Iran Here we go again with the Euros/UN

Discussion in 'Middle East - General' started by Annie, Sep 14, 2004.

  1. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    Yes folks, we are about to replay the Iraq problems:

    http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040914/ap_on_re_mi_ea/nuclear_agency_3

     
  2. onedomino
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    onedomino SCE to AUX

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    Kathianne, just when you thought there could not be anything more annoying and unproductive than working with the EU and IAEA, we receive this mound of prattle from the Chinese government in the form of an "editorial" posted on the "China Daily" website:

    "Rationality Needed to Solve Iran Nuclear Issue
    Fang Zhou Updated: 2004-09-15 08:52
    It seems that the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) is determined to free itself from US influence in solving the Iranian nuclear issue despite continuing diplomatic pressure from Washington for a tougher stance on Teheran.
    Mohamed ElBaradei, chief of the UN nuclear watchdog, said on Monday there is no deadline for it to end its investigations into Iran's programme, which Washington says is for the production of nuclear weapons. Teheran maintains it is for peaceful purposes.
    "It's an open process and we will finish when I believe we are finished," ElBaradei said at a board of governors meeting of the IAEA in Vienna, although he did call on Iran to provide more information.
    Elbaradei also said the world's nuclear body has gained some progress in Iran's nuclear probe with the co-operation of Teheran and other countries.
    Britain, France and Germany warned Iran of possible "further steps" from the IAEA if it fails to respond to international concerns about its weapons-related nuclear programme by November, when the Vienna-based nuclear agency convenes its next board of governors meeting.
    This ultimatum-issuing tone is not constructive.
    The three European "big powers" have remained in contact with Iran since its uranium enrichment was released last year. The United States has recently lobbied to have Teheran hauled before the United Nations Security Council.
    John R. Bolton, US Undersecretary of State, even threatened on Sunday that the United States will push for sanctions against Iran if Teheran does not renounce its pursuit of nuclear weapons.
    The three European countries' November deadline for Teheran can drive the issue into an impasse rather than solve it.
    The intransigence by Iran and the United States is reminiscent of the eve of the Iraq War, when the United States also set a deadline for former Iraq's Saddam Hussein regime to accept UN nuclear inspection teams to inspect its alleged weapons of mass destruction programme.
    This ultimatum has since proved to be useless as the United States, its inspectors, and the IAEA have so far failed to find sound evidence for any such programme in Iraq.
    The IAEA and other international organizations should be given their own space to operate independently when dealing with international issues."


    Of course the assertion that "rationality is needed to solve [the] Iran nuclear issue" implies that the Iranians are rational; hardly a demonstrable contention.

    The nauseating irony of the above "editorial" is that we have the Chinese to thank for the fact that the Iranians now have the ability to develop nuclear weapons. It was the Chinese who transferred nuclear technology to the Pakistanis, who in turn sold it to the Iranians. An adequate description of the hideous Chinese military establishment is almost beyond expression. They hated the Indians so much that they were willing to give Islamic sociopaths nuclear weapons. In future historical analysis of the 20th century, Chinese nuke transfer to the Pakistains will go down as one of the worst international crimes; the ramifications of which have yet to fully play out.

    I bet the writer of the "editorial" above is not even aware that his government is the original source of the current Iranian nuke problem. I lived in Shanghai for two years and traveled extensively throughout China. I have worked with many Chinese who possess advanced degrees. It never ceased to amaze me how little they knew of recent history and current events.
     
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  3. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    I think this is the link to your article: http://news.google.com/news?q=Ratio...sue&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&as_qdr=all&tab=wn

    It's very important to add a link, especially when quoting a published article.

    I have to agree with your analysis onedomino, the UN has lost credibility steadily for at least the past 25 years. Wasn't that long ago that Syria chaired the human rights committee. :rolleyes: Libya, before their 'change' of heart also was granted that honor.

    The Europeans are different than the UN, really. It will be interesting to see what happens if the WOT hits them at an unacceptable level. Too many lose site of the fact that the US had been hit repeatedly since the mid-late 70's, but the various administrations obviously decided that it was an acceptable level. 9/11 is what it took to get us moving. Wonder what their threshold would be?
     
  4. NATO AIR
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    NATO AIR Senior Member

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    I fully agree about the Chinese. They're still helping the North Koreans as well. The ironic part is that all this Chinese assistance to rogue nations has brought three countries to the threshold of creating and maintaining nuclear arms (south korea, japan and india, which has already past this mark and is now improving its arsenal)

    all three of these nations have in more than one way aided the US in checking the influence of China and countering its aggression. And they will continue to......
     
  5. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    I agree with what you posted above. At the same time, other than India, the others lack the size/population to offset China. China is also on the upside, I mean where do you go from bottom, economically. So far, they've been able to use some capitalism motives to help raise their productivity, while still excercising the rigid controls necessary to maintain communism. (Funny thing, communism has the same limitations on it's citizens and rulers that slavery did on owners and slaves.)

    It would be a good idea if Australia was in that Pacific group too, don't you think? I know they are not Asia, but they are Pacific, modern, and educated.
     
  6. NATO AIR
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    NATO AIR Senior Member

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    i kept australia off because they are more concerned with terrorism than anything else. as their cooperation with indonesia increases, their once rival is now their ally, as other nations in SE Asia (Thailand, Singapore, Malaysia) start to welcome Australia into the fold. So Austrailia feels less concerned with China than South Korea, Japan and India. They are still strongly our ally, and growing closer ties with the three above nations.

    Japan has a top notch military, as do the South Koreans, the Chinese should never underestimate these two nation's ability to defend themselves.

    Another interesting note is that the Chinese have serious issues that are going to end up hindering their self-proclaimed "ascension". They have SERIOUS labor, land and development issues that will impact hundreds of millions of people within their borders and regionally as well, and it will take incredible leadership and vision on their part to make the right calls to prevent disaster. I do agree they're on the upswing, but nearly everyone else is, and China's concerns dwarf these other nations' problems.

    And how much longer will educated, skilled Chinese accept "slave" labor laws and protections?
     
  7. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    I am aware that SK is probably the most armed area on earth and Japan is close by. :) No doubt they can both defend themselves, but NOT contain China-which will become more and more necessary in the years ahead-unless there is some change that I cannot forsee. (Not only fighting communism, but the nature of Chinese culture. Heh, perhaps I argue myself out of this, China's culture really doesn't lend itself to expansion, but communism does. hmmm). India could certainly act as a counterweight, but so many internal problems, not to mention the Pakistan problem, always present.
     
  8. NATO AIR
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    NATO AIR Senior Member

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    that is true kathianne... forgive me for looking at the situation through military eyes only. chinese economic power will be formidable, as well as their political/diplomatic power.
     
  9. onedomino
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    onedomino SCE to AUX

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    Communism is dying in China. The "Communist Party" still runs the show, but during the past ten years most of its economic programs have been capitalist in nature. That is one of the reasons that the Chinese economy is booming. Some of the most ardent capitalists I have ever met live in Shanghai. While communism is fading in China, authoritarianism is not. There is almost zero democracy at any political level. All forms of media are strictly controlled. The New York Times, Time Magazine, and CNN, are forbidden. Their websites are also blocked. Google is blocked. There are about 200 million Chinese that live in the cities and gain the advantages of the new economy. China's overwhelming problem is what to do with the 1.1 billion people living in rural regions. What is going to happen when these people figure out what they have been missing in the cities? Once I asked my Shanghai friend Litao to do a thought experiment with me. "Litao, what would happen if we could flip a switch and tomorrow China would be a democracy?" "It would explode." He said.
     
  10. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    Pretty much same take as NATO and I. I disagree about the communist fade, with the possible exception of some in the university, though I've heard zero about that for quite awhile. You say you've traveled there a lot, so I will certainly keep that in mind.
     

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