Is education a right or a privilege?

[DamnYankee]

Fuckin'-A!!

Never thought I'd agree with neurosport!!

blind squirrel, meet the acorn!

Hmm... Don't you think that people find, and then settle on, the information that "suits" them and disregard the rest, for the most part? Isn't that what any number of people do here? How would you expect that to be different in terms of educating children?

 

[Epsilon Delta]

You're an idiot. Please read a dictionary.

Hey, why don't you... go fuck yourself?

= )

 

[Sarah G]

Fuckin'-A!!

Never thought I'd agree with neurosport!!

blind squirrel, meet the acorn!

I was just thinking about that saying at work the other day..

 

[Sarah G]

Education is a right in this country. We can at least give everyone the advantage of learning the basics and knowing how to move forward in the world as we get older and need to fend for ourselves. There are circumstances that can stand in the way of parents educating us. They aren't equipped or capable, they have illnesses, they're substance abusers, etc..

Even getting higher education these days is more necessary to compete and should be something we can expect to be available.

 

[neurosport]

Fuckin'-A!!

Never thought I'd agree with neurosport!!

blind squirrel, meet the acorn!

Hmm... Don't you think that people find, and then settle on, the information that "suits" them and disregard the rest, for the most part? Isn't that what any number of people do here? How would you expect that to be different in terms of educating children?

ok stop that !

that's like being smart and shit - that's my job.

you go back to the moronic partisan myopic reasoning that you people excel at.

 

[DamnYankee]

Fuckin'-A!!

Never thought I'd agree with neurosport!!

blind squirrel, meet the acorn!

Hmm... Don't you think that people find, and then settle on, the information that "suits" them and disregard the rest, for the most part? Isn't that what any number of people do here? How would you expect that to be different in terms of educating children?

ok stop that !

that's like being smart and shit - that's my job.

you go back to the moronic partisan myopic reasoning that you people excel at.

Had to break up the mutual admiration society

 

[editec]

So we have the right to bear arms, but not the right to an education?

Interesting value system we have.

 

[DamnYankee]

Education is a right in this country. We can at least give everyone the advantage of learning the basics and knowing how to move forward in the world as we get older and need to fend for ourselves. There are circumstances that can stand in the way of parents educating us. They aren't equipped or capable, they have illnesses, they're substance abusers, etc..

Even getting higher education these days is more necessary to compete and should be something we can expect to be available.

How about we stick with unequipped and incapable? On the other hand, there are educators that ill-equipped and incapable, not to mention the ones that just don't give a damn any more, yet there seems to be little effort to remove them from the system. Why do you suppose that is?

 

[neurosport]

people find, and then settle on, the information that "suits" them and disregard the rest

in any case that's EXACTLY how it works.

that's why our government can get away with mining up WTC7, pulling it in front of everybody and saying oh it collapsed due to a fire.

the information that our government cares about us even less than we care about Iraqis does not "suit" most people so they disregard it.

information presented by science doesn't "suit" religious people so they disregard that.

information that there were no WMDs in Iraq didn't "suit" Bush so he disregarded that.

yep, that's definitely how things work.

most people need to think positively about their government that's why most people will never see the truth.

we think positively about our government and negatively about others. we think positively about our parents and negatively about other people ( even though they're somebody's parents ).

human beings are fundamentally irrational. the few people who are rational ( Plato, Galileo etc ) have been traditionally murdered throughout history - that is the extent to which human beings fear reason. I don't remember who said it but a man fears reason more than death itself - and its true.

I happen to be rational. That's why i encounter so much friction with you lemmings.

 

[code1211]

au contraire - the reason why I am asking this is........

If healthcare is getting nationalized by the Obama administration and that's a right - is education next? FREE college education for ALL American citizens? I'm not talking about going to Yale or Columbia for free... I'm talking about a university or community college's education given to you for free. Many people don't go to college because they can't afford it - if education is free, more people would go to college and get better educated and thus we would have smarter workers who would earn more money and give back higher tax revenue to the government.

So if healthcare is a right and education is a right - is free education next upon Obama's list?

In one of his myriad musings on every topic that crosses every mind of every speechwriter who ever wrote, Obama did say that the first year of post high school education, be it college or trade school, should be be publicly paid.

There is no topic and no idea that Obama has not thrown at the wall to see what would stick.

It's impossible to determine what he wants to do because he speaks in such broad generalities and never gets down to the brass tacks. He wants to make the world a better place and if you have a particular idea that fits into this general goal, he's for that, too. He will not prioritize any of his ideas or give specifics on what he wants to spend on them or what he intends to cut or where he intends to get the money in a comprehensive, all in one, presentation of his "vision".

He is a man with a dream. I'd prefer a man with a plan. Dreams are too easily forgotten.

 

[alan1]

Is education a right or a privilege?

K-12 education is a benefit provided by our society.
A society that (for the most part) believes that at least that much education is worth paying for.
Any education beyond 12th grade is not a right, nor a privilege, but it is available to anybody that is willing to pay for it.

 

[alan1]

In a democratic republic an informed citizenry is absolutely essantial.

That's exactly why the neo-cn bastards have basically declared war on education.

Their goal is the end of the Republic and all vestages of the democratic aspects of it.

And they're winning, too, much thanks to their many citizen tools.

Ohh look the man that wanted the US Government to seize every single aspect of medical care, treatment or any related business and Nationalize it so they could "control" costs.

You are a LYING piece of shit in this case. No one advocates the elimination of Education, RETARD, they want the Federal Government OUT.

I don't get it - what the fuck is the difference if you have a state gov't involved or if you have a federal gov't involved? I don't get this whole states this states that.

All primary education (k-12) should be kept as local as possible. The educational needs of a NY inner city kid are entirely different than the needs of a kid in a FL fishing town are entirely different than a CA farming community. The federal government can't determine those needs worth a damn. Hell, most states can't either.

 

[alan1]

After that, I think that our society should not make college free, but should make it acheivable for anyone who wants to work for it.

What do you mean "work for it?" How does an 18 year old kid who's never had a job in his life "work for something" that's too expensive for their parents to afford and too expensive for them to afford?

College should not only be available for the elite, but for the intelligent.

College should be available for everyone - not just the elite or the intelligent. Can you imagine if college education, from the first year all the way through receiving a doctorate was free? Our society, overall would be much more intelligent.

College is available for anybody that wants it.
My sister put herself through college.
I put myself through college (with a little help from the GI bill, as I joined the army strictly for those educational benefits).
My brother put himself through college (sort of, he dropped out when he was one semester away from an aerospace engineering degree because he decided he didn't want to be an aerospace engineer).

If you think people can't "afford" to pay their own way through college, you are completely wrong. People can and people do. It's hard to work and go to school at the same time, I know that because I lived it, but i also did it.

 

[Annie]

After that, I think that our society should not make college free, but should make it acheivable for anyone who wants to work for it.

What do you mean "work for it?" How does an 18 year old kid who's never had a job in his life "work for something" that's too expensive for their parents to afford and too expensive for them to afford?

College should not only be available for the elite, but for the intelligent.

College should be available for everyone - not just the elite or the intelligent. Can you imagine if college education, from the first year all the way through receiving a doctorate was free? Our society, overall would be much more intelligent.

College is available for anybody that wants it.
My sister put herself through college.
I put myself through college (with a little help from the GI bill, as I joined the army strictly for those educational benefits).
My brother put himself through college (sort of, he dropped out when he was one semester away from an aerospace engineering degree because he decided he didn't want to be an aerospace engineer).

If you think people can't "afford" to pay their own way through college, you are completely wrong. People can and people do. It's hard to work and go to school at the same time, I know that because I lived it, but i also did it.

Exactly my earlier point. Not everyone is capable or interested in college. Many now discussing giving all a free university education are the same that complain about all the jobs being outsourced and bemoan the loss of manufacturing jobs. Seems most college grads think they should be sitting in an office, imagine that.

Then there is the problem of those assuming a college education would make anyone 'more intelligent.' More educated? Perhaps. Intelligent, no. Anyone who's read some of the college papers posted online have an idea of how today's 'college' education is often less than a high school education 60 years ago. AP courses probably come closest to what used to be considered high school curriculum.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a strong proponent of education for any that are willing to do the work and pay the price, both of which indicate the desire to reach a goal. When everyone can do it, the meaning, (standards), have changed.

 

[alan1]

It means hjmick is an idiot

He's not the only one who's claiming the compelled attendance and financing of gubmint schooling is a "right".

Try to stay on topic.

No shit, compelled attendance.
Let me tell you my (and my eldest daughter's) story about compelled attendance of high school.
My eldest realized that high school was a waste of her time. At 16 she wanted to get her GED, quit school and start college. I was all for it, but here is how the state forces kids to stay in crappy public schools. Here in NC, if you aren't actively attending high school, you are not allowed a drivers license until you are 18 (Or in possession of a valid diploma, GED's don't count). Now how the hell is she supposed to get back and forth to work and college if the state wont let her drive? She was forced by the state to stay in school for 2 more years instead of starting college early. That's just bullshit.

 

[RodISHI]

AP courses probably come closest to what used to be considered high school curriculum.

Why is that?

Don't get me wrong, I'm a strong proponent of education for any that are willing to do the work and pay the price, both of which indicate the desire to reach a goal. When everyone can do it, the meaning, (standards), have changed.

Learning certain skills to operate a business, do a particular job or acquire a particular licenses do not always have to be done in a college setting. Sometimes short courses are a more efficient tool to learn depending on your abilities to study.

With the ability to self study one can pass many state licensing tests in many of the states. Real Estate, contracting and insurance licensing comes to mind. In certain states if one can even pass the bar exam they can get a license to practice law.

Rod taught himself how to build, repair and trouble shoot transmissions years ago. A friend gave him his books and he started in. He had people requesting his services for years and years after he closed his shop.

About ten years ago I wanted to learn how to make my own molds. I could not find anyone locally who could help me learn so I contacted a mold company. The older gentleman had me pay one of his employees for his day of wages and we made a mold of a project I had handcrafted. It was a crash course that cost eighty bucks and I had the mold afterwords to keep.

 

[editec]

It means hjmick is an idiot

He's not the only one who's claiming the compelled attendance and financing of gubmint schooling is a "right".

Try to stay on topic.

No shit, compelled attendance.
Let me tell you my (and my eldest daughter's) story about compelled attendance of high school.
My eldest realized that high school was a waste of her time. At 16 she wanted to get her GED, quit school and start college. I was all for it, but here is how the state forces kids to stay in crappy public schools. Here in NC, if you aren't actively attending high school, you are not allowed a drivers license until you are 18 (Or in possession of a valid diploma, GED's don't count). Now how the hell is she supposed to get back and forth to work and college if the state wont let her drive? She was forced by the state to stay in school for 2 more years instead of starting college early. That's just bullshit.

That's because our society like to pretend that DRIVING is a previlege.

I'm of the opinion that driving should be a right (once one gets their license, of course) because of the nature of our society.

But now we're taking away people's licenses for things like owing the government (or a spouse) money.

What they did to you sister seems highly unfair.

 

[Annie]

AP courses probably come closest to what used to be considered high school curriculum.

Why is that? The dumbing down of education across the spectrum. Then there's the 'education methodologies' such as teaching 'high level math' from K on up. Parents are under the impression that because they are seeing 'algebra' and 'geometry' added in early programs, that kids are learning 'so much more' than they did. Problem is there is no rhyme, reason, or logic to it. The kids are 'introduced', but are not learning the basics. It's wrong and as anyone looking knows, math scores are not improving, in many of the 'best schools' they have been falling.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a strong proponent of education for any that are willing to do the work and pay the price, both of which indicate the desire to reach a goal. When everyone can do it, the meaning, (standards), have changed.

Learning certain skills to operate a business, do a particular job or acquire a particular licenses do not always have to be done in a college setting. Sometimes short courses are a more efficient tool to learn depending on your abilities to study.

With the ability to self study one can pass many state licensing tests in many of the states. Real Estate, contracting and insurance licensing comes to mind. In certain states if one can even pass the bar exam they can get a license to practice law.

Rod taught himself how to build, repair and trouble shoot transmissions years ago. A friend gave him his books and he started in. He had people requesting his services for years and years after he closed his shop.

About ten years ago I wanted to learn how to make my own molds. I could not find anyone locally who could help me learn so I contacted a mold company. The older gentleman had me pay one of his employees for his day of wages and we made a mold of a project I had handcrafted. It was a crash course that cost eighty bucks and I had the mold afterwords to keep.

I agree, wholeheartedly. The 'cost effectiveness' of a college education has been falling for those that aren't in a professional course of study. As more people get degrees they mean less. While liberal arts to me are the courses that expand one's thinking, they won't get you a job, something very necessary in our world.

 

[alan1]

He's not the only one who's claiming the compelled attendance and financing of gubmint schooling is a "right".

Try to stay on topic.

No shit, compelled attendance.
Let me tell you my (and my eldest daughter's) story about compelled attendance of high school.
My eldest realized that high school was a waste of her time. At 16 she wanted to get her GED, quit school and start college. I was all for it, but here is how the state forces kids to stay in crappy public schools. Here in NC, if you aren't actively attending high school, you are not allowed a drivers license until you are 18 (Or in possession of a valid diploma, GED's don't count). Now how the hell is she supposed to get back and forth to work and college if the state wont let her drive? She was forced by the state to stay in school for 2 more years instead of starting college early. That's just bullshit.

That's because our society like to pretend that DRIVING is a previlege.

I'm of the opinion that driving should be a right (once one gets their license, of course) because of the nature of our society.

But now we're taking away people's licenses for things like owing the government (or a spouse) money.

What they did to you sister seems highly unfair.

It was my daughter, not my sister.
I was pretty damn pissed off about it. She wanted to learn something more beneficial than the crap she was getting fed in high school, but evidently the state wants a bunch of lazy dumbasses instead of intelligent productive members of society.

 

[DamnYankee]

It means hjmick is an idiot

He's not the only one who's claiming the compelled attendance and financing of gubmint schooling is a "right".

Try to stay on topic.

No shit, compelled attendance.
Let me tell you my (and my eldest daughter's) story about compelled attendance of high school.
My eldest realized that high school was a waste of her time. At 16 she wanted to get her GED, quit school and start college. I was all for it, but here is how the state forces kids to stay in crappy public schools. Here in NC, if you aren't actively attending high school, you are not allowed a drivers license until you are 18 (Or in possession of a valid diploma, GED's don't count). Now how the hell is she supposed to get back and forth to work and college if the state wont let her drive? She was forced by the state to stay in school for 2 more years instead of starting college early. That's just bullshit.

The people of your state allow that shit?