Islam already lives near ground zero

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Yurt, Aug 19, 2010.

  1. Yurt
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    Yurt Gold Member

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    Islam already lives near ground zero

    WASHINGTON – A New York imam and his proposed mosque near ground zero are being demonized by political candidates — mostly Republicans — despite the fact that Islam is already very much a part of the World Trade Center neighborhood. And that Muslims pray inside the Pentagon, too, less than 80 feet from where terrorists attacked.

    FACT CHECK: Islam already lives near ground zero - Yahoo! News

    that is all.
     
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  2. martybegan
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    martybegan Gold Member

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    My opposition has nothing to do with praying, it has to do with perception. An existing mosque downtown is just that existing. It was there before, and is there after. As for the Pentagon, the room in question is a non denominational meeting room, built in the location of the plane impact. It does not have a political connotation to it as I see it.

    The issue with building whatever you what to call it (Mosque, community center, outreach center, etc) lets call it Cordoba house to make it easy, is the perception that can be had by the more militant versions of Islam, as well as the feeling of unease it creates in some of the people in New York.

    Islam, like Christianity in its political heyday made points of building places of worship in places of great military victory. Some, like the Hagia Sofia were actually converted from one to another after a political change, i.e. the fall of Constantinople. My primary concern is that the radicals, despite the best intentions of the Cordoba house founders will see this as a victory monument. My second is that, yes it is offensive to some of the survivors of the attack. Do I want the law to stop them? No. Do I want public opinion make them change thier mind? Hell yes.

    I read in interesting comparison in this article. http://minx.cc/?post=304843

    Scroll down to the comparison two Hiroshima, it is an interesting way of looking at it.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 19, 2010
  3. VaYank5150
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    VaYank5150 Gold Member

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    Huh????
     
  4. martybegan
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    martybegan Gold Member

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    That sentance is explained in the next two.
     
  5. Flopper
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    Flopper Gold Member

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    This is one of few intelligent posts I have read in opposition to building the mosque. I can see why some survivors of 911 would be offended, if they held all Muslims responsible. But for those that subscribe to the more generally excepted belief that Muslims throughout the world do not approve of the attack or condom terrorism, then there is no reason to be offended.

    I think it would be a real stretch of the imagination to see Cordoba House as a 911 victory monument. First of all it's 2 blocks from ground zero, longer if you walk. You can't even see ground zero from the site. And finally the new World Trade Center replacement will dwarf Cordoba House. As I understand it, there is a 911 memorial planned in Cordoba House for the victims of 911.

    I too would like to see the Muslims consider another site because this controversy is doing us no benefit in the Muslim world. But if they don't, Cordoba House will be a monument to the American Ideal, that anyone has the freedom to worship and build their house of worship where they choose.

     
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  6. martybegan
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    martybegan Gold Member

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    You don't see it as a victory monument because of your western outlook. I'll bet money that somewhere, some radical imam will use the mosque in the center as rallying point against "the infidel." At that point it isnt how the west percieves it, but how the people being preached to do.

    The backers of the cordoba center must realize this, and if they do, they are discounting this effect just as much as I know some future posters will. The end result will be the purported purpose of the Cordoba houses founders backfiring, causing greater radicalization of Islam, instead of moderation.
     
  7. Yurt
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    Yurt Gold Member

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    good lord....a victory monument would have to be on ground zero exactly....not two new york blocks away

    do you really believe this country can't handle the new muslim center? strangely it wasn't there prior to 9/11....yet....even without the new terrorist building.....9/11 happened....
     
  8. Flopper
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    Flopper Gold Member

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    How Cordoba House is perceived in the future, providing it actually get's built is anybody's guess. However because to the stiff opposition, there is no doubt how it is being perceived in Muslim countries.

    It's hardly headline news to observe that the United States has an abysmal image in the Arab and Muslim world, but the xenophobic and cynical posturing of the community center's opponents is a free gift to extremists who are eager to portray the United States as inherently hostile to the entire Islamic tradition. The controversy itself has probably taken a toll already; if the critics win, then we should hardly be surprised if moderates elsewhere begin to have even more doubts about America's ability to live up to the principles that we like to boast about to others.
     
  9. martybegan
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    martybegan Gold Member

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    Why does it have to be right on top of it? Again it is a question of perception. And my main concern isnt about opinion here, although it does matter, but the perception by extremists abroad. To them it isnt the example of freedom of religion that most westerns see it as, it is a sign of capitulation. That they are winning. It isnt the right perception, but that doesnt matter.
     
  10. martybegan
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    martybegan Gold Member

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    The reason for our poor image depends on the type of muslim you are talking about. Muslims in most countries are very socially conservative. Our percived xenophobia and cynisim probably bother them much less then our "cultrual trash." There is also, from what I can see, little outside reaction to this.

    And American base traditions ARE a huge threat to the more radical Islamic traditions, and are not very popular with the less radical, but still conservative branches. Islamic culture, starting in the 70's has been on a regressive trend with respect to secularism, and civil rights. The original Palestinian resistance was secular and socialist in nature, now Hamas is the main agitator. Iran rejected liberalism (the overall western one, not the "progressive" version we have now) with the Islamic revolution. Strong conservative Islamic parties are gaining in multiple middle eastern countries. Can the US be blamed for some of this? I don't know, but there is a trend, and we couldnt have done it all.
     

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