack others for their beliefs? Maybe that's a question you need to ponder.

Maybe because you and your kind are stupid and dangerous. I prefer to trust mine and my species survival on our best intelligence.......not on your idiotic faith in invisible entities and other voodoo. Rapture is not an exit strategy. I may not have all the answers but I sure as skippy can come up with a better plan than the one you morons believe in. Frankly I would have no problem if you kept your "faith" to yourselves..but you don't. You seem to have somehow aquired this odd concept that you are "in charge" of our future visa vie your imaginary friend. You are wrong in that assumtion and as I stated earlier ...it is offensive and dangerous.

 

[AllieBaba]

No, we feel compelled to spread the word in order to save the lost.

We don't want you to go to hell. But it's obvious that many are determined to go anyway.

 

[del]

Your schtick is getting old Huggy, no one cares what you think. I'll pray for you tho.

Ya ..right! Thats why I have over 40,000 views on just one of my threads... Dream a little dream for me..fuckwit.

people go to see freak shows, too.

most people don't think it's because they admire the lizard boy and the bearded lady.

go figure