Incredible, astounding, appalling...

DGS49

Diamond Member
Apr 12, 2012
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Pittsburgh
I know it's kinda like "old" news by now, but have you all pondered the astounding scope of Volkswagen's environmental/economic crimes?

That little VW four-cylinder turbo-Diesel has been the industry standard for YEARS! Its combination of power, torque, fuel economy and durability have made it the iconic small Diesel engine in the U.S. - the standard to which every other passenger car Diesel has been held for a long, long time. GM showered itself with goo when it introduced the Cruze Diesel a year or so ago, which finally was able to equal or exceed the VW engine in every particular. Is GM cheating, too?

And it was all a bunch of baloney. Excuse me, "Bratwurst."

Who knows what the VW engine will do when operating within the law? Will its power and torque be even satisfactory? Will the 50mpg still exist? VW "Clean Diesel" has literally become a JOKE! Without the fuel economy and performance, WHAT IS THE REASON TO OWN ONE? There is none.

Obviously, the cars can be "fixed" easily by disabling the "defeat" feature so that they run within the law all the time. But after VW makes the inevitable fix on the existing cars, will we see a black-market cottage industry of mechanics who will "re-fix" the modified Diesels so that they will again pollute like crazy while getting 50mpg? You know it will happen.

If you are unfortunate enough to own one, the re-sale value of your car has dropped by AT LEAST 50% in the past two weeks - if you could even find some fool to take it off your hands. Moreover, the cause of this drop in value is FRAUD by VW, for which they can be liable not only for your actual damages, but also PUNITIVE damages (multiples of actual damages) because fraud is an INTENTIONAL TORT! Hell, it might be smart to buy up these cars now, JUST SO THAT YOU CAN BE A PARTY TO THE CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT!!!

And what about VW's credibility? The unspoken criticism of VW - seldom admitted by owners except on anonymous websites - is that their cars are JUNK, that break down regularly and cost an arm and a leg to repair. Will owners now start being honest about their experience with VW and Audi, rather than hiding it to avoid embarrassment for having purchased this expensive German junk?

VW is (was) the Number One car manufacturer IN THE WORLD last year.

This whole thing is un-fucking-believable.

Schadenfreude is a German word describing the feeling of elation one gets when seeing some exalted person (or company) brought low. Chevy owners, can you dig it now?
 
SAME OL' SAME OL'....

Several years the 'great news' broke that car manufacturers were over-hyping their products' gas mileage...
1. DUH
2. Greed

VW Breaks Law to Get Around Massive Regulation in Quest for Larger Profits
1. Yawn...not surprised
2. Greed

...VW got busted. Penalize / Punish them and move on. It's not rocket science.
 
Which car manufacturers were "over hyping" gas mileage? When? What exactly does that mean? The numbers are what they are. Hyundai cooked the books one year; that's the only one I'm aware of.

What is "massive regulation"?

What exactly is wrong with corporations being "greedy"? Are they not created to generate profit?
 
Sounds like a lot of manufacturers may be guilty of similar things. Goes to show you that heavy handed government regulations will always invite corruption.
Demanding for We the People safer level emissions is not heavy handed, it is the duty of responsible government. So you are saying "Don't steal" is more effective than enacting laws against stealing.
 
Which car manufacturers were "over hyping" gas mileage? When? What exactly does that mean? The numbers are what they are. Hyundai cooked the books one year; that's the only one I'm aware of.

What is "massive regulation"?

What exactly is wrong with corporations being "greedy"? Are they not created to generate profit?

Here's one of several:
Hyundai-Kia Caught Puffing MPG Scores
Hyundai-Kia Caught Puffing MPG Scores - autowriters.com

South Korea’s standout twin automakers, Hyundai and Kia, pleaded guilty November 3 to a commonly committed offense-overstating gas mileage of vehicles on EPA stickers.

9While some car companies were caught 'fudging' the numbers a little, this article explains why there is such a gap in reported versus actual, which has to do a lot with the EPA test itself, which was designed to test emissions, not mpg

Why You Might Not Be Getting the Efficiency Promised
Some window stickers promise too much
The Miles per Gallon Gap - Consumer Reports Magazine)
 
Which car manufacturers were "over hyping" gas mileage? When? What exactly does that mean? The numbers are what they are. Hyundai cooked the books one year; that's the only one I'm aware of.

What is "massive regulation"?

What exactly is wrong with corporations being "greedy"? Are they not created to generate profit?


My point is businesses have been cutting corners and 'bending' the rules for years. Many know of problems, calculate the cost of possible litigation versus recalls then don't recall until they are forced to do so, etc.... MONEY, bottom line.

I am not saying a company can't legitimately try to make as much profit as they want and as much as the market (customers) will tolerate / bear, but it is the illegal things like with Hyundai and VW that's the problem.

Again, companies have been doing stuff like VF has for years. Busted - punish them - move on. It's not a national conspiracy of epic proportions...
 
"...one of several..."?

Yes, I am aware of Hyundai/Kia. Name one other. Several? Bullshit.

I have NEVER failed to get at least the mileage indicated on the EPA stickers on the cars I drive. Almost always I get better mileage than advertised.

Anecdote to illustrate the point: When I bought my Honda Goldwing, the previous owner told me to expect 32-35mpg. He rode the bike usually with his wife at (he said) an average of 80mph on the highway. I ride by myself at 65. I get well-over 40 mpg, sometimes close to 50. With my wife, it's still over 40.

I get 33-highway with my wife's CRV, averaging 65-70 mph. The sticker said 30mpg highway.

Similar results with my Chrysler PT cruiser turbo, Honda Ridgeline, Honda Element, Nissan 350Z, etc., etc., etc. All got at least what the sticker "promised."
 
Related question: How safe is safe enough?

If cars had governors that kept their speeds below 50, it would save thousands of lives every year. Is that what you want?

GM had a handful of fatalities related to ignition switches on more than 10 million cars. Is that a "defect"? I don't personally think so. Don't attach your fucking bowling ball to your ignition key!

Is a manufacturer entitled to write off a danger (accept it) if it will only occur (and cause a fatality) one time in, say, a million vehicles? They accept that once in every million vehicles they will have to pay out a $10 million settlement, if to correct that "defect" would cost $11MM.

I have no problem with that. Individual lives are not infinitely valuable, in economic terms.
 
I get 33-highway with my wife's CRV, averaging 65-70 mph. The sticker said 30mpg highway.

Similar results with my Chrysler PT cruiser turbo, Honda Ridgeline, Honda Element, Nissan 350Z, etc., etc., etc. All got at least what the sticker "promised."
You sound like one of those that has traffic backed up 5 miles so you can save a few nickles.
 
I try to maintain a constant speed on the highway, and keep up with the traffic. In my area that means traveling at around 70-72. The only vehicle that required me to stay at 65 for acceptable mileage was the PTCruiser. At 75 I got about 23mpg on high test. at 65 I got 27.
 
I don't generally speed at all in an auto, motorcycles not so much. But some people take foreeeevveeeeer to whip her up to freeway speeds.
 
Kelly Blue Book price of used VW diesels have fallen 13% in 2 weeks. If I was VW owner I'd be pissed. I'd also be calling my insurance agent asking for a rebate on collision portion of my auto insurance.
 
The real value of these cars will not be ascertainable until it is known how they perform (HP, torque, mpg) when complying fully with the law. A Diesel that gets 22mpg is worthless.
 
Scenario:

I buy a used VW Jetta Sportwagen TDI. I take advantage of the current kerfuffle and negotiate a fantastic price from the private-party seller. VW comes up with their "fix," that solves the emissions problem - at no cost to the car's owner - but results in dramatically reduced performance and/or fuel economy.

I get a notice from the local VW dealer to bring in my wagon for the free retrofit (addition of a urea-injection system is my guess). I toss it into the garbage.

How can either VWofAmerica or the USEPA force me to get my car modified if I don't want to do it?

If I were emperor, I would create a green sticker, to be placed in a conspicuous spot on the exterior of each car that has been "fixed." Then, if the gendarmes see a TDI VW tooling around without said sticker, the car will be pulled over and required to go to an emissions testing site for confirmation of the fix. No pass, big fine.

But the Gub-mint is too stupid to be so efficacious.
 
It would be quite simple, actually: the states will get a list of VINs. If the recall is not done, the registration cannot be renewed.

I suspect many will never have the recall done...and many that DO will have the old ECM program reinstalled afterwards.
 
Having worked in government for 5 years (a long time ago), I have my doubts whether many states are competent to carry out such a program, even though it seems to be fairly straightforward.

I saw this morning that their V6 Diesels were also set up to "cheat" and VWofAmerica has been called to answer for it by the EPA. This one involves mainly Audi and VW SUV's, but also some Porsche Cayenne's. Can the V10 Diesel in the Touareg be far behind?

Tangent: Why do you suppose they never offered the 4-TDI in the Tiguan? It seems like such a logical choice for that vehicle.

Apropos of not much at all, I happen to live in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania, and I have to have my cars emissions-checked once a year, in perpetuity. So if I bought one of those Diesels and intended to cheat, I would have to undo the fix every time I took my car in for inspection.
 

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