Israeli Official Spills: We Knew Obama Wanted ‘Revenge’

[PaintMyHouse]

As long Bibi plays it alone, play on...

 

[gallantwarrior]

Of course, Israel sits in the middle of this, with no say on the negotiating process. So what do you expect them to do? Sit there and take it? Israel has to act in the best interests of its survival, not your sensitivities, ma'am.

What's weird is that you give Israel this consideration, but not the president of the U.S. If Israel must do what's best for Israel, then why can't the U.S. do what's best for the U.S.?

Except, the current occupant of the WH does nothing that could be construed to be in the best interests of the US.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Do "loyal allies" spy on us?

Do loyal allies let ruin come to their fellow allies by negotiating a dangerous agreement with one of their enemies?

 

[gallantwarrior]

Obama is a disgrace, fuck him and everyone who supports him. I'm good with the hatred that will come my way.

Well, hate seems to come as second nature to the right these days. Then in the next breath they'll talk about this being a Christian nation!

They've struck a new low. Even the Dems, as much as they hated Bush, never applauded foreign nations for spying us or placed foreign rulers like Putin or Netanyahu above our own President - regardless of who occupied that position. The level of hate is unbelievable.

Of course, Israel sits in the middle of this, with no say on the negotiating process. So what do you expect them to do? Sit there and take it? Israel has to act in the best interests of its survival, not your sensitivities, ma'am.

Israel, along with Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Syria, Iraq, Yeman, Oman, Qatar, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Turkmanistan, etc.

Would you be applauding Pakistan if it was leaking secret information attempting to scuttle diplomacy? Saudi Arabia? Would you be making excuses for Yeman spying on us? Or, are you sensitivities limited sir?

Israel certainly should act in it's own interests, but I would expect Americans to act in American interests - not applauding foreign spying.

I am going to accuse you of a bit of hero worship, Coyote. Obama does not in fact have a halo around his head, and he can do a lot of wrong. He already doesn't like Netanyahu, and for good reason, Netanyahu is a threat to him, and it shows. He [Obama] knows what Iran wants to do to Israel, yet he continues without considering the implications to Israel.

It may surprise you to know that I never thought Obama has a halo around his head and he can be wrong. You and I will certainly disagree on just what that is.

Netanyahu is no threat to Obama, in fact - Netanyahu is alone responsible for any consequences his behavior may have caused. He has two more years of having to work with a key - HUGELY key ally, who's good will he needs more than we need his.

As Americans, I would have thought American interests come first, regardless of how you feel about a particular President. I am quite certain that my feelings about Bush line up with yours on Obama, but I never applauded foreign countries spying on us or attempting to damage negotiations.

Obama is not, nor has he ever been, a "key" ally of Israel. If there is one nation Obama hates more that the US, it has to be Israel.

 

[Antares]

Israel is a loyal ally, too bad this administration hasn't the same sense of loyalty and commitment.

Do "loyal allies" spy on us? Leak sensitive information on ongoing negotiations?

(smile) Your King has betrayed our allies.

Iran is our Mortal enemy, if you don't know that you are dismissed as a ninny.

Lol...you got a mouse in your pocket?

Go get you some 12th Imam kid.

Lol...angry little insignificant Israel Firster.

I am very comfy with your ignorance kid.

 

[gallantwarrior]

________________________
What is that?

It's the line in the sand.

Please don't confuse me with someone who gives a shit what you anti Semites think, every one of you like your King chooses Radical Islam over a Democratic Ally.

Oh yes. Disagree with Israel and we're all "anti-semites". That card gets old fast.

Almost as fast as the race card gets old to the grown ups in the room.

 

[Antares]

________________________
What is that?

It's the line in the sand.

Please don't confuse me with someone who gives a shit what you anti Semites think, every one of you like your King chooses Radical Islam over a Democratic Ally.

Oh yes. Disagree with Israel and we're all "anti-semites". That card gets old fast.

Obama has betrayed an ally.

Obama is a traitor, I detest him and I detest his followers.

It is what it is.

As a Mod you should be more concerned with LL and his off topic troll.

(shrugs) Oh well.

I'm on topic. You are the topic. Once you go nuts in a thread, you get to be the topic. Haven't you learned anything in all this time?

Dance mailman......

 

[TemplarKormac]

I've made my case, now it's up to the members of this thread to prove me wrong.

Here's why Bibi and Barry are feuding; the (corporate) world is waking to Israel's racist occupation of Palestine.

The amazing things we achieved together in 2014 BDSmovement.net

This isn't kindergarten. You'll have to do more than play pop up pictures with me, okay? Oh, and stop repeating that "Israel is occupying Palestine" meme, okay? Not really in the mood for it.

 

[Coyote]

Here is the difference. Netanyahu disrespected OUR president TK

Who cares? Obama just returns the favor instead of rising above it!

Rise above it? In diplomatic communications - there are a lot of nuances, including consequences. You don't just rise above an "ally" that is deliberately trying to undermine your negotiations.

it does NOT matter who occupies that position - it's OUR president. In terms of alliances

Don't lecture me. He is in fact, NOT my president. He has betrayed my trust too many times. He has betrayed and denigrated the very office he holds by the behavior he has engaged in. He has brought low the standards of integrity that office is supposed to represent. No. I respect the office, not the man who holds it.

If you are going to lecture me...be prepared for turnabout I considered GWB the single worst President we ever had. I could go on in detail as to why, but that is irrelevant. Needless to say my respect for him probably parallels yours for Obama. That being said - I did not disrespect is office, his position, nor did I ever put another foreign leader above him or that leaders interests above ours. You say you respect the office - I don't see that at all, because if you did you would respect it no matter who held it.

Israel needs us more than we need them (and no, that is not being anti-semitic, that's reality)

Really? This is reality according to you. You know, I would be looked down upon for simply thinking in such a manner. In fact, the statement "they need us more than we need them" is something I would expect a Don in the Italian Mafia to say.

No, it's not reality according to me. It's reality according to the real world. Are relationships amongst allies always equal? No. Do a reality check here. Here's an example - China and North Korea are allies. Does China need North Korea as much as North Korea needs China?

Ask yourself:
Why does Israel need us?
Why do we need Israel?

That's not knocking Israel - it's the reality of how the world works. Each country has it's own interests first and formost and creates alliances based upon that.

and disrespecting our president is not exactly the way maintain a relationship that is less necessary for us then for them.

Yanno, you're forgetting the fact that Obama pays in kind. He is not alien to handing out disrespect himself. Oh, poor pity him. I could care less. He deserves every last iota of it.

Whatever you feel - I get you could care less. But it's not about Obama. It's about the office of the president of the United States.

You guys, on the right, are so full of hatred for Obama

That's the oldest play in the book. I don't hate him, I simply don't respect him. He's a petty liar, plainly put. I don't respect liars. Now, what else are you going to accuse us of? Hating him because he's black? That might have worked 7 years ago, but that's no longer a viable argument. Playing the hate card is patently beneath you, by doing so you would hide your hatred of Israel. Believe me, you've made it very clear in the post I'm quoting at this very minute.

If you don't respect liars, then why on earth do you respect Netanyahu?

And have I EVER accused you of hating him because he's black?

And here are, lecturing me on playing the "hate card" while simultaneously pulling the "hatred of Israel" card? Seriously?

So wanting to treat Israel like any other ally means you "hate Israel"
Being angry that they have leaked sensitive information and are attempting to derail negotations that your President is conducting means you "hate Israel".
Being angry that they are spying on your country means you "hate Israel".

That's a cheap and shoddy card you are now pulling. Sir.

that you let it overrule your respect for the position he occupies

In reality it hasn't. Read my second response. I will respect the position all day long, but the man who holds it? Don't bet on it. My sense of integrity overrules my respect for Obama.

so much so, you will allow, encourage, and excuse foreign leaders who disrespect it (Putin, Netanyahu)

Stop being Pharisaical. Obama brings a lot of ridicule on himself. He has done zero to help his image internationally. He condemns others, yet does things that are worthy of condemnation. Unlike you, or Obama, we think commitment means something. I was raised on keeping promises, even to people I don't like. Its part of being virtuous.

Feeling pretty sanctimoneous here are you?

I've never seen this before and Obama is far from the worst President we've had.

So, what exactly has he done to help us? Obama is by far, the most detrimental influence this country has ever known. His election reopened old racial wounds in this country, and now we are reaping the results. He has furthered an already deep divide between Americans. He negotiates with those who wish to destroy both US and Israel. The man has his priorities, none of which include the integrity of the office he holds, or that America's interests. His priorities include only his ideological interests. He failed, and is now a pitiful, pathetic excuse for a President.

I would mourn should some coward come and take his life. That's not in question.

That is a matter of opinion.

Even Bush was not treated this way and believe me - there was as good a reason to do so in the minds of his detractors as there is for Obama's detractors.

This "oh woe is Obama" argument is getting old. With all due respect to you, and please know I consider you a friend, but you really need to get over it.

Think about it TK.

No.

Israel is a foreign nation - another country with it's OWN interests that may or may not coincide with us. Like any other country.

And this justifies respecting Obama how? It is in both our interests for A) because Israel is our only reliable ally in the Middle East, and B) because without us, Israel would be inevitably destroyed by her enemies.

It's not about respecting Obama. It's respecting the office. It's about not applauding another country for spying on us, for leaking sensitive information and for disrespecting the office of the American president. And, frankly, you just made my point - Israel needs us far more than we need Israel in the overall balance of things.

Obama's relationship with Netanyahu and his revulsion to Israel reminds me of a story of a Fox and the Scorpion:

A fox was preparing to cross a river when he came across a scorpion. That scorpion asked "take me on your back that I may cross the river also" but the fox said "no, if I do, you'll sting me." The scorpion then pleaded, "why would I do that? If I did we'd both drown!" So, the fox agreed, and the scorpion climbed atop his back, and they both began to cross the river. When the fox halfway across the river, the scorpion stung him, as the poison filled his body, the Fox lamented, "why did you do that? Now both of us will drown!" The scorpion replied, "I could not help it, it is my nature."

I'll leave it to your imagination to figure out who the scorpion and the fox are supposed to represent.

Putting that silly story aside, let's clarify a few things.

What exactly has Obama done that represents "revulsion" of Israel? Specific policies?

What is important to our country first and formost? Our interests? Someone elses?

Our interests, and Israel is one of them. Hate to break it to you.

Hate to break it to you, but Israel's interests are not necessarily ours and ours are not necessarily Israel's. It's an ally. The US and Israel are two seperate countries even if some don't seem to realize that.

Israel is NO different than any other ally - or it shouldn't be.

Oh really? Name me one ally that is surrounded on all sides by those who wish to destroy them. Tell me, what good is it to abandon someone who needs you?

[/QUOTE]

Well, that really depends now doesn't it? You present it as an all or nothing situation - we're either with them (regardless of what they do) or against them. That is a false dichotomy.

Putting pressure on Israel to adjust some of it's positions is not "abandoning" them.
Making Israel accountable for some of it's choices (no longer working for a two-state solution, leaking sensitive information) - is not "abandoning" it - but it's one area where their interests and our interests are no longer aligned.
Everyone has to face consequences for it's actions and policies, but the US has largely sheltered Israel from the consequences of it's policies. Maybe that needs to change. It's not abandoning them, because no one is going to allow Israel to be attacked. But maybe the relationship needs to be rebalanced.

And speaking of "old cards" - don't you think the "David and Goliath" portrayal of Israel is, itself a bit old?

 

[TemplarKormac]

Putting pressure on Israel to adjust some of it's positions is not "abandoning" them.

In this life, we call it coercion.

 

[Preacher]

Do "loyal allies" spy on us? Leak sensitive information on ongoing negotiations?

(smile) Your King has betrayed our allies.

Iran is our Mortal enemy, if you don't know that you are dismissed as a ninny.

Lol...you got a mouse in your pocket?

Go get you some 12th Imam kid.

Lol...angry little insignificant Israel Firster.

I am very comfy with your ignorance kid.

Keep crying...its like my 3 year old throwing a fit

 

[gallantwarrior]

Putting pressure on Israel to adjust some of it's positions is not "abandoning" them.

In this life, we call it coercion.

Bullying is alive and well in international politics.

 

[Coyote]

Obama is a disgrace, fuck him and everyone who supports him. I'm good with the hatred that will come my way.

Well, hate seems to come as second nature to the right these days. Then in the next breath they'll talk about this being a Christian nation!

They've struck a new low. Even the Dems, as much as they hated Bush, never applauded foreign nations for spying us or placed foreign rulers like Putin or Netanyahu above our own President - regardless of who occupied that position. The level of hate is unbelievable.

Of course, Israel sits in the middle of this, with no say on the negotiating process. So what do you expect them to do? Sit there and take it? Israel has to act in the best interests of its survival, not your sensitivities, ma'am.

Israel, along with Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Syria, Iraq, Yeman, Oman, Qatar, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Turkmanistan, etc.

Would you be applauding Pakistan if it was leaking secret information attempting to scuttle diplomacy? Saudi Arabia? Would you be making excuses for Yeman spying on us? Or, are you sensitivities limited sir?

Israel certainly should act in it's own interests, but I would expect Americans to act in American interests - not applauding foreign spying.

I am going to accuse you of a bit of hero worship, Coyote. Obama does not in fact have a halo around his head, and he can do a lot of wrong. He already doesn't like Netanyahu, and for good reason, Netanyahu is a threat to him, and it shows. He [Obama] knows what Iran wants to do to Israel, yet he continues without considering the implications to Israel.

It may surprise you to know that I never thought Obama has a halo around his head and he can be wrong. You and I will certainly disagree on just what that is.

Netanyahu is no threat to Obama, in fact - Netanyahu is alone responsible for any consequences his behavior may have caused. He has two more years of having to work with a key - HUGELY key ally, who's good will he needs more than we need his.

As Americans, I would have thought American interests come first, regardless of how you feel about a particular President. I am quite certain that my feelings about Bush line up with yours on Obama, but I never applauded foreign countries spying on us or attempting to damage negotiations.

Obama is not, nor has he ever been, a "key" ally of Israel. If there is one nation Obama hates more that the US, it has to be Israel.

Exactly what policies has Obama inacted that supports that?

 

[TemplarKormac]

What exactly has Obama done that represents "revulsion" of Israel? Specific policies?

Have you not been reading the news? Or have you been too busy painting Obama as the victim to notice? First and foremost he demanded that Israel revert to it's pre-1967 borders. Second, go Youtube his conversation with Nicholas Sarkozy. Third, Obama's reaction to Netanyahu when he came to give his speech. Fourth, his reaction to Netanyahu after he won the Israeli election.

Need I go on?

 

[Coyote]

________________________
What is that?

It's the line in the sand.

Please don't confuse me with someone who gives a shit what you anti Semites think, every one of you like your King chooses Radical Islam over a Democratic Ally.

Oh yes. Disagree with Israel and we're all "anti-semites". That card gets old fast.

Almost as fast as the race card gets old to the grown ups in the room.

Who pulled he race card?

 

[konradv]

Do "loyal allies" spy on us?

Do loyal allies let ruin come to their fellow allies by negotiating a dangerous agreement with one of their enemies?

That's merely opinion, since the final form of the agreement is unknown.

 

[Coyote]

Do "loyal allies" spy on us?

Do loyal allies let ruin come to their fellow allies by negotiating a dangerous agreement with one of their enemies?

The agreement is not completed.

Do loyal allies try to force their fellow allies into a war of choice?

 

[TemplarKormac]

Exactly what policies has Obama inacted that supports that?

It isn't a policy, it actually something in the works:

The nuclear deal with Iran. If that doesn't have "I hate Israel" written all over it. I don't know what does.

 

[Coyote]

Putting pressure on Israel to adjust some of it's positions is not "abandoning" them.

In this life, we call it coercion.

Oh? So all negotiations that involve one or the other adjusting positions are coercion?

 

[TemplarKormac]

Do loyal allies try to force their fellow allies into a war of choice?

Uh, and how are we being forced?

Do loyal allies coerce other allies into changing their own stances simply because they disagree with their stances? I'm sorry. Not playing this game.