If Jefferson founded Republican Party in 1793, liberalism has no place in our history

[Votto]

Sad but true, our liberals spied for Stalin's big liberal govt and never had any respect or understanding of Jeffersonian/Madisonian freedom from big liberal govt. In fact, our Constitution was little more than an attempt to make liberalism illegal in America.

You have to understand, that was a different time. The Founding Fathers had no concept of what modern life would bring. Now we have cell phones, so the Constitution should be thrown out the window entirely.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Except that the Republican Party was formed from the ashes of the Whig Party and adopted its primary points, a strong central government, national debt, doling out money from the treasury to favored corporate interests.

Are you talking Jefferson Repubican party or Lincolns??

 

[Votto]

Of course Aristotle believed that the state was all,

actually you mean Plato. If Aristotle believed that I will pay you $10,000. Bet or run away with your liberal tail between your legs

Plato wrote "The Republic". It is essentially Marxism hundreds of years prior to Marx. Plato sets up his perfect utopia where masterminds run the lives of everyone. In this world, people are told what they will eat, drink, who they will marry, what occupation they will attain etc. The citizens will work only for food and board as the Materminds run their lives.

The collectivist ideology is as old as dirt, yet they keep reinventing the wheel. Now they call themselves progressives and everyone else is called a regressive. The truth is, their ideology is so old that it is the most regressive ideology known to man.

 

[JWBooth]

Except that the Republican Party was formed from the ashes of the Whig Party and adopted its primary points, a strong central government, national debt, doling out money from the treasury to favored corporate interests.

Are you talking Jefferson Repubican party or Lincolns??

Are you remotely familiar with history? There was no Whig party to collapse in the 1790s.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Except that the Republican Party was formed from the ashes of the Whig Party and adopted its primary points, a strong central government, national debt, doling out money from the treasury to favored corporate interests.

Are you talking Jefferson Repubican party or Lincolns??

Are you remotely familiar with history? There was no Whig party to collapse in the 1790s.

nobody said there was a whig party to collapse in the 1790's. You are trying to ignore Jefferson's Republican party which held the same philosophy as the modern Republican Party.

Welcome to your first lesson in American history!

 

[regent]

Are you talking Jefferson Repubican party or Lincolns??

Are you remotely familiar with history? There was no Whig party to collapse in the 1790s.

nobody said there was a whig party to collapse in the 1790's. You are trying to ignore Jefferson's Republican party which held the same philosophy as the modern Republican Party.

Welcome to your first lesson in American history!

Poor Ed, he just has never been able to figure out those Republican parties in our history. I think at one time he offered his usual $10,000 reward to prove something about the difference or whatever. His total definition of political ideology seems to be the size of government. In defense of Ed, he does put up a lot of posts that invite response.

 

[kiwiman127]

Here is a little history for Edward from the radical left wing Britannica Encyclopedia:

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/157244/Democratic-Party
Republican Party (political party, United States, 1854-present) -- Encyclopedia Britannica

 

[JWBooth]

Are you talking Jefferson Repubican party or Lincolns??

Are you remotely familiar with history? There was no Whig party to collapse in the 1790s.

nobody said there was a whig party to collapse in the 1790's. You are trying to ignore Jefferson's Republican party which held the same philosophy as the modern Republican Party.

Welcome to your first lesson in American history!

Since all this went beyond your limited comprehension, lets do this at the crayon and big chief tablet level so you (hopefully) can figure it out.
In the 1790's it was the Republicans (nee Democratic Republicans) led by Jefferson and Madison vs the Federalists led by Hamilton and Adams. The Republicans were advocates of decentralized power. The federalists were more inclined toward strong activist national power, and British style merchantilism.
Following so far?
Over the next few years, after some internal disagreements the Republicans evolved into the Democrat party, still advocates of limited central government.
The Federalists faded and rebranded as the Whigs. As Whigs they still pushed for debt, government growth, and mercantilism, now styled as the "American System".
If these big words and concepts confuse we can go back and simplify for you.
By the 1850's the Whigs were a spent force. The Democrats (remember if you can, these folks were rooted in the original Republican Party) still opposed handing the treasury over to corporate looters, government debt, or expanding the powers of the national government.
Still with us?
So from the remains of the Whig Party, and cobbling together some smaller organized groups (Know Nothings), the modern Republican Party was founded. Philosophically nothing changed, strong central government and corporate subsidy their primary goals. One of their primary leaders was an Illinois Senator who had enriched himself as a corporate lobbyist for railroads.
A direct line can be drawn from the modern Democrat party back to Jefferson, though the philosophy of government has changed. The modern Republican owes his roots to Hamilton, Adams, and Clay, and their core philosophy is much as it was in 1856 and 1820.

So far you haven't displayed the knowledge in the subject matter to be offering lessons to amybody.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Of course Aristotle believed that the state was all,

actually you mean Plato. If Aristotle believed that I will pay you $10,000. Bet or run away with your liberal tail between your legs

Alexander the Great and Aristotle - Livius
Livius - Articles on ancient history › ... › ancient Persia › ancient Greece › Alexander
Livius
Alexander was educated by the great philosopher Aristotle of Stagira. ... for it, that as he had received life from the one, so the other had taught him to live well.

You already sent me $10 grand for losing the Jefferson was the founder of the modern day GOP, so you can send me another $10 grand to the same bank account.

Yes, Plato was a statist, which he taught to Aristotle, who used it to teach Alexander.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Except that the Republican Party was formed from the ashes of the Whig Party and adopted its primary points, a strong central government, national debt, doling out money from the treasury to favored corporate interests.

Are you talking Jefferson Repubican party or Lincolns??

Lincoln's GOP.

There was no Jeffersonian republican party that became the GOP of big business and big statism of today.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

A direct line can be drawn from the modern Democrat party back to Jefferson, though the philosophy of government has changed.

got it!!! so a direct line can be drawn back from the modern Democrats to Jefferson's Republicans despite having opposite political philosophies and different names!! The direct line is owning to the color of the socks they wore-right??

Of course, that makes perfect sense now!!

 

[JWBooth]

A direct line can be drawn from the modern Democrat party back to Jefferson, though the philosophy of government has changed.

got it!!! so a direct line can be drawn back from the modern Democrats to Jefferson's Republicans despite having opposite political philosophies and different names!! The direct line is owning to the color of the socks they wore-right??

Of course, that makes perfect sense now!!

So, are you intentionally being obtuse, or are you this dull by nature?
Yes, Jefferson's Republicans devolved into FDR's Democrats. Shit happens. What is so tough to comprehend about it?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

A direct line can be drawn from the modern Democrat party back to Jefferson, though the philosophy of government has changed.

got it!!! so a direct line can be drawn back from the modern Democrats to Jefferson's Republicans despite having opposite political philosophies and different names!! The direct line is owning to the color of the socks they wore-right??

Of course, that makes perfect sense now!!

So, are you intentionally being obtuse, or are you this dull by nature?
Yes, Jefferson's Republicans devolved into FDR's Democrats. Shit happens. What is so tough to comprehend about it?

as long as you agree that today's Republicans were at the founding in name and philosphy with Jefferson and Madison while today's Democrats were not at the founding in either name or philosophy. In fact, today's Democrats can trace their origins to Marx whcih explains why they spied for Stalin and elected Obama who had 3 communist parents and voted to left of Bernnie Sanders.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Jefferson and Madison were not for big business, big banks, and lack of civil liberties as are the Republicans today, yes, Edward, you have it right.

 

[JWBooth]

got it!!! so a direct line can be drawn back from the modern Democrats to Jefferson's Republicans despite having opposite political philosophies and different names!! The direct line is owning to the color of the socks they wore-right??

Of course, that makes perfect sense now!!

So, are you intentionally being obtuse, or are you this dull by nature?
Yes, Jefferson's Republicans devolved into FDR's Democrats. Shit happens. What is so tough to comprehend about it?

as long as you agree that today's Republicans were at the founding in name and philosphy with Jefferson and Madison while today's Democrats were not at the founding in either name or philosophy. In fact, today's Democrats can trace their origins to Marx whcih explains why they spied for Stalin and elected Obama who had 3 communist parents and voted to left of Bernnie Sanders.

As it is the intentionally obtuse course that you have set for yourself, I have found nothing in your intellectually vacant and historically inaccurate musings with which to agree.

One might as well tie the Republican Party of Spain in the late 1800's to Jefferson's party with equal accuracy using your reasoning, as they share the same name.
Your modern Republicans are as alike the party of Jefferson as wheat is to crabgrass. Modern Republicans are truly the party of Lincoln, centralised power, government indebtedness, empire building, and a direct line from the treasury to corporate boardrooms.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

One might as well tie the Republican Party of Spain in the late 1800's to Jefferson's party with equal accuracy using your reasoning, as they share the same name.

of course I said they share the same name and political philosophy. Have you become a liar as you begin to lose the debate?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Modern Republicans are truly the party of Lincoln, centralised power, government.

of course if that was true Ted Cruz Rand Paul Wm Buckley Barry Goldwater Reagan Milton Friedman etcetc would not be or have been Republicans, they would have been Democrats.

Feeling silly now?

 

[JakeStarkey]

If Jefferson founded Republican Party in 1793, liberalism has no place in our history has been proven false. Let's close the thread.

 

[JakeStarkey]

One might as well tie the Republican Party of Spain in the late 1800's to Jefferson's party with equal accuracy using your reasoning, as they share the same name.

of course I said they share the same name and political philosophy. Have you become a liar as you begin to lose the debate?

Neither the party of 1793 nor the modern GOP share the same political philosophy.

The GOP today supports welfare, a form of regulated business, weak civil liberties, strong powerful statist government.

In what world do you live?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Modern Republicans are truly the party of Lincoln, centralised power, government.

of course if that was true Ted Cruz Rand Paul Wm Buckley Barry Goldwater Reagan Milton Friedman etcetc would not be or have been Republicans, they would have been Democrats. Feeling silly now?

You are trolling.