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You understand that people have can have multiple conversations can't you? That response about Jefferson was to another poster entirely. Don't be mad at me because you're losing in our conversation. Would you like me to embarrass you in another?No, you were discussing what a right is. Now your changing the subject to whether Jefferson was a hypocrite. Then you resort to name calling because you were called on it.
Well have you a country that has tried it and it worked?Most people see Libertarianism as a fringe ideology. Liberals see it as laissez-fair Capitalism gone amok. Conservatives see it as hedonistic and just one step away from godless anarchy.
But, what are the principles of Libertarianism that people seem to object to:
Individualism: Libertarians see the individual as the basic unit of social analysis. In principle, there are no groups that are responsible for actions or who have needs or rights beyond those of the individual. Libertarianism eschews identity politics.
Individual rights: Each individual has a right to be secure in their life, their liberty, and their property. These rights are granted by nature, not by government and the burden of explanation lies with anyone who proposed to interfere with those right.
Spontaneous Order: A certain amount of order in society if necessary for individuals to survive and prosper. Without order, anarchy leads to a state where the powerful will oppress the weak. However, order doesn’t have to be imposed from a central authority. Language, law, money, and markets all developed spontaneously, without the need for a central authority. Individual humans do not need to be led to achieve social cohesion. Social cohesion will assert when individuals are free to choose.
Rule of Law: As I stated before, Libertarians aren’t anarchists. In a Libertarian society, a person is free to pursue their own lives SO LONG as they respect the equal rights of others. Laws need to respect that principle, not be either arbitrary in nature, or used to create social conditioning.
Limited Government: To quote Lord Acton, “Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely”. Limiting both the size and scope of government into any area that doesn’t protect the rights of ALL citizens to liberty and for individuals to be secure in their life, their liberty, or their property should be un-Constitutional.
Free Markets: The most effective way to eliminate corruption in the marketplace is to remove the power that a government has to regulate that market. “When buying and selling are legislated, the first thing to be bought and sold will be legislators”. Preventing an individual from pursuing a business is just as evil as using a taxpayer’s money to shore up a failing business. Wealth can be spontaneously created by giving free reign to innovation and production. Only government can limit the creation of that wealth or use their power to divert that wealth towards others that didn’t participate in its production, but only were able to ingratiate themselves with the government.
Production is a Virtue: People who produce need to be secure to keep the fruits of their labor. No on has a right to the production of others. Thomas Paine wrote, “There are two distinct classes of men in the nation, those who pay taxes, and those who receive and live upon the taxes.” And Jefferson wrote, “We have more machinery of government than is necessary, too many parasites living on the labor of the industrious.”
Harmony of Interests: In a free society, the interests of most people don’t conflict. People will strive to achieve what they cannot obtain by other means. When we all seek to prosper by our own means, we mutually prosper. Adam Smith writes, “It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest. We address ourselves, not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own necessities but of their advantages.”
Peace: War does nothing to enhance the rights of the individual. War requires the sacrifice of the individual to enhance the interests of The State. Foreign interventionism, Imperialism by Force, or the idea of imposing a peace beyond our borders doesn’t belong in a Libertarian society.
So, which of those principles do people find so offensive? Which ones wouldn’t be beneficial to our society as a whole, and to the individuals who make up our society?
All you're doing is avoiding the issue.You understand that people have can have multiple conversations can't you? That response about Jefferson was to another poster entirely. Don't be mad at me because you're losing in our conversation. Would you like me to embarrass you in another?
Trying to avoid what issue? Do you have a response yet to my last reply in our original conversation?All you're doing is avoiding the issue.
Who are you trying to fool?
remind me what it was. Do you imaging I memorize every word you post?Trying to avoid what issue? Do you have a response yet to my last reply in our original conversation?
Oh I'm sorry. Is expecting you to be able follow a linear conversation asking too much of you?remind me what it was. Do you imaging I memorize every word you post?
Libertarians have always been losers. This post won't change that. Losers are losers are losers. The best you can accomplish is actually have a star power name run as a Libertarian but, since Libertarians are losers, the people with star power (such as Rand Paul) run as Republicans because they know if they ran as a Libertarian they would lose. Hence, Libertarians always have no names running on their ticket and voters aren't going to vote no names to office.Most people see Libertarianism as a fringe ideology. Liberals see it as laissez-fair Capitalism gone amok. Conservatives see it as hedonistic and just one step away from godless anarchy.
But, what are the principles of Libertarianism that people seem to object to:
Individualism: Libertarians see the individual as the basic unit of social analysis. In principle, there are no groups that are responsible for actions or who have needs or rights beyond those of the individual. Libertarianism eschews identity politics.
Individual rights: Each individual has a right to be secure in their life, their liberty, and their property. These rights are granted by nature, not by government and the burden of explanation lies with anyone who proposed to interfere with those right.
Spontaneous Order: A certain amount of order in society if necessary for individuals to survive and prosper. Without order, anarchy leads to a state where the powerful will oppress the weak. However, order doesn’t have to be imposed from a central authority. Language, law, money, and markets all developed spontaneously, without the need for a central authority. Individual humans do not need to be led to achieve social cohesion. Social cohesion will assert when individuals are free to choose.
Rule of Law: As I stated before, Libertarians aren’t anarchists. In a Libertarian society, a person is free to pursue their own lives SO LONG as they respect the equal rights of others. Laws need to respect that principle, not be either arbitrary in nature, or used to create social conditioning.
Limited Government: To quote Lord Acton, “Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely”. Limiting both the size and scope of government into any area that doesn’t protect the rights of ALL citizens to liberty and for individuals to be secure in their life, their liberty, or their property should be un-Constitutional.
Free Markets: The most effective way to eliminate corruption in the marketplace is to remove the power that a government has to regulate that market. “When buying and selling are legislated, the first thing to be bought and sold will be legislators”. Preventing an individual from pursuing a business is just as evil as using a taxpayer’s money to shore up a failing business. Wealth can be spontaneously created by giving free reign to innovation and production. Only government can limit the creation of that wealth or use their power to divert that wealth towards others that didn’t participate in its production, but only were able to ingratiate themselves with the government.
Production is a Virtue: People who produce need to be secure to keep the fruits of their labor. No on has a right to the production of others. Thomas Paine wrote, “There are two distinct classes of men in the nation, those who pay taxes, and those who receive and live upon the taxes.” And Jefferson wrote, “We have more machinery of government than is necessary, too many parasites living on the labor of the industrious.”
Harmony of Interests: In a free society, the interests of most people don’t conflict. People will strive to achieve what they cannot obtain by other means. When we all seek to prosper by our own means, we mutually prosper. Adam Smith writes, “It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest. We address ourselves, not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own necessities but of their advantages.”
Peace: War does nothing to enhance the rights of the individual. War requires the sacrifice of the individual to enhance the interests of The State. Foreign interventionism, Imperialism by Force, or the idea of imposing a peace beyond our borders doesn’t belong in a Libertarian society.
So, which of those principles do people find so offensive? Which ones wouldn’t be beneficial to our society as a whole, and to the individuals who make up our society?
No. Nature bestows NOTHING. We don't live in a violent caveman world, dumb fuck.
Society is a truce. We agree to compete in a non-violent way. THAT is what bestows property rights.
If you want to go back to caveman existence, I am fine with it. We will kill each and every last one of you commies and bathe in your filthy guts.
You're the only one who keeps mentioning feudalism for some reason. I'm just surprised you're not a lunatic like the rest of these clowns who think Nature has granted them rights.
If you really believed in the concept you'd be fine with LGBT, fine with it being taught to our children and fine with legal drugs. You'd be ok with porn on my t.v and in the library. You bastards aint liberterians. You are fundies that hate the very concept of freedom and liberty.
Well have you a country that has tried it and it worked?
NO!!! Why? because it doesn't...
Libertarianism just weakens society not strengthens it. It is about short term individualism over long term greater society...
It is not an accident that stronger the society the more prosperous it is...
What percentage of children died before age 5?Wrong.
All humans used to live in primitive societies at one time, without laws, and they worked not only fine, but better.
... uh, no.They also have strong corporatist leanings,
That's not corporatism.And basically want to completely deregulate business
OK - let's get into that "public good" business. I bet it means you want to use the state to force others to bend to your will. Amirite?even when the Actions of a business Harm public health or the public good.
yes, we all know that. Nevertheless you were making a different claim based on the same set of facts.You understand that people have can have multiple conversations can't you? That response about Jefferson was to another poster entirely. Don't be mad at me because you're losing in our conversation. Would you like me to embarrass you in another?
By public good I was referring to companies that do things like dump toxins and rivers. You know all the regulations that trump's ep a abolished after they took over.... uh, no.
That's not corporatism.
OK - let's get into that "public good" business. I bet it means you want to use the state to force others to bend to your will. Amirite?
