Interesting bit on Keynes

[Ravi]

You can listen or read...pretty well describes Keynesian economics.

I found it interesting to learn that economic theories are about as valid as Creationism...in other words, no proof that any of the various theories work.

Obama Gives Keynes His First Real-World Test : NPR

 

[xsited1]

You can listen or read...pretty well describes Keynesian economics.

I found it interesting to learn that economic theories are about as valid as Creationism...in other words, no proof that any of the various theories work.

Obama Gives Keynes His First Real-World Test : NPR

This will be the end for Obama. He hasn't even been in office for a month and he's already doomed his chances for reelection in 2012.

 

[Ravi]

You can listen or read...pretty well describes Keynesian economics.

I found it interesting to learn that economic theories are about as valid as Creationism...in other words, no proof that any of the various theories work.

Obama Gives Keynes His First Real-World Test : NPR

This will be the end for Obama. He hasn't even been in office for a month and he's already doomed his chances for reelection in 2012.

You didn't even read it, did you?

As for your assertion, that all depends on whether it works or not.

 

[manu1959]

Yes, Roosevelt expanded government spending, with an alphabet soup of programs. But he never spent as much money as Keynes said he should have. He also did all sorts of things that Keynes opposed, like raising taxes and trying to balance the budget. Keynes said those steps would cancel out any positive effect from spending. Roosevelt bothered Keynes so much that the economist sent him at least one scolding letter.

Then, finally, geopolitical events took over, and World War II forced Roosevelt to spend as much money as Keynes wanted.

yep.....and then the feds tried to get banks to lend money at zero interest....

now we flood the market with money.......

what happens if i flood the oil market with oil.......

 

[xsited1]

You can listen or read...pretty well describes Keynesian economics.

I found it interesting to learn that economic theories are about as valid as Creationism...in other words, no proof that any of the various theories work.

Obama Gives Keynes His First Real-World Test : NPR

This will be the end for Obama. He hasn't even been in office for a month and he's already doomed his chances for reelection in 2012.

You didn't even read it, did you?

As for your assertion, that all depends on whether it works or not.

I've read the book on Keynesian economics. It doesn't work, period. There are plenty of studies to prove that it doesn't work. As a quick example, Japan spent hundreds of billions on Keynesian public works schemes after 1991, and economic growth averaged only 1.1 percent. On the other hand, other economic theories have been proven to work. Here's a Harvard study entitled "Fiscal Policy, Profits and Investment" in 18 large economies by Profs. Alesina, Ardagna, Perotti and Schiantarelli. The data is overwhelming:

http://fmwww.bc.edu/EC-P/WP504.pdf

If you apply an economic theory that has been proven to fail, it will fail. So why would anyone do something so foolish? Politics.

 

[Ravi]

Yes, Roosevelt expanded government spending, with an alphabet soup of programs. But he never spent as much money as Keynes said he should have. He also did all sorts of things that Keynes opposed, like raising taxes and trying to balance the budget. Keynes said those steps would cancel out any positive effect from spending. Roosevelt bothered Keynes so much that the economist sent him at least one scolding letter.

Then, finally, geopolitical events took over, and World War II forced Roosevelt to spend as much money as Keynes wanted.

yep.....and then the feds tried to get banks to lend money at zero interest....

now we flood the market with money.......

what happens if i flood the oil market with oil.......

If you flood the market with oil, the price goes down. If you flood the market with money and create jobs, you give people money to spend. Spending is really what the economy is all about.

Of course the key is when to stop, and I don't think Keynes ever addressed that point. Not knowing when to stop is basically what caused these policies to fail thirty years after they were started, no?

 

[Ravi]

This will be the end for Obama. He hasn't even been in office for a month and he's already doomed his chances for reelection in 2012.

You didn't even read it, did you?

As for your assertion, that all depends on whether it works or not.

I've read the book on Keynesian economics. It doesn't work, period. There are plenty of studies to prove that it doesn't work. As a quick example, Japan spent hundreds of billions on Keynesian public works schemes after 1991, and economic growth averaged only 1.1 percent. On the other hand, other economic theories have been proven to work. Here's a Harvard study entitled "Fiscal Policy, Profits and Investment" in 18 large economies by Profs. Alesina, Ardagna, Perotti and Schiantarelli. The data is overwhelming:

http://fmwww.bc.edu/EC-P/WP504.pdf

If you apply an economic theory that has been proven to fail, it will fail. So why would anyone do something so foolish? Politics.

I tried to wade throught that...but it was difficult. Could you summarize it for me in your own words? Methinks they suffer a bit from confirmation bias.

 

[Valerie]

If you apply an economic theory that has been proven to fail, it will fail. So why would anyone do something so foolish? Politics.

Could you summarize it for me in your own words? Methinks they suffer a bit from confirmation bias.

I listened to the NPR clip on Keynes. Thanks for posting it!

The basic gist is Politicians and their advisers love to tweak taxing and spending our money. The idea is that the government "steers" the economy. They aim to balance an effective demand between the public and private sector and attempt to permanently eliminate recession.

They conclude that Keynesian economics has no answer for inflation. There is no proof it will work and there is proof that it might not.

 

[manu1959]

Yes, Roosevelt expanded government spending, with an alphabet soup of programs. But he never spent as much money as Keynes said he should have. He also did all sorts of things that Keynes opposed, like raising taxes and trying to balance the budget. Keynes said those steps would cancel out any positive effect from spending. Roosevelt bothered Keynes so much that the economist sent him at least one scolding letter.

Then, finally, geopolitical events took over, and World War II forced Roosevelt to spend as much money as Keynes wanted.

yep.....and then the feds tried to get banks to lend money at zero interest....

now we flood the market with money.......

what happens if i flood the oil market with oil.......

If you flood the market with oil, the price goes down. If you flood the market with money and create jobs, you give people money to spend. Spending is really what the economy is all about.

Of course the key is when to stop, and I don't think Keynes ever addressed that point. Not knowing when to stop is basically what caused these policies to fail thirty years after they were started, no?

money is a comodity same as oil and when you flood the market with money its value ........

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

This will be the end for Obama. He hasn't even been in office for a month and he's already doomed his chances for reelection in 2012.

You didn't even read it, did you?

As for your assertion, that all depends on whether it works or not.

I've read the book on Keynesian economics. It doesn't work, period. There are plenty of studies to prove that it doesn't work. As a quick example, Japan spent hundreds of billions on Keynesian public works schemes after 1991, and economic growth averaged only 1.1 percent.

what shape is Japan in economically compared the the USA?

On the other hand, other economic theories have been proven to work. Here's a Harvard study entitled "Fiscal Policy, Profits and Investment" in 18 large economies by Profs. Alesina, Ardagna, Perotti and Schiantarelli. The data is overwhelming:

http://fmwww.bc.edu/EC-P/WP504.pdf

If you apply an economic theory that has been proven to fail, it will fail. So why would anyone do something so foolish? Politics.

the data is overwhelming? is it theoretical data? hmmmm,...we'll see.

 

[xsited1]

You didn't even read it, did you?

As for your assertion, that all depends on whether it works or not.

I've read the book on Keynesian economics. It doesn't work, period. There are plenty of studies to prove that it doesn't work. As a quick example, Japan spent hundreds of billions on Keynesian public works schemes after 1991, and economic growth averaged only 1.1 percent. On the other hand, other economic theories have been proven to work. Here's a Harvard study entitled "Fiscal Policy, Profits and Investment" in 18 large economies by Profs. Alesina, Ardagna, Perotti and Schiantarelli. The data is overwhelming:

http://fmwww.bc.edu/EC-P/WP504.pdf

If you apply an economic theory that has been proven to fail, it will fail. So why would anyone do something so foolish? Politics.

I tried to wade throught that...but it was difficult. Could you summarize it for me in your own words? Methinks they suffer a bit from confirmation bias.

Harvard economists (and those that Obama listens to) once thought that cutting government spending would shrink the private sector economy. This study found that big cuts in government spending are expansionary, making economies grow.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

we know trickle down economics does not work. so what do we do?

 

[xsited1]

If you apply an economic theory that has been proven to fail, it will fail. So why would anyone do something so foolish? Politics.

Could you summarize it for me in your own words? Methinks they suffer a bit from confirmation bias.

I listened to the NPR clip on Keynes. Thanks for posting it!

The basic gist is Politicians and their advisers love to tweak taxing and spending our money. The idea is that the government "steers" the economy. They aim to balance an effective demand between the public and private sector and attempt to permanently eliminate recession.

They conclude that Keynesian economics has no answer for inflation. There is no proof it will work and there is proof that it might not.

There is overwhelming proof that it doesn't work. However, NPR obviously cannot admit it so they simply say they don't know. Now why would they do that?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I've read the book on Keynesian economics. It doesn't work, period. There are plenty of studies to prove that it doesn't work. As a quick example, Japan spent hundreds of billions on Keynesian public works schemes after 1991, and economic growth averaged only 1.1 percent. On the other hand, other economic theories have been proven to work. Here's a Harvard study entitled "Fiscal Policy, Profits and Investment" in 18 large economies by Profs. Alesina, Ardagna, Perotti and Schiantarelli. The data is overwhelming:

http://fmwww.bc.edu/EC-P/WP504.pdf

If you apply an economic theory that has been proven to fail, it will fail. So why would anyone do something so foolish? Politics.

I tried to wade throught that...but it was difficult. Could you summarize it for me in your own words? Methinks they suffer a bit from confirmation bias.

Harvard economists (and those that Obama listens to) once thought that cutting government spending would shrink the private sector economy. This study found that big cuts in government spending are expansionary, making economies grow.

doubt it. that alone will do nothing. people need to stop being moonbats and wingnuts and take what is proven to work from the different theories. this ideological bullshit some people ares slinging is getting in the way of rational thinking for a real world solution not based on some asshole academic's model or theory.

I doubt any one theory has all of the answer(s).

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

xsited1, shoots the messenger, NPR. now let us see him pick apart ravi too.

sigh

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

http://www.mises.org/books/failureofneweconomics.pdf

Henry Hazlitt's "The Failure of The New Economics," a complete refutation of Keynes' "General Theory."

 

[Ravi]

If you apply an economic theory that has been proven to fail, it will fail. So why would anyone do something so foolish? Politics.

Could you summarize it for me in your own words? Methinks they suffer a bit from confirmation bias.

I listened to the NPR clip on Keynes. Thanks for posting it!

The basic gist is Politicians and their advisers love to tweak taxing and spending our money. The idea is that the government "steers" the economy. They aim to balance an effective demand between the public and private sector and attempt to permanently eliminate recession.

They conclude that Keynesian economics has no answer for inflation. There is no proof it will work and there is proof that it might not.

There is overwhelming proof that it doesn't work. However, NPR obviously cannot admit it so they simply say they don't know. Now why would they do that?

Because there is no proof...only several studies that draw a conclusion. I'm sure we can dig up several that draw a different conclusion.

btw, Manu, I don't think your oil analogy is the right.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Yes, Roosevelt expanded government spending, with an alphabet soup of programs. But he never spent as much money as Keynes said he should have. He also did all sorts of things that Keynes opposed, like raising taxes and trying to balance the budget. Keynes said those steps would cancel out any positive effect from spending. Roosevelt bothered Keynes so much that the economist sent him at least one scolding letter.

Then, finally, geopolitical events took over, and World War II forced Roosevelt to spend as much money as Keynes wanted.

yep.....and then the feds tried to get banks to lend money at zero interest....

now we flood the market with money.......

what happens if i flood the oil market with oil.......

If you flood the market with oil, the price goes down. If you flood the market with money and create jobs, you give people money to spend. Spending is really what the economy is all about.

Of course the key is when to stop, and I don't think Keynes ever addressed that point. Not knowing when to stop is basically what caused these policies to fail thirty years after they were started, no?

if you flood the market with money, you cause inflation and devalue the dollar.

 

[Diuretic]

...........

if you flood the market with money, you cause inflation and devalue the dollar.

Help me. My memory remembers cost-push and demand-pull inflation.

I'm hopeless at this stuff. How does it work with money in the market? No, I am not being disingenuous, I did this years ago and frankly I'm very wobbly on it.

 

[editec]

You can listen or read...pretty well describes Keynesian economics.

I found it interesting to learn that economic theories are about as valid as Creationism...in other words, no proof that any of the various theories work.

Obama Gives Keynes His First Real-World Test : NPR

How did the USA get out of the depression?

Fairly simple...it spend its way out of it during WWII when the national debts mounted up building the arsenal that saved democracy.

Now if the Miseians had been in charge, we couldn't have borrowed all that money to fight that war.

And we're probably still be in a depression or possibly we'd be speaking German.

But hey, if some of us want to cling to the notion that we still live in the 18th century, that our economy is agrarian, and that our economic system is still based on the notion of scarcity, who am I to laugh at them and mock them unmericifully for failing to notice that we are an industrial world and one where there is essantially no scarcity other than the scarcity that comes from a situation where some people have enormous sums of money and others not enough.