Illusion vs. Reality: The Rampant Voter Fraud Myth

[Dekster]

Nope they ask for your ID. Even at the bank I have multiple accounts at and everybody who works there knows me, I have to show ID to open an account. They don't make me show it at the window to cash the checks, but for the account opening part they have to have it to scan into the system.

BAh, you act as if keeping voters limited to only American citizens is a good thing or something. That is so last Millenia. /sarc

I'd be fine with permanent resident aliens voting. Probably our best chance to get a viable third party before they get sucked into the Wall Street-Left and Wall-Street-right parties.

 

[Google]

A woman in Dothan, Ala., was sentenced to six months in prison for her part in a voter fraud scheme that got a city commissioner re-elected. She was the second of the four people charged to have been found guilty of voter fraud in the case, which may have involved more than 100 absentee ballots.

Olivia Reynolds found guilty of 24 counts of voter fraud

 

[BULLDOG]

Here is the logic of the left. There are vulnerabilities that compromise the election process. The vulnerabilities could be easily fixed by simply requiring people to prove they are who they are. Ignore the fact that 15 states have had the requirements for decades. When these common sense actions that secure the integrity of American elections are taken they scream bloody murder. Just like earnest attempts to reform broken education systems, the left fights tooth and nail to stop it. Why? Why do they not want to strengthen the integrity of elections?

Could it be that they are the ones that benefit? That they have openly encouraged illegal aliens to vote? That felons who have illegally voted in elections overwhelmingly vote democrat?

I don't know if those things could be, but that's certainly what the right wing is claiming. As usual, they just haven't come up with any proof.

 

[phoenyx]

Here is a good summation of minor issue that voter fraud is:...

The Democratic Party Ward Bosses have been engaging in rampant voter fraud since the early 1800s

I did a little investigating and have realized that the definition of voter fraud is not nearly as clear as I thought it was. I have never argued that there hasn't been a lot of -Electoral- fraud, but now I've come to realize that there is no clear distinction between "Party Ward Bosses" committing electoral fraud and the guy who tries to vote twice in a voting booth. There is -certainly- a lot of evidence for the former, but very little of the latter. There is certainly a -massive- amount of evidence of voter disenfranchisement:
Voter Disenfranchisement

 

[Google]

A state appeals court upheld a ruling voiding a 2013 commission election in Weslaco, Texas, in which dozens of illegal votes were cast in an election won by only 16 votes. The illegal votes included individuals falsely claiming to reside in the city and improper “assistance” that told voters who to vote for—a great example of how even a small amount of fraud can make a difference in close elections.

Controversy over voter fraud continues in Weslaco

 

[Dekster]

I think they should be expanded. Not having a photo ID puts you at such margins of society that enabling people to not be able to carry out most transactions we do every day other than voting is cruel and a disservice to them and society like being able to cash a check at a bank instead of a convenience store that takes a chunk of it.

People don't use convenience stores to cash checks because they don't have ID. They use convenience stores because they don't have bank accounts.

There are places that will still cash your check for free--but you need ID--and to open a bank account the first thing they will ask you for is....wait for it.....your ID.

No the first thing they ask you for is........wait for it.........money, which they don't have.

Nope they ask for your ID. Even at the bank I have multiple accounts at and everybody who works there knows me, I have to show ID to open an account. They don't make me show it at the window to cash the checks, but for the account opening part they have to have it to scan into the system.

Of course they do, but the main reason people can't cash checks for free at the bank is because they don't have a bank account. Poor people can't leave their small amount of money in a bank. It's needed before they get their next check.

Okay, keep grasping. At my bank you have to have $50 to open an account, and after that you only have to keep $1 in it to keep it open. If you can't open an account with $50 and take $49 out in a couple weeks how can you afford to keep paying places to cash your check every month?

 

[BULLDOG]

Bronx politician Hector Ramirez has been arrested after a 242-count grand jury indictment charged him with a massive voter fraud scheme that involved tricking voters into letting Ramirez and his staff illegally vote their absentee ballots. The local prosecutor told the New York Daily Newsthat Ramirez, who lost two prior tries at a state assembly seat, “made a decision that he was not going to lose, under any circumstance.”

So how would a picture ID be able to prevent that? They were absentee ballots.

 

[Google]

In Philadelphia, the setting of the infamous 2008 New Black Panther Party voter intimidation case, four local election officials have been charged with casting multiple votes in the city’s 18th Ward in a precinct in which three of them didn’t even live and were not registered to vote. This case illustrates the importance of poll watchers, because it was a local poll watcher who saw what happened and brought it to the attention of the district attorney’s office. This is the same district attorney, Democrat Seth Williams, who indicted two Democratic state legislators last year for accepting bribes in exchange for voting against a voter ID bill after the Pennsylvania attorney general, Kathleen Kane, also a Democrat, refused to prosecute the case.

In 59 Philadelphia voting divisions, Mitt Romney got zero votes

 

[Google]

On May 7, the Board of Immigration Appeals of the Executive Office for Immigration Review held that a Peruvian citizen who illegally registered and voted could be deported for violating federal law. Margarita Del Pilar became a permanent legal resident of the U.S. in 2004. She promptly applied for an Illinois driver’s license and registered to vote at the same time, then cast a ballot in the 2006 congressional election. When she applied for naturalization in 2007, she admitted in the INS interview that she had voted in an American election. Of course, if she had not applied to become a citizen, she could have continued to illegally vote with almost no chance of being detected.

https://www.justice.gov/file/3835pdf/download

 

[Google]

Every single case of felons voting in elections have favored Democrats. In some instances it cost elections. Voter fraud cost elections. Felons Voting Illegally May Have Put Franken Over the Top in Minnesota, Study Finds | Fox News

 

[Dekster]

In Philadelphia, the setting of the infamous 2008 New Black Panther Party voter intimidation case, four local election officials have been charged with casting multiple votes in the city’s 18th Ward in a precinct in which three of them didn’t even live and were not registered to vote. This case illustrates the importance of poll watchers, because it was a local poll watcher who saw what happened and brought it to the attention of the district attorney’s office. This is the same district attorney, Democrat Seth Williams, who indicted two Democratic state legislators last year for accepting bribes in exchange for voting against a voter ID bill after the Pennsylvania attorney general, Kathleen Kane, also a Democrat, refused to prosecute the case.

In 59 Philadelphia voting divisions, Mitt Romney got zero votes

The problem with those Romney stories is that I have yet to see someone come forward and say "I voted in X place for Romney and they reported him getting no votes there". Sure it is suspicious, but until I see someone do that, I cannot say that it didn't happen.

 

[Google]

York: When 1,099 felons vote in race won by 312 ballots

 

[BULLDOG]

People don't use convenience stores to cash checks because they don't have ID. They use convenience stores because they don't have bank accounts.

There are places that will still cash your check for free--but you need ID--and to open a bank account the first thing they will ask you for is....wait for it.....your ID.

No the first thing they ask you for is........wait for it.........money, which they don't have.

Nope they ask for your ID. Even at the bank I have multiple accounts at and everybody who works there knows me, I have to show ID to open an account. They don't make me show it at the window to cash the checks, but for the account opening part they have to have it to scan into the system.

Of course they do, but the main reason people can't cash checks for free at the bank is because they don't have a bank account. Poor people can't leave their small amount of money in a bank. It's needed before they get their next check.

Okay, keep grasping. At my bank you have to have $50 to open an account, and after that you only have to keep $1 in it to keep it open. If you can't open an account with $50 and take $49 out in a couple weeks how can you afford to keep paying places to cash your check every month?

Just another example of how it costs poor people more to live than people with money. There are lots of ways that poor people are preyed on that others don't even know about. If you have money in your pocket you can get that needed loan at a reasonable interest rate. Without that, you have to use payday lenders who charge multiple times the interest. Everybody doesn't live in a secure middle class world. The plight of the poor is worse than you think.

 

[Google]

In Philadelphia, the setting of the infamous 2008 New Black Panther Party voter intimidation case, four local election officials have been charged with casting multiple votes in the city’s 18th Ward in a precinct in which three of them didn’t even live and were not registered to vote. This case illustrates the importance of poll watchers, because it was a local poll watcher who saw what happened and brought it to the attention of the district attorney’s office. This is the same district attorney, Democrat Seth Williams, who indicted two Democratic state legislators last year for accepting bribes in exchange for voting against a voter ID bill after the Pennsylvania attorney general, Kathleen Kane, also a Democrat, refused to prosecute the case.

In 59 Philadelphia voting divisions, Mitt Romney got zero votes

The problem with those Romney stories is that I have yet to see someone come forward and say "I voted in X place for Romney and they reported him getting no votes there". Sure it is suspicious, but until I see someone do that, I cannot say that it didn't happen.

That link was not for the story. Forget the 59 voting divisions where Mitt Romney got zero votes. Statistically it is questionable. But the paragraph above resulted in convictions of voter fraud.

 

[phoenyx]

A state appeals court upheld a ruling voiding a 2013 commission election in Weslaco, Texas, in which dozens of illegal votes were cast in an election won by only 16 votes. The illegal votes included individuals falsely claiming to reside in the city and improper “assistance” that told voters who to vote for—a great example of how even a small amount of fraud can make a difference in close elections.

Controversy over voter fraud continues in Weslaco

Alright, so we're talking of "dozens" of illegal votes, amoung which some wouldn't have been helped by voter id laws (voter ids would have been no shield against improper "assistance"). Meanwhile:
**Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott (R) spent $1.4 million investigating voter fraud and from 2002 - 2012 brought 311 accusations of voter fraud to the attorney general's office. 57 cases have been resolved, and among these convictions were two cases of voter impersonation - arguably the type of fraud that photo ID laws would prevent.[7][8] More than 8,000,000 votes were cast in Texas in the most recent presidential election.

Legislation to impose restrictive photo ID requirements has been prepared by the conservative organization ALEC and circulated to conservative state legislators.[3]

In 2011, more than 100 Democratic members of Congress urged the Department of Justice to oppose such legislation, arguing that it "has the potential to block millions of eligible American voters, and thus suppress the right to vote."[9]**

Source: Voter suppression in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Further reading:
Getting a photo ID so you can vote is easy. Unless you’re poor, black, Latino or elderly.

Alabama DMV closings draw call for federal voting rights probe

 

[Google]

Here is a good summation of minor issue that voter fraud is:...

The Democratic Party Ward Bosses have been engaging in rampant voter fraud since the early 1800s

I did a little investigating and have realized that the definition of voter fraud is not nearly as clear as I thought it was. I have never argued that there hasn't been a lot of -Electoral- fraud, but now I've come to realize that there is no clear distinction between "Party Ward Bosses" committing electoral fraud and the guy who tries to vote twice in a voting booth. There is -certainly- a lot of evidence for the former, but very little of the latter. There is certainly a -massive- amount of evidence of voter disenfranchisement:
Voter Disenfranchisement

No wonder you are so wrong in the OP, you don't even have a firm understanding of the definition of voter fraud. Just like you naively think showing ID to vote is voter suppression.

 

[Dekster]

In Philadelphia, the setting of the infamous 2008 New Black Panther Party voter intimidation case, four local election officials have been charged with casting multiple votes in the city’s 18th Ward in a precinct in which three of them didn’t even live and were not registered to vote. This case illustrates the importance of poll watchers, because it was a local poll watcher who saw what happened and brought it to the attention of the district attorney’s office. This is the same district attorney, Democrat Seth Williams, who indicted two Democratic state legislators last year for accepting bribes in exchange for voting against a voter ID bill after the Pennsylvania attorney general, Kathleen Kane, also a Democrat, refused to prosecute the case.

In 59 Philadelphia voting divisions, Mitt Romney got zero votes

The problem with those Romney stories is that I have yet to see someone come forward and say "I voted in X place for Romney and they reported him getting no votes there". Sure it is suspicious, but until I see someone do that, I cannot say that it didn't happen.

That link was not for the story. Forget the 59 voting divisions where Mitt Romney got zero votes. Statistically it is questionable. But the paragraph above resulted in convictions of voter fraud.

Okay there was fraud for the democrats but that would not mean there was fraud in Romney getting no votes.

 

[ThoughtCrimes]

No I simply typed it wrong.....counties with over 100% participation = fraud.....and your answer is........

But this is what I responded to back on page #2;

When you have over 100% participation thats called fraud..........when you have more registered voters than actual voters thats fraud.......this is allowed to persist and protected by one party...democrats

So I'll reframe my earlier post to you which you ignored. Let's see if you'll answer it this time!
.
Provide the sources of your claim and at least some listing of the examples you cited where this in person voter fraud occurred. I'm especially interested in the cases of the counties with over 100% participation because that would necessitate the polling persons acting in collusion with the fraudulent voters! Now fucking prove your assertions or apologize for your own fraud!

 

[Dekster]

There are places that will still cash your check for free--but you need ID--and to open a bank account the first thing they will ask you for is....wait for it.....your ID.

No the first thing they ask you for is........wait for it.........money, which they don't have.

Nope they ask for your ID. Even at the bank I have multiple accounts at and everybody who works there knows me, I have to show ID to open an account. They don't make me show it at the window to cash the checks, but for the account opening part they have to have it to scan into the system.

Of course they do, but the main reason people can't cash checks for free at the bank is because they don't have a bank account. Poor people can't leave their small amount of money in a bank. It's needed before they get their next check.

Okay, keep grasping. At my bank you have to have $50 to open an account, and after that you only have to keep $1 in it to keep it open. If you can't open an account with $50 and take $49 out in a couple weeks how can you afford to keep paying places to cash your check every month?

Just another example of how it costs poor people more to live than people with money. There are lots of ways that poor people are preyed on that others don't even know about. If you have money in your pocket you can get that needed loan at a reasonable interest rate. Without that, you have to use payday lenders who charge multiple times the interest. Everybody doesn't live in a secure middle class world. The plight of the poor is worse than you think.

I doubt it is worse than I think and I don't disagree that the poor get preyed upon, but enabling them to not have ID so they can continue to be preyed upon in this regard certainly doesn't help them. It helps the democratic party, which is all they really want, but it certainly doesn't help the poor.

 

[Norman]

Here is a good summation of minor issue that voter fraud is:
**In August, Justin Levitt, a professor at Loyola University Law School, detailed for Wonkblog 31 instances of documented, in-person voter fraud that would have been prevented by stricter rules around identification at the polling place. The most severe instance Levitt outlined involved as many as 24 voters in Brooklyn who tried to vote under assumed names.

There are almost no elections in which 24 votes makes a significant difference, particularly at the federal level. The graph below compares the vote total and the margin of victory for every race with less than a million votes in general elections since 2006.**

Source: The disconnect between voter ID laws and voter fraud

Some more points:
**
Here are some selections from our reporting on the voter fraud myth and the impact of anti-voter-fraud laws:

• The rate of fraud in US elections is close to zero.
• UFO sightings are more common than voter fraud.
• So is getting struck by lightning.
• Florida’s aggressive efforts to root out voter fraud before the 2000 election erroneously purged 12,000 names from the voter rolls—of the 12,000, 44 percent, more than 4,700 voters—were African American. That was more than enough votes to change the outcome of that year's presidential election.
• Native Americans are fighting a slew of high-stakes legal battles over voting rights; many of the lawsuits are linked to rules that were designed to prevent voting fraud.
• Voter ID laws are among a host of hurdles that minorities face when they cast a ballot.
• A national voter ID card could end the debate on voter fraud, but both parties hate that idea.
• GOP presidential contender Ted Cruz's Iowa chairman spent $250,000 to stop people from voting.
• Interestingly, a conservative activist inadvertently demonstrated how hard it is to commit voter fraud.**

Source: 9 facts that blow up the voter fraud myth

I'm interested in hearing constructive views as to the validity of these sources.

I've already been discussing voter fraud in my introduction thread, so I'll be moving my responses to points there into this thread...

Thankfully the democratic party always makes sure that democracy is accomplished in the most transparent possible way. Rigging elections in favor of one candidate would be something they would absolutely never do...

And that's why fraud should be as easy to commit as possible. If no one commits fraud, then why bother with security measures... right?