Iraq 2004 Vs. Vietnam 1966

Discussion in 'Middle East - General' started by NATO AIR, Dec 28, 2004.

  1. NATO AIR
    Offline

    NATO AIR Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2004
    Messages:
    4,275
    Thanks Received:
    282
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    USS Abraham Lincoln
    Ratings:
    +282
    interesting analysis of the vast improvement of military medicine, the intensity of combat and much, much more.

     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  2. onedomino
    Offline

    onedomino SCE to AUX

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    2,677
    Thanks Received:
    474
    Trophy Points:
    98
    Ratings:
    +476
    Good article, NATO.

    As American Civil War historian Shelby Foote noted: “Sherman was maybe the first truly modem general. He was the first one to understand that civilians were the backers-up of things and that if you went against civilians, you'd deprive the army of what kept it going.”

    This is as true today as it was when Sherman marched through Georgia. The harsh reality is that until the Sunnis in Iraq, Syria, and Saudi Arabia are made to pay a terrible price for their support of the Iraq “insurgency,” the war will smolder indefinitely.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  3. CSM
    Offline

    CSM Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2004
    Messages:
    6,907
    Thanks Received:
    708
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Northeast US
    Ratings:
    +708
    I dont know. Manipulating numbers and statistics seems a little underhanded to me. The KIAs are just as dead and the WIAs are just as wounded. While the numbers and percentages can be thrown around, the fact remains that there are men and women in harm's way. making them into numbers seems to dehumanize them and diminish their sacrifice. Whether in Viet Nam or in Iraq, the loss of our soldiers is a tragic event, regardless of the numbers.

    The overall impression I got from this article was that here is an attempt to make the statistics for Iraq somehow worse or equal to the statistics for Viet Nam; something I am sure the anti war crowd will portray as another administration failure. In other words, I have to wonder if there is some political motivation behind this "scientific study".
     
  4. dilloduck
    Offline

    dilloduck Diamond Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2004
    Messages:
    53,240
    Thanks Received:
    5,552
    Trophy Points:
    1,850
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Ratings:
    +6,403
    Maybe his motivation was just bucks or acclaim but I get uncomfortable too when any comparison to Viet Nam is made and usually wait for the next shoe to drop. Interesting atricle just on face value tho.
     
  5. onedomino
    Offline

    onedomino SCE to AUX

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    2,677
    Thanks Received:
    474
    Trophy Points:
    98
    Ratings:
    +476
    CSM, it is fair to compare the American conflict in Iraq with both the American conflict in Viet Nam and the Soviet conflict in Afghanistan. The Americans lost in Viet Nam and the Soviets lost in Afghanistan because the international supporters of enemy forces were allowed to proceed with impunity. The same thing is happening today with the war in Iraq.
     
  6. dilloduck
    Offline

    dilloduck Diamond Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2004
    Messages:
    53,240
    Thanks Received:
    5,552
    Trophy Points:
    1,850
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Ratings:
    +6,403
    Fair enough although there may be some under the table diplomacy going on and in the long run, the less America has to do there the more the Iraqis will appreciate their freedom
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  7. CSM
    Offline

    CSM Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2004
    Messages:
    6,907
    Thanks Received:
    708
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Northeast US
    Ratings:
    +708
    I have no argument with that. My point was that comparing casualty figures does not make sense. The premise for the article is that if you remove the advances in transportation, medicine, etc then the casualty figures for Iraq are on par or worse than those of Vietnam. I believe that it is deceitful to ignore those advances. It is like saying the death rate among the US population is worse today than it was in 1778 IF you ignore advances in medicine, etc.

    I am in total agreement that in fighting a morally and politically correct war, the casualty rate is in unwarranted and unacceptable. War can and never should be fought with the idea that the value of your soldiers lives is somehow less than that of your opponent's. When the decision is made to go to war, then the there should be NO limits place upon the commitment to the soldiers fighting that war.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  8. onedomino
    Offline

    onedomino SCE to AUX

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    2,677
    Thanks Received:
    474
    Trophy Points:
    98
    Ratings:
    +476
    And in a war like Iraq, no limits (short of WMD) on attacking the Sunnis (Iraqi and otherwise) supporting the conflict.

     
  9. NATO AIR
    Offline

    NATO AIR Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2004
    Messages:
    4,275
    Thanks Received:
    282
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    USS Abraham Lincoln
    Ratings:
    +282
    I see this and I wonder. Especially the part about Congress finally addressing their needs accordingly, on this the authors are little unclear.

    If they are referring to troop levels, I honestly believe the Army/Marines need more troops, I do understand and praise the promising evolution (like the Stryker brigades people have spoken) of the armed forces, but I still think we could use more forces trained in fields like medicine, civil affairs, intelligence and peacekeeping. We've got plenty of heroic, intelligent warriors, we don't enough builders. As the number of failed states hopefully dwindles, they will fall apart and we will have to at least "help" rebuild them. We can't continue to task our warriors with building, they give their best but it is still not natural to them.
     

Share This Page