Is it really "illegal?"

Discussion in 'Immigration/Illegal Immigration' started by BuddyColt, May 13, 2012.

  1. BuddyColt
    Offline

    BuddyColt Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2012
    Messages:
    300
    Thanks Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    In a cave in Georgia
    Ratings:
    +10
    Is it really “Illegal?”

    Is coming into the United States really illegal? Should it be illegal? Are the anti – immigrant / National Socialists right or wrong?

    I’m going to do this in several parts because it is difficult and you should take your time, reading each post, thinking it over and responding only after meditating on the facts versus the myths widely believed.

    I’m starting this thread and there is nothing new, but it if it all appears at the beginning of a thread, you can see the circus atmosphere that the National Socialists will start because they cannot prevail over the facts. All you should do is concern yourself with is the facts. YOUR Liberty depends upon it.

    The first FACT is that there are no laws making it a crime to be in the United States without papers. The National Socialists will try and dispute it, but we will present irrefutable facts. The reason this is important is that if they are allowed to create bad precedents in interpreting the law, it will have a net negative impact on YOUR Rights and Liberties. So, let’s get right to it.

    The only statute the National Socialists can come up with is Title 8 USC 1325 to attempt to “prove” a supposed crime of illegal immigration (which absolutely does not exist.) My commentary on the statute is in red. It is fully quoted:

    8 U.S.C. § 1325 : US Code - Section 1325: Improper entry by alien

    Notice that this is a civil section of the law. It is not a criminal title. It is talking about an improper action, not an illegal one.

    (a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection;
    misrepresentation and concealment of facts
    Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States
    at any time or place other than as designated by immigration
    officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration
    officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United
    States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the
    willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first
    commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or
    imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent
    commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or
    imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

    Notice that under this section, several infractions / crimes are being discussed. Title 8 (Eight) does not impose a criminal penalty, but defers the criminal consequences to Title 18

    (b) Improper time or place; civil penalties
    Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to
    enter) the United States at a time or place other than as
    designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil
    penalty of -
    (1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or
    attempted entry); or

    Improper Entry is not a crime in Title 18; therefore, an immigrant cannot be charged with a crime for improper entry since none exists in Title 18 (Eighteen); however, there is the civil penalty of up to $250


    (2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of
    an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under
    this subsection.
    Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not
    in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be
    imposed.

    The civil penalties are different from the criminal charges and are treated separately. For instance, the criminal courts may fine a foreigner a total of one amount for lying to authorities and evasion (they may even suspend the criminal penalties) but that has no bearing on the civil penalties for improper entry (which consist of a fine of up to $250 and deportation)

    (c) Marriage fraud
    Any individual who knowingly enters into a marriage for the
    purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be
    imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or fined not more than
    $250,000, or both.
    (d) Immigration-related entrepreneurship fraud
    Any individual who knowingly establishes a commercial enterprise
    for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws
    shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, fined in accordance
    with title 18, or both. (End of Statute)

    YOUR Liberties depend upon a correct interpretation of the facts.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  2. BuddyColt
    Offline

    BuddyColt Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2012
    Messages:
    300
    Thanks Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    In a cave in Georgia
    Ratings:
    +10
    The power to interpret and enforce the immigration laws starts with the Dept. of Homeland (IN) Security and immigration officials that handle the cases (i.e. the Attorney General and the U.S. Attorneys.. Do they say that Title 8 USC 1325 improper entry is a crime or a civil violation?

    Janet Napolitano, the HEAD of the Dept. of Homeland (IN) Security is very specific. She states that “crossing the border is not a crime per se.”

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTqim4Se70k]Napolitano: Illegally Crossing Mexican Border's Not A Crime. All Terrorists Crossed Canadian Border - YouTube[/ame]

    A Title 8 USC 1325 infraction lands one in a civil procedure before an immigration official like the Attorney General. Here is an actual ruling by George W. Bush’s Attorney General in an actual case:

    “(2) Aliens in removal proceedings have no right to counsel, including Government-appointed
    counsel, under the Sixth Amendment of the Constitution because the Sixth Amendment
    applies only to criminal proceedings and removal proceedings are civil in nature.”

    http://www.justice.gov/eoir/vll/intdec/vol24/3632.pdf

    Note: We know that a reading of the law states that there can be crimes associated with Title 8 USC 1325; however, improper entry, which leads to deportation, is not a crime. A foreigner that lies to authorities or attempts to elude them can be tried for crimes under Title 18, but merely crossing the border is NOT a crime. It is a civil infraction of the law. Improper entry is not a crime under Title 18. It is a civil infraction of the law.

    Now, let us hear what a former U.S. Attorney said regarding this:

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDo-ZVK4dc0]Giuliani: Illegal Immigration Not A Crime And Should Not Be - YouTube[/ame]

    Notice, Rudy Giuliani says that not only is crossing the border not a crime, but it should not be.

    Gov. Chris Christie was once a U.S. Attorney working with immigration cases. Here was what he said:

    “Being in this country without proper documentation is not a crime. The whole phrase of 'illegal immigrant' connotes that the person, by just being here, is committing a crime.

    Don't let people make you believe that that's a crime that the U.S. Attorney's Office should be doing something about. It is not.”

    Now, let us ask a the LEO community:

    "Sorry, but need to chime in to clarify. Entry Without Inspection, Title 8 USC 1325, is NOT a felony. There is legistlation proposed to make it so, but not law. It is either a misdemeanor or a civil infraction depending on how you read the statute. Yes, please supply me the law that says it is a felony. I will need it, since I deal with it every day. "

    Citizens arrests for illegals [Archive] - Police Forums & Law Enforcement Forums @ Officer.com

    "Contrary to popular belief, so-called “Illegal Aliens”
    have the same civil rights as any American. This is a matter of law and is beyond debate.

    As partial evidence of the civil rights protection for aliens, the 14th Amendment contains the following clause:
    “No State shall …. deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”

    Note use of the word “person,” not citizen.

    The rules that prevent us from “rounding up” unauthorized aliens are the same rules that protect you and every other American from unwarranted search and seizure, unlawful detentions, and the “knock in the night” on your front door.

    We cannot solve the problems of illegal immigration with simplistic, “feel-good” responses.

    The mere unauthorized presence in the U.S. is a civil, not a criminal, violation of U.S. law1. The removal of aliens not authorized to be in the U.S. is an administrative process, not a criminal process.
    Local law enforcement in Okaloosa County arrests about 500 illegal aliens a year on state charges. These charges most often stem from traffic and document violations.

    State and local law enforcement officers have no legal authority to arrest people for the civil violation of being in the US without authorization."


    http://www.sheriff-okaloosa.org/Immi...0Imm Enf.pdf (While the link is dead, I copy and pasted it before they changed their website)

    So, here is what we have so far:

    1 -The law in question

    2 - The Dept. of Homeland (IN) Security’s interpretation of that law

    3 - A RULING by the highest immigration official in the United States telling us entry is not a crime

    The view of TWO Republicans that served as U.S. Attorneys in the field

    4 - The LEOs view of what the law means.

    I have not interjected my own opinions. I’m stating what the facts, separate and apart from any political opinion I have might be. I do, however, agree with the Okaloosa Sheriff’s Department’s assessment as to the consequences of attempting to treat foreigners like criminals. It DOES result in the denial of DUE PROCESS for people like you and I. Been There Done That Did Not Like It.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2012
  3. California Girl
    Offline

    California Girl BANNED

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2009
    Messages:
    50,337
    Thanks Received:
    8,960
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +8,965
    Yes, it is. And.. yes, it should be.

    Are you a complete idiot or just an occasional fool?
     
  4. BuddyColt
    Offline

    BuddyColt Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2012
    Messages:
    300
    Thanks Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    In a cave in Georgia
    Ratings:
    +10
    In 2003, in a case involving a militia group called Ranch Rescue, the members of Ranch Rescue attempted to detain some people trespassing over private property and come into the United States without papers. In short, they were charged with crimes; the property owner lost his ranch:

    Leiva v. Ranch Rescue | Southern Poverty Law Center

    Like it or not, the courts said that the immigrants had civil rights and, from what I can tell, the courts have apparently said that those civil rights trumped the property Rights of American land owners.

    Since that time, the anti – immigrant lobby has been able to con a lot of Americans into a race war against Hispanics with bad strategies – the SAME strategies that sent the Ranch Rescue members into prison. The anti – immigrant, National Socialists have proven that their campaign is based upon racism and hatred, NOT any genuine effort to restore the Republic and guarantee Liberty.

    The first self appointed Head Honcho that came along after Ranch Rescue was Jim Gilchrist. I told people within the “movement,” at that time, he was a racist and a Nazi. All he did was reintroduce David Duke’s Border Watch idea from 1977. Duke was an ex Nazi turned K.K.K. leader.

    Raciality.com - and Brutality: Best Racist Friends of Jim Gilchrist ( Minutemen Racists ) including Tom Tancredo and Steve Levy ( Long Island, New York )

    As some of you know, Rep. James Sensenbrenner is the man that introduced the National ID / REAL ID Act into Congress AND the so – called “Patriot Act” that nullified the Bill of Rights… and he was one of Jim Gilchrist’s friends!

    Gilchrist had a second in command by the name of Chris Simcox. Simcox was exposed as a Nazi as was his best friend, J.T. Ready J.T. Ready, as most of you know went on a rampage and killed his girlfriend, his own child, and two others before committing suicide.

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQ6owsJTCYI]Chris Simcox's Minutemen and Nazi " HOLY WAR " (JT Ready) - YouTube[/ame]

    J.T. Ready Gilbert Massacre: Listen to the Unedited 9-1-1 Recordings Here - Phoenix News - Valley Fever

    Simcox had a not too spotless background:

    U.S. Senate Hopeful Chris Simcox, aka, "The Little Prince," His Criminal Record, and the Other Baggage He Brings with Him - Phoenix News - Feathered Bastard

    Then there was another of these beaming paragons of human virtue, Shawna Forde (another friend of Gilchrist’s.) She was convicted of a very despicable murder:

    Shawna Forde death sentence: Ariz. anti-immigrant activist condemned to die for killing father, daughter - Crimesider - CBS News

    In Georgia, the Miltia of Georgia had an attempted coup. The anti – immigrants broke off with the elected leadership. ALL of those that went with the anti – immigrants ended up in jail, prison, or working as snitches for Uncle Scam… even after repeated warnings from yours truly:

    Waffle House Terrorists - Waffle House Terrorist Plot - Esquire

    Court hears Georgia terror suspects on tape | 11alive.com

    Darren Wesley Huff, Georgia Birther, Convicted Of Plot To Take Over Courthouse To Topple Obama

    BTW, I’d like to quote Huff from the article:


    “Huff himself testified, fighting back tears as he told jurors how hurt he was that "my government has called me a potential domestic terrorist."

    Look at that, he’s now crying after I spent YEARS warning him and the rest of that bunch the long term ramifications of calling people “illegal aliens” absent Due Process. You see, Huff was presumed guilty too… just as those foreigners HE judged absent Due Process.

    My opinion is their strategy sucks.

    My opinion is that any “movement” that attracts this inordinate number of killers, liars, and social misfits is probably not a very serious “movement” over the long haul. In J.T. Ready’s case, it was proven they can twist the arms of politicians, but like Russell Pearce proved, those politicians will throw them under the bus the first time it becomes convenient.

    The facts are the anti – immigrants are directly responsible for the so – called “Patriot Act,” the National ID / REAL ID Act, the end to the presumption of innocence, the crackdown on your Miranda Warning, and the proliferation of warrant less searches. The anti – immigrant / National Socialists have been instrumental in the assaults on private property and have added fodder for the anti – gun lobby in the future.

    They have lied to you and they have misrepresented themselves to you. For ten years they have dodged and ducked me when I’ve challenged them to a public debate – one on one. When they feel threatened, like on these discussion boards, they turn the topic into a freaking joke; they continue to try and prove disproven myths just to baffle you. The rest of what I have to say regarding them is at this link:

    Outcasts and Outlaws :: View topic - Enemies Among Us
     
  5. BuddyColt
    Offline

    BuddyColt Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2012
    Messages:
    300
    Thanks Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    In a cave in Georgia
    Ratings:
    +10
    You're the idiot around here. If you can't tell a fact from an opinion, you aren't smart enough to be allowed to vote much less offer any opinion on an adult topic. I only wished the hell you had let me finish before starting that chickenshit.
     
  6. Mr. H.
    Offline

    Mr. H. Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2009
    Messages:
    44,117
    Thanks Received:
    9,265
    Trophy Points:
    2,030
    Location:
    A warm place with no memory.
    Ratings:
    +15,394
    I don't think you can waltz into any country on this planet, set up camp, become a citizen by simple default, and instantaneously reap the benefits of that citizenship without in turn contributiing to society through some kind of productive effort.
     
  7. starcraftzzz
    Offline

    starcraftzzz Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2012
    Messages:
    2,263
    Thanks Received:
    120
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +120
    According to the GOP walking across a border is equal to killing someone
     
  8. BuddyColt
    Offline

    BuddyColt Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2012
    Messages:
    300
    Thanks Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    In a cave in Georgia
    Ratings:
    +10

    My case is proven. See how this dumbass tries to turn the topic into a freaking cartoon and then advocates turning America into a country equal to a socialist dictatorship.
     
  9. Mr. H.
    Offline

    Mr. H. Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2009
    Messages:
    44,117
    Thanks Received:
    9,265
    Trophy Points:
    2,030
    Location:
    A warm place with no memory.
    Ratings:
    +15,394
    Hoarders Without Borders.

    Lovely. Just lovely.
     
  10. BuddyColt
    Offline

    BuddyColt Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2012
    Messages:
    300
    Thanks Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    In a cave in Georgia
    Ratings:
    +10
    The whole point of their silly strategy is that they demand a felony consequence for what, in the most anti - immigrant reading of the law, would be a misdemeanor.

    The judges, the courts and the LEOs do not look at the law as being criminal NOR can you be charged for a crime according to the RULINGS of the court for the mere act of entering or being in the U.S. without papers.

    That's not my opinion. I worked in immigration law and that is the way it is interpreted and applied.

    It looks good to those who get off on this crap, but as Darren Huff learned: it ain't pretty when you are on the receiving end.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2012

Share This Page

Search tags for this page

content