Israeli Court Convicts Palestinian Child Who Was Nearly Beaten To Death By Mob

[Phoenall]

A Palestinian child, Ahmad Manasra, 14, was convicted Tuesday of two counts of attempted murder, despite a lack of evidence, a video showing him being severely beaten and insulted by a crowd shouting racial slurs, and video showing Israeli interrogators brutalizing and intimidating the crying child with no family member or lawyer present.

Manasra was 13 at the time of his arrest, and the Israeli court decided to allow the prosecution’s request to delay his court hearing until January, when he turned 14 and was allowed, under Israeli law, to be tried as an adult. The Israeli Knesset used Manasra’s case as an example when they voted several months ago to change the age at which a Palestinian child can be tried as an adult from 14 to 12.

Israeli children, in contrast, are considered ‘minors’ until the age of 18.
Israeli Court Convicts Palestinian Child Who Was Nearly Beaten To Death By Mob
Happy Birthday

Surprisingly, the linked al-Jazeera story (below) says absolutely nothing about Manasra being "Nearly Beaten to Death by Mob."

Could it be that Mintpress - a site whose contributors are not journalists but rather activists/bloggers - has, like you, an agenda that willfully - even eagerly - plays fast and loose with the facts?

Perhaps you believe al-Jazeera is a Zionist media outlet?

The kid was complicit in an unprovoked knife attack on others. Like the Israeli who was recently convicted and sentenced for his part in such an attack, Manasra should and will face Israeli court justice.

Get over it.

Palestinian teen could face 'maximum sentence'

The article also states:

According to Israeli law, children under 14 cannot be sentenced to jail. Last November, however, in a preliminary vote, the Israeli Knesset approved a bill that would allow Palestinian minors under 14 who are facing terrorism charges to receive prison sentences, which they would start serving upon turning 14.

If passed, the law would only affect children who are citizens of Israel, as Israeli military law already allows for children from the occupied West Bank and Gaza to be placed in security prisons from the age of 12.​

So they are reducing the age for ISREALI children and not for Palestinian's. do you think that is fair ?

Have you not read anything? The age is already reduced for Palestinian kids in WB, who are under military law. This new law now applies to Israeli citizens and non-citizen residents.

And once more you refuse to accept that this is International law dictating what be done

 

[Phoenall]

Those poor Palestinian kids.
View attachment 74720

Those wonderful Israeli Jew kids.

Just like American kids then, as 80% of them own their own guns, so I have heard

This is from a miliorary show that has fare guns for the kids to play with, strange I cant see a bomb vest which the palestinian kids wear

 

[Phoenall]

Another victim of The Warrior Religion, which puts it into childrens' heads to commit violence against their fellow man in the name of Allah.

Any GOOD parent would have packed-up and moved their children away from such possibilities, ages ago.

Tragically, we now have another case of a wee little Neanderthal, led astray, busted for trying to hurt others, and now paying a grown-up price for his stupidity.

Oh, well... another gullible Allah-blinded statistic... life goes on...

And yet Jews think Yahweh gave them the land. What right do secular jews think they have to Palestine?

Your right a good parent would not live there with kids. Zionist only reap what they sow.

The Jews of Israel are, indeed, a mix of Believers and Nonbelivers, and within the domain of Belief, that, too, is varied and difficult to pin down.

Reduced to secular arguments... the Jews now own the land, lock, stock and barrel, while the Arabs are squatters on a continuously shrinking collection of postage stamps.

Any Muslim parent with an ounce of brains in either the West Bank or Gaza - and admittedly, they are few and far between, given their history - will pack up and leave.

It usually takes ethnic cleansing to force people to leave homes their families have occupied for centuries.

And as you have been shown they have not been there for centuries, most have arrived within living memory as shown by the records. Their leaders even admit that they are from the surrounding area and came to Palestine. Even Winston Churchill stood up in the houses of parliament and stated that the arab muslims were illegally entering Palestine in numbers that the "whole of world Jewry could not match"

 

[Coyote]

Saying there is something wrong with the justice system here is not saying it isn't wrong to stab kids.

Holding him without charge until he turns 14 sounds pretty wrong imo.
Trying a 12 year old as an adult is way wrong - they aren't adults, not in brain development, not in maturity- does that mean 12 year olds are then put in prisons with adults?
Applying it only to Palestinian kids but not Jewish kids? Nothing wrong with that? No wonder the Israeli justice system has had a lot criticism levied at it over it's treatment of Palestinian minors.

First, as you've already pointed out the accuracy of the reporting of the OP and its link, is clearly lacking, so right away we know we should make investigation to discover what is fact.

Agree, and it is apparently partial fact/partial distortion. The law applies within Israel. Palestinians outside Israel fall under Military Law.

Knesset advances bill to imprison terrorist minors

The legislative initiative gained traction after multiple terror attacks in recent months in which Palestinian teenagers stabbed Israelis.

“Today children are being used [in terror], and we see children in the Islamic State group cutting off people’s heads, and Palestinian terrorists aged 11, children inducted at the entrances to schools,” Berko said. “This law offers deterrence and prevention. This law will give greater security to the citizens of Israel, Jews and Arabs alike.”​

This is deceptive - he's deliberately attempting to draw parallels between IS and Palestinian children in order to stir up greater fear and support.

MK Osama Sa’adi of the Joint List criticized Berko for putting so much focus on terror in a law that also covers a range of other youth-related crimes.

“Anat Berko wants to take one section of the Youth Law,” which deals with minors in the context of criminal law, “and attach it to acts of terror,” Sa’adi said. “I didn’t hear Anat Berko getting worked up against cases of pedophiles, drug dealing, murder, and offenses like that.

“You aren’t asking to put [other young offenders] in prison, but when a Palestinian youngster throws a stone you want to put him in prison,” he said. “This is part of the continued incitement against the Palestinian public.”

...Israel’s penal code defines minors as people under 18 years of age; for the purpose of prosecution for very serious crimes, the minimum age at which they can be tried as adults is 14.​

This is where the OP distorting it's claim - the law and it's changes applies to all Israeli's and legal residents, the others are under military law. So the implication that there are two standards in the law is false (ie 18 for Jews and 14 for Pali's is a lie).

What remains to be seen is whether it is applied equitably, which I have doubts.

Also, we can check with RoccoR , but if you are going to argue that Palestine is "occupied" then Israeli law CAN NOT be applied to Palestinian citizens -- Israel is compelled to follow the existing law which is Jordanian.

Actually, that is not entirely true...the laws that govern Palestine are very muddy and unclear - and think it only applies to death penalty cases.

At this point, it is still considered Occupied Territory - until that changes, and the territorial claims are resolved that is what I refer it to.

The parallels are already there if you bother to look.

I do, and no - anyone with a grain of honesty would realize it is a false equivalency.

Their beliefs are the same, and come from the same source. Their method of enforcing their beliefs is the same and they have the same aims. So why aren't they the same thing ?

Their beliefs are not the same. One is far far more extreme and little more than a gang of power-hungry thugs - ISIS is about power, not religion.

 

[Lipush]

Fanger disappeared?

For the record, let us get something very straight.

That kid was not "almost beaten to death" by any "mob". There wass a street video cam capturing this whole incident. After stabbing the 13 year old and another man who happened to walk down the street, the kid and his cousin attempted on a killing spree. Ahmed and his cousin pounced on one of the cops with their knives, and one of them shot down Ahmed, who fell and bled on the sidewalk. Some civilians realized he was one of the two terrorists, and screamed and cursed the boy. One of the civilians tried to kick him, but was restrained by the police.

THAT was the whole story.

So "beaten" by "mob" is an outrageous lie.

 

[Lipush]

First, as you've already pointed out the accuracy of the reporting of the OP and its link, is clearly lacking, so right away we know we should make investigation to discover what is fact.

Agree, and it is apparently partial fact/partial distortion. The law applies within Israel. Palestinians outside Israel fall under Military Law.

Knesset advances bill to imprison terrorist minors

The legislative initiative gained traction after multiple terror attacks in recent months in which Palestinian teenagers stabbed Israelis.

“Today children are being used [in terror], and we see children in the Islamic State group cutting off people’s heads, and Palestinian terrorists aged 11, children inducted at the entrances to schools,” Berko said. “This law offers deterrence and prevention. This law will give greater security to the citizens of Israel, Jews and Arabs alike.”​

This is deceptive - he's deliberately attempting to draw parallels between IS and Palestinian children in order to stir up greater fear and support.

MK Osama Sa’adi of the Joint List criticized Berko for putting so much focus on terror in a law that also covers a range of other youth-related crimes.

“Anat Berko wants to take one section of the Youth Law,” which deals with minors in the context of criminal law, “and attach it to acts of terror,” Sa’adi said. “I didn’t hear Anat Berko getting worked up against cases of pedophiles, drug dealing, murder, and offenses like that.

“You aren’t asking to put [other young offenders] in prison, but when a Palestinian youngster throws a stone you want to put him in prison,” he said. “This is part of the continued incitement against the Palestinian public.”

...Israel’s penal code defines minors as people under 18 years of age; for the purpose of prosecution for very serious crimes, the minimum age at which they can be tried as adults is 14.​

This is where the OP distorting it's claim - the law and it's changes applies to all Israeli's and legal residents, the others are under military law. So the implication that there are two standards in the law is false (ie 18 for Jews and 14 for Pali's is a lie).

What remains to be seen is whether it is applied equitably, which I have doubts.

Also, we can check with RoccoR , but if you are going to argue that Palestine is "occupied" then Israeli law CAN NOT be applied to Palestinian citizens -- Israel is compelled to follow the existing law which is Jordanian.

Actually, that is not entirely true...the laws that govern Palestine are very muddy and unclear - and think it only applies to death penalty cases.

At this point, it is still considered Occupied Territory - until that changes, and the territorial claims are resolved that is what I refer it to.

The parallels are already there if you bother to look.

I do, and no - anyone with a grain of honesty would realize it is a false equivalency.

Their beliefs are the same, and come from the same source. Their method of enforcing their beliefs is the same and they have the same aims. So why aren't they the same thing ?

Their beliefs are not the same. One is far far more extreme and little more than a gang of power-hungry thugs - ISIS is about power, not religion.

ISIS is about fucked up people who didn't get laid in high school and now are killing others just to feel like the "cool kids".

 

[Coyote]

Fanger disappeared?

For the record, let us get something very straight.

That kid was not "almost beaten to death" by any "mob". There wass a street video cam capturing this whole incident. After stabbing the 13 year old and another man who happened to walk down the street, the kid and his cousin attempted on a killing spree. Ahmed and his cousin pounced on one of the cops with their knives, and one of them shot down Ahmed, who fell and bled on the sidewalk. Some civilians realized he was one of the two terrorists, and screamed and cursed the boy. One of the civilians tried to kick him, but was restrained by the police.

THAT was the whole story.

So "beaten" by "mob" is an outrageous lie.

I think the whole initial story was debunked and originally they claimed the kid was executed but clearly was not. Things like that do not help.

 

[Coyote]

Agree, and it is apparently partial fact/partial distortion. The law applies within Israel. Palestinians outside Israel fall under Military Law.

Knesset advances bill to imprison terrorist minors

The legislative initiative gained traction after multiple terror attacks in recent months in which Palestinian teenagers stabbed Israelis.

“Today children are being used [in terror], and we see children in the Islamic State group cutting off people’s heads, and Palestinian terrorists aged 11, children inducted at the entrances to schools,” Berko said. “This law offers deterrence and prevention. This law will give greater security to the citizens of Israel, Jews and Arabs alike.”​

This is deceptive - he's deliberately attempting to draw parallels between IS and Palestinian children in order to stir up greater fear and support.

MK Osama Sa’adi of the Joint List criticized Berko for putting so much focus on terror in a law that also covers a range of other youth-related crimes.

“Anat Berko wants to take one section of the Youth Law,” which deals with minors in the context of criminal law, “and attach it to acts of terror,” Sa’adi said. “I didn’t hear Anat Berko getting worked up against cases of pedophiles, drug dealing, murder, and offenses like that.

“You aren’t asking to put [other young offenders] in prison, but when a Palestinian youngster throws a stone you want to put him in prison,” he said. “This is part of the continued incitement against the Palestinian public.”

...Israel’s penal code defines minors as people under 18 years of age; for the purpose of prosecution for very serious crimes, the minimum age at which they can be tried as adults is 14.​

This is where the OP distorting it's claim - the law and it's changes applies to all Israeli's and legal residents, the others are under military law. So the implication that there are two standards in the law is false (ie 18 for Jews and 14 for Pali's is a lie).

What remains to be seen is whether it is applied equitably, which I have doubts.


Actually, that is not entirely true...the laws that govern Palestine are very muddy and unclear - and think it only applies to death penalty cases.

At this point, it is still considered Occupied Territory - until that changes, and the territorial claims are resolved that is what I refer it to.

The parallels are already there if you bother to look.

I do, and no - anyone with a grain of honesty would realize it is a false equivalency.

Their beliefs are the same, and come from the same source. Their method of enforcing their beliefs is the same and they have the same aims. So why aren't they the same thing ?

Their beliefs are not the same. One is far far more extreme and little more than a gang of power-hungry thugs - ISIS is about power, not religion.

ISIS is about fucked up people who didn't get laid in high school and now are killing others just to feel like the "cool kids".

Best description ever

 

[Lipush]

Fanger disappeared?

For the record, let us get something very straight.

That kid was not "almost beaten to death" by any "mob". There wass a street video cam capturing this whole incident. After stabbing the 13 year old and another man who happened to walk down the street, the kid and his cousin attempted on a killing spree. Ahmed and his cousin pounced on one of the cops with their knives, and one of them shot down Ahmed, who fell and bled on the sidewalk. Some civilians realized he was one of the two terrorists, and screamed and cursed the boy. One of the civilians tried to kick him, but was restrained by the police.

THAT was the whole story.

So "beaten" by "mob" is an outrageous lie.

I think the whole initial story was debunked and originally they claimed the kid was executed but clearly was not. Things like that do not help.

"They" meaning Mahmoud Abbas himself, and on the UN committee, no less. So our "peace partner" went there and said "Israel executes Palestinian children like Ahmed Manasara." And Netanyahu released the video of one of our doctors feeding him like a toddler on his hospital bed, and added cynically that he's one of the most "lively" executed children EVER.

Did Mahmoud Abbas not know that the boy was alive and breathing? Pfft, unlikely. Yet he chose to lie about it. Then when caught red-handed, they invented that nonsense about "angry mob". So, to cover up a lie, they tell another lie. Then said lie is posted in articles and is in thread titles like this one.

I don't get what's the big idea of lying about it, when you can clearly see the truth live, on video. But who needs fact when there is slander.

 

[Lipush]

So here is the video I found.

Ahmed Manasara is lying on the ground, bleeding (from a gunshot wound), the people are cursing and yelling at him, however, the civilians don't actually touch him, as the security forces hold them back.

It's a little disturbing, so be aware (and tell me while you're at it, where is that "angry mob", will you)

 

[SAYIT]

Another victim of The Warrior Religion, which puts it into childrens' heads to commit violence against their fellow man in the name of Allah.

Any GOOD parent would have packed-up and moved their children away from such possibilities, ages ago.

Tragically, we now have another case of a wee little Neanderthal, led astray, busted for trying to hurt others, and now paying a grown-up price for his stupidity.

Oh, well... another gullible Allah-blinded statistic... life goes on...

And yet Jews think Yahweh gave them the land. What right do secular jews think they have to Palestine?

Your right a good parent would not live there with kids. Zionist only reap what they sow.

The Jews of Israel are, indeed, a mix of Believers and Nonbelivers, and within the domain of Belief, that, too, is varied and difficult to pin down.

Reduced to secular arguments... the Jews now own the land, lock, stock and barrel, while the Arabs are squatters on a continuously shrinking collection of postage stamps.

Any Muslim parent with an ounce of brains in either the West Bank or Gaza - and admittedly, they are few and far between, given their history - will pack up and leave.

It usually takes ethnic cleansing to force people to leave homes their families have occupied for centuries.

Camel crap.

People emigrate for a myriad of reasons ... usually economic or war related (see: Greece, Syria). Your "reasoning" is a convenient yet typically bogus stab at Israel.

Why am I not surprised?

 

[SAYIT]

Fanger disappeared?

For the record, let us get something very straight.

That kid was not "almost beaten to death" by any "mob". There wass a street video cam capturing this whole incident. After stabbing the 13 year old and another man who happened to walk down the street, the kid and his cousin attempted on a killing spree. Ahmed and his cousin pounced on one of the cops with their knives, and one of them shot down Ahmed, who fell and bled on the sidewalk. Some civilians realized he was one of the two terrorists, and screamed and cursed the boy. One of the civilians tried to kick him, but was restrained by the police.

THAT was the whole story.

So "beaten" by "mob" is an outrageous lie.

I think the whole initial story was debunked and originally they claimed the kid was executed but clearly was not. Things like that do not help.

Yet they are quite common both here at the USMB I/P board and at yellow "media outlets" like Mintpress. Both enable the haters - and the vast majority of anti-Israel sentiment is just 21st Century anti-Semitism - to express their mindless hate - LIES - in the guise of anti-Zionism.

 

[Coyote]

Fanger disappeared?

For the record, let us get something very straight.

That kid was not "almost beaten to death" by any "mob". There wass a street video cam capturing this whole incident. After stabbing the 13 year old and another man who happened to walk down the street, the kid and his cousin attempted on a killing spree. Ahmed and his cousin pounced on one of the cops with their knives, and one of them shot down Ahmed, who fell and bled on the sidewalk. Some civilians realized he was one of the two terrorists, and screamed and cursed the boy. One of the civilians tried to kick him, but was restrained by the police.

THAT was the whole story.

So "beaten" by "mob" is an outrageous lie.

I think the whole initial story was debunked and originally they claimed the kid was executed but clearly was not. Things like that do not help.

Yet they are quite common both here at the USMB I/P board and at yellow "media outlets" like Mintpress. Both enable the haters - and the vast majority of anti-Israel sentiment is just 21st Century anti-Semitism - to express their mindless hate - LIES - in the guise of anti-Zionism.

In that regard - I see little difference between the "hate Muslims" bandwagon and the "hate Jews" bandwagon. Mintpress is balanced by BareNakedIslam. Haters have their vehicles and voices and lies.

It gets very demoralizing.

 

[Coyote]

Another victim of The Warrior Religion, which puts it into childrens' heads to commit violence against their fellow man in the name of Allah.

Any GOOD parent would have packed-up and moved their children away from such possibilities, ages ago.

Tragically, we now have another case of a wee little Neanderthal, led astray, busted for trying to hurt others, and now paying a grown-up price for his stupidity.

Oh, well... another gullible Allah-blinded statistic... life goes on...

And yet Jews think Yahweh gave them the land. What right do secular jews think they have to Palestine?

Your right a good parent would not live there with kids. Zionist only reap what they sow.

The Jews of Israel are, indeed, a mix of Believers and Nonbelivers, and within the domain of Belief, that, too, is varied and difficult to pin down.

Reduced to secular arguments... the Jews now own the land, lock, stock and barrel, while the Arabs are squatters on a continuously shrinking collection of postage stamps.

Any Muslim parent with an ounce of brains in either the West Bank or Gaza - and admittedly, they are few and far between, given their history - will pack up and leave.

It usually takes ethnic cleansing to force people to leave homes their families have occupied for centuries.

Camel crap.

People emigrate for a myriad of reasons ... usually economic or war related (see: Greece, Syria). Your "reasoning" is a convenient yet typically bogus stab at Israel.

Why am I not surprised?

Perhaps you should look at WHAT I RESPONDED TO. That would take a bit more effort though wouldn't it?

"Any Muslim parent with an ounce of brains in either the West Bank or Gaza - and admittedly, they are few and far between, given their history - will pack up and leave."

and if you think ethnic cleansing doesn't take place you're deluded.

 

[Kondor3]

Another victim of The Warrior Religion, which puts it into childrens' heads to commit violence against their fellow man in the name of Allah.

Any GOOD parent would have packed-up and moved their children away from such possibilities, ages ago.

Tragically, we now have another case of a wee little Neanderthal, led astray, busted for trying to hurt others, and now paying a grown-up price for his stupidity.

Oh, well... another gullible Allah-blinded statistic... life goes on...

And yet Jews think Yahweh gave them the land. What right do secular jews think they have to Palestine?

Your right a good parent would not live there with kids. Zionist only reap what they sow.

The Jews of Israel are, indeed, a mix of Believers and Nonbelivers, and within the domain of Belief, that, too, is varied and difficult to pin down.

Reduced to secular arguments... the Jews now own the land, lock, stock and barrel, while the Arabs are squatters on a continuously shrinking collection of postage stamps.

Any Muslim parent with an ounce of brains in either the West Bank or Gaza - and admittedly, they are few and far between, given their history - will pack up and leave.

It usually takes ethnic cleansing to force people to leave homes their families have occupied for centuries.

Camel crap.

People emigrate for a myriad of reasons ... usually economic or war related (see: Greece, Syria). Your "reasoning" is a convenient yet typically bogus stab at Israel.

Why am I not surprised?

Perhaps you should look at WHAT I RESPONDED TO. That would take a bit more effort though wouldn't it?

"Any Muslim parent with an ounce of brains in either the West Bank or Gaza - and admittedly, they are few and far between, given their history - will pack up and leave."

and if you think ethnic cleansing doesn't take place you're deluded.

That's not ethnic cleansing.

That's encouragement and a strong suggestion to leave voluntarily.

No point in the Palestinians hanging around a place where they're not wanted and have no future.

They could have lived in peaceful coexistence with the Jews of Israel.

They chose not to; choosing, instead, to make asymmetrical war upon the State of Israel.

The Palestinians lost... repeatedly... it's over.

The Palestinians have proven themselves untrustworthy mad dogs; unfit to live alongside more civilized folk.

Time for them to go; better to leave under your own power than to suffer the fools of Fatah and Hamas, and eventually be carried out feet first.

This is the protracted war they chose for themselves; this is what they risked in choosing that path; choices have consequences; they're paying the price for their foolishness now.

But... no need... all it takes is packing up, and leaving.

They'll fit right in, elsewhere, given their staggering diversity and lack of cohesion and lack of common culture and history.

Time for the Palestinians to go.

 

[Coyote]

Yup. Ethnic cleansing.

 

[Kondor3]

Yup. Ethnic cleansing.

Nope. Taking out the trash.

 

[montelatici]

Lovely people the Jews.

 

[Lipush]

Why thank you. We know we're awesome

 

[Phoenall]

First, as you've already pointed out the accuracy of the reporting of the OP and its link, is clearly lacking, so right away we know we should make investigation to discover what is fact.

Agree, and it is apparently partial fact/partial distortion. The law applies within Israel. Palestinians outside Israel fall under Military Law.

Knesset advances bill to imprison terrorist minors

The legislative initiative gained traction after multiple terror attacks in recent months in which Palestinian teenagers stabbed Israelis.

“Today children are being used [in terror], and we see children in the Islamic State group cutting off people’s heads, and Palestinian terrorists aged 11, children inducted at the entrances to schools,” Berko said. “This law offers deterrence and prevention. This law will give greater security to the citizens of Israel, Jews and Arabs alike.”​

This is deceptive - he's deliberately attempting to draw parallels between IS and Palestinian children in order to stir up greater fear and support.

MK Osama Sa’adi of the Joint List criticized Berko for putting so much focus on terror in a law that also covers a range of other youth-related crimes.

“Anat Berko wants to take one section of the Youth Law,” which deals with minors in the context of criminal law, “and attach it to acts of terror,” Sa’adi said. “I didn’t hear Anat Berko getting worked up against cases of pedophiles, drug dealing, murder, and offenses like that.

“You aren’t asking to put [other young offenders] in prison, but when a Palestinian youngster throws a stone you want to put him in prison,” he said. “This is part of the continued incitement against the Palestinian public.”

...Israel’s penal code defines minors as people under 18 years of age; for the purpose of prosecution for very serious crimes, the minimum age at which they can be tried as adults is 14.​

This is where the OP distorting it's claim - the law and it's changes applies to all Israeli's and legal residents, the others are under military law. So the implication that there are two standards in the law is false (ie 18 for Jews and 14 for Pali's is a lie).

What remains to be seen is whether it is applied equitably, which I have doubts.

Also, we can check with RoccoR , but if you are going to argue that Palestine is "occupied" then Israeli law CAN NOT be applied to Palestinian citizens -- Israel is compelled to follow the existing law which is Jordanian.

Actually, that is not entirely true...the laws that govern Palestine are very muddy and unclear - and think it only applies to death penalty cases.

At this point, it is still considered Occupied Territory - until that changes, and the territorial claims are resolved that is what I refer it to.

The parallels are already there if you bother to look.

I do, and no - anyone with a grain of honesty would realize it is a false equivalency.

Their beliefs are the same, and come from the same source. Their method of enforcing their beliefs is the same and they have the same aims. So why aren't they the same thing ?

Their beliefs are not the same. One is far far more extreme and little more than a gang of power-hungry thugs - ISIS is about power, not religion.

True hamas is more extreme in some respects. They are both about religious power and they are both gangs of thugs. Just look at the violence against their own people by hamas over the years, and see how many innocents they have killed in that time. they murdered 250 children shortly after rising to power because their fathers were fatah members.