Iraq told us to LEAVE "their" country - PERIOD!

[M.D. Rawlings]

Alright, the Iraqis told us to leave.

So why is Obama authorizing air strikes in Iraq?

Lefty simply cannot wrap his head around the larger political and strategic realities beyond the letter of Article 26 of the agreement.

 

[The T]

NO they didn't. The average Iraqui wanted us to STAY...Testimony I've read from troops that were there attest to it...they KNEW what we did for them...the POLITICIANS had other IDEAS...OBAMA FUCKED UP.

OBAMA had to get RE-ELECTED.

Deany? You're an IDIOT.

 

[EconChick]

Notfooled, let me repeat this concept again. You need to think about it very hard and let it sink in. You keep looking through your western eyes instead of through the prism of an antiquated country lacking in legal and many other infrastructures.



International law and treaties? Dude, you mean you don't know the difference between a western developed country with sophisticated legal, banking, and political systems and a country starting from scratch in those areas?

You actually think you can apply standards seen in Belgium or Germany to Iraq?????




ETA: In fact, now that I realize you're making that classic mistake of looking through American eyes and not Iraqi eyes...it's an honest mistake....not out of an attempt to lie..... I'll go easier on you.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

No one is disputing the targeted date for withdrawal. What you don't know, however, inbred, is that the 2008 agreement already provided for an extension if it were deemed necessary by either the U.S. or Iraq! It wasn't their call, but our call that counted in the end.

This statement is as ridiculous as it is not true. The US Iraq SOFA 2008 does not provide for an extension of the January 2012 hard and fixed deadline other than to say that all amendments must be made in accordance with Iraq's constitution.

The US could never have last call in bypassing Iraq's Constitution.

I don't see any mention of 10,000 troops in the SOFA. Where is it?

 

[EconChick]

I've wasted about 20 hours in the past weeks trying to patiently explain why your comments are so far off about the SOFA.

You talk as if there was one SOFA.

You talk as if there was a SOFA and no negotiations before, during, and after.

There is not a single verifiable fact in any of your comment. You need not 'explain' your opinions why I'm so far off about the SOFA because you are not citing anything to back your opinions up. The language in the SOFA has been posted. The FACT that Maliki began running the Defense Ministry and Interior Ministry meant that all power and decisions about security was made by him. He did what dictators do. He made the National Army coup-proof by getting rid of Sunni Officers that were competent and replaced them with his stooges.

Maliki screwed up the chain of command and that is mostly why the Iraqi Army ran when ISIS raided Mosul. The Maliki Stooge Generals hopped on helicopters and abandoned their troops and let the troops see it. So they broke and ran too. That's Maliki not Obama.

Half the Obama bashers are saying Obama didn't want troops to stay. The other half are saying he did want troops to stay. Do you take both positions ... odd days Stay even days 'go'?

Ok, now that I realize you keep projecting the way we Americans or westerners do things.....which is not how they did things in a country knocked back to the stone age...I see you are making an honest mistake.

You keep talking about "citing facts." There is so little about what we did over there that can be found in some publication...or on the internet.

The overwhelming majority of how things "actually" got done was like putting duct tape on a broken TV antennae.

It was layers and layers of complexity and anything but the black and white "rule of law" you're picturing in your head.

When you're so close to something, you forget that people who aren't there don't see it.

When you say Maliki took over MOD and Interior....dude, I worked many months with Interior.....there is nothing black and white about the reality. We were there holding their hands the whole way. One of the reasons is because we were pouring money in to build things they needed like Police Academies, Court Houses, barracks....hell the list is so long of how our hands were in things.

You keep making statements that those of us that were there just shake our heads at.

Are you going to find ANYTHING I experienced there in some link on the internet? Not one thing. I can't blame you for not understanding the different culture and infrastructure but you'd think you'd defer to someone who was actually DOING what the journalists you quote only wished they understood from their safe desks outside of the war zone.

 

[EconChick]

No one is disputing the targeted date for withdrawal. What you don't know, however, inbred, is that the 2008 agreement already provided for an extension if it were deemed necessary by either the U.S. or Iraq! It wasn't their call, but our call that counted in the end.

This statement is as ridiculous as it is not true. The US Iraq SOFA 2008 does not provide for an extension of the January 2012 hard and fixed deadline other than to say that all amendments must be made in accordance with Iraq's constitution.

The US could never have last call in bypassing Iraq's Constitution.

I don't see any mention of 10,000 troops in the SOFA. Where is it?

STOP. JUST STOP IT. IRAQ WAS NOT THE FUCKING HAGUE. You keep assuming an agreement written in Iraq was just like international agreements completed in highly developed western countries.

YOUR PREMISE IS WRONG. Your keep building your whole argument on faulty assumptions.

It was a war torn country with extremely complex facets. You're picturing peaceful France or Japan.

 

[EconChick]

Were "we" invited guests to begin with?

Another know nothing.

Yes we WERE invited. I actually drove through the streets heading to Erbil where Kurds lined the streets with adults and children waving American flags.

I won't waste more time explaining. I'm sure your next post will reveal more of your ignorance.

So you are saying that Saddam Hussein invited George Bush and Company to invade Iraq?
or maybe you are saying this happened after Shock and Awe?
Or maybe they invited us after the Iraqi Army that we trained and financed for 10 years plus ran like cowards and refuse to fight the ISIS even though they outnumbered ISIS by 40 to 1. I think this is the most likely one.

There were plenty of Iraqis that wanted our help. I saw it with my own eyes.

And your experience there is what??????

Look all you rigid brained dudes/dudettes, the polls show your leader doing even worse today than last week. Most Americans get it.

I know it's hard to accept but the guy has no Commander in Chief skills. He has others, but not those.

 

[EconChick]

Hilarious...you that is.
I hope you stay here for a long time.

You've shown no special insight or presented any facts except to tell us that 'a lot goes on behind closed doors'.
I'm sure you've just come to realise that yourself, and it must have been a mind-blowing epiphany when you came up with that revelation but I'm pretty sure the rest of us here have known it for quite a long time.

No, that isn't all she said. Your brain thinks so because you can't read or don't care to. Personal accounts aren't linked to the internet, did you know that? You can disagree due to your own bias but to pretend nothing was said is sheer stupidity. And the "I hope you stay around" comment is transparent grade school level stuff. Grow up.

No, she's a low level partisan clown who hasn't presented a single verifiable fact here.
When you stop your pathetic generic comments about 'liberals' maybe you'll have some high ground to speak about insults from others.
Until that day, try not to feel so hurt.

You call the liberal shit you pull off the internet "verifiable?"

What's verifiable is what conservatives keep posting on this thread -- that Obama keeps getting caught in major lie after major lie. Even the dogs and cats can see it. LOL.



Even Hillary has thrown him under the bus!

 

[Plasmaball]

NO they didn't. The average Iraqui wanted us to STAY...Testimony I've read from troops that were there attest to it...they KNEW what we did for them...the POLITICIANS had other IDEAS...OBAMA FUCKED UP.

OBAMA had to get RE-ELECTED.

Deany? You're an IDIOT.

you dont read....You supported us going into Iraq in the first place. You have no place complaining after the fact. fucking cheerleader

 

[Plasmaball]

No, that isn't all she said. Your brain thinks so because you can't read or don't care to. Personal accounts aren't linked to the internet, did you know that? You can disagree due to your own bias but to pretend nothing was said is sheer stupidity. And the "I hope you stay around" comment is transparent grade school level stuff. Grow up.

No, she's a low level partisan clown who hasn't presented a single verifiable fact here.
When you stop your pathetic generic comments about 'liberals' maybe you'll have some high ground to speak about insults from others.
Until that day, try not to feel so hurt.

You call the liberal shit you pull off the internet "verifiable?"

What's verifiable is what conservatives keep posting on this thread -- that Obama keeps getting caught in major lie after major lie. Even the dogs and cats can see it. LOL.



Even Hillary has thrown him under the bus!

yes you've been explained to about Hillary and how she is more Hawkish....I guess you are too thick to understand that...

 

[NotfooledbyW]

You keep looking through your western eyes instead of through the prism of an antiquated country lacking in legal and many other infrastructures.

I can read and comprehend what Crocker signed for the USA. If it does not say what Bush thought it said in modern plain seventh grade English then the damned fool Bush should not have authorized Cocker to sign it.

That prism you use. You are bending the truth to such severe distortion that its clear that you have no sense of the necessity that words must have meaning specifically in legal matters of international law and respect for sovereignty of nations - even Iraq after what Bush incited with his invasion.

Perhaps your prism is what caused you to miss the fact that the 2008 SOFA had to be passed by Iraq's parliament.

 

[Ibentoken]

NO they didn't. The average Iraqui wanted us to STAY...Testimony I've read from troops that were there attest to it...they KNEW what we did for them...the POLITICIANS had other IDEAS...OBAMA FUCKED UP.

OBAMA had to get RE-ELECTED.

Deany? You're an IDIOT.

you dont read....You supported us going into Iraq in the first place. You have no place complaining after the fact. fucking cheerleader

You don't want to acknowledge Obama is responsible for this mess. Our generals told Obama this would happen.

 

[Plasmaball]

NO they didn't. The average Iraqui wanted us to STAY...Testimony I've read from troops that were there attest to it...they KNEW what we did for them...the POLITICIANS had other IDEAS...OBAMA FUCKED UP.

OBAMA had to get RE-ELECTED.

Deany? You're an IDIOT.

you dont read....You supported us going into Iraq in the first place. You have no place complaining after the fact. fucking cheerleader

You don't want to acknowledge Obama is responsible for this mess. Our generals told Obama this would happen.

he is part of the issue since he pulled everyone out and left the Iraqi Government on there own when he shouldnt have. It seems they still needed to be Advised and told what to do. It also seems Maliki needed to be watched more closely since he decided to push out the Sunni's as soon as we left.

 

[Kosh]

You keep looking through your western eyes instead of through the prism of an antiquated country lacking in legal and many other infrastructures.

I can read and comprehend what Crocker signed for the USA. If it does not say what Bush thought it said in modern plain seventh grade English then the damned fool Bush should not have authorized Cocker to sign it.

That prism you use. You are bending the truth to such severe distortion that its clear that you have no sense of the necessity that words must have meaning specifically in legal matters of international law and respect for sovereignty of nations - even Iraq after what Bush incited with his invasion.

Perhaps your prism is what caused you to miss the fact that the 2008 SOFA had to be passed by Iraq's parliament.

The fact remains Obama did not want troops there for the up coming 2012 elections and picked up his ball and went home instead of trying to negotiate.

Obama dropped the ball he now owns what is happening in Iraq, plain and simple other wise we will go back 2000 years to find the real problem.

As soon at the far left can suck it up and admit that Obama was wrong, we will be stuck in the blame Boooooosssh! era forever.

 

[Desperado]

Another know nothing.

Yes we WERE invited. I actually drove through the streets heading to Erbil where Kurds lined the streets with adults and children waving American flags.

I won't waste more time explaining. I'm sure your next post will reveal more of your ignorance.

So you are saying that Saddam Hussein invited George Bush and Company to invade Iraq?
or maybe you are saying this happened after Shock and Awe?
Or maybe they invited us after the Iraqi Army that we trained and financed for 10 years plus ran like cowards and refuse to fight the ISIS even though they outnumbered ISIS by 40 to 1. I think this is the most likely one.

There were plenty of Iraqis that wanted our help. I saw it with my own eyes. .

The Iraqi Army got plenty of our help in training and equipment, but when push came to shove they were worthless when it came to defending their democracy. If they don't feel like it is worth defending, why should we care?

 

[The T]

You keep looking through your western eyes instead of through the prism of an antiquated country lacking in legal and many other infrastructures.

I can read and comprehend what Crocker signed for the USA. If it does not say what Bush thought it said in modern plain seventh grade English then the damned fool Bush should not have authorized Cocker to sign it.

That prism you use. You are bending the truth to such severe distortion that its clear that you have no sense of the necessity that words must have meaning specifically in legal matters of international law and respect for sovereignty of nations - even Iraq after what Bush incited with his invasion.

Perhaps your prism is what caused you to miss the fact that the 2008 SOFA had to be passed by Iraq's parliament.

The fact remains Obama did not want troops there for the up coming 2012 elections and picked up his ball and went home instead of trying to negotiate.

Obama dropped the ball he now owns what is happening in Iraq, plain and simple other wise we will go back 2000 years to find the real problem.

As soon at the far left can suck it up and admit that Obama was wrong, we will be stuck in the blame Boooooosssh! era forever.

Great point. Blaming BUSH after six years of Obama being in charge holds ZERO water. Obama OWNS THIS. The Left had better wake up. They are on thin cracked ice...

 

[The T]

So you are saying that Saddam Hussein invited George Bush and Company to invade Iraq?
or maybe you are saying this happened after Shock and Awe?
Or maybe they invited us after the Iraqi Army that we trained and financed for 10 years plus ran like cowards and refuse to fight the ISIS even though they outnumbered ISIS by 40 to 1. I think this is the most likely one.

There were plenty of Iraqis that wanted our help. I saw it with my own eyes. .

The Iraqi Army got plenty of our help in training and equipment, but when push came to shove they were worthless when if came to defending their democracy. If they don't feel like it is worth defending, why should we care?

WHY should we care? They threw down their weapons that WE gave them...MOOT POINT...GUESS who has them NOW?

Obama should have NEGOTIATED for a Status Of Forces agreement...Political expediency was MORE of import to Obama for Re-Election...EVIL is the result...AT OUR DOORSTEP...

THAT is WHY WE should care...WAKE UP!

 

[Plasmaball]

There were plenty of Iraqis that wanted our help. I saw it with my own eyes. .

The Iraqi Army got plenty of our help in training and equipment, but when push came to shove they were worthless when if came to defending their democracy. If they don't feel like it is worth defending, why should we care?

WHY should we care? They threw down their weapons that WE gave them...MOOT POINT...GUESS who has them NOW?

Obama should have NEGOTIATED for a Status Of Forces agreement...Political expediency was MORE of import to Obama for Re-Election...EVIL is the result...AT OUR DOORSTEP...

THAT is WHY WE should care...WAKE UP!

he did negotiate with SOFA but both parties didnt want to listen....Again ignorance

 

[NotfooledbyW]

As for Petreaus, I had to show up in his office to update him, idiot. Do you know how many complex, ambiguous statements he made in all his years there????? .

On the "Obabble Thinks..." thread, yesterday at 08:24 PM, deltex1 wrote, "General Keane saying that Obabble's waiting on reconciliation of Iraqi government caused the tragedy on the mountain."

At 10:41 PM I wrote, "Show me General Keane's quote? If you are into quoting US Generals how about this one: What about Petraeus: "

Q: Would it have happened if we had had 25,000 troops still on the ground?

Petraeus: No one knows whether forces there would have given us an influence. That’s the question for the ages. They were out of combat, out of the cities and out of the advising.

So you have to ask what the mission would have been. And again, without knowing what mission Prime Minister Maliki would have allowed them to do, it’s hard to say how much influence they might have achieved, again noting that there was a quite a robust security assistance force and that did not seem to translate.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...nt-a-surprise/

Since you have such a keen sense of when high officials and military officers are being 'ambiguous' (having several possible meanings) and all decisions about what people are saying must be approved by you, Which one of all the possible meanings is true?

That of course is dependent on whether not Deltex1 was telling the truth about what General Keane supposedly said.

Petraeus didn't write the SOFA in 2008 that Bush had Ryan Crocker sign. Are you going to explain why the President and Commander in Chief of a modern stable democracy and the leader of the free world did not know that the SOFA he was signing meant that "ALL" US troops had to be out of Iraq by January 1, 2012?

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Blaming BUSH after six years of Obama being in charge holds ZERO water.

I'm not 'blaming Bush' for signing the 2008 SOFA that mandated that all US Troops leave Iraq by January 1, 2012. "Great Job Bushie!!!!!!!" What is your point?