Is it ok not to vote...

[YoursTruly]

You're already playing!

You've already been pushed from the plane!


You can't stop the world because you want to get off.

You have a choice of the parachute that will open 60% of the time or the one that will open 20%.

You don't have to choose...but then someone else is going to choose for you.

Trump didn't come through on 60% of his important promises. In fact, he may have come through on 1%.

The wall and who was going to pay for it.
R&R Obamacare
Getting us out of wars.
reversing the trade deficit with China
Paying down the national debt. He didn't even try to do that.
he didn't end the birth right citizenship.
FFS, he didn't even try to "lock her up."

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

We should have mandatory voting, but if we did MAGA would buy votes and ballot harvest like crazy.

 

[dblack]

We should have mandatory voting ...

How would that improve things?

 

[Missourian]

Not yet. We're still allowed to vote for someone else.

But we've established that person isn't going to win in 2024.

Again, both candidates are below my minimum threshold for the Presidency. What is your minimum?

My minimum is triage.

Of my choices of those running who have an opportunity to become President in 2025, I'm choosing the one who is going to do the most good and the least damage.

The pragmatic approach.

I'd rather my vote accomplish something good even if it isn't perfect.

If we stave off socialism for four more years, close the border, don't lose our rights to semi-auto rifles, and most importantly, step back from WWIII... I'll call that a win.

What will your vote accomplish?

 

[Rambunctious]

He didn't FIX anything in his 4 years. Why TF do you think he can fix it now? Because he says he can? He said he could in 2016, and didn't.

He didn't fix the economy. We did that.
He didn't fix oil productions. The oil companies did that, along with our help.

He turned the Obama economy around in 3 months... he had Muslim nations signing accords with Israel... there was peace in the world and he placed enterprise zones in inner cities and thus we had he lowest unemployment numbers in black and Hispanic communities in our modern day history... and we had a secure border...
So what the fuck are you talking about?...

 

[Missourian]

Trump didn't come through on 60% of his important promises. In fact, he may have come through on 1%.

The wall and who was going to pay for it.
R&R Obamacare
Getting us out of wars.
reversing the trade deficit with China
Paying down the national debt. He didn't even try to do that.
he didn't end the birth right citizenship.
FFS, he didn't even try to "lock her up."

He made progress on every one of those except paying down the debt...facing headwinds from the powers that be the entire time, was impeached twice, was investigated for a hoax for three years AND faces the first worldwide pandemic in a hundred years!

 

[dblack]

But we've established that person isn't going to win in 2024.

We really haven't. But even if you accept what the MSM tells you, even if you believe all the polls, it still doesn't justify voting for a bad candidate just because "all the other kids are doing it".

My minimum is triage.

Of my choices of those running who have an opportunity to become President in 2025, I'm choosing the one who is going to do the most good and the least damage.

But how far down will you follow that "logic"? Is there any point where you'll say "I don't care which one will do less damage, they're both horrible and I won't support either"? How bad does it have to get before you'll say "no"?

What will your vote accomplish?

It will accomplish the same thing your vote will. It will register my opinion on who should be President. The idea that a vote is a "waste" if your candidate doesn't win is ridiculous.

 

[Missourian]

We really haven't. But even if you accept what the MSM tells you, even if you believe all the polls, it still doesn't justify voting for a bad candidate just because "all the other kids are doing it".

But how far down will you follow that "logic"? Is there any point where you'll say "I don't care which one will do less damage, they're both horrible and I won't support either"? How bad does it have to get before you'll say "no"?

It will register my opinion on who should be President. The idea that a vote is a "waste" if your candidate doesn't win is ridiculous.

It's NOT ridiculous.

Push on a boulder all day long every day for a year. If you don't move it, you've accomplished nothing.

My vote has a 50/50 chance of accomplishing something.

Your vote has a 100% chance of accomplishing nothing.

If you're happy riding the train wherever it happens to go...letting others make the hard decisions and washing your hands of responsibility...well...some people are like that...more power to ya.

I want to have a hand on the wheel.

 

[dblack]

It's NOT ridiculous.

Push on a boulder all day long every day for a year. If you don't move it, you've accomplished nothing.

My vote has a 50/50 chance of accomplishing something.

How is electing a bad candidate accomplishing something?

Your vote has a 100% chance of accomplishing nothing.

It has a greater chance of accomplishing something than your vote does. If twenty percent of voters reject the two-party crap it WILL have an impact, a far bigger impact that twiddling lesser evils.

I'll ask again, how far down this drain will you go? Is there some point where you'd reject both parties, even if it means you don't get a "say" in which one wins?

 

[Missourian]

How is electing a bad candidate accomplishing something?

Just look at the Texas Border!

Trump has that shit damn near under control!

 

[dblack]

Just look at the Texas Border!

And? What did electing Trump resolve about the Texas Border?

 

[Missourian]

It has a greater chance of accomplishing something than your vote does. If twenty percent of voters reject the two-party crap it WILL have an impact, a far bigger impact that twiddling lesser evils.

You've been here 15 years.

How's that plan workin' out...

 

[Missourian]

And? What did electing Trump resolve about the Texas Border?

Border wall, remain in Mexico policy, the end of catch and release. Lowest illegal immigration in years.

Biden was forced to reverse those policies. And he did.

Even sold the wall materials at scrap prices.

 

[dblack]

You've been here 15 years.

How's that plan workin' out...

OK I guess. I sleep well at night. How's voting for evil working for you?

 

[Missourian]

OK I guess. I sleep well at night. How's voting for evil working for you?

And how close are you to 20%?

What amount of change in those voting third party have you achieved in 15 years?

One percent?

At that rate you'll achieve your goal in what...60 presidential elections?

Don't you think it might be a tad too late by then?

But at least you can say you're no responsible for any of it.

Congratulation.

I sleep great.

Trump has done more to expose the biased media, the establishment and the uniparty than anyone in my lifetime.

The masks are off... Finally!

 

[Missourian]

OK I guess. I sleep well at night. How's voting for evil working for you?

You keep saying that.

What is Trump doing that is evil?

America first?

Promoting peace?

Exposing bias and corruption in the establishment media and political infrastructure?

Trying to move manufacturing back to the US?

Killing terrible trade agreements?

Where is this evil?

Be specific?

 

[BackAgain]

BS. Voting for those who aren't going to allow you freedom and liberty, is voting for someone to rule over you.

I cannot speak for you. But my liberty and freedom already exists and isn’t dependent on which candidate prevails.

Nobody rules over me or any of us (unless you’re a craven little snot who accepts such shit from such government officials).

To tax you.

Yes. Our government does have the say on taxation, as bounded by the Constitution.

To stop you from exercising your rights.

Nope. That’s just an illusion.

From living your personal and business life without government intrusion and regulation.

That’s not a right. And most people don’t object to valid regulations made in the right way by the legislature or by those to whom regulatory authority has been baldly granted.

Because none of the democrats or RINO's is going to restore the freedoms and liberties we've lost, even just since 9/11.

We haven’t lost any rights. I concede that they sometimes seek to impose restrictions on rights. Such efforts are legally bullshit, however and are subject to challenge in court.

FFS, Trump assaulted our 2A.

No. He didn’t.

And supports red flag laws.

So what? Personally, provided that it’s subject to meaningful legal review set to a properly high standard, I have no particular problem with a red flag law that might prevent some future school shooter from legally obtaining a firearm.

He reauthorized the government to spy on Americans without a warrant.

As Obama had done to Trump?

He supports eminent domain.

So does the Constitution.

He supports the provisions in the Patriot act that allows the federal government to come onto our property and search without a warrant or probably cause.

I believe you overstate the problem. But let me surprise you. There are situations which already allow for cops to bypass the need for a warrant before a search.
For good example: say a kidnapped child is being held but doesn’t have her necessary life saving medication. If the cops don’t find her and free her swiftly, she is going to die.

A warrantless entry into the suspect’s home (where some evidence suggests the victim is being held) is then made by the police. Girl is saved. All is well. And the prosecution of the suspect isn’t in need of the suppression of any evidence. The scenario is already an emergency (exigency) exception to the warrant requirement.

If it comes down to a scenario where the U.S. government has intelligence that some radical Islamist shitbags are about to set off a nuke in an American city, I agree with the Patriot act if it allows a search and seizure without probable cause. Once again, our Constitution was never intended to be a suicide pact.

And just as bad as those things, he help destroy our economic liberties with all the money he spent, that created a huge inflation spike in 2021.

All of what you’re posting is nothing more than a screed against Trump. Go campaign for an alternative is you want. Ask others to not vote for him. It’s all good. You're allowed to dislike the candidate.

You’re simply not mocking any point here.

 

[dblack]

And how close are you to 20%?

Beats me. I know we'll be closer to that goal if I vote third party. And further away if I don't. But let's do that math.

Approximately 160 million people voted in the last election. 20% of that would 32 million votes. So the impact of my vote, toward accomplishing my goal, would be 1/32,000,000 = 0.000003125%.

Let's say you'd need 70 million votes to get Trump elected. The impact of your vote, toward accomplishing your goal, would be 1/70,000,000 = 0.000001429%.

The impact of your vote is less than half of mine.

What amount of change in those voting third party have you achieved in 15 years?

One percent?

At that rate you'll achieve your goal in what...60 presidential elections?

We won't achieve much of anything if voters don't wake up. But I'm not going back to sleep.

Don't you think it might be a tad too late by then?

Too late for what?

Trump has done more to expose the biased media, the establishment and the uniparty than anyone in my lifetime.

The masks are off... Finally!

I think that's what it comes down to. You like Trump, but don't want to admit it. Why?

 

[Missourian]

Beats me. I know we'll be closer to that goal if I vote third party. And further away if I don't. But let's do that math.

Approximately 160 million people voted in the last election. 20% of that would 32 million votes. So the impact of my vote, toward accomplishing my goal, would be 1/32,000,000 = 0.000003125%.

Let's say you'd need 70 million votes to get Trump elected. The impact of your vote, toward accomplishing your goal, would be 1/70,000,000 = 0.000001429%.

The impact of your vote is less than half of mine.


We won't achieve much of anything if voters don't wake up. But I'm not going back to sleep.

Too late for what?

I think that's what it comes down to. You like Trump, but don't want to admit it. Why?

I thought you knew I was one of Trump's biggest supporters.

But I guess I don't post very much anymore.

32,000 posts in 15 years.

 

[dblack]

You keep saying that.

What is Trump doing that is evil?

The same thing Biden is doing. Splitting the country in two for political gain. Among many, many other things.

America first?

Promoting peace?

Exposing bias and corruption in the establishment media and political infrastructure?

Trying to move manufacturing back to the US?

Killing terrible trade agreements?

Where is this evil?

If you don't think Trump is a bad, then we're having the wrong conversation. As I've said, if you like him, vote for him. I'll respect your opinion, even if I vehemently disagree. I'm trying to reach the people who know he sucks but are letting themselves be conned into voting for him anyway.