It's not 'Death Panels'...it's individual rights

Discussion in 'Healthcare/Insurance/Govt Healthcare' started by Bfgrn, Jan 30, 2011.

  1. Bfgrn
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    Bfgrn Gold Member

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    Promoting advanced directives puts decisions in proper hands

    It’s hard to imagine how a compassionate, family-friendly measure — a measure that ultimately respects individual rights — could be twisted so grossly into the erroneous phrase “death panels.”

    But, prepare yourself for more lies and more nonsense, because President Barack Obama has decided to do the right thing — and his critics already have resorted to fear-mongering and name-calling.

    The concept of advanced directives was pioneered in La Crosse, thanks to our two first-class health care institutions.

    It’s a simple concept: An individual, with the help of family, should have the ultimate say in the type of end-of-life care the individual receives. The best way to do that is through a careful consultation, with family and physician, before there is a health crisis — while the individual is still capable of having a rational voice in the decision.

    Too often, those decisions are made when it’s too late for the individual to make the decisions. Instead, grieving family members are left to make the decision — and at times it’s nothing more than a guess.

    Would the individual want extraordinary measures taken when the end is near? Why wouldn’t we trust the individual — in advance and when thinking clearly — to make that decision?

    For those who crusade for the rights of the individual, here’s the question: Why are you so opposed to the individual being able to set down on paper, with help from family and physician, the standards and wishes for end-of-life care?

    More

    La Crosse Wisconsin Has Highest Rate Of Living Wills, Lowest Cost Of Care

    Nearly all adults who die in La Crosse, 96 percent of them, die with a completed advance directive.

    La Crosse health care systems offer a model of efficiency

    Medicare spent 30% less on average for each beneficiary in the La Crosse area than the national average in 2006, the most recent year for which data is available, according to the Dartmouth Atlas of Health Care.

    It spent 64.5% less than in Miami and 61% less than in McAllen, Texas, the two most costly areas. And it spent 23% less than in the Milwaukee area.
     
  2. Bfgrn
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    Bfgrn Gold Member

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  3. Rat in the Hat
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    Rat in the Hat Gold Member

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  4. Im a Nun
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    Im a Nun BANNED

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    From the Land of Sky Blue Waters,
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  5. waltky
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    waltky Wise ol' monkey Supporting Member

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    Granny says if any dem dearth panels come after her...

    ... dey gonna have to take her out kickin' an' screamin'.
    :eusa_hand:
     
  6. ShaklesOfBigGov
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    ShaklesOfBigGov Restore the Republic

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    Obama Returns to End-of-Life Plan That Caused Stir
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/26/us/politics/26death.html?_r=2&hp
    New York Times: By ROBERT PEAR

    WASHINGTON — When a proposal to encourage end-of-life planning touched off a political storm over “death panels,” Democrats dropped it from legislation to overhaul the Health Care system. But the Obama administration will achieve the same goal by regulation, starting Jan. 1.

    Under the new policy, outlined in a Medicare regulation, the government will pay doctors who advise patients on options for end-of-life care, which may include advance directives to forgo aggressive life-sustaining treatment.

    Congressional supporters of the new policy, though pleased, have kept quiet.




    Now why are doctors being provided a "BONUS" check from the Federal Government, if they can possibly sway patients away from costly procedures? The Obama administration, along with Nancy Pelosi, have BOASTED cost control with this new Health Care legislation. At the same time there is a "financial benefit" given to doctors, in exchange [with the understanding] for consulting patients to possibly "forgo aggressive life-sustaining treatment". Why the need for the Federal Government's FINANCIAL INVOLVEMENT with patient decisions, given through doctors? A question I have YET to have answered.

    Don't think GOVERNMENT Health care costs are an issue? Look at the FACTS presented about the states of Massachusetts, whose Health Care System many Democrats view as the "model" for the entire nation.




    Massachusetts Faces Costs of Big Health Care Plan
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/16/health/policy/16mass.html
    New York Times: By KEVIN SACK

    Alan Sager, a professor of health policy at Boston University, has calculated that health spending per person in Massachusetts increased faster than the national average in seven of the last eight years. Furthermore, he said, the gap has grown exponentially, with Massachusetts now spending about a third more per person, up from 23 percent in 1980.

    “Just as this may have been the easiest place to do coverage, it may be the most difficult place to do cost control,” said Jonathan Gruber, a health economist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.



    Skyrocketing Massachusetts Health Care Costs could Foreshadow high price of ObamaCare
    http://dailycaller.com/2010/03/23/s...sts-could-foreshadow-high-price-of-obamacare/
    By Aleksandra Kulczuga - The Daily Caller

    Like the bill that President Obama signed on Sunday, the 2006 Massachusetts plan was sold to voters on the now-familiar promise that it would reduce costs and lower unnecessary emergency room visits. That’s not what happened.

    Since the bill became law, the state’s total direct health-care spending has increased by a remarkable 52 percent. Medicaid spending has gone from less than $6 billion a year to more the $9 billion. Many consumers have seen double-digit percentage increases in their premiums.

    Even more striking, the 2006 law has done little to ease the burden on emergency rooms, a central goal of all heath care reform plans. A report by the Boston Globe found that in the first two years of the program, the state’s ER costs actually rose by 17 percent. “They said that ER visits would drop by 75 percent, and it hasn’t been even close to that,” said State Treasurer Tim Cahill, who is currently running for governor as an Independent.



    The pattern of PREMIUM INCREASES that Massachusetts residence saw has already begun:


    Blue Shield of California seeks rate hikes of as much as 59% for individuals
    http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jan/05/business/la-fi-insure-rates-20110106
    By Duke Helfand, Los Angeles Times
    Insurer says the increases result from fast-rising healthcare costs and other expenses resulting from new healthcare laws. The move comes less than a year after Anthem Blue Cross tried and failed to raise rates as much as 39%.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2011
  7. jillian
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    jillian Princess Supporting Member

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    could you please post links properly and stop with the multicolored garbage.

    i mean, if you actually want people to read what you post.
     
  8. Bern80
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    Bern80 Gold Member

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    Seems to be the left that wants to rephrase the debate here, but pretending what republicans are going after is advanced directives. Nothing could be further from the truth. My parents have advanced directives of which I am responsible for carrying out should circumstances call for it. This is not at all what the right is referring to as death panels.

    The right is referring to the state deciding your end of life treatment as OPPOSED to your family. If government is paying the bills and they have a shortage of resources, which invariably happens with government run inefficiency they will be forced to ration care presumabley by priortizing need. Cold objectivity says a 30 year old is more deserving and society better served by giving him a heart transplant than an 80 year old in failing health with few years left. THAT is what is meant by death panels. GOVERNMENT beaurracrat deciding what resources you are worth using. Whether Obamacare will bring us to that point or not, who knows. But most any state run health care system eventually ends up having to ration it.
     
  9. FA_Q2
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    FA_Q2 Gold Member

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    Bern80, This is EXACTLY what death panels were spurred by though the term was a bad one to chose as the left is trying to use it as a beating stick. The FACT is that the government will choose what procedures are going to be paid for and what ones are not. That REMOVED the ability for you and your doctor to choose what the best care is and it will be based solely on money. That is downright scary. With an insurance company you have a fallback as there is the LAW and the courts that you can address to keep the companies in line. What do you think is going to happen when the SAME single entity controls not only the money that is paid out but also the laws, regulations and requirements. Having an insurance company that is separate from the law allows some oversight that once taken away will allow the government to make whatever choices it deems necessary to save a few bucks.
     
  10. Greenbeard
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    Greenbeard Gold Member

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    Really? Let's rewind the clock about six weeks when CMS made the terrifying decision to clarify that advance care planning is covered as part of the new annual wellness visit open to Medicare recipients.

    How did the most popular conservative news outlet, Newsmax, treat this?

    Obama Embraces 'Death Panel' Concept in Medicare Rule
    Sunday, 26 Dec 2010 06:41 PM

    During the stormy debate over his healthcare plan, President Barack Obama promised his program would not "pull the plug on grandma," and Congress dropped plans for death panels and "end of life" counseling that would encourage aged patients from partaking in costly medical procedures.

    Opponents of Obama's plan, including former vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin, dubbed such efforts as "death panels" that would encourage euthanasia.

    But on Dec. 3, the Obama administration seemingly flouted the will of Congress by issuing a new Medicare regulation detailing "voluntary advance care planning" that is to be included during patients' annual checkups. The regulation aimed at the aged "may include advance directives to forgo aggressive life-sustaining treatment," The New York Times reported.​

    Here's good old Rush:

    See, Sarah Palin Told You So: Obama Death Panels are Back
    January 5, 2011

    BEGIN TRANSCRIPT
    RUSH: The White House apparently has flip-flopped again. Last week they were caught trying to sneak in the death panels, essentially. A federal rule that Medicaid doctors, in order get paid by Medicaid, Medicare, had to have end-of-life discussions with their seasoned citizen patients once a year. What's an end-of-life discussion? An end-of-life discussion is, "All right, the day's gonna come where you're gonna die, and you may know you're gonna die before you're gonna die, and we want you to figure out when it is you want to die so we can pull the plug, you won't be a burden on society, on Obama, or Obama's health care plan. We got a lot of money to spend on a lot of people." ​

    The conservative American Spectator told us "Berwick sets up death panels by fiat."

    This isn't some liberal myth; many conservative and Republican opinionmakers (and, undoubtedly, their dittoheads) do indeed associate advanced care planning with "death panels."
     

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