Osomir
VIP Member
If you oppose jews being able to preserve themselves as a ethnic and religious identity, and securing this through a state, you are anti semitic. It is that simple.That is a dishonest framing of the issue and typical nazi obfuscation. No one said the US was a nazi state. But anyone who opposes the right of self determination and statehood for the jewish people is a nazi or anti semite or both. Denying the Jews to have an explicitly jewish state, ethnically and religiously is antisemitic. Why is every other group allowed this self determination and preservation of their identity accept for jews?No, anyone that wants to get rid of israel as a jewish state or leave it open to exterminationist islamic terrorists is a nazi or a nazi sympathizer trying to finish hitler's work.
That's a bit of a logical fallacy. Supporting democracy based on variables outside of ethnic identity doesn't make one a Nazi. Hell, that's the model that we as a country tend to support for ourselves. That hardly makes everyone who supports US democracy Nazis.
Talk about a dishonest framing. Being apposed to basing national identity and potentially citizenship on a single ethnic or religious identity is not the same as being a Nazi. I'm not a fan of ethnic or religious based national identity. Growing up in a country that brought forth a new style of nation (one of a melting pot and of a political rather than strict ethnic or religious national identity) I don't find the Israeli Jewish state that appealing, much in the same way that I don't find Saudi Arabia's Islamic based state very appealing as an institution. I'm not a big fan of discriminatory states along ethnic and religious lines. Suggesting that such a preference makes one a Nazi or antisemitic reeks of desperation and intellectual dishonesty.
That makes a lot of Jews apparently antisemitic. My opposition to the Israeli state in its current expression has nothing to do with its citizens specific ethinicities or religions; it has to do with its violation of my basic standards of governmental rule and its related institutions.
If anyone denied this right to any other group, say kosovars, ukrainians, irish, vietnamese, african nations etc, that would be considered antagonistic prejudiced and chauvinist towards that group of people.
We literally do this all of the time. Nigeria for example has around 250 different ethno-linguistic groups alone and they don't get to have their own independent discriminatory states.
To borrow from Thomas Friedman's writings, Israel has three main overarching goals:
1.) Democracy
2.) Maintaining a Jewish nature (being a Jewish state)
3.) Expansion into greater Israel
It gets to pick two. Personally I am more partial to democracy than I am to exclusionary states based on ethnic identity or religion. The very notion of having a state based on ethnic or religious identity goes completely against what the United States stands for as a political and national entity.