Increasing Tax Revenue

[Powerman]

Like it or not folks sooner or later our taxes are going to go up. Govt. is spending too much money and we're going to pay for it down the road.

But there are some things we could do to increase tax revenue that wouldn't hurt the working folks as much.

Step1: In an earlier thread I proposed that we should legalize drugs and prostitution. At the very least marijuana should be legalized because it is less harmful than alcohol. So you tax the shit out of these and now you're getting somewhere. Also much of our tax dollars is spent keeping drug trafficers in jail and getting them there in the first place. It's a waste of resources. As long as there are idiots there will be people that do drugs. The demand doesn't lessen by making it illegal to do so, so we might as well get something out of these people while we can. Legalizing drugs would also lead to a reduction in violent crime once again saving us money. There is a lot of money to be made here.

Step 2 : Tax churches. There is no reason they should have tax exempt status. There is a ton of money here as well.

The money has to come from somewhere folks and I'd rather the lowlifes and the bible beaters pick up the tab instead of the working man. That's just my take on it.

 

[insein]

Lower tax rate ALWAYS equals more taxes coming in. Because there are more people paying in when the taxes are lower due to more highering by small business'. Also the incentive for higher income Americans to avoid off shore income loopholes to avoid paying taxes is increased because they dont lose as much money when the tax rates are low.

Here's a generalized summary of the biggest tax cuts of the last century.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Taxes/wm327.cfm

1) Lower tax rates do not mean less tax revenue.

The tax cuts of the 1920s
Tax rates were slashed dramatically during the 1920s, dropping from over 70 percent to less than 25 percent. What happened? Personal income tax revenues increased substantially during the 1920s, despite the reduction in rates. Revenues rose from $719 million in 1921 to $1164 million in 1928, an increase of more than 61 percent.

According to then-Treasury Secretary Andrew Mellon:

The history of taxation shows that taxes which are inherently excessive are not paid. The high rates inevitably put pressure upon the taxpayer to withdraw his capital from productive business and invest it in tax-exempt securities or to find other lawful methods of avoiding the realization of taxable income. The result is that the sources of taxation are drying up; wealth is failing to carry its share of the tax burden; and capital is being diverted into channels which yield neither revenue to the Government nor profit to the people.

The Kennedy tax cuts
President Hoover dramatically increased tax rates in the 1930s and President Roosevelt compounded the damage by pushing marginal tax rates to more than 90 percent. Recognizing that high tax rates were hindering the economy, President Kennedy proposed across-the-board tax rate reductions that reduced the top tax rate from more than 90 percent down to 70 percent. What happened? Tax revenues climbed from $94 billion in 1961 to $153 billion in 1968, an increase of 62 percent (33 percent after adjusting for inflation).

According to President John F. Kennedy:

Our true choice is not between tax reduction, on the one hand, and the avoidance of large Federal deficits on the other. It is increasingly clear that no matter what party is in power, so long as our national security needs keep rising, an economy hampered by restrictive tax rates will never produce enough revenues to balance our budget just as it will never produce enough jobs or enough profits… In short, it is a paradoxical truth that tax rates are too high today and tax revenues are too low and the soundest way to raise the revenues in the long run is to cut the rates now.

The Reagan tax cuts
Thanks to “bracket creep,” the inflation of the 1970s pushed millions of taxpayers into higher tax brackets even though their inflation-adjusted incomes were not rising. To help offset this tax increase and also to improve incentives to work, save, and invest, President Reagan proposed sweeping tax rate reductions during the 1980s. What happened? Total tax revenues climbed by 99.4 percent during the 1980s, and the results are even more impressive when looking at what happened to personal income tax revenues. Once the economy received an unambiguous tax cut in January 1983, income tax revenues climbed dramatically, increasing by more than 54 percent by 1989 (28 percent after adjusting for inflation).

According to then-U.S. Representative Jack Kemp (R-NY), one of the chief architects of the Reagan tax cuts:

At some point, additional taxes so discourage the activity being taxed, such as working or investing, that they yield less revenue rather than more. There are, after all, two rates that yield the same amount of revenue: high tax rates on low production, or low rates on high production.

And now Bush' tax cuts have increased tax revenues by 15% this year.

http://taxes.about.com/b/a/185334.htm

July 13, 2005
Tax Revenues up 14.6% over 2004
Federal tax revenue has increased nearly 15% during 2005, according to a report by the Congressional Budget Office. Many politicans and economist think this will help reduce the federal deficit (Sharp Increase in Tax Revenue Will Pare U.S. Deficit - New York Times). The reason for the big increase? People and businesses are paying more estimated taxes than was expected. In fact, payments by corporations increased over 40%. The federal government has collected $204 billion more in taxes through June 2005 than it did in the same period in 2004. Could it be that the economy improving?

So it seems to me that we are increasing tax revenue without increasing tax rates. Why do you propose "taxing the shit" out of anything in this country. If anything there should be way less taxes on products so consumer's would consume more. This then would increase the products being bought and further drive up tax revenues. Economics 101. People have a set limit for which they can buy, higher, sell an item in order to make a profit. If unneccasarily high taxes cause their price to go up even higher than expected, less people will buy, higher, sell thus decreasing the number of transactions that can be taxed.

Put it this way. So the government is an electronic store. You want to bring in as much revenue as possible. So you think sell the highest end items all the time. However you can only sell so many Plasma tv's because only so many will be able to afford it. Is it better to sell 40 plasma tv's at $10,000 for which only a few people can afford or sell 1000, 32 inch tv's at $500 for which a majority can afford? More people buy in at a lower price. Same works for taxes.

 

[fuzzykitten99]

Lower tax rate ALWAYS equals more taxes coming in. Because there are more people paying in when the taxes are lower due to more highering by small business'. Also the incentive for higher income Americans to avoid off shore income loopholes to avoid paying taxes is increased because they dont lose as much money when the tax rates are low.

Here's a generalized summary of the biggest tax cuts of the last century.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Taxes/wm327.cfm



And now Bush' tax cuts have increased tax revenues by 15% this year.

http://taxes.about.com/b/a/185334.htm



So it seems to me that we are increasing tax revenue without increasing tax rates. Why do you propose "taxing the shit" out of anything in this country. If anything there should be way less taxes on products so consumer's would consume more. This then would increase the products being bought and further drive up tax revenues. Economics 101. People have a set limit for which they can buy, higher, sell an item in order to make a profit. If unneccasarily high taxes cause their price to go up even higher than expected, less people will buy, higher, sell thus decreasing the number of transactions that can be taxed.

Put it this way. So the government is an electronic store. You want to bring in as much revenue as possible. So you think sell the highest end items all the time. However you can only sell so many Plasma tv's because only so many will be able to afford it. Is it better to sell 40 plasma tv's at $10,000 for which only a few people can afford or sell 1000, 32 inch tv's at $500 for which a majority can afford? More people buy in at a lower price. Same works for taxes.

but in liberal's minds, the wealthy people can afford the $10k tv's so the 'store' should sell more of those tv's than the ones that are cheaper.

what i don't understand is if all i can expect from becoming financially independent, or in liberals minds, wealthy, is higher taxes, basically i am being punished for being sucessful. So where's the incentive to get to where i really want to be?

 

[William Joyce]

Like it or not folks sooner or later our taxes are going to go up. Govt. is spending too much money and we're going to pay for it down the road.

But there are some things we could do to increase tax revenue that wouldn't hurt the working folks as much.

Step1: In an earlier thread I proposed that we should legalize drugs and prostitution. At the very least marijuana should be legalized because it is less harmful than alcohol. So you tax the shit out of these and now you're getting somewhere. Also much of our tax dollars is spent keeping drug trafficers in jail and getting them there in the first place. It's a waste of resources. As long as there are idiots there will be people that do drugs. The demand doesn't lessen by making it illegal to do so, so we might as well get something out of these people while we can. Legalizing drugs would also lead to a reduction in violent crime once again saving us money. There is a lot of money to be made here.

Step 2 : Tax churches. There is no reason they should have tax exempt status. There is a ton of money here as well.

The money has to come from somewhere folks and I'd rather the lowlifes and the bible beaters pick up the tab instead of the working man. That's just my take on it.

How about cutting spending instead?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

THis is who powerman is. Y'all. Calls for fiscal conservatism to justiy raising taxes, as if that's the only way to increase revenue. He's a deceiver.

 

[Powerman]

THis is who powerman is. Y'all. Calls for fiscal conservatism to justiy raising taxes, as if that's the only way to increase revenue. He's a deceiver.

No. I'm looking to find alternative avenues to increase tax revenue so that we don't have to put it on the backs of decent hard working americans.

If you legalize weed and tax the shit out of it you start to make up some of your losses. Same with prostitution. You're making money off of crime instead of losing money off of it. It's genius if you ask me.

Looks like William Joyce is consistent though. Let's cut spending. But I see the writing on the wall. I have no confidence in our govt when it comes to cutting spedning. Do you think that they actually will cut spending? Of course not. So if we don't find alternative tax revenue solutions YOU will be paying out the ass for it soon.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

No. I'm looking to find alternative avenues to increase tax revenue so that we don't have to put it on the backs of decent hard working americans.

If you legalize weed and tax the shit out of it you start to make up some of your losses. Same with prostitution. You're making money off of crime instead of losing money off of it. It's genius if you ask me.

Looks like William Joyce is consistent though. Let's cut spending. But I see the writing on the wall. I have no confidence in our govt when it comes to cutting spedning. Do you think that they actually will cut spending? Of course not. So if we don't find alternative tax revenue solutions YOU will be paying out the ass for it soon.

no. You're peddling defeatism, and unsound fiscal policy.

Like it or not folks sooner or later our taxes are going to go up.

We should make tax cuts permanent and never raise them. We should FORCE spending cuts by making tax cuts ILLEGAL. You're a fake.

 

[Powerman]

We should FORCE spending cuts by making tax cuts ILLEGAL. You're a fake.

What fantasy world do you live in? They will never do that. Bush will never do that. They're all big spending fiscal liberals.

 

[insein]

We should make tax cuts permanent and never raise them. We should FORCE spending cuts by making tax cuts ILLEGAL. You're a fake.

Thats how you do it. Force the congressmen to find other ways to spend within a budget. There is no budget with them. Sports teams have a salary cap. They cant spend over it because thats all the money they have to play with to get the players they need. Therefore they have to create ways to get what they need at the bdget they have. Businesses do it everyday. They dont have an endless money supply so they have to get what they need done within certain amount of money they have. They cant cimply raise the costs of their goods because they want to do some more extravagant and costly thing. People wouldnt buy their product and they would go out of business.

Government would have gone out of business years ago if it wasnt for their endless supply of money (taxes) that they can raise on a whim to pay for bullshit. Force them to spend within a REAL budget and then watch all the BS programs go the way of the dodo.

 

[insein]

What fantasy world do you live in? They will never do that. Bush will never do that. They're all big spending fiscal liberals.

Great attitude. Give up now and let the politicians win. They are OUR representitives. The moment we let them forget that is the moment they seize real power. They already spend like drunken sailors. Imagine if they didnt care about getting relelected every 2 to 6 years.

 

[Powerman]

THis is who powerman is. Y'all. Calls for fiscal conservatism to justiy raising taxes, as if that's the only way to increase revenue. He's a deceiver.

I never said that I wanted taxes to be raised. But you can expect them to be raised because of out of control spending. I'd bet you a cool million on it if I had it.

 

[Powerman]

Great attitude. Give up now and let the politicians win. They are OUR representitives. The moment we let them forget that is the moment they seize real power. They already spend like drunken sailors. Imagine if they didnt care about getting relelected every 2 to 6 years.

That's my point. Right wing and his buddies are the ones that are giving Bush a free pass on all of this spending. I'm trying to offer some criticism. He's no better than a liberal as far as govt. spending goes. Your taxes WILL go up within the next 10 years. It doesn't matter who is in office. They're going up in a hurry.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

I never said that I wanted taxes to be raised. But you can expect them to be raised because of out of control spending. I'd bet you a cool million on it if I had it.

It's not inevitable, you're trying to pass off pessimism as a reasoned conclusion. It's very sly as a pr tool. Kudos, to your talents, but my kung fu is fresher! Bush's successor will extend the tax cuts for sure. You should be down for that instead going around like an ass. Or else, you're not really a conservative, but an opportunist, who sees a way to criticize bush. Push your party, the dems to be more conservative. How about that? Quit bugging us.

 

[insein]

That's my point. Right wing and his buddies are the ones that are giving Bush a free pass on all of this spending. I'm trying to offer some criticism. He's no better than a liberal as far as govt. spending goes. Your taxes WILL go up within the next 10 years. It doesn't matter who is in office. They're going up in a hurry.

Criticism without a solution is whining. Telling us the government spends too much is like Saying Michael Moore is Fat. What would be productive is to offer a solution to the problem. Holding the politicians that are up for reelection to the fire is the best we can do. Petitioning the Republicans to put a true Conservative as Majority leader is another thing. Sitting around whining isnt going to do anything.

 

[Powerman]

Criticism without a solution is whining. Telling us the government spends too much is like Saying Michael Moore is Fat. What would be productive is to offer a solution to the problem. Holding the politicians that are up for reelection to the fire is the best we can do. Petitioning the Republicans to put a true Conservative as Majority leader is another thing. Sitting around whining isnt going to do anything.

I agree that the solution should be to petition the republicans to put a true conservative as majority leader or nominate a true conservative for the presidency.

But I'm trying to raise awareness in the meantime. Right wing is acting like it isn't even a problem. And the govt. isn't only spending too much. It's spending WAY too much. It's much worse than we should have expected with republicans controlling everything. They are essentially liberals passing themselves off as conservatives and you're all falling for it.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

I agree that the solution should be to petition the republicans to put a true conservative as majority leader or nominate a true conservative for the presidency.

But I'm trying to raise awareness in the meantime. Right wing is acting like it isn't even a problem. And the govt. isn't only spending too much. It's spending WAY too much. It's much worse than we should have expected with republicans controlling everything. They are essentially liberals passing themselves off as conservatives and you're all falling for it.

But in your "awareness" mongering, you posit tax hikes as the only feasible solution. And that ain't necessarily so. THAT is your singular agenda.

 

[Powerman]

But in your "awareness" mongering, you posit tax hikes as the only feasible solution. And that ain't necessarily so. THAT is your singular agenda.

I don't consider tax hikes a feasible solution. I consider them an unfortunate inevitability as a product of bad spending and the cost of social security and medicare.

 

[5stringJeff]

I don't consider tax hikes a feasible solution. I consider them an unfortunate inevitability as a product of bad spending and the cost of social security and medicare.

To increase the government's bottom line:

1. Cut spending. And I don't just mean non-defense discrestionary. I mean everything. Reform Social Security, which is going bankrupt right now. Reform Medicare and loosen health care regulations. Eliminate farm subsidies. Slash foreign aid and corporate welfare/bailouts. Abolish the Dept. of Education, the NEA, and other programs for which Congress unconstitutionally appropriates money.

2. Cut income tax rates. As has been said before, lower income tax rates = higher income tax revenues. As a part of this, revise all personal and corporate tax codes, and simplify them. Reducing loopholes (raising overall revenues) and cutting tax rates (raising overall revenues) will - surprise - raise overall revenue!

In sum, spend less and take in more while cutting tax rates. Why aren't I President???

 

[insein]

To increase the government's bottom line:

1. Cut spending. And I don't just mean non-defense discrestionary. I mean everything. Reform Social Security, which is going bankrupt right now. Reform Medicare and loosen health care regulations. Eliminate farm subsidies. Slash foreign aid and corporate welfare/bailouts. Abolish the Dept. of Education, the NEA, and other programs for which Congress unconstitutionally appropriates money.

2. Cut income tax rates. As has been said before, lower income tax rates = higher income tax revenues. As a part of this, revise all personal and corporate tax codes, and simplify them. Reducing loopholes (raising overall revenues) and cutting tax rates (raising overall revenues) will - surprise - raise overall revenue!

In sum, spend less and take in more while cutting tax rates. Why aren't I President???

Becuase you'd cause too many people in Washington to lose Billions of dollars a year.

 

[theHawk]

Step1: In an earlier thread I proposed that we should legalize drugs and prostitution. At the very least marijuana should be legalized because it is less harmful than alcohol. So you tax the shit out of these and now you're getting somewhere. Also much of our tax dollars is spent keeping drug trafficers in jail and getting them there in the first place. It's a waste of resources. As long as there are idiots there will be people that do drugs. The demand doesn't lessen by making it illegal to do so, so we might as well get something out of these people while we can. Legalizing drugs would also lead to a reduction in violent crime once again saving us money. There is a lot of money to be made here.

If you're going to collect taxes, then someone has to make a business (that profits) out of it. If your plan is to "tax the hell out of it" then they will just go back to doing it illegally and not report it, hence cannot be taxed. Once its institutionalized, and becomes a great revenue for tax dollars to roll in, the government will not want to lose that revenue either. It would simply run rampant. Just because "there is a lot of money to be made" doesn't make it right either. Why not legalize murder to make money off it? .....oops I forgot about abortion.

Step 2 : Tax churches. There is no reason they should have tax exempt status. There is a ton of money here as well.

The money has to come from somewhere folks and I'd rather the lowlifes and the bible beaters pick up the tab instead of the working man. That's just my take on it.

Why tax them, they do much of the community services and helping people out (which is what socialists like you want from government anyway).
I dont understand why you would call people at churches "lowlifes and biblebeaters"...and I am curious, if the church-goers aren't "working men" themselves...then how would you get tax money from them? And what tab are you talking about?