I Wish, When It Matters, Politicians Will Not Listen To What The American People Have To Say

[Billy000]

Obama's plan on ISIS reminded me just how dumb the American people are. I like Obama, but anyone with a moderate amount of intelligence knows that he is bullshitting the American people on this issue. There is no way airstrikes alone will defeat ISIS. If they are to be defeated, it will require a full scale war. Whether or not we should launch a full scale war is a separate issue however. His speech was simply an attempt to placate the American people who do not want boots on the ground. The truth is Obama and the Pentagon know full well a full scale war is what would be needed.

This issue isn't really my point so much. It is a part of a broad point which is that Americans are stupid. Americans, on average, are not smart enough to understand issues like war strategy, economics, and geo politics. It pisses me off that our politicians come up with bullshit solutions to our nation's problems that simply sound good to the American people. They are solutions that the American people can easily understand but, in reality, are not good solutions.

When it comes to fixing complex problems, politicians need to stop listening to what the American people think and listen to what educated experts say about them. Let's break down some examples of solutions that work yet Americans hate so our politicians don't do them.

To pay down the debt, we need to cut spending AND raise taxes, not cut them.

To create jobs, tax cuts are not the solution. Tax cuts, especially the ones for the wealthy, do very little to stimulate economic growth. They do more to add to our national debt than they do let business grow. I know it SOUNDS like it makes sense to cut taxes, but facts and reality say otherwise.

I know it SOUNDS like it makes sense to enact huge and broad spending cuts, but in reality, when it comes to cutting spending (which in itself is important), these cuts must be carefully selected and analyzed. This is something the tea baggers can't seem to grasp. When it comes to cutting spending, a scapel is needed - not a lazy sledgehammer.

I think back to the 2012 election. Both Romney and Obama ran on the issue of paying down the debt. They both came up with easy to understand strategies for doing this, but experts dismissed both strategies as being unrealistic.

"To create jobs, tax cuts are not the solution... but facts and reality say otherwise."
You make the generalization without substantiation.... check the facts first!
Now for the FACTS:
First Deal with the realities of the last MAJOR tax cuts by Bush.

1) Do YOU agree a recession started under Clinton and became official 3/01 ended 11/01?
Source: USATODAY.com - It s official 2001 recession only lasted eight months

2) Do YOU agree that the dot.com bust occurred and cost $5 trillion in losses?
According to the Los Angeles Times, when the dot-com bubble burst, it wiped out $5 trillion dollars in market value for tech companies. More than half of the Internet companies created since 1995 were gone by 2004 - and hundreds of thousands of skilled technology workers were out of jobs.
Source: The dot-com bubble How to lose 5 trillion 8211 Anderson Cooper 360 - CNN.com Blogs

3) Hard to believe but people forget that 9/11 cost $2 trillion in lost businesses,market values assets.
Jobs lost in New York owing to the attacks: 146,100 JUST in New York.
Year 2001: September 11 Terrorist Attacks
The 9/11 terrorist attacks were the events that helped shape other financial events of the decade. After that terrible day in September 2001, our economic climate was never to be the same again. It was only the third time in history that the New York Stock Exchange was shut down for a period of time. In this case, it was closed from September 10 - 17. Besides the tragic human loss of that day, the economic loss cannot even be estimated. Some estimate that there was over $60 billion in insurance losses alone.
Approximately 18,000 small businesses were either displaced or destroyed in Lower Manhattan after the Twin Towers fell. There was a buildup in homeland security on all levels. 9/11 caused a catastrophic financial loss for the U.S.
Source: The Top 10 Financial Events of the Decade

4) $1 trillion in written off losses due to the WORST Hurricane SEASONS in history.
The worst Katrina made landfall in Louisiana as a Category 3 in 2005. It took 1,836 lives and caused $81.2 billion in damages. Andrew slammed into South Florida in 1992 as a Category 5. It caused 40 deaths and $30 billion in property damage. More than 250,000 people were left homeless and 82,000 businesses were destroyed or damaged.
Hurricane Katrina ALONE! Year 2005: Hurricanes Katrina and Rita
On August 25, 2005, Hurricane Katrina hit the Gulf Coast of the U.S. as a strong Category 3 or low Category 4 storm. It quickly became the biggest natural disaster in U.S. history, almost destroying New Orleans due to severe flooding.
The Top 10 Financial Events of the Decade

THESE events OCCURRED!
YET in SPITE of a) 400,000 jobs due to Hurricanes Katrina/Rita , b) 2,800,000 jobs in alone due to 9/11,
c) 300,000 jobs lost due to dot.com busts...
In spite of nearly $8 trillion in lost businesses, market values, destroyed property.. IN SPITE of that:

AFTER the tax cuts Federal Tax REVENUES Increased an average of 9.78% per year!!!
Government Revenue Details Federal State Local for 2008 - Charts

Year	revenue(billions)	increase/ decrease	Change	Reason
2000	$1,211
2001	$1,145	-$ 66	-5.47%	-- remember Wall street closed, no flights 3 days destructions!
2002	$1,006	-$139	-12.14%	In spite of dot.com/911 losses tax writes offs..
2003	$ 926	-$ 81	-8.04%	dot.com/911 losses tax write offs
2004	$ 998	$ 73 up!	7.87% ^	Tax cuts STARTED.. in spite of tax revenues UP!
2005	$1,206	$207 up!	20.76%^	Again tax cuts in play.. REVENUES UP!!!
2006	$1,398	$192 UP!	15.95%^	AGAIN tax cuts but REVENUES UP!!!
2007	$1,534	$136 UP!	9.72%^	Again tax cuts BUT revenues UP!!!
2008	$1,450	-$ 84	- 5.45%	$500 billion pulled out of MMF on 9/18/08 in 2 hours!

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

So with ALL these above FACTS substantiated with sources AGAIN...
Tell me where TAX revenues decreased BECAUSE of TAX CUTS?????
AND please once and for all why not admit the above events had a DIRECT relationship to tax revenues!

I find it hilarious you didn't even mention the Great Recession which began in the last 4 months of Bush's presidency. We lost 3 million jobs in Bush's last few months. We lost 5 million more in the first 6 months of 2009 which were directly connected to the same financial crisis. You are a disingenuous goon and you know it.

Bush's tax cuts created 4.6 jobs per million dollar cut. That's it.

Because dimwits took control of congress.

Oh right. Gee how convenient it. It was the dems. Just the dems. The president, a lack of financial regulation on multiple levels had absolutely nothing to do with it.

You people are pathetic.

 

[healthmyths]

Obama's plan on ISIS reminded me just how dumb the American people are. I like Obama, but anyone with a moderate amount of intelligence knows that he is bullshitting the American people on this issue. There is no way airstrikes alone will defeat ISIS. If they are to be defeated, it will require a full scale war. Whether or not we should launch a full scale war is a separate issue however. His speech was simply an attempt to placate the American people who do not want boots on the ground. The truth is Obama and the Pentagon know full well a full scale war is what would be needed.

This issue isn't really my point so much. It is a part of a broad point which is that Americans are stupid. Americans, on average, are not smart enough to understand issues like war strategy, economics, and geo politics. It pisses me off that our politicians come up with bullshit solutions to our nation's problems that simply sound good to the American people. They are solutions that the American people can easily understand but, in reality, are not good solutions.

When it comes to fixing complex problems, politicians need to stop listening to what the American people think and listen to what educated experts say about them. Let's break down some examples of solutions that work yet Americans hate so our politicians don't do them.

To pay down the debt, we need to cut spending AND raise taxes, not cut them.

To create jobs, tax cuts are not the solution. Tax cuts, especially the ones for the wealthy, do very little to stimulate economic growth. They do more to add to our national debt than they do let business grow. I know it SOUNDS like it makes sense to cut taxes, but facts and reality say otherwise.

I know it SOUNDS like it makes sense to enact huge and broad spending cuts, but in reality, when it comes to cutting spending (which in itself is important), these cuts must be carefully selected and analyzed. This is something the tea baggers can't seem to grasp. When it comes to cutting spending, a scapel is needed - not a lazy sledgehammer.

I think back to the 2012 election. Both Romney and Obama ran on the issue of paying down the debt. They both came up with easy to understand strategies for doing this, but experts dismissed both strategies as being unrealistic.

"To create jobs, tax cuts are not the solution... but facts and reality say otherwise."
You make the generalization without substantiation.... check the facts first!
Now for the FACTS:
First Deal with the realities of the last MAJOR tax cuts by Bush.

1) Do YOU agree a recession started under Clinton and became official 3/01 ended 11/01?
Source: USATODAY.com - It s official 2001 recession only lasted eight months

2) Do YOU agree that the dot.com bust occurred and cost $5 trillion in losses?
According to the Los Angeles Times, when the dot-com bubble burst, it wiped out $5 trillion dollars in market value for tech companies. More than half of the Internet companies created since 1995 were gone by 2004 - and hundreds of thousands of skilled technology workers were out of jobs.
Source: The dot-com bubble How to lose 5 trillion 8211 Anderson Cooper 360 - CNN.com Blogs

3) Hard to believe but people forget that 9/11 cost $2 trillion in lost businesses,market values assets.
Jobs lost in New York owing to the attacks: 146,100 JUST in New York.
Year 2001: September 11 Terrorist Attacks
The 9/11 terrorist attacks were the events that helped shape other financial events of the decade. After that terrible day in September 2001, our economic climate was never to be the same again. It was only the third time in history that the New York Stock Exchange was shut down for a period of time. In this case, it was closed from September 10 - 17. Besides the tragic human loss of that day, the economic loss cannot even be estimated. Some estimate that there was over $60 billion in insurance losses alone.
Approximately 18,000 small businesses were either displaced or destroyed in Lower Manhattan after the Twin Towers fell. There was a buildup in homeland security on all levels. 9/11 caused a catastrophic financial loss for the U.S.
Source: The Top 10 Financial Events of the Decade

4) $1 trillion in written off losses due to the WORST Hurricane SEASONS in history.
The worst Katrina made landfall in Louisiana as a Category 3 in 2005. It took 1,836 lives and caused $81.2 billion in damages. Andrew slammed into South Florida in 1992 as a Category 5. It caused 40 deaths and $30 billion in property damage. More than 250,000 people were left homeless and 82,000 businesses were destroyed or damaged.
Hurricane Katrina ALONE! Year 2005: Hurricanes Katrina and Rita
On August 25, 2005, Hurricane Katrina hit the Gulf Coast of the U.S. as a strong Category 3 or low Category 4 storm. It quickly became the biggest natural disaster in U.S. history, almost destroying New Orleans due to severe flooding.
The Top 10 Financial Events of the Decade

THESE events OCCURRED!
YET in SPITE of a) 400,000 jobs due to Hurricanes Katrina/Rita , b) 2,800,000 jobs in alone due to 9/11,
c) 300,000 jobs lost due to dot.com busts...
In spite of nearly $8 trillion in lost businesses, market values, destroyed property.. IN SPITE of that:

AFTER the tax cuts Federal Tax REVENUES Increased an average of 9.78% per year!!!
Government Revenue Details Federal State Local for 2008 - Charts

Year	revenue(billions)	increase/ decrease	Change	Reason
2000	$1,211
2001	$1,145	-$ 66	-5.47%	-- remember Wall street closed, no flights 3 days destructions!
2002	$1,006	-$139	-12.14%	In spite of dot.com/911 losses tax writes offs..
2003	$ 926	-$ 81	-8.04%	dot.com/911 losses tax write offs
2004	$ 998	$ 73 up!	7.87% ^	Tax cuts STARTED.. in spite of tax revenues UP!
2005	$1,206	$207 up!	20.76%^	Again tax cuts in play.. REVENUES UP!!!
2006	$1,398	$192 UP!	15.95%^	AGAIN tax cuts but REVENUES UP!!!
2007	$1,534	$136 UP!	9.72%^	Again tax cuts BUT revenues UP!!!
2008	$1,450	-$ 84	- 5.45%	$500 billion pulled out of MMF on 9/18/08 in 2 hours!

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

So with ALL these above FACTS substantiated with sources AGAIN...
Tell me where TAX revenues decreased BECAUSE of TAX CUTS?????
AND please once and for all why not admit the above events had a DIRECT relationship to tax revenues!

I find it hilarious you didn't even mention the Great Recession which began in the last 4 months of Bush's presidency. We lost 3 million jobs in Bush's last few months. We lost 5 million more in the first 6 months of 2009 which were directly connected to the same financial crisis. You are a disingenuous goon and you know it.

Bush's tax cuts created 4.6 jobs per million dollar cut. That's it.

Why should I mention something that idiots like YOU have NO KNOWLEDGE of how it began!
WHERE ARE YOUR facts though as I did substantiating MY statements?
NO where?
WHAT the f...k right do YOU have calling me a "goon" when idiots like you can't EVEN admit that
the 4 MAJOR DEVASTATING events which just ONE would have been totally debilitating to idiots like you to handle!
As far as the "financial crisis" idiot... are you aware of the economic terrorist attack done on
9/18/08???
HERE ARE THE FACTS you dummy that precipitated this major issue...!
1) Community Re-Investment-Act encourage higher risk loans! Understand?
2) Most of the CRA loans were backed by Fannie/Freddie? Proof?
Banks re-packaged and sold with Fannie/Freddie Using CDswaps banks could unload the sub-prime loans by having Fannie/Freddie securitizing them as explained in this statement:
Oct. 23,2008 (Bloomberg) -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have an "effective'' federal guarantee, not the "full faith and credit'' of the U.S. government, Federal Housing Finance Agency Director James Lockhart said after the hearing. That does give them effectively a guarantee of the U.S. government.''
Lockhart s Fannie Freddie Guarantee Remarks Stir Up Confusion - Bloomberg

GWB's administration was LAUGHED AT BY Democrats Frank and Dodd after 17 times trying to get Fannie/Freddie fixed!
"Over the past six years, the President and his Administration have not only warned of the systemic consequences of failure to reform GSEs but also put forward thoughtful plans to reduce the risk that either Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac would encounter such difficulties.
President Bush publicly called for GSE reform at least 17 times in 2008 alone before Congress acted.
Unfortunately, these warnings went unheeded, as the President's repeated attempts to reform the supervision of these entities were thwarted by the legislative maneuvering of those who emphatically denied there were problems.
Setting the Record Straight The Three Most Egregious Claims In The New York Times Article On The Housing Crisis

Many prominent Democrats, including House Finance Chairman Barney Frank, opposed any legislation correcting the risks posed by GSEs.
* House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank (D-MA) criticized
the President's warning saying:
"these two entities - Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac - are not facing any kind of financial crisis .The more people exaggerate these problems,
the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."...
(Stephen Labaton, "New Agency Proposed To Oversee Freddie Mac And Fannie Mae," New York Times, 9/11/03)

* Senate Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Chairman Christopher Dodd also ignored the President's warnings and called on him to "immediately reconsider his ill-advised" position. Eric Dash, "Fannie Mae's Offer To Help Ease Credit Squeeze Is Rejected, As Critics Complain Of Opportunism," New York Times, 8/11/07)

Barney Frank s Fannie and Freddie Muddle - US News
So over the years these subprime loans came to a head on 9/18/2008 again NOT mentioned widely by the biased MSM and I'm sure YOU've NEVER heard about this!

September 18, 2008: Edge of Collapse
"The collapse revelation came a few days ago from Rep. Paul Kanjorski (D-Pennsylvania) when he was interviewed on C-Span.
On Thursday [the 18th], at about 11 o’clock in the morning, the Federal Reserve noticed a tremendous drawdown of money market accounts in the United States to a tune of $550 billion being drawn out in a matter of an hour or two.

The Treasury opened up its window to help.
They pumped $105 billion into the system and quickly realized that they could not stem the tide.
We were having an electronic run on the banks.
They decided to close the operation, close down the money accounts, and announce a guarantee of $250,000 per account so there wouldn’t be further panic and there.
And that’s what actually happened.
If they had not done that their estimation was that by two o’clock that afternoon, $5.5 trillion would have been drawn out of the money market system of the United States, would have collapsed the entire economy of the United States, and within 24 hours the world economy would have collapsed.
September 18 2008 Edge of Collapse - Daily Reckoning

NOW idiots like YOU blaming Bush for something started in Jimmy Carter' time, blown out of proportion by Clinton and like all other crisis started by those idiots... Bush had to fix!

Here is where your stupidity comes into play fully. To say that Fannie and Freddie alone caused the financial crisis is absolutely ridiculous. It was a variety of factors. In fact, the crisis wouldn't have even happened if it was just about Fannie and Freddie. It was a lack of financial regulation on several levels. Income inequality also played a role.

How convenient you blame this all on dems yet give no blame to Bush.

Hey... I'm an honest person that when there is BLAME for Bush for MAJOR MAJOR economic issues I would blame... BUT so far idiots like you don't seem to recognize the realities of the 4 major gigantic events that Bush HAD to respond TO! He had NOTHING to do with the dot.com bust, the recession
the 9/11 and obviously unlike you who thinks Obama is the Messiah he couldn't have prevented the worst hurricane seasons that NO president ever faced!
YET YOU idiots ignore ALL those events!
AND then you idiots blame Bush for Iraq liberation which HE Didn't start...he just finished!
And you idiots don't even know 1/10th of how bad the MSM and traitors like you had in prolonging Iraq
by encouraging the terrorists with your comments like our dick president did:
"our military is air raiding villages, killing civilians"! Statements like these HELPEd the terrorists kill more
US troops and you idiots completely encourage that!
So you tell me WHAT major economic/social/political event that was the caused by Bush?
NONE... Yet idiots like you continue to BASH the guy who actually kept the USA together!!!

You idiot you're the one that brought up dot com and the recession in 2001. What the fuck are you talking about?

GEEZ how stupid! Recessions and dot.com bust DID NOT JUST happen in one day! Dumb f...k!
It started under Clinton.. THE FACTS are this dummy:

1) Do YOU agree a recession started under Clinton and became official 3/01 ended 11/01?
Source:USATODAY.com - It s official 2001 recession only lasted eight months

2)Dot com bust STARTED under clinton!
The dot-com bubble How to lose 5 trillion 8211 Anderson Cooper 360 - CNN.com Blogs

 

[Billy000]

Dude

Obama's plan on ISIS reminded me just how dumb the American people are. I like Obama, but anyone with a moderate amount of intelligence knows that he is bullshitting the American people on this issue. There is no way airstrikes alone will defeat ISIS. If they are to be defeated, it will require a full scale war. Whether or not we should launch a full scale war is a separate issue however. His speech was simply an attempt to placate the American people who do not want boots on the ground. The truth is Obama and the Pentagon know full well a full scale war is what would be needed.

This issue isn't really my point so much. It is a part of a broad point which is that Americans are stupid. Americans, on average, are not smart enough to understand issues like war strategy, economics, and geo politics. It pisses me off that our politicians come up with bullshit solutions to our nation's problems that simply sound good to the American people. They are solutions that the American people can easily understand but, in reality, are not good solutions.

When it comes to fixing complex problems, politicians need to stop listening to what the American people think and listen to what educated experts say about them. Let's break down some examples of solutions that work yet Americans hate so our politicians don't do them.

To pay down the debt, we need to cut spending AND raise taxes, not cut them.

To create jobs, tax cuts are not the solution. Tax cuts, especially the ones for the wealthy, do very little to stimulate economic growth. They do more to add to our national debt than they do let business grow. I know it SOUNDS like it makes sense to cut taxes, but facts and reality say otherwise.

I know it SOUNDS like it makes sense to enact huge and broad spending cuts, but in reality, when it comes to cutting spending (which in itself is important), these cuts must be carefully selected and analyzed. This is something the tea baggers can't seem to grasp. When it comes to cutting spending, a scapel is needed - not a lazy sledgehammer.

I think back to the 2012 election. Both Romney and Obama ran on the issue of paying down the debt. They both came up with easy to understand strategies for doing this, but experts dismissed both strategies as being unrealistic.

"To create jobs, tax cuts are not the solution... but facts and reality say otherwise."
You make the generalization without substantiation.... check the facts first!
Now for the FACTS:
First Deal with the realities of the last MAJOR tax cuts by Bush.

1) Do YOU agree a recession started under Clinton and became official 3/01 ended 11/01?
Source: USATODAY.com - It s official 2001 recession only lasted eight months

2) Do YOU agree that the dot.com bust occurred and cost $5 trillion in losses?
According to the Los Angeles Times, when the dot-com bubble burst, it wiped out $5 trillion dollars in market value for tech companies. More than half of the Internet companies created since 1995 were gone by 2004 - and hundreds of thousands of skilled technology workers were out of jobs.
Source: The dot-com bubble How to lose 5 trillion 8211 Anderson Cooper 360 - CNN.com Blogs

3) Hard to believe but people forget that 9/11 cost $2 trillion in lost businesses,market values assets.
Jobs lost in New York owing to the attacks: 146,100 JUST in New York.
Year 2001: September 11 Terrorist Attacks
The 9/11 terrorist attacks were the events that helped shape other financial events of the decade. After that terrible day in September 2001, our economic climate was never to be the same again. It was only the third time in history that the New York Stock Exchange was shut down for a period of time. In this case, it was closed from September 10 - 17. Besides the tragic human loss of that day, the economic loss cannot even be estimated. Some estimate that there was over $60 billion in insurance losses alone.
Approximately 18,000 small businesses were either displaced or destroyed in Lower Manhattan after the Twin Towers fell. There was a buildup in homeland security on all levels. 9/11 caused a catastrophic financial loss for the U.S.
Source: The Top 10 Financial Events of the Decade

4) $1 trillion in written off losses due to the WORST Hurricane SEASONS in history.
The worst Katrina made landfall in Louisiana as a Category 3 in 2005. It took 1,836 lives and caused $81.2 billion in damages. Andrew slammed into South Florida in 1992 as a Category 5. It caused 40 deaths and $30 billion in property damage. More than 250,000 people were left homeless and 82,000 businesses were destroyed or damaged.
Hurricane Katrina ALONE! Year 2005: Hurricanes Katrina and Rita
On August 25, 2005, Hurricane Katrina hit the Gulf Coast of the U.S. as a strong Category 3 or low Category 4 storm. It quickly became the biggest natural disaster in U.S. history, almost destroying New Orleans due to severe flooding.
The Top 10 Financial Events of the Decade

THESE events OCCURRED!
YET in SPITE of a) 400,000 jobs due to Hurricanes Katrina/Rita , b) 2,800,000 jobs in alone due to 9/11,
c) 300,000 jobs lost due to dot.com busts...
In spite of nearly $8 trillion in lost businesses, market values, destroyed property.. IN SPITE of that:

AFTER the tax cuts Federal Tax REVENUES Increased an average of 9.78% per year!!!
Government Revenue Details Federal State Local for 2008 - Charts

Year	revenue(billions)	increase/ decrease	Change	Reason
2000	$1,211
2001	$1,145	-$ 66	-5.47%	-- remember Wall street closed, no flights 3 days destructions!
2002	$1,006	-$139	-12.14%	In spite of dot.com/911 losses tax writes offs..
2003	$ 926	-$ 81	-8.04%	dot.com/911 losses tax write offs
2004	$ 998	$ 73 up!	7.87% ^	Tax cuts STARTED.. in spite of tax revenues UP!
2005	$1,206	$207 up!	20.76%^	Again tax cuts in play.. REVENUES UP!!!
2006	$1,398	$192 UP!	15.95%^	AGAIN tax cuts but REVENUES UP!!!
2007	$1,534	$136 UP!	9.72%^	Again tax cuts BUT revenues UP!!!
2008	$1,450	-$ 84	- 5.45%	$500 billion pulled out of MMF on 9/18/08 in 2 hours!

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

So with ALL these above FACTS substantiated with sources AGAIN...
Tell me where TAX revenues decreased BECAUSE of TAX CUTS?????
AND please once and for all why not admit the above events had a DIRECT relationship to tax revenues!

I find it hilarious you didn't even mention the Great Recession which began in the last 4 months of Bush's presidency. We lost 3 million jobs in Bush's last few months. We lost 5 million more in the first 6 months of 2009 which were directly connected to the same financial crisis. You are a disingenuous goon and you know it.

Bush's tax cuts created 4.6 jobs per million dollar cut. That's it.

Why should I mention something that idiots like YOU have NO KNOWLEDGE of how it began!
WHERE ARE YOUR facts though as I did substantiating MY statements?
NO where?
WHAT the f...k right do YOU have calling me a "goon" when idiots like you can't EVEN admit that
the 4 MAJOR DEVASTATING events which just ONE would have been totally debilitating to idiots like you to handle!
As far as the "financial crisis" idiot... are you aware of the economic terrorist attack done on
9/18/08???
HERE ARE THE FACTS you dummy that precipitated this major issue...!
1) Community Re-Investment-Act encourage higher risk loans! Understand?
2) Most of the CRA loans were backed by Fannie/Freddie? Proof?
Banks re-packaged and sold with Fannie/Freddie Using CDswaps banks could unload the sub-prime loans by having Fannie/Freddie securitizing them as explained in this statement:
Oct. 23,2008 (Bloomberg) -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have an "effective'' federal guarantee, not the "full faith and credit'' of the U.S. government, Federal Housing Finance Agency Director James Lockhart said after the hearing. That does give them effectively a guarantee of the U.S. government.''
Lockhart s Fannie Freddie Guarantee Remarks Stir Up Confusion - Bloomberg

GWB's administration was LAUGHED AT BY Democrats Frank and Dodd after 17 times trying to get Fannie/Freddie fixed!
"Over the past six years, the President and his Administration have not only warned of the systemic consequences of failure to reform GSEs but also put forward thoughtful plans to reduce the risk that either Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac would encounter such difficulties.
President Bush publicly called for GSE reform at least 17 times in 2008 alone before Congress acted.
Unfortunately, these warnings went unheeded, as the President's repeated attempts to reform the supervision of these entities were thwarted by the legislative maneuvering of those who emphatically denied there were problems.
Setting the Record Straight The Three Most Egregious Claims In The New York Times Article On The Housing Crisis

Many prominent Democrats, including House Finance Chairman Barney Frank, opposed any legislation correcting the risks posed by GSEs.
* House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank (D-MA) criticized
the President's warning saying:
"these two entities - Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac - are not facing any kind of financial crisis .The more people exaggerate these problems,
the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."...
(Stephen Labaton, "New Agency Proposed To Oversee Freddie Mac And Fannie Mae," New York Times, 9/11/03)

* Senate Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Chairman Christopher Dodd also ignored the President's warnings and called on him to "immediately reconsider his ill-advised" position. Eric Dash, "Fannie Mae's Offer To Help Ease Credit Squeeze Is Rejected, As Critics Complain Of Opportunism," New York Times, 8/11/07)

Barney Frank s Fannie and Freddie Muddle - US News
So over the years these subprime loans came to a head on 9/18/2008 again NOT mentioned widely by the biased MSM and I'm sure YOU've NEVER heard about this!

September 18, 2008: Edge of Collapse
"The collapse revelation came a few days ago from Rep. Paul Kanjorski (D-Pennsylvania) when he was interviewed on C-Span.
On Thursday [the 18th], at about 11 o’clock in the morning, the Federal Reserve noticed a tremendous drawdown of money market accounts in the United States to a tune of $550 billion being drawn out in a matter of an hour or two.

The Treasury opened up its window to help.
They pumped $105 billion into the system and quickly realized that they could not stem the tide.
We were having an electronic run on the banks.
They decided to close the operation, close down the money accounts, and announce a guarantee of $250,000 per account so there wouldn’t be further panic and there.
And that’s what actually happened.
If they had not done that their estimation was that by two o’clock that afternoon, $5.5 trillion would have been drawn out of the money market system of the United States, would have collapsed the entire economy of the United States, and within 24 hours the world economy would have collapsed.
September 18 2008 Edge of Collapse - Daily Reckoning

NOW idiots like YOU blaming Bush for something started in Jimmy Carter' time, blown out of proportion by Clinton and like all other crisis started by those idiots... Bush had to fix!

Here is where your stupidity comes into play fully. To say that Fannie and Freddie alone caused the financial crisis is absolutely ridiculous. It was a variety of factors. In fact, the crisis wouldn't have even happened if it was just about Fannie and Freddie. It was a lack of financial regulation on several levels. Income inequality also played a role.

How convenient you blame this all on dems yet give no blame to Bush.

Hey... I'm an honest person that when there is BLAME for Bush for MAJOR MAJOR economic issues I would blame... BUT so far idiots like you don't seem to recognize the realities of the 4 major gigantic events that Bush HAD to respond TO! He had NOTHING to do with the dot.com bust, the recession
the 9/11 and obviously unlike you who thinks Obama is the Messiah he couldn't have prevented the worst hurricane seasons that NO president ever faced!
YET YOU idiots ignore ALL those events!
AND then you idiots blame Bush for Iraq liberation which HE Didn't start...he just finished!
And you idiots don't even know 1/10th of how bad the MSM and traitors like you had in prolonging Iraq
by encouraging the terrorists with your comments like our dick president did:
"our military is air raiding villages, killing civilians"! Statements like these HELPEd the terrorists kill more
US troops and you idiots completely encourage that!
So you tell me WHAT major economic/social/political event that was the caused by Bush?
NONE... Yet idiots like you continue to BASH the guy who actually kept the USA together!!!

You idiot you're the one that brought up dot com and the recession in 2001. What the fuck are you talking about?

GEEZ how stupid! Recessions and dot.com bust DID NOT JUST happen in one day! Dumb f...k!
It started under Clinton.. THE FACTS are this dummy:

1) Do YOU agree a recession started under Clinton and became official 3/01 ended 11/01?
Source:USATODAY.com - It s official 2001 recession only lasted eight months

2)Dot com bust STARTED under clinton!
The dot-com bubble How to lose 5 trillion 8211 Anderson Cooper 360 - CNN.com Blogs

Dude you have serious issues. You need to take your meds or something. I don't give a shit about dot com. I don't care if you're right or wrong.

 

[KGB]

Obama's plan on ISIS reminded me just how dumb the American people are. I like Obama, but anyone with a moderate amount of intelligence knows that he is bullshitting the American people on this issue. There is no way airstrikes alone will defeat ISIS. If they are to be defeated, it will require a full scale war. Whether or not we should launch a full scale war is a separate issue however. His speech was simply an attempt to placate the American people who do not want boots on the ground. The truth is Obama and the Pentagon know full well a full scale war is what would be needed.

This issue isn't really my point so much. It is a part of a broad point which is that Americans are stupid. Americans, on average, are not smart enough to understand issues like war strategy, economics, and geo politics. It pisses me off that our politicians come up with bullshit solutions to our nation's problems that simply sound good to the American people. They are solutions that the American people can easily understand but, in reality, are not good solutions.

When it comes to fixing complex problems, politicians need to stop listening to what the American people think and listen to what educated experts say about them. Let's break down some examples of solutions that work yet Americans hate so our politicians don't do them.

To pay down the debt, we need to cut spending AND raise taxes, not cut them.

To create jobs, tax cuts are not the solution. Tax cuts, especially the ones for the wealthy, do very little to stimulate economic growth. They do more to add to our national debt than they do let business grow. I know it SOUNDS like it makes sense to cut taxes, but facts and reality say otherwise.

I know it SOUNDS like it makes sense to enact huge and broad spending cuts, but in reality, when it comes to cutting spending (which in itself is important), these cuts must be carefully selected and analyzed. This is something the tea baggers can't seem to grasp. When it comes to cutting spending, a scapel is needed - not a lazy sledgehammer.

I think back to the 2012 election. Both Romney and Obama ran on the issue of paying down the debt. They both came up with easy to understand strategies for doing this, but experts dismissed both strategies as being unrealistic.

it is logical that cutting spending & increasing income can pay down the debt. If there was a laser-like focus on doing that, I could probably get behind it, however, here's the problem. Both parties have shown an unwillingness to commit to harsh fiscal discipline. As a tax payer, I just don't trust the government with my money that I give them now. Why should I give them more?

 

[Billy000]

Obama's plan on ISIS reminded me just how dumb the American people are. I like Obama, but anyone with a moderate amount of intelligence knows that he is bullshitting the American people on this issue. There is no way airstrikes alone will defeat ISIS. If they are to be defeated, it will require a full scale war. Whether or not we should launch a full scale war is a separate issue however. His speech was simply an attempt to placate the American people who do not want boots on the ground. The truth is Obama and the Pentagon know full well a full scale war is what would be needed.

This issue isn't really my point so much. It is a part of a broad point which is that Americans are stupid. Americans, on average, are not smart enough to understand issues like war strategy, economics, and geo politics. It pisses me off that our politicians come up with bullshit solutions to our nation's problems that simply sound good to the American people. They are solutions that the American people can easily understand but, in reality, are not good solutions.

When it comes to fixing complex problems, politicians need to stop listening to what the American people think and listen to what educated experts say about them. Let's break down some examples of solutions that work yet Americans hate so our politicians don't do them.

To pay down the debt, we need to cut spending AND raise taxes, not cut them.

To create jobs, tax cuts are not the solution. Tax cuts, especially the ones for the wealthy, do very little to stimulate economic growth. They do more to add to our national debt than they do let business grow. I know it SOUNDS like it makes sense to cut taxes, but facts and reality say otherwise.

I know it SOUNDS like it makes sense to enact huge and broad spending cuts, but in reality, when it comes to cutting spending (which in itself is important), these cuts must be carefully selected and analyzed. This is something the tea baggers can't seem to grasp. When it comes to cutting spending, a scapel is needed - not a lazy sledgehammer.

I think back to the 2012 election. Both Romney and Obama ran on the issue of paying down the debt. They both came up with easy to understand strategies for doing this, but experts dismissed both strategies as being unrealistic.

it is logical that cutting spending & increasing income can pay down the debt. If there was a laser-like focus on doing that, I could probably get behind it, however, here's the problem. Both parties have shown an unwillingness to commit to harsh fiscal discipline. As a tax payer, I just don't trust the government with my money that I give them now. Why should I give them more?

Increasing income would do very little to pay down the debt. Not even remotely close.

 

[JoeNormal]

Oh right. Gee how convenient it. It was the dems. Just the dems. The president, a lack of financial regulation on multiple levels had absolutely nothing to do with it.

You people are pathetic.

Your original thesis has been demonstrated to be correct.

 

[healthmyths]

Obama's plan on ISIS reminded me just how dumb the American people are. I like Obama, but anyone with a moderate amount of intelligence knows that he is bullshitting the American people on this issue. There is no way airstrikes alone will defeat ISIS. If they are to be defeated, it will require a full scale war. Whether or not we should launch a full scale war is a separate issue however. His speech was simply an attempt to placate the American people who do not want boots on the ground. The truth is Obama and the Pentagon know full well a full scale war is what would be needed.

This issue isn't really my point so much. It is a part of a broad point which is that Americans are stupid. Americans, on average, are not smart enough to understand issues like war strategy, economics, and geo politics. It pisses me off that our politicians come up with bullshit solutions to our nation's problems that simply sound good to the American people. They are solutions that the American people can easily understand but, in reality, are not good solutions.

When it comes to fixing complex problems, politicians need to stop listening to what the American people think and listen to what educated experts say about them. Let's break down some examples of solutions that work yet Americans hate so our politicians don't do them.

To pay down the debt, we need to cut spending AND raise taxes, not cut them.

To create jobs, tax cuts are not the solution. Tax cuts, especially the ones for the wealthy, do very little to stimulate economic growth. They do more to add to our national debt than they do let business grow. I know it SOUNDS like it makes sense to cut taxes, but facts and reality say otherwise.

I know it SOUNDS like it makes sense to enact huge and broad spending cuts, but in reality, when it comes to cutting spending (which in itself is important), these cuts must be carefully selected and analyzed. This is something the tea baggers can't seem to grasp. When it comes to cutting spending, a scapel is needed - not a lazy sledgehammer.

I think back to the 2012 election. Both Romney and Obama ran on the issue of paying down the debt. They both came up with easy to understand strategies for doing this, but experts dismissed both strategies as being unrealistic.

"To create jobs, tax cuts are not the solution... but facts and reality say otherwise."
You make the generalization without substantiation.... check the facts first!
Now for the FACTS:
First Deal with the realities of the last MAJOR tax cuts by Bush.

1) Do YOU agree a recession started under Clinton and became official 3/01 ended 11/01?
Source: USATODAY.com - It s official 2001 recession only lasted eight months

2) Do YOU agree that the dot.com bust occurred and cost $5 trillion in losses?
According to the Los Angeles Times, when the dot-com bubble burst, it wiped out $5 trillion dollars in market value for tech companies. More than half of the Internet companies created since 1995 were gone by 2004 - and hundreds of thousands of skilled technology workers were out of jobs.
Source: The dot-com bubble How to lose 5 trillion 8211 Anderson Cooper 360 - CNN.com Blogs

3) Hard to believe but people forget that 9/11 cost $2 trillion in lost businesses,market values assets.
Jobs lost in New York owing to the attacks: 146,100 JUST in New York.
Year 2001: September 11 Terrorist Attacks
The 9/11 terrorist attacks were the events that helped shape other financial events of the decade. After that terrible day in September 2001, our economic climate was never to be the same again. It was only the third time in history that the New York Stock Exchange was shut down for a period of time. In this case, it was closed from September 10 - 17. Besides the tragic human loss of that day, the economic loss cannot even be estimated. Some estimate that there was over $60 billion in insurance losses alone.
Approximately 18,000 small businesses were either displaced or destroyed in Lower Manhattan after the Twin Towers fell. There was a buildup in homeland security on all levels. 9/11 caused a catastrophic financial loss for the U.S.
Source: The Top 10 Financial Events of the Decade

4) $1 trillion in written off losses due to the WORST Hurricane SEASONS in history.
The worst Katrina made landfall in Louisiana as a Category 3 in 2005. It took 1,836 lives and caused $81.2 billion in damages. Andrew slammed into South Florida in 1992 as a Category 5. It caused 40 deaths and $30 billion in property damage. More than 250,000 people were left homeless and 82,000 businesses were destroyed or damaged.
Hurricane Katrina ALONE! Year 2005: Hurricanes Katrina and Rita
On August 25, 2005, Hurricane Katrina hit the Gulf Coast of the U.S. as a strong Category 3 or low Category 4 storm. It quickly became the biggest natural disaster in U.S. history, almost destroying New Orleans due to severe flooding.
The Top 10 Financial Events of the Decade

THESE events OCCURRED!
YET in SPITE of a) 400,000 jobs due to Hurricanes Katrina/Rita , b) 2,800,000 jobs in alone due to 9/11,
c) 300,000 jobs lost due to dot.com busts...
In spite of nearly $8 trillion in lost businesses, market values, destroyed property.. IN SPITE of that:

AFTER the tax cuts Federal Tax REVENUES Increased an average of 9.78% per year!!!
Government Revenue Details Federal State Local for 2008 - Charts

Year	revenue(billions)	increase/ decrease	Change	Reason
2000	$1,211
2001	$1,145	-$ 66	-5.47%	-- remember Wall street closed, no flights 3 days destructions!
2002	$1,006	-$139	-12.14%	In spite of dot.com/911 losses tax writes offs..
2003	$ 926	-$ 81	-8.04%	dot.com/911 losses tax write offs
2004	$ 998	$ 73 up!	7.87% ^	Tax cuts STARTED.. in spite of tax revenues UP!
2005	$1,206	$207 up!	20.76%^	Again tax cuts in play.. REVENUES UP!!!
2006	$1,398	$192 UP!	15.95%^	AGAIN tax cuts but REVENUES UP!!!
2007	$1,534	$136 UP!	9.72%^	Again tax cuts BUT revenues UP!!!
2008	$1,450	-$ 84	- 5.45%	$500 billion pulled out of MMF on 9/18/08 in 2 hours!

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

So with ALL these above FACTS substantiated with sources AGAIN...
Tell me where TAX revenues decreased BECAUSE of TAX CUTS?????
AND please once and for all why not admit the above events had a DIRECT relationship to tax revenues!

I find it hilarious you didn't even mention the Great Recession which began in the last 4 months of Bush's presidency. We lost 3 million jobs in Bush's last few months. We lost 5 million more in the first 6 months of 2009 which were directly connected to the same financial crisis. You are a disingenuous goon and you know it.

Bush's tax cuts created 4.6 jobs per million dollar cut. That's it.

Because dimwits took control of congress.

Oh right. Gee how convenient it. It was the dems. Just the dems. The president, a lack of financial regulation on multiple levels had absolutely nothing to do with it.

You people are pathetic.

YOUR ignoring these STATEMENTS is pathetic!!!
Many prominent Democrats, including House Finance Chairman Barney Frank, opposed any legislation correcting the risks posed by GSEs.
* House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank (D-MA) criticized
the President's warning saying:
"these two entities - Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac - are not facing any kind of financial crisis .The more people exaggerate these problems,
the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."...
(Stephen Labaton, "New Agency Proposed To Oversee Freddie Mac And Fannie Mae," New York Times, 9/11/03)

* Senate Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Chairman Christopher Dodd also ignored the President's warnings and called on him to "immediately reconsider his ill-advised" position. Eric Dash, "Fannie Mae's Offer To Help Ease Credit Squeeze Is Rejected, As Critics Complain Of Opportunism," New York Times, 8/11/07)

Barney Frank s Fannie and Freddie Muddle - US News

 

[blackhawk]

Not wanting the politicians to listen to the people those they are supposed to represent and work for interesting.

 

[Jarhead]

Dude

Obama's plan on ISIS reminded me just how dumb the American people are. I like Obama, but anyone with a moderate amount of intelligence knows that he is bullshitting the American people on this issue. There is no way airstrikes alone will defeat ISIS. If they are to be defeated, it will require a full scale war. Whether or not we should launch a full scale war is a separate issue however. His speech was simply an attempt to placate the American people who do not want boots on the ground. The truth is Obama and the Pentagon know full well a full scale war is what would be needed.

This issue isn't really my point so much. It is a part of a broad point which is that Americans are stupid. Americans, on average, are not smart enough to understand issues like war strategy, economics, and geo politics. It pisses me off that our politicians come up with bullshit solutions to our nation's problems that simply sound good to the American people. They are solutions that the American people can easily understand but, in reality, are not good solutions.

When it comes to fixing complex problems, politicians need to stop listening to what the American people think and listen to what educated experts say about them. Let's break down some examples of solutions that work yet Americans hate so our politicians don't do them.

To pay down the debt, we need to cut spending AND raise taxes, not cut them.

To create jobs, tax cuts are not the solution. Tax cuts, especially the ones for the wealthy, do very little to stimulate economic growth. They do more to add to our national debt than they do let business grow. I know it SOUNDS like it makes sense to cut taxes, but facts and reality say otherwise.

I know it SOUNDS like it makes sense to enact huge and broad spending cuts, but in reality, when it comes to cutting spending (which in itself is important), these cuts must be carefully selected and analyzed. This is something the tea baggers can't seem to grasp. When it comes to cutting spending, a scapel is needed - not a lazy sledgehammer.

I think back to the 2012 election. Both Romney and Obama ran on the issue of paying down the debt. They both came up with easy to understand strategies for doing this, but experts dismissed both strategies as being unrealistic.

"To create jobs, tax cuts are not the solution... but facts and reality say otherwise."
You make the generalization without substantiation.... check the facts first!
Now for the FACTS:
First Deal with the realities of the last MAJOR tax cuts by Bush.

1) Do YOU agree a recession started under Clinton and became official 3/01 ended 11/01?
Source: USATODAY.com - It s official 2001 recession only lasted eight months

2) Do YOU agree that the dot.com bust occurred and cost $5 trillion in losses?
According to the Los Angeles Times, when the dot-com bubble burst, it wiped out $5 trillion dollars in market value for tech companies. More than half of the Internet companies created since 1995 were gone by 2004 - and hundreds of thousands of skilled technology workers were out of jobs.
Source: The dot-com bubble How to lose 5 trillion 8211 Anderson Cooper 360 - CNN.com Blogs

3) Hard to believe but people forget that 9/11 cost $2 trillion in lost businesses,market values assets.
Jobs lost in New York owing to the attacks: 146,100 JUST in New York.
Year 2001: September 11 Terrorist Attacks
The 9/11 terrorist attacks were the events that helped shape other financial events of the decade. After that terrible day in September 2001, our economic climate was never to be the same again. It was only the third time in history that the New York Stock Exchange was shut down for a period of time. In this case, it was closed from September 10 - 17. Besides the tragic human loss of that day, the economic loss cannot even be estimated. Some estimate that there was over $60 billion in insurance losses alone.
Approximately 18,000 small businesses were either displaced or destroyed in Lower Manhattan after the Twin Towers fell. There was a buildup in homeland security on all levels. 9/11 caused a catastrophic financial loss for the U.S.
Source: The Top 10 Financial Events of the Decade

4) $1 trillion in written off losses due to the WORST Hurricane SEASONS in history.
The worst Katrina made landfall in Louisiana as a Category 3 in 2005. It took 1,836 lives and caused $81.2 billion in damages. Andrew slammed into South Florida in 1992 as a Category 5. It caused 40 deaths and $30 billion in property damage. More than 250,000 people were left homeless and 82,000 businesses were destroyed or damaged.
Hurricane Katrina ALONE! Year 2005: Hurricanes Katrina and Rita
On August 25, 2005, Hurricane Katrina hit the Gulf Coast of the U.S. as a strong Category 3 or low Category 4 storm. It quickly became the biggest natural disaster in U.S. history, almost destroying New Orleans due to severe flooding.
The Top 10 Financial Events of the Decade

THESE events OCCURRED!
YET in SPITE of a) 400,000 jobs due to Hurricanes Katrina/Rita , b) 2,800,000 jobs in alone due to 9/11,
c) 300,000 jobs lost due to dot.com busts...
In spite of nearly $8 trillion in lost businesses, market values, destroyed property.. IN SPITE of that:

AFTER the tax cuts Federal Tax REVENUES Increased an average of 9.78% per year!!!
Government Revenue Details Federal State Local for 2008 - Charts

Year	revenue(billions)	increase/ decrease	Change	Reason
2000	$1,211
2001	$1,145	-$ 66	-5.47%	-- remember Wall street closed, no flights 3 days destructions!
2002	$1,006	-$139	-12.14%	In spite of dot.com/911 losses tax writes offs..
2003	$ 926	-$ 81	-8.04%	dot.com/911 losses tax write offs
2004	$ 998	$ 73 up!	7.87% ^	Tax cuts STARTED.. in spite of tax revenues UP!
2005	$1,206	$207 up!	20.76%^	Again tax cuts in play.. REVENUES UP!!!
2006	$1,398	$192 UP!	15.95%^	AGAIN tax cuts but REVENUES UP!!!
2007	$1,534	$136 UP!	9.72%^	Again tax cuts BUT revenues UP!!!
2008	$1,450	-$ 84	- 5.45%	$500 billion pulled out of MMF on 9/18/08 in 2 hours!

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

So with ALL these above FACTS substantiated with sources AGAIN...
Tell me where TAX revenues decreased BECAUSE of TAX CUTS?????
AND please once and for all why not admit the above events had a DIRECT relationship to tax revenues!

I find it hilarious you didn't even mention the Great Recession which began in the last 4 months of Bush's presidency. We lost 3 million jobs in Bush's last few months. We lost 5 million more in the first 6 months of 2009 which were directly connected to the same financial crisis. You are a disingenuous goon and you know it.

Bush's tax cuts created 4.6 jobs per million dollar cut. That's it.

Why should I mention something that idiots like YOU have NO KNOWLEDGE of how it began!
WHERE ARE YOUR facts though as I did substantiating MY statements?
NO where?
WHAT the f...k right do YOU have calling me a "goon" when idiots like you can't EVEN admit that
the 4 MAJOR DEVASTATING events which just ONE would have been totally debilitating to idiots like you to handle!
As far as the "financial crisis" idiot... are you aware of the economic terrorist attack done on
9/18/08???
HERE ARE THE FACTS you dummy that precipitated this major issue...!
1) Community Re-Investment-Act encourage higher risk loans! Understand?
2) Most of the CRA loans were backed by Fannie/Freddie? Proof?
Banks re-packaged and sold with Fannie/Freddie Using CDswaps banks could unload the sub-prime loans by having Fannie/Freddie securitizing them as explained in this statement:
Oct. 23,2008 (Bloomberg) -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have an "effective'' federal guarantee, not the "full faith and credit'' of the U.S. government, Federal Housing Finance Agency Director James Lockhart said after the hearing. That does give them effectively a guarantee of the U.S. government.''
Lockhart s Fannie Freddie Guarantee Remarks Stir Up Confusion - Bloomberg

GWB's administration was LAUGHED AT BY Democrats Frank and Dodd after 17 times trying to get Fannie/Freddie fixed!
"Over the past six years, the President and his Administration have not only warned of the systemic consequences of failure to reform GSEs but also put forward thoughtful plans to reduce the risk that either Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac would encounter such difficulties.
President Bush publicly called for GSE reform at least 17 times in 2008 alone before Congress acted.
Unfortunately, these warnings went unheeded, as the President's repeated attempts to reform the supervision of these entities were thwarted by the legislative maneuvering of those who emphatically denied there were problems.
Setting the Record Straight The Three Most Egregious Claims In The New York Times Article On The Housing Crisis

Many prominent Democrats, including House Finance Chairman Barney Frank, opposed any legislation correcting the risks posed by GSEs.
* House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank (D-MA) criticized
the President's warning saying:
"these two entities - Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac - are not facing any kind of financial crisis .The more people exaggerate these problems,
the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."...
(Stephen Labaton, "New Agency Proposed To Oversee Freddie Mac And Fannie Mae," New York Times, 9/11/03)

* Senate Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Chairman Christopher Dodd also ignored the President's warnings and called on him to "immediately reconsider his ill-advised" position. Eric Dash, "Fannie Mae's Offer To Help Ease Credit Squeeze Is Rejected, As Critics Complain Of Opportunism," New York Times, 8/11/07)

Barney Frank s Fannie and Freddie Muddle - US News
So over the years these subprime loans came to a head on 9/18/2008 again NOT mentioned widely by the biased MSM and I'm sure YOU've NEVER heard about this!

September 18, 2008: Edge of Collapse
"The collapse revelation came a few days ago from Rep. Paul Kanjorski (D-Pennsylvania) when he was interviewed on C-Span.
On Thursday [the 18th], at about 11 o’clock in the morning, the Federal Reserve noticed a tremendous drawdown of money market accounts in the United States to a tune of $550 billion being drawn out in a matter of an hour or two.

The Treasury opened up its window to help.
They pumped $105 billion into the system and quickly realized that they could not stem the tide.
We were having an electronic run on the banks.
They decided to close the operation, close down the money accounts, and announce a guarantee of $250,000 per account so there wouldn’t be further panic and there.
And that’s what actually happened.
If they had not done that their estimation was that by two o’clock that afternoon, $5.5 trillion would have been drawn out of the money market system of the United States, would have collapsed the entire economy of the United States, and within 24 hours the world economy would have collapsed.
September 18 2008 Edge of Collapse - Daily Reckoning

NOW idiots like YOU blaming Bush for something started in Jimmy Carter' time, blown out of proportion by Clinton and like all other crisis started by those idiots... Bush had to fix!

Here is where your stupidity comes into play fully. To say that Fannie and Freddie alone caused the financial crisis is absolutely ridiculous. It was a variety of factors. In fact, the crisis wouldn't have even happened if it was just about Fannie and Freddie. It was a lack of financial regulation on several levels. Income inequality also played a role.

How convenient you blame this all on dems yet give no blame to Bush.

Hey... I'm an honest person that when there is BLAME for Bush for MAJOR MAJOR economic issues I would blame... BUT so far idiots like you don't seem to recognize the realities of the 4 major gigantic events that Bush HAD to respond TO! He had NOTHING to do with the dot.com bust, the recession
the 9/11 and obviously unlike you who thinks Obama is the Messiah he couldn't have prevented the worst hurricane seasons that NO president ever faced!
YET YOU idiots ignore ALL those events!
AND then you idiots blame Bush for Iraq liberation which HE Didn't start...he just finished!
And you idiots don't even know 1/10th of how bad the MSM and traitors like you had in prolonging Iraq
by encouraging the terrorists with your comments like our dick president did:
"our military is air raiding villages, killing civilians"! Statements like these HELPEd the terrorists kill more
US troops and you idiots completely encourage that!
So you tell me WHAT major economic/social/political event that was the caused by Bush?
NONE... Yet idiots like you continue to BASH the guy who actually kept the USA together!!!

You idiot you're the one that brought up dot com and the recession in 2001. What the fuck are you talking about?

GEEZ how stupid! Recessions and dot.com bust DID NOT JUST happen in one day! Dumb f...k!
It started under Clinton.. THE FACTS are this dummy:

1) Do YOU agree a recession started under Clinton and became official 3/01 ended 11/01?
Source:USATODAY.com - It s official 2001 recession only lasted eight months

2)Dot com bust STARTED under clinton!
The dot-com bubble How to lose 5 trillion 8211 Anderson Cooper 360 - CNN.com Blogs

Dude you have serious issues. You need to take your meds or something. I don't give a shit about dot com. I don't care if you're right or wrong.

if you don't give a shit about dot com then you are not qualified to discuss the recession of 2008.
If you don't give a shit about the CRA then you are not qualified to discuss the recession of 2008

Actually, reading your rant, I don't think you are qualified to discuss Green Eggs and Ham.

 

[Jarhead]

Obama's plan on ISIS reminded me just how dumb the American people are. I like Obama, but anyone with a moderate amount of intelligence knows that he is bullshitting the American people on this issue. There is no way airstrikes alone will defeat ISIS. If they are to be defeated, it will require a full scale war. Whether or not we should launch a full scale war is a separate issue however. His speech was simply an attempt to placate the American people who do not want boots on the ground. The truth is Obama and the Pentagon know full well a full scale war is what would be needed.

This issue isn't really my point so much. It is a part of a broad point which is that Americans are stupid. Americans, on average, are not smart enough to understand issues like war strategy, economics, and geo politics. It pisses me off that our politicians come up with bullshit solutions to our nation's problems that simply sound good to the American people. They are solutions that the American people can easily understand but, in reality, are not good solutions.

When it comes to fixing complex problems, politicians need to stop listening to what the American people think and listen to what educated experts say about them. Let's break down some examples of solutions that work yet Americans hate so our politicians don't do them.

To pay down the debt, we need to cut spending AND raise taxes, not cut them.

To create jobs, tax cuts are not the solution. Tax cuts, especially the ones for the wealthy, do very little to stimulate economic growth. They do more to add to our national debt than they do let business grow. I know it SOUNDS like it makes sense to cut taxes, but facts and reality say otherwise.

I know it SOUNDS like it makes sense to enact huge and broad spending cuts, but in reality, when it comes to cutting spending (which in itself is important), these cuts must be carefully selected and analyzed. This is something the tea baggers can't seem to grasp. When it comes to cutting spending, a scapel is needed - not a lazy sledgehammer.

I think back to the 2012 election. Both Romney and Obama ran on the issue of paying down the debt. They both came up with easy to understand strategies for doing this, but experts dismissed both strategies as being unrealistic.

it is logical that cutting spending & increasing income can pay down the debt. If there was a laser-like focus on doing that, I could probably get behind it, however, here's the problem. Both parties have shown an unwillingness to commit to harsh fiscal discipline. As a tax payer, I just don't trust the government with my money that I give them now. Why should I give them more?

Increasing income would do very little to pay down the debt. Not even remotely close.

The debt is 17 trillion.
Do you know what it will take to amass just 1 trillion in surplus? Think about it. One trillion.

Now, multiply that by 17.

There is no paying down the debt.

 

[healthmyths]

I have

Obama's plan on ISIS reminded me just how dumb the American people are. I like Obama, but anyone with a moderate amount of intelligence knows that he is bullshitting the American people on this issue. There is no way airstrikes alone will defeat ISIS. If they are to be defeated, it will require a full scale war. Whether or not we should launch a full scale war is a separate issue however. His speech was simply an attempt to placate the American people who do not want boots on the ground. The truth is Obama and the Pentagon know full well a full scale war is what would be needed.

This issue isn't really my point so much. It is a part of a broad point which is that Americans are stupid. Americans, on average, are not smart enough to understand issues like war strategy, economics, and geo politics. It pisses me off that our politicians come up with bullshit solutions to our nation's problems that simply sound good to the American people. They are solutions that the American people can easily understand but, in reality, are not good solutions.

When it comes to fixing complex problems, politicians need to stop listening to what the American people think and listen to what educated experts say about them. Let's break down some examples of solutions that work yet Americans hate so our politicians don't do them.

To pay down the debt, we need to cut spending AND raise taxes, not cut them.

To create jobs, tax cuts are not the solution. Tax cuts, especially the ones for the wealthy, do very little to stimulate economic growth. They do more to add to our national debt than they do let business grow. I know it SOUNDS like it makes sense to cut taxes, but facts and reality say otherwise.

I know it SOUNDS like it makes sense to enact huge and broad spending cuts, but in reality, when it comes to cutting spending (which in itself is important), these cuts must be carefully selected and analyzed. This is something the tea baggers can't seem to grasp. When it comes to cutting spending, a scapel is needed - not a lazy sledgehammer.

I think back to the 2012 election. Both Romney and Obama ran on the issue of paying down the debt. They both came up with easy to understand strategies for doing this, but experts dismissed both strategies as being unrealistic.

"To create jobs, tax cuts are not the solution... but facts and reality say otherwise."
You make the generalization without substantiation.... check the facts first!
Now for the FACTS:
First Deal with the realities of the last MAJOR tax cuts by Bush.

1) Do YOU agree a recession started under Clinton and became official 3/01 ended 11/01?
Source: USATODAY.com - It s official 2001 recession only lasted eight months

2) Do YOU agree that the dot.com bust occurred and cost $5 trillion in losses?
According to the Los Angeles Times, when the dot-com bubble burst, it wiped out $5 trillion dollars in market value for tech companies. More than half of the Internet companies created since 1995 were gone by 2004 - and hundreds of thousands of skilled technology workers were out of jobs.
Source: The dot-com bubble How to lose 5 trillion 8211 Anderson Cooper 360 - CNN.com Blogs

3) Hard to believe but people forget that 9/11 cost $2 trillion in lost businesses,market values assets.
Jobs lost in New York owing to the attacks: 146,100 JUST in New York.
Year 2001: September 11 Terrorist Attacks
The 9/11 terrorist attacks were the events that helped shape other financial events of the decade. After that terrible day in September 2001, our economic climate was never to be the same again. It was only the third time in history that the New York Stock Exchange was shut down for a period of time. In this case, it was closed from September 10 - 17. Besides the tragic human loss of that day, the economic loss cannot even be estimated. Some estimate that there was over $60 billion in insurance losses alone.
Approximately 18,000 small businesses were either displaced or destroyed in Lower Manhattan after the Twin Towers fell. There was a buildup in homeland security on all levels. 9/11 caused a catastrophic financial loss for the U.S.
Source: The Top 10 Financial Events of the Decade

4) $1 trillion in written off losses due to the WORST Hurricane SEASONS in history.
The worst Katrina made landfall in Louisiana as a Category 3 in 2005. It took 1,836 lives and caused $81.2 billion in damages. Andrew slammed into South Florida in 1992 as a Category 5. It caused 40 deaths and $30 billion in property damage. More than 250,000 people were left homeless and 82,000 businesses were destroyed or damaged.
Hurricane Katrina ALONE! Year 2005: Hurricanes Katrina and Rita
On August 25, 2005, Hurricane Katrina hit the Gulf Coast of the U.S. as a strong Category 3 or low Category 4 storm. It quickly became the biggest natural disaster in U.S. history, almost destroying New Orleans due to severe flooding.
The Top 10 Financial Events of the Decade

THESE events OCCURRED!
YET in SPITE of a) 400,000 jobs due to Hurricanes Katrina/Rita , b) 2,800,000 jobs in alone due to 9/11,
c) 300,000 jobs lost due to dot.com busts...
In spite of nearly $8 trillion in lost businesses, market values, destroyed property.. IN SPITE of that:

AFTER the tax cuts Federal Tax REVENUES Increased an average of 9.78% per year!!!
Government Revenue Details Federal State Local for 2008 - Charts

Year	revenue(billions)	increase/ decrease	Change	Reason
2000	$1,211
2001	$1,145	-$ 66	-5.47%	-- remember Wall street closed, no flights 3 days destructions!
2002	$1,006	-$139	-12.14%	In spite of dot.com/911 losses tax writes offs..
2003	$ 926	-$ 81	-8.04%	dot.com/911 losses tax write offs
2004	$ 998	$ 73 up!	7.87% ^	Tax cuts STARTED.. in spite of tax revenues UP!
2005	$1,206	$207 up!	20.76%^	Again tax cuts in play.. REVENUES UP!!!
2006	$1,398	$192 UP!	15.95%^	AGAIN tax cuts but REVENUES UP!!!
2007	$1,534	$136 UP!	9.72%^	Again tax cuts BUT revenues UP!!!
2008	$1,450	-$ 84	- 5.45%	$500 billion pulled out of MMF on 9/18/08 in 2 hours!

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

So with ALL these above FACTS substantiated with sources AGAIN...
Tell me where TAX revenues decreased BECAUSE of TAX CUTS?????
AND please once and for all why not admit the above events had a DIRECT relationship to tax revenues!

I find it hilarious you didn't even mention the Great Recession which began in the last 4 months of Bush's presidency. We lost 3 million jobs in Bush's last few months. We lost 5 million more in the first 6 months of 2009 which were directly connected to the same financial crisis. You are a disingenuous goon and you know it.

Bush's tax cuts created 4.6 jobs per million dollar cut. That's it.

Why should I mention something that idiots like YOU have NO KNOWLEDGE of how it began!
WHERE ARE YOUR facts though as I did substantiating MY statements?
NO where?
WHAT the f...k right do YOU have calling me a "goon" when idiots like you can't EVEN admit that
the 4 MAJOR DEVASTATING events which just ONE would have been totally debilitating to idiots like you to handle!
As far as the "financial crisis" idiot... are you aware of the economic terrorist attack done on
9/18/08???
HERE ARE THE FACTS you dummy that precipitated this major issue...!
1) Community Re-Investment-Act encourage higher risk loans! Understand?
2) Most of the CRA loans were backed by Fannie/Freddie? Proof?
Banks re-packaged and sold with Fannie/Freddie Using CDswaps banks could unload the sub-prime loans by having Fannie/Freddie securitizing them as explained in this statement:
Oct. 23,2008 (Bloomberg) -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have an "effective'' federal guarantee, not the "full faith and credit'' of the U.S. government, Federal Housing Finance Agency Director James Lockhart said after the hearing. That does give them effectively a guarantee of the U.S. government.''
Lockhart s Fannie Freddie Guarantee Remarks Stir Up Confusion - Bloomberg

GWB's administration was LAUGHED AT BY Democrats Frank and Dodd after 17 times trying to get Fannie/Freddie fixed!
"Over the past six years, the President and his Administration have not only warned of the systemic consequences of failure to reform GSEs but also put forward thoughtful plans to reduce the risk that either Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac would encounter such difficulties.
President Bush publicly called for GSE reform at least 17 times in 2008 alone before Congress acted.
Unfortunately, these warnings went unheeded, as the President's repeated attempts to reform the supervision of these entities were thwarted by the legislative maneuvering of those who emphatically denied there were problems.
Setting the Record Straight The Three Most Egregious Claims In The New York Times Article On The Housing Crisis

Many prominent Democrats, including House Finance Chairman Barney Frank, opposed any legislation correcting the risks posed by GSEs.
* House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank (D-MA) criticized
the President's warning saying:
"these two entities - Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac - are not facing any kind of financial crisis .The more people exaggerate these problems,
the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."...
(Stephen Labaton, "New Agency Proposed To Oversee Freddie Mac And Fannie Mae," New York Times, 9/11/03)

* Senate Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Chairman Christopher Dodd also ignored the President's warnings and called on him to "immediately reconsider his ill-advised" position. Eric Dash, "Fannie Mae's Offer To Help Ease Credit Squeeze Is Rejected, As Critics Complain Of Opportunism," New York Times, 8/11/07)

Barney Frank s Fannie and Freddie Muddle - US News
So over the years these subprime loans came to a head on 9/18/2008 again NOT mentioned widely by the biased MSM and I'm sure YOU've NEVER heard about this!

September 18, 2008: Edge of Collapse
"The collapse revelation came a few days ago from Rep. Paul Kanjorski (D-Pennsylvania) when he was interviewed on C-Span.
On Thursday [the 18th], at about 11 o’clock in the morning, the Federal Reserve noticed a tremendous drawdown of money market accounts in the United States to a tune of $550 billion being drawn out in a matter of an hour or two.

The Treasury opened up its window to help.
They pumped $105 billion into the system and quickly realized that they could not stem the tide.
We were having an electronic run on the banks.
They decided to close the operation, close down the money accounts, and announce a guarantee of $250,000 per account so there wouldn’t be further panic and there.
And that’s what actually happened.
If they had not done that their estimation was that by two o’clock that afternoon, $5.5 trillion would have been drawn out of the money market system of the United States, would have collapsed the entire economy of the United States, and within 24 hours the world economy would have collapsed.
September 18 2008 Edge of Collapse - Daily Reckoning

NOW idiots like YOU blaming Bush for something started in Jimmy Carter' time, blown out of proportion by Clinton and like all other crisis started by those idiots... Bush had to fix!

Here is where your stupidity comes into play fully. To say that Fannie and Freddie alone caused the financial crisis is absolutely ridiculous. It was a variety of factors. In fact, the crisis wouldn't have even happened if it was just about Fannie and Freddie. It was a lack of financial regulation on several levels. Income inequality also played a role.

How convenient you blame this all on dems yet give no blame to Bush.

OK... I will agree with you.... Let's BLAME Bush for NOT being able to get a Democrat House/Senate
to fix the issues caused by Carter's Community Reinvestment Act, Clinton's open door policy and
this very little known fact that ignorant people like YOU have NO knowledge obviously or else you are conveniently forgetting!!

Remember who defended the 1995 Acorn suit against Citicorp...OBAMA!
1) Before 1995 home loans were made to people that could make the mortgage payments.
In these lawsuits, ACORN makes a bogus claim of Redlining (denying poor people loans because of their ethnic heritage).
They protest and get the local media to raise a big stink.
This stink means that the bank faces thousands of people closing their accounts and get local politicians to lobby to stop the bank from doing some future business, expansions and mergers.
ACORN filed tons of these lawsuits and ALL of them allege racism.
UPDATED Obama Sued Citibank Under CRA to Force it to Make Bad Loans - Media Circus Media Circus

READ the facts that Obama was involved in which STARTED the subprime loan debacle!

I have no earthly understand why we are even talking about all this shit. You are bringing up irrelevant issues to this thread for the sake of sounding intelligent. I'm not impressed at all.

The RELEVANCE is that continued ignorance regarding "politicians" and plugging Bush in the same category as Obama???
Bush was the president of ALL of us!
Bush took the oath of office serious regarding protecting the Constitution and America and with Obama... it's a political equation!

When honest people recognize that the MSM intense bias bashing of Bush and ignorance of Obama's ineptitude we are in the situation we are in now!

Democrats politicized the Liberation of Iraq and that's why we have ISIS today!
Bush listening to the experts,i.e. the military stated clearly leaving Iraq would make an even worse situation. GEEZ these idiots like Obama evidently don't know there have been US troops in Europe/Asia since end of WWII in 1945!
But these Democrats that encouraged the terrorists by making criticism of our military calling our troops "terrorists","Nazis", air-raiding villages killing civilians HELPED recruit terrorists to kill more troops and prolonged the conflict that was militarily over in May 2003.."Mission Accomplished"!
But with terrorists lovers like you and the rest of our military loathers like Obama it continued!
More deaths occurred AFTER 5/2003 then in the military campaign.
All proven by this study from Harvard!
But you guys totally ignore these FACTS... primarily because you are basically simple minded people that want the Messiah to as Obama said:
""This was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal."-- Barack Obama

 

[Billy000]

I have

Obama's plan on ISIS reminded me just how dumb the American people are. I like Obama, but anyone with a moderate amount of intelligence knows that he is bullshitting the American people on this issue. There is no way airstrikes alone will defeat ISIS. If they are to be defeated, it will require a full scale war. Whether or not we should launch a full scale war is a separate issue however. His speech was simply an attempt to placate the American people who do not want boots on the ground. The truth is Obama and the Pentagon know full well a full scale war is what would be needed.

This issue isn't really my point so much. It is a part of a broad point which is that Americans are stupid. Americans, on average, are not smart enough to understand issues like war strategy, economics, and geo politics. It pisses me off that our politicians come up with bullshit solutions to our nation's problems that simply sound good to the American people. They are solutions that the American people can easily understand but, in reality, are not good solutions.

When it comes to fixing complex problems, politicians need to stop listening to what the American people think and listen to what educated experts say about them. Let's break down some examples of solutions that work yet Americans hate so our politicians don't do them.

To pay down the debt, we need to cut spending AND raise taxes, not cut them.

To create jobs, tax cuts are not the solution. Tax cuts, especially the ones for the wealthy, do very little to stimulate economic growth. They do more to add to our national debt than they do let business grow. I know it SOUNDS like it makes sense to cut taxes, but facts and reality say otherwise.

I know it SOUNDS like it makes sense to enact huge and broad spending cuts, but in reality, when it comes to cutting spending (which in itself is important), these cuts must be carefully selected and analyzed. This is something the tea baggers can't seem to grasp. When it comes to cutting spending, a scapel is needed - not a lazy sledgehammer.

I think back to the 2012 election. Both Romney and Obama ran on the issue of paying down the debt. They both came up with easy to understand strategies for doing this, but experts dismissed both strategies as being unrealistic.

"To create jobs, tax cuts are not the solution... but facts and reality say otherwise."
You make the generalization without substantiation.... check the facts first!
Now for the FACTS:
First Deal with the realities of the last MAJOR tax cuts by Bush.

1) Do YOU agree a recession started under Clinton and became official 3/01 ended 11/01?
Source: USATODAY.com - It s official 2001 recession only lasted eight months

2) Do YOU agree that the dot.com bust occurred and cost $5 trillion in losses?
According to the Los Angeles Times, when the dot-com bubble burst, it wiped out $5 trillion dollars in market value for tech companies. More than half of the Internet companies created since 1995 were gone by 2004 - and hundreds of thousands of skilled technology workers were out of jobs.
Source: The dot-com bubble How to lose 5 trillion 8211 Anderson Cooper 360 - CNN.com Blogs

3) Hard to believe but people forget that 9/11 cost $2 trillion in lost businesses,market values assets.
Jobs lost in New York owing to the attacks: 146,100 JUST in New York.
Year 2001: September 11 Terrorist Attacks
The 9/11 terrorist attacks were the events that helped shape other financial events of the decade. After that terrible day in September 2001, our economic climate was never to be the same again. It was only the third time in history that the New York Stock Exchange was shut down for a period of time. In this case, it was closed from September 10 - 17. Besides the tragic human loss of that day, the economic loss cannot even be estimated. Some estimate that there was over $60 billion in insurance losses alone.
Approximately 18,000 small businesses were either displaced or destroyed in Lower Manhattan after the Twin Towers fell. There was a buildup in homeland security on all levels. 9/11 caused a catastrophic financial loss for the U.S.
Source: The Top 10 Financial Events of the Decade

4) $1 trillion in written off losses due to the WORST Hurricane SEASONS in history.
The worst Katrina made landfall in Louisiana as a Category 3 in 2005. It took 1,836 lives and caused $81.2 billion in damages. Andrew slammed into South Florida in 1992 as a Category 5. It caused 40 deaths and $30 billion in property damage. More than 250,000 people were left homeless and 82,000 businesses were destroyed or damaged.
Hurricane Katrina ALONE! Year 2005: Hurricanes Katrina and Rita
On August 25, 2005, Hurricane Katrina hit the Gulf Coast of the U.S. as a strong Category 3 or low Category 4 storm. It quickly became the biggest natural disaster in U.S. history, almost destroying New Orleans due to severe flooding.
The Top 10 Financial Events of the Decade

THESE events OCCURRED!
YET in SPITE of a) 400,000 jobs due to Hurricanes Katrina/Rita , b) 2,800,000 jobs in alone due to 9/11,
c) 300,000 jobs lost due to dot.com busts...
In spite of nearly $8 trillion in lost businesses, market values, destroyed property.. IN SPITE of that:

AFTER the tax cuts Federal Tax REVENUES Increased an average of 9.78% per year!!!
Government Revenue Details Federal State Local for 2008 - Charts

Year	revenue(billions)	increase/ decrease	Change	Reason
2000	$1,211
2001	$1,145	-$ 66	-5.47%	-- remember Wall street closed, no flights 3 days destructions!
2002	$1,006	-$139	-12.14%	In spite of dot.com/911 losses tax writes offs..
2003	$ 926	-$ 81	-8.04%	dot.com/911 losses tax write offs
2004	$ 998	$ 73 up!	7.87% ^	Tax cuts STARTED.. in spite of tax revenues UP!
2005	$1,206	$207 up!	20.76%^	Again tax cuts in play.. REVENUES UP!!!
2006	$1,398	$192 UP!	15.95%^	AGAIN tax cuts but REVENUES UP!!!
2007	$1,534	$136 UP!	9.72%^	Again tax cuts BUT revenues UP!!!
2008	$1,450	-$ 84	- 5.45%	$500 billion pulled out of MMF on 9/18/08 in 2 hours!

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

So with ALL these above FACTS substantiated with sources AGAIN...
Tell me where TAX revenues decreased BECAUSE of TAX CUTS?????
AND please once and for all why not admit the above events had a DIRECT relationship to tax revenues!

I find it hilarious you didn't even mention the Great Recession which began in the last 4 months of Bush's presidency. We lost 3 million jobs in Bush's last few months. We lost 5 million more in the first 6 months of 2009 which were directly connected to the same financial crisis. You are a disingenuous goon and you know it.

Bush's tax cuts created 4.6 jobs per million dollar cut. That's it.

Why should I mention something that idiots like YOU have NO KNOWLEDGE of how it began!
WHERE ARE YOUR facts though as I did substantiating MY statements?
NO where?
WHAT the f...k right do YOU have calling me a "goon" when idiots like you can't EVEN admit that
the 4 MAJOR DEVASTATING events which just ONE would have been totally debilitating to idiots like you to handle!
As far as the "financial crisis" idiot... are you aware of the economic terrorist attack done on
9/18/08???
HERE ARE THE FACTS you dummy that precipitated this major issue...!
1) Community Re-Investment-Act encourage higher risk loans! Understand?
2) Most of the CRA loans were backed by Fannie/Freddie? Proof?
Banks re-packaged and sold with Fannie/Freddie Using CDswaps banks could unload the sub-prime loans by having Fannie/Freddie securitizing them as explained in this statement:
Oct. 23,2008 (Bloomberg) -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have an "effective'' federal guarantee, not the "full faith and credit'' of the U.S. government, Federal Housing Finance Agency Director James Lockhart said after the hearing. That does give them effectively a guarantee of the U.S. government.''
Lockhart s Fannie Freddie Guarantee Remarks Stir Up Confusion - Bloomberg

GWB's administration was LAUGHED AT BY Democrats Frank and Dodd after 17 times trying to get Fannie/Freddie fixed!
"Over the past six years, the President and his Administration have not only warned of the systemic consequences of failure to reform GSEs but also put forward thoughtful plans to reduce the risk that either Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac would encounter such difficulties.
President Bush publicly called for GSE reform at least 17 times in 2008 alone before Congress acted.
Unfortunately, these warnings went unheeded, as the President's repeated attempts to reform the supervision of these entities were thwarted by the legislative maneuvering of those who emphatically denied there were problems.
Setting the Record Straight The Three Most Egregious Claims In The New York Times Article On The Housing Crisis

Many prominent Democrats, including House Finance Chairman Barney Frank, opposed any legislation correcting the risks posed by GSEs.
* House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank (D-MA) criticized
the President's warning saying:
"these two entities - Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac - are not facing any kind of financial crisis .The more people exaggerate these problems,
the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."...
(Stephen Labaton, "New Agency Proposed To Oversee Freddie Mac And Fannie Mae," New York Times, 9/11/03)

* Senate Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Chairman Christopher Dodd also ignored the President's warnings and called on him to "immediately reconsider his ill-advised" position. Eric Dash, "Fannie Mae's Offer To Help Ease Credit Squeeze Is Rejected, As Critics Complain Of Opportunism," New York Times, 8/11/07)

Barney Frank s Fannie and Freddie Muddle - US News
So over the years these subprime loans came to a head on 9/18/2008 again NOT mentioned widely by the biased MSM and I'm sure YOU've NEVER heard about this!

September 18, 2008: Edge of Collapse
"The collapse revelation came a few days ago from Rep. Paul Kanjorski (D-Pennsylvania) when he was interviewed on C-Span.
On Thursday [the 18th], at about 11 o’clock in the morning, the Federal Reserve noticed a tremendous drawdown of money market accounts in the United States to a tune of $550 billion being drawn out in a matter of an hour or two.

The Treasury opened up its window to help.
They pumped $105 billion into the system and quickly realized that they could not stem the tide.
We were having an electronic run on the banks.
They decided to close the operation, close down the money accounts, and announce a guarantee of $250,000 per account so there wouldn’t be further panic and there.
And that’s what actually happened.
If they had not done that their estimation was that by two o’clock that afternoon, $5.5 trillion would have been drawn out of the money market system of the United States, would have collapsed the entire economy of the United States, and within 24 hours the world economy would have collapsed.
September 18 2008 Edge of Collapse - Daily Reckoning

NOW idiots like YOU blaming Bush for something started in Jimmy Carter' time, blown out of proportion by Clinton and like all other crisis started by those idiots... Bush had to fix!

Here is where your stupidity comes into play fully. To say that Fannie and Freddie alone caused the financial crisis is absolutely ridiculous. It was a variety of factors. In fact, the crisis wouldn't have even happened if it was just about Fannie and Freddie. It was a lack of financial regulation on several levels. Income inequality also played a role.

How convenient you blame this all on dems yet give no blame to Bush.

OK... I will agree with you.... Let's BLAME Bush for NOT being able to get a Democrat House/Senate
to fix the issues caused by Carter's Community Reinvestment Act, Clinton's open door policy and
this very little known fact that ignorant people like YOU have NO knowledge obviously or else you are conveniently forgetting!!

Remember who defended the 1995 Acorn suit against Citicorp...OBAMA!
1) Before 1995 home loans were made to people that could make the mortgage payments.
In these lawsuits, ACORN makes a bogus claim of Redlining (denying poor people loans because of their ethnic heritage).
They protest and get the local media to raise a big stink.
This stink means that the bank faces thousands of people closing their accounts and get local politicians to lobby to stop the bank from doing some future business, expansions and mergers.
ACORN filed tons of these lawsuits and ALL of them allege racism.
UPDATED Obama Sued Citibank Under CRA to Force it to Make Bad Loans - Media Circus Media Circus

READ the facts that Obama was involved in which STARTED the subprime loan debacle!

I have no earthly understand why we are even talking about all this shit. You are bringing up irrelevant issues to this thread for the sake of sounding intelligent. I'm not impressed at all.

The RELEVANCE is that continued ignorance regarding "politicians" and plugging Bush in the same category as Obama???
Bush was the president of ALL of us!
Bush took the oath of office serious regarding protecting the Constitution and America and with Obama... it's a political equation!

When honest people recognize that the MSM intense bias bashing of Bush and ignorance of Obama's ineptitude we are in the situation we are in now!

Democrats politicized the Liberation of Iraq and that's why we have ISIS today!
Bush listening to the experts,i.e. the military stated clearly leaving Iraq would make an even worse situation. GEEZ these idiots like Obama evidently don't know there have been US troops in Europe/Asia since end of WWII in 1945!
But these Democrats that encouraged the terrorists by making criticism of our military calling our troops "terrorists","Nazis", air-raiding villages killing civilians HELPED recruit terrorists to kill more troops and prolonged the conflict that was militarily over in May 2003.."Mission Accomplished"!
But with terrorists lovers like you and the rest of our military loathers like Obama it continued!
More deaths occurred AFTER 5/2003 then in the military campaign.
All proven by this study from Harvard!
But you guys totally ignore these FACTS... primarily because you are basically simple minded people that want the Messiah to as Obama said:
""This was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal."-- Barack Obama

So you were totally cool with the patriot act? That in your warped mind was the Bush being a "president to all of us"? You were cool with him and Cheney lying on almost 1000 different times to justify attacking Iraq that did not have WMDs? You were fine with his handling of Katrina relief? You were fine with his reckless spending?

Oh right dems are the reason we have ISIS. Does your stupidly know no bounds? We got out of Iraq on Bush's timeline - not Obama's.

 

[Avatar4321]

So you wish we had a dictator.

Rome did that. They would give all the power to one man to fix the problem and then he would give it back when he was done. Until the last one, when Caesar didn't give the power back.

Yeah, that's exactly what we need. It just lead to over a millennium of the dark ages.

 

[Billy000]

Obama's plan on ISIS reminded me just how dumb the American people are. I like Obama, but anyone with a moderate amount of intelligence knows that he is bullshitting the American people on this issue. There is no way airstrikes alone will defeat ISIS. If they are to be defeated, it will require a full scale war. Whether or not we should launch a full scale war is a separate issue however. His speech was simply an attempt to placate the American people who do not want boots on the ground. The truth is Obama and the Pentagon know full well a full scale war is what would be needed.

This issue isn't really my point so much. It is a part of a broad point which is that Americans are stupid. Americans, on average, are not smart enough to understand issues like war strategy, economics, and geo politics. It pisses me off that our politicians come up with bullshit solutions to our nation's problems that simply sound good to the American people. They are solutions that the American people can easily understand but, in reality, are not good solutions.

When it comes to fixing complex problems, politicians need to stop listening to what the American people think and listen to what educated experts say about them. Let's break down some examples of solutions that work yet Americans hate so our politicians don't do them.

To pay down the debt, we need to cut spending AND raise taxes, not cut them.

To create jobs, tax cuts are not the solution. Tax cuts, especially the ones for the wealthy, do very little to stimulate economic growth. They do more to add to our national debt than they do let business grow. I know it SOUNDS like it makes sense to cut taxes, but facts and reality say otherwise.

I know it SOUNDS like it makes sense to enact huge and broad spending cuts, but in reality, when it comes to cutting spending (which in itself is important), these cuts must be carefully selected and analyzed. This is something the tea baggers can't seem to grasp. When it comes to cutting spending, a scapel is needed - not a lazy sledgehammer.

I think back to the 2012 election. Both Romney and Obama ran on the issue of paying down the debt. They both came up with easy to understand strategies for doing this, but experts dismissed both strategies as being unrealistic.

"To create jobs, tax cuts are not the solution... but facts and reality say otherwise."
You make the generalization without substantiation.... check the facts first!
Now for the FACTS:
First Deal with the realities of the last MAJOR tax cuts by Bush.

1) Do YOU agree a recession started under Clinton and became official 3/01 ended 11/01?
Source: USATODAY.com - It s official 2001 recession only lasted eight months

2) Do YOU agree that the dot.com bust occurred and cost $5 trillion in losses?
According to the Los Angeles Times, when the dot-com bubble burst, it wiped out $5 trillion dollars in market value for tech companies. More than half of the Internet companies created since 1995 were gone by 2004 - and hundreds of thousands of skilled technology workers were out of jobs.
Source: The dot-com bubble How to lose 5 trillion 8211 Anderson Cooper 360 - CNN.com Blogs

3) Hard to believe but people forget that 9/11 cost $2 trillion in lost businesses,market values assets.
Jobs lost in New York owing to the attacks: 146,100 JUST in New York.
Year 2001: September 11 Terrorist Attacks
The 9/11 terrorist attacks were the events that helped shape other financial events of the decade. After that terrible day in September 2001, our economic climate was never to be the same again. It was only the third time in history that the New York Stock Exchange was shut down for a period of time. In this case, it was closed from September 10 - 17. Besides the tragic human loss of that day, the economic loss cannot even be estimated. Some estimate that there was over $60 billion in insurance losses alone.
Approximately 18,000 small businesses were either displaced or destroyed in Lower Manhattan after the Twin Towers fell. There was a buildup in homeland security on all levels. 9/11 caused a catastrophic financial loss for the U.S.
Source: The Top 10 Financial Events of the Decade

4) $1 trillion in written off losses due to the WORST Hurricane SEASONS in history.
The worst Katrina made landfall in Louisiana as a Category 3 in 2005. It took 1,836 lives and caused $81.2 billion in damages. Andrew slammed into South Florida in 1992 as a Category 5. It caused 40 deaths and $30 billion in property damage. More than 250,000 people were left homeless and 82,000 businesses were destroyed or damaged.
Hurricane Katrina ALONE! Year 2005: Hurricanes Katrina and Rita
On August 25, 2005, Hurricane Katrina hit the Gulf Coast of the U.S. as a strong Category 3 or low Category 4 storm. It quickly became the biggest natural disaster in U.S. history, almost destroying New Orleans due to severe flooding.
The Top 10 Financial Events of the Decade

THESE events OCCURRED!
YET in SPITE of a) 400,000 jobs due to Hurricanes Katrina/Rita , b) 2,800,000 jobs in alone due to 9/11,
c) 300,000 jobs lost due to dot.com busts...
In spite of nearly $8 trillion in lost businesses, market values, destroyed property.. IN SPITE of that:

AFTER the tax cuts Federal Tax REVENUES Increased an average of 9.78% per year!!!
Government Revenue Details Federal State Local for 2008 - Charts

Year	revenue(billions)	increase/ decrease	Change	Reason
2000	$1,211
2001	$1,145	-$ 66	-5.47%	-- remember Wall street closed, no flights 3 days destructions!
2002	$1,006	-$139	-12.14%	In spite of dot.com/911 losses tax writes offs..
2003	$ 926	-$ 81	-8.04%	dot.com/911 losses tax write offs
2004	$ 998	$ 73 up!	7.87% ^	Tax cuts STARTED.. in spite of tax revenues UP!
2005	$1,206	$207 up!	20.76%^	Again tax cuts in play.. REVENUES UP!!!
2006	$1,398	$192 UP!	15.95%^	AGAIN tax cuts but REVENUES UP!!!
2007	$1,534	$136 UP!	9.72%^	Again tax cuts BUT revenues UP!!!
2008	$1,450	-$ 84	- 5.45%	$500 billion pulled out of MMF on 9/18/08 in 2 hours!

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

So with ALL these above FACTS substantiated with sources AGAIN...
Tell me where TAX revenues decreased BECAUSE of TAX CUTS?????
AND please once and for all why not admit the above events had a DIRECT relationship to tax revenues!

I find it hilarious you didn't even mention the Great Recession which began in the last 4 months of Bush's presidency. We lost 3 million jobs in Bush's last few months. We lost 5 million more in the first 6 months of 2009 which were directly connected to the same financial crisis. You are a disingenuous goon and you know it.

Bush's tax cuts created 4.6 jobs per million dollar cut. That's it.

Because dimwits took control of congress.

Oh right. Gee how convenient it. It was the dems. Just the dems. The president, a lack of financial regulation on multiple levels had absolutely nothing to do with it.

You people are pathetic.

YOUR ignoring these STATEMENTS is pathetic!!!
Many prominent Democrats, including House Finance Chairman Barney Frank, opposed any legislation correcting the risks posed by GSEs.
* House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank (D-MA) criticized
the President's warning saying:
"these two entities - Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac - are not facing any kind of financial crisis .The more people exaggerate these problems,
the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."...
(Stephen Labaton, "New Agency Proposed To Oversee Freddie Mac And Fannie Mae," New York Times, 9/11/03)

* Senate Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Chairman Christopher Dodd also ignored the President's warnings and called on him to "immediately reconsider his ill-advised" position. Eric Dash, "Fannie Mae's Offer To Help Ease Credit Squeeze Is Rejected, As Critics Complain Of Opportunism," New York Times, 8/11/07)

Barney Frank s Fannie and Freddie Muddle - US News

How many fucking times do I have to explain Fannie and Freddie was one of many factors that lead to the collapse? It alone would not cause this. How could it? You're an idiot. You think not properly regulating Fannie and Freddie alone made the economy lose 8 million jobs? You are just parroting a report written by republicans who have every reason to want to blame the whole thing in dems. You are a pawn.

 

[Billy000]

So you wish we had a dictator.

Rome did that. They would give all the power to one man to fix the problem and then he would give it back when he was done. Until the last one, when Caesar didn't give the power back.

Yeah, that's exactly what we need. It just lead to over a millennium of the dark ages.

How exactly did you become a staff member? That kind of blows my mind.

 

[Billy000]

Obama's plan on ISIS reminded me just how dumb the American people are. I like Obama, but anyone with a moderate amount of intelligence knows that he is bullshitting the American people on this issue. There is no way airstrikes alone will defeat ISIS. If they are to be defeated, it will require a full scale war. Whether or not we should launch a full scale war is a separate issue however. His speech was simply an attempt to placate the American people who do not want boots on the ground. The truth is Obama and the Pentagon know full well a full scale war is what would be needed.

This issue isn't really my point so much. It is a part of a broad point which is that Americans are stupid. Americans, on average, are not smart enough to understand issues like war strategy, economics, and geo politics. It pisses me off that our politicians come up with bullshit solutions to our nation's problems that simply sound good to the American people. They are solutions that the American people can easily understand but, in reality, are not good solutions.

When it comes to fixing complex problems, politicians need to stop listening to what the American people think and listen to what educated experts say about them. Let's break down some examples of solutions that work yet Americans hate so our politicians don't do them.

To pay down the debt, we need to cut spending AND raise taxes, not cut them.

To create jobs, tax cuts are not the solution. Tax cuts, especially the ones for the wealthy, do very little to stimulate economic growth. They do more to add to our national debt than they do let business grow. I know it SOUNDS like it makes sense to cut taxes, but facts and reality say otherwise.

I know it SOUNDS like it makes sense to enact huge and broad spending cuts, but in reality, when it comes to cutting spending (which in itself is important), these cuts must be carefully selected and analyzed. This is something the tea baggers can't seem to grasp. When it comes to cutting spending, a scapel is needed - not a lazy sledgehammer.

I think back to the 2012 election. Both Romney and Obama ran on the issue of paying down the debt. They both came up with easy to understand strategies for doing this, but experts dismissed both strategies as being unrealistic.

it is logical that cutting spending & increasing income can pay down the debt. If there was a laser-like focus on doing that, I could probably get behind it, however, here's the problem. Both parties have shown an unwillingness to commit to harsh fiscal discipline. As a tax payer, I just don't trust the government with my money that I give them now. Why should I give them more?

Increasing income would do very little to pay down the debt. Not even remotely close.

The debt is 17 trillion.
Do you know what it will take to amass just 1 trillion in surplus? Think about it. One trillion.

Now, multiply that by 17.

There is no paying down the debt.

I think it is possible to do. It would take decades but it is conceivable. However, given our gov gridlock you are probably right.

 

[Jarhead]

Obama's plan on ISIS reminded me just how dumb the American people are. I like Obama, but anyone with a moderate amount of intelligence knows that he is bullshitting the American people on this issue. There is no way airstrikes alone will defeat ISIS. If they are to be defeated, it will require a full scale war. Whether or not we should launch a full scale war is a separate issue however. His speech was simply an attempt to placate the American people who do not want boots on the ground. The truth is Obama and the Pentagon know full well a full scale war is what would be needed.

This issue isn't really my point so much. It is a part of a broad point which is that Americans are stupid. Americans, on average, are not smart enough to understand issues like war strategy, economics, and geo politics. It pisses me off that our politicians come up with bullshit solutions to our nation's problems that simply sound good to the American people. They are solutions that the American people can easily understand but, in reality, are not good solutions.

When it comes to fixing complex problems, politicians need to stop listening to what the American people think and listen to what educated experts say about them. Let's break down some examples of solutions that work yet Americans hate so our politicians don't do them.

To pay down the debt, we need to cut spending AND raise taxes, not cut them.

To create jobs, tax cuts are not the solution. Tax cuts, especially the ones for the wealthy, do very little to stimulate economic growth. They do more to add to our national debt than they do let business grow. I know it SOUNDS like it makes sense to cut taxes, but facts and reality say otherwise.

I know it SOUNDS like it makes sense to enact huge and broad spending cuts, but in reality, when it comes to cutting spending (which in itself is important), these cuts must be carefully selected and analyzed. This is something the tea baggers can't seem to grasp. When it comes to cutting spending, a scapel is needed - not a lazy sledgehammer.

I think back to the 2012 election. Both Romney and Obama ran on the issue of paying down the debt. They both came up with easy to understand strategies for doing this, but experts dismissed both strategies as being unrealistic.

it is logical that cutting spending & increasing income can pay down the debt. If there was a laser-like focus on doing that, I could probably get behind it, however, here's the problem. Both parties have shown an unwillingness to commit to harsh fiscal discipline. As a tax payer, I just don't trust the government with my money that I give them now. Why should I give them more?

Increasing income would do very little to pay down the debt. Not even remotely close.

The debt is 17 trillion.
Do you know what it will take to amass just 1 trillion in surplus? Think about it. One trillion.

Now, multiply that by 17.

There is no paying down the debt.

I think it is possible to do. It would take decades but it is conceivable. However, given our gov gridlock you are probably right.

it has nothing to do with government gridlock.

Even if you take all of the wealth of all of the 1% EACH YEAR, you will barely make a dent in it.

I don't think you have a grasp of what 1 trillion dollars is.

Look at it this way....if we had 1000 people worth a billion dollars and told them to give it all to the government.....that is a trillion dollars.

Now.....multiply that by 17....

 

[Avatar4321]

So you wish we had a dictator.

Rome did that. They would give all the power to one man to fix the problem and then he would give it back when he was done. Until the last one, when Caesar didn't give the power back.

Yeah, that's exactly what we need. It just lead to over a millennium of the dark ages.

How exactly did you become a staff member? That kind of blows my mind.

Following the rules and writing common sense.

We don't need dictators to fix our problems. We need people doing their duty to themselves, their families, and their communities.

 

[Billy000]

So you wish we had a dictator.

Rome did that. They would give all the power to one man to fix the problem and then he would give it back when he was done. Until the last one, when Caesar didn't give the power back.

Yeah, that's exactly what we need. It just lead to over a millennium of the dark ages.

How exactly did you become a staff member? That kind of blows my mind.

Following the rules and writing common sense.

We don't need dictators to fix our problems. We need people doing their duty to themselves, their families, and their communities.

So you actually think I am proposing a dictatorship? No. What I am proposing is that when it comes to complex issues that average joe Americans do not understand, we listen to the experts, not politicians themselves.

 

[haissem123]

as the american people feel the pain of the pols bad decisions, maybe we all should hear what the "smart phd people" have to say and then referend all big decisions like going to war in Iraq in the first place. what a mistake we were to sit and watch bush start this mess. you all wanted revenge or were scared into a war. that's a page out of hitler's manipulation of masses book and we fell for it completely. I didn't. I couldn't stop it alone our with the millions quietly marching in caged street world wide.