CDZ Inviting ALL leftists for an HONEST conversation

[koshergrl]

We all know what socialism is.

No, we don't all know what it means, because its meaning can be different depending on who is using the word in what context, and sometimes the same people will give the word two different meanings depending on what argument they're trying to make.

So right out of the gate I would like it to be defined by the OP.

No, we all know what it means.
Maybe you need a dictionary.

 

[Confounding]

Because it wouldn't work that way. Compulsory contribution is required to reach the numbers needed to effectively mitigate the problems they're trying to mitigate.

What are the “numbers needed”? What is that range?

It depends on the proposal. The point is voluntary contributions wouldn't amount to enough, so yes, they're going to take it from you and everybody else.

 

[koshergrl]

Because it wouldn't work that way. Compulsory contribution is required to reach the numbers needed to effectively mitigate the problems they're trying to mitigate.

What are the “numbers needed”? What is that range?

It depends on the proposal. The point is voluntary contributions wouldn't amount to enough, so yes, they're going to take it from you and everybody else.

Not from me.

 

[P@triot]

Bernie Sanders, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, and more have gone on record stating otherwise.

If you didn't make it up, I'm sure you can point out where they said the government should nationalize all means of production.

As you watch this, please think about how silly it is to deny reality that cannot be denied:

 

[Confounding]

Because it wouldn't work that way. Compulsory contribution is required to reach the numbers needed to effectively mitigate the problems they're trying to mitigate.

What are the “numbers needed”? What is that range?

It depends on the proposal. The point is voluntary contributions wouldn't amount to enough, so yes, they're going to take it from you and everybody else.

Not from me.

You don't pay taxes? How do you pull that off?

 

[P@triot]

Because it wouldn't work that way. Compulsory contribution is required to reach the numbers needed to effectively mitigate the problems they're trying to mitigate.

What are the “numbers needed”? What is that range?

It depends on the proposal. The point is voluntary contributions wouldn't amount to enough, so yes, they're going to take it from you and everybody else.

No..you can’t backtrack like that. You claimed it wouldn’t work due to the numbers. So what are the numbers?

 

[koshergrl]

Because it wouldn't work that way. Compulsory contribution is required to reach the numbers needed to effectively mitigate the problems they're trying to mitigate.

What are the “numbers needed”? What is that range?

It depends on the proposal. The point is voluntary contributions wouldn't amount to enough, so yes, they're going to take it from you and everybody else.

Not from me.

You don't pay taxes? How do you pull that off?

Magic.

 

[Confounding]

Bernie Sanders, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, and more have gone on record stating otherwise.

If you didn't make it up, I'm sure you can point out where they said the government should nationalize all means of production.

As you watch this, please think about how silly it is to deny reality that cannot be denied:

He didn't say he wants to nationalize production. You are getting caught up on a label when you should be paying attention to the things Bernie actually wants to do.

 

[koshergrl]

Bernie Sanders, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, and more have gone on record stating otherwise.

If you didn't make it up, I'm sure you can point out where they said the government should nationalize all means of production.

As you watch this, please think about how silly it is to deny reality that cannot be denied:

He didn't say he wants to nationalize production. You are getting caught up on a label when you should be paying attention to the things Bernie actually wants to do.

Of course he wants to nationalize production.
You are being dishonest, which all communists are. "Don't pay attention to that, look at what they say they'll do for you!"

It's just more leftist nonsense. They lie and promise all sorts of goodies.
And as soon as they are in power they starve and kill their own people.

 

[Confounding]

So what are the numbers?

It depends on what you're trying to do specifically. It depends on the safety net you're trying to create. I have no idea what numbers you're asking for.

 

[Oddball]

The left is pushing harder than ever for socialism. I've posed this question before but have been unable to get a single leftist to provide an answer: why doesn't the left just create socialism within the confines of the free market?

I'm asking an honest question here. Nobody is stopping the left from all getting together and creating a foundation/co-op/association/etc. in which everyone interested of their own free will puts their resources in for say "universal healthcare" or housing, etc. Nobody has ever stopped the left from doing that and nobody ever would. It has been an option since the U.S. was founded. And yet the left has refused. Why?

They're not interested in voluntary association....You will do as your told, at gunpoint if necessary, peasant.

 

[Oddball]

I think you misunderstand what Bernie represents. He doesn't want to shut down free market competition and give the government unlimited control. Yes, he calls himself a socialist, but if you listen to him you will quickly learn that he's talking about emulating what they do in Scandinavia. Scandinavian countries are actually capitalist. It would be more accurate to call Bernie a Nordic capitalist.

Then why has Bernie Sanders himself declared his is a “Socialist” instead of a “Nordic Capitalist”? Why can’t you guys just have an honest conversation here?

But...even playing this silly game...why doesn’t Bernie Sanders and his supporters achieve their “Nordic capitalism” through free-will in some sort of an organization/co-op/association/etc.? This is a simple question. Let’s not run from it. Let’s discuss it.

Honesty is the last thing you will get out of any socialist.

 

[koshergrl]

Of course he wants to nationalize production.

No, he doesn't.

You are being dishonest

You are being ignorant.

starve and kill their own people.

For real?

Yes he does, no I'm not, and for real.

 

[Confounding]

Yes he does, no I'm not, and for real.

He wants us to emulate the Scandinavian countries and he has said so for more than 30 years.

 

[P@triot]

He didn't say he wants to nationalize production.

And he didn’t say he didn’t want to “nationalize production”. It’s utterly absurd to deny that Bernie Sanders is a socialist calling for socialism when he himself openly declares himself a socialist while he calls for socialism.

You’re trying to hijack the thread at this point. There is no debating that he (or AOC or others) are socialists. They’ve declared it. This thread is about why they left won’t create their socialist utopia through free will in the free market.

 

[P@triot]

They're not interested in voluntary association....You will do as your told, at gunpoint if necessary, peasant.

Well, that seems to be the indisputable reality of it. I’m waiting for one of them to prove otherwise in an honest, intelligent discussion but so far none of them are even willing to try.

 

[Confounding]

It’s utterly absurd to deny that Bernie Sanders is a socialist calling for socialism

He is a socialist if you think tuition free public universities and universal healthcare = socialism.

 

[Confounding]

why they left won’t create their socialist utopia through free will in the free market.

Because they can't.

 

[P@triot]

He wants us to emulate the Scandinavian countries and he has said so for more than 30 years.

This is literally as absurd as claiming that David Duke isn’t a racist - that he just wants to emulate southern civil war plantations.

Bernie is adamant he is a socialist and that he will nationalize healthcare (among other items).

 

[P@triot]

He is a socialist if you think tuition free public universities and universal healthcare = socialism.

Well considering that is socialism...