Is Illegal Immigration a paradox?

Discussion in 'Immigration/Illegal Immigration' started by Gary, Feb 25, 2009.

  1. Gary
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    Gary Rookie

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    An employer hires an illegal immigrant with the intent to cut costs and increase profits.

    As a result of this action a percentage of the illegal immigrants pay leaves this country to go to the illegal immigrants country, and a percentage of that pay never enters the US tax system. As well as the implication that the physical presents of the illegal immigrant in this country places a drain on healthcare, infrastructure support, and other things that tax dollars fund .

    Does not that loss of income from our economy then ultimately effect that employer in a negative way?

    Does the employer still ultimately gain over the long term?

    Does this cause the economy to contract and the employer just keep paying the illegal immigrant less and less to compensate for the loss of revenue from their business?

    Instead, if the employer hires a legal employee, and all that employees pay remains in this country, would that not help support the economy?

    If the economy remains stable, would that not tend to improve the chances for long term survival of the employers business?

    I propose that illegal immigration provides employers with only a short term gain, and a long term net loss.

    The impetus for the employer to hire the illegal immigrant is the short term gain and a lack of ability to foresee the long term consequences.

    Competition between businesses is the primary causal effect that initiates the hiring of illegal immigrants. For once one employer effectually cuts the cost of service/product because of the hiring of illegal immigrants, the other businesses must follow suit in order to compete.

    I also submit that the protection of the economy from unfair competition was one of the primary intentions for the creation of immigration law in the first place.
     
  2. Mad Scientist
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    Mad Scientist Deplorable Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    I'd be ok with illegals if US citizens didn't have to any pay state or federal taxes. Until then I expect the Justice System that I pay for to do it's job by punishing the employers and deporting all the illegals.
     
  3. SW2SILVERQUASI
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    SW2SILVERQUASI BANNED

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    It's an Oxymoron, but I digress. It's jolly good fun to debate this issue here as much as it is to do nothing about it or just capitulate and/or look the other way and pretend nothing is wrong. Or worse, help them or hire illegals and then moralize it all away. Say it's good for mom and apple pie, wrap your self up in that " ITS GOOD FOR THE ECONOMY" dodge, or, then you can go the other way, then say it's good for diversity. Never mind the economy is collapsing because of such short sighted shit. Or that diversity is becoming an excuse not to learn the host culture. Yes, let's ignore that. It's something, alright.
     
  4. roryp
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    roryp Rookie

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    With the recent events surrounding immigration coming to the fore more recently, these are going to be interesting times for the Obama administration. I think this will be the next big issue requiring resolution.
     
  5. RetiredGySgt
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    RetiredGySgt Platinum Member

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    Not likely, NO ONE in either national party wants to do shit about illegals. And now that the Dems are in control they do not even have to pay lip services to the idea, that was a republican base thing.

    Wanna bet one of the cuts Obama has found is to the enforcement division that finds and charges employers with this crime?
     
  6. michiganFats
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    michiganFats BANNED

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    gary, I agree. If domestic business is paying out money that doesn't stay in the area, the local economy will suffer. We're seeing that play out right now, and it's not limited to just the situation with illegals.
     
  7. editec
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    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

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    Actually your fine analysis of the paradox of illegal immigrants taking jobs in the USA is exactly the same pardox of FREE trade.

    In the short run, for SOME individuals, it is a boon.

    But for the society overall, it is a cancer.
     
  8. Terral
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    Terral Terral Corp CEO

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    Hi Gary:

    I am new too. :0)

    No. There is no such thing as an ‘illegal immigrant,’ which is little more than an Open Border Lobby buzzword intended to give Illegal Alien Foreign Nationals a cleaner image. The ‘immigrants’ come into the USA ‘legally’ through the front door, but the Illegal Alien Foreign Nationals are citizens of other countries coming here in the middle of the night through the back door to steal American ‘identities’ and JOBS. The U.S. employer really has no choice but to hire as many Illegal Alien Foreign Nationals as humanly possible, because that is the only way he ‘can’ compete with everyone else doing the same thing in the local job market. The expensive U.S. workers must be eliminated from the equation in order to lower operating costs to remain competitive where “Lawlessness” is par for the course. Many American workers holding onto jobs are paid part of their income in checks, and a large percentage in cash, to lower the overhead cost and make the unscrupulous U.S. employer more competitive in the local job market.

    Yes. You are hitting upon the focus of the Open Border Lobby Plan to destroy the U.S. Economy by the destruction of the American Middle Class through a multifaceted attack that includes “Outsourcing of JOBS,” the “overuse of 23 Guest Worker Programs,” and ‘the importation of as many Illegal Alien Foreign Nationals as humanly possible.’ Displaced U.S. workers cannot afford to make house payments and cannot afford to pay their property taxes, which leads to record mortgage foreclosures and budget deficits currently killing the local economies. Nevada, California and Florida lead the way in mortgage foreclosures, because those states have the highest concentration of Illegal Alien Foreign Nationals in the USA today. American workers forced to compete with 10 to 20 Illegal Alien Foreign Nationals living in one house will eventually be ‘displaced’ from JOBS, until they are forced to go and ‘displace’ another American from his job in an insidious displacement cycle that runs rampant through the local job market where wages are depressed and workers are systematically squeezed out of their traditional job vocations.

    Yes. All of the employers in the local job markets are racing to the bottom, until eventually the ‘consumers’ of their goods and services become ‘displaced’ and the lower rungs of the socioeconomic pyramid IMPLODE. The first U.S. workers to suffer the implosion process are the masons and their tenders, carpenters and their helpers, drywallers, stucco workers, painters, roofers and everyone working with their hands at the base of the economic pyramid. Then the destruction of the ‘consumer base’ begins to see ‘service sector’ jobs go away, until the IMPLOSION process begins cycling up the economic pyramid to initiate the ‘Global Collapse’ of the entire Economic System. You cannot place blame upon the local employer, because the President and Congress refuse to ‘enforce’ the provisions of the “Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986” (not allowed to post links . . .), because he is grasping at straws in order to try and remain competitive within the Lawless Environment.

    The unscrupulous employer stays in business longer than his ‘law-abiding’ counterpart forced out of the local job market by escalating costs associated with hiring expensive U.S. workers.

    Yes. Each time you hear the liars on the television talk about the economy ‘contracting,’ then in reality they are describing an “IMPLODING” economy part of an intentional and orchestrated Economic Collapse. The New World Order cronies must destroy the current economic system in order to ‘then’ offer everyone the “New Deal,” as their “Messiah” coming to save the day. The employers in the local job markets are mere pawns in a much larger New World Order Game where the same Inside-job bad guys who pulled off 9/11 (ttp://terral-911.blogspot.com/ = 9/11 Was An Inside Job = my blog) are also orchestrating the current Economic/Mortgage/Credit/Financial Crisis/Collapse.

    Your employer hiring expensive U.S. workers cannot compete with his unscrupulous counterparts cooking the books by hiring as many Illegal Alien Foreign Nationals as humanly possible. Each new batch of Illegals come in to ‘displace’ other Illegals by lowering their price to undercut the competition. These Illegals can continue lowering the price, because they live 10 and 20 in one house with some sleeping in sleeping bags in the garage and outside on the porch. :0) Right now it is ‘every man for himself’ and the employers have a 12 to 20 Million-man Illegal Alien Foreign National Labor Pool at their disposal, so the ‘legal’ U.S. worker is left outside in the cold . . .

    No; not in a Lawless Environment where the “Rule of Law” has been thrown out the window and nobody is ‘enforcing’ the Immigration/Employment laws already on the books! Let’s make this very simple: A homeowner gets three bids to replace his roof. One contractor is hiring all Illegal Alien Foreign Nationals working for 5 to 8 dollars per hour and the others are using real U.S. roofers making between 15 and 25 dollars per hour. Who gets the job? :0) Eventually the legitimate roofing contractors must ‘replace’ their U.S. workers with cheap illegal workers that are running around EVERYWHERE, OR go out of business . . .

    You are pretending that someone is actually enforcing the Immigration/Employment laws, when everyone from the President to Congress down to the local building inspector is looking the other way and allowing U.S. workers to be ‘displaced’ at record pace. Eventually the local consumer base is depleted of resources and the ‘legal’ citizens face foreclosure, and the local tax base goes away, and the local economy implodes and the momentum works to assist the implosion of the entire global economy. You have been watching the U.S. Economy implode gradually since the fourth quarter of 2007, as the Dow Jones, S&P and Nasdaq clearly demonstrate. The Panic of 2008 will be transformed into the Implosion of 2009, as the components of the TARP are finally implemented and the bottom of the housing market is kicked out and house values plummet to destroy the values of all the mortgage-backed security portfolios of all the banks.

    We agree. However, until somebody begins actually ‘enforcing’ the Rule of Law (never going to happen), then the U.S. employer simply has no choice but to hire as many Illegal Alien Foreign Nationals as he can in order to remain competitive. Just one white guy can hire 50 Illegal Alien Foreign Nationals and put the local contractors out of business, which continues to happen every day here in the Fascist State of CanAmeriMexico. :0)

    Yes. That is what happens when nobody ‘enforces’ the Rule of Law. If the laws against robbing banks were not enforced, then more and more people would be entering banks to walk out with cash ‘illegally.’ The fact is that the big banks have a valid complaint against the Federal and local governments for refusing to ‘enforce’ the Immigration/Employment laws, which finds their mortgagees unable to compete in the local job markets. The banks award mortgages to legal U.S. workers, as if the President and Congress ‘are’ going to DO THEIR JOBS of protecting their constituency, when in reality our do-nothing Congress is allowing millions and millions and millions of Illegal Alien Foreign Nationals to run around loose EVERYWHERE. The President (Bush and now Obama) and Congress are working with the Open Borders Lobby to destroy this once-great nation very much on purpose ‘and’ We The People are like stupid frogs sitting in warm water coming to a BOIL with fat happy faces to boot! :0)

    Of course. However, you have 41,000 Washington Lobbyists bribing U.S. Congressmen and Senators with billions and billions of dollars every year ‘and’ We The People allow the corruption to escalate, which means the coming Economic Collapse is exactly what America deserves. You cannot allow up to 20 Million Illegal Alien Foreign Nationals to run around inside your country ‘displacing’ citizens from identities and JOBS, for years and years and years, without suffering the consequences of Lawlessness running rampant upon the land. Our children see this Lawlessness and begin to pick and choose which laws they would rather obey, and which ones they would rather ignore, until the whole bunch of lemmings simply charge over the cliff . . .

    GL,

    Terral
     
  9. roryp
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    roryp Rookie

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    If this is the case, and the rate of illegal immigration and workers being hired are increasing exponentially, how much longer till US citizens look for opportunities outside the country and end up experiencing a "brain Drain" like other countries.
     

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