I have to say, Olympia Snowe is a Republican with really good ideas.

[Vast LWC]

At least the government representative is nominally looking out for your benefit, not his bottom line.

Your naivete and gullibility are truly astonishing.

I said "nominally".

The corporations don't even have that.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

She's a Maverick fersure.

She agrees with the ideas that are going to unseat Harry Reid and a boatload of Dems in 2010.

 

[Vast LWC]

I find it un-fucking-believable that not only do right-wingers want to say "NO" to everything, but they even try to demonize people who are simply trying to compromise.

I have never seen such blatant obstructionism of governemnt.

You must've been asleep for the eight years of the last administration.

This is taken up a notch even from the last administration.

No matter what the Democrats suggest, Right-Wingers simply scream "No".

If the Democrats found a way to make the national debt dissappear without raising taxes, Republicans would be against it, just because it was proposed by Democrats.

Hell they could suggest a proposal to honor Ronald Reagan and you people would find fault with it.

 

[Vast LWC]

ok....if i owned a private insurance company....and if the public option existed.....i would continue to cherry pick my clients and serve those that paid the most and got sick the least.....the government would then be forced to insure the the high risk group and the tax payer would have to subsidize the cost as the high risk crowd would end up costing them more and would not be able to pay the high premiums to cover their care.....

Which is a good point...

But that is taken care of in other parts of the bill.

 

[Oddball]

I find it un-fucking-believable that not only do right-wingers want to say "NO" to everything, but they even try to demonize people who are simply trying to compromise.

I have never seen such blatant obstructionism of governemnt.

You must've been asleep for the eight years of the last administration.

This is taken up a notch even from the last administration.

No matter what the Democrats suggest, Right-Wingers simply scream "No".

If the Democrats found a way to make the national debt dissappear without raising taxes, Republicans would be against it, just because it was proposed by Democrats.

Hell they could suggest a proposal to honor Ronald Reagan and you people would find fault with it.

Oh, please!

You really outghtta knock off the naive babe-in-the-woods routine....It's not selling.

And, FWIW, I'm not a "you people" Reagan worshiper.

 

[Vast LWC]

But see, here's the point:

The Republicans actually got legislation passed when they were in power, because when it came down to it, the Democrats did eventually compromise.

Now, the Republicans say "No" even before they hear the proposals. They refuse to even try to negotiate, but instead state that they won't sign on to anything that's not their proposal.

Olympia Snowe isn't "caving" she's being rational.

 

[Oddball]

They didn't compromise jack shit...Shrubbie stole most of their goofy programs outright in the first place.

 

[jillian]

oh...they'll respond. the wingnuts will call her a RINO cause she's not a loon.

She is a loon and she is also a liberal democrat dressed in Republican clothes,

thanks for proving my point!

 

[Oddball]

But see, here's the point:

The Republicans actually got legislation passed when they were in power, because when it came down to it, the Democrats did eventually compromise.

Now, the Republicans say "No" even before they hear the proposals. They refuse to even try to negotiate, but instead state that they won't sign on to anything that's not their proposal.

"Why should we put a plan out? Our plan is to stop him. He must be stopped."

~~Nancy Pelosi

Nancy Pelosi Quotes

 

[The Rabbi]

It is exactly caving to the Democrats. A public option is being created. Whether it comes into existence by direct gov't action now or later is immaterial. Does anyone really think Congress is going to spend time on something they don't anticipate ever seeing in practice?

So you are telling us that even you cannot see the private insurers having the ability to somewhat control rising healthcare costs. Interesting.

Indeed, Rabbi, making this statement makes it seem as if you have no belief at all that insurance companies can adhere to even a basic level of control.

It seems to me that we should be worried, that even people who side with the insurance companies are convinced that premiums will soon be spiraling out of control.

Private insurers will not be able to "control costs" any more than they can now. And if they can't now, or can only minimally, how much will they be able to when they are forced to take people with pre-existing conditions and charge everyone the same rate?
This bill stacks the deck against middle class people who have insurance now. Anyone who is young will get insured IF the premiums will be less than the penalty. But they don't typically use health insurance.
People without health insurance probably can't get it now because of high risk. They will represent an overall net loss to insurers.
People will pay the penalty (i.e. tax) until they get sick. Then they will sign up for coverage and the companies cannot refuse them. This was the experience in MA.
The whole thing is so fucking stupid unbelievable that anyone would believe the cost estimates or the program itself I cannot imagine. The very worst part of this stinking turkey is that it wont go into effect until AFTER the 2012 election. So the public will have no idea they've been snookered until after Obama gets re-elected.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

But see, here's the point:

The Republicans actually got legislation passed when they were in power, because when it came down to it, the Democrats did eventually compromise.

Now, the Republicans say "No" even before they hear the proposals. They refuse to even try to negotiate, but instead state that they won't sign on to anything that's not their proposal.

"Why should we put a plan out? Our plan is to stop him. He must be stopped."

~~Nancy Pelosi

Nancy Pelosi Quotes

Dems the Party of NO FUCKING WAY SHRUBBIE!

 

[maineman]

Yes, yes, yes.....

Anyone and everyone who caves in to the leftist moonbats is a "good" republican.

Of course, any democratic who plays ball with the republicans is persona non grata. See: Joe Lieberman.

are you suggesting that democrats in connecticut do not have the right to choose who runs for the US Senate from their party?

 

[The Rabbi]

Yes, yes, yes.....

Anyone and everyone who caves in to the leftist moonbats is a "good" republican.

Of course, any democratic who plays ball with the republicans is persona non grata. See: Joe Lieberman.

are you suggesting that democrats in connecticut do not have the right to choose who runs for the US Senate from their party?

No, dipshit. He's suggesting that when Lieberman didn't cave to the moonbats on the left of his party the Democrats threw him over and supported the challenger in the primaries.

 

[maineman]

and I have always liked the fact that Maine has produced some of the nation's best moderate republican senators.... from Maggie Smith and Bill Cohen to Oly Snowe and Susan Collins.... we like 'em smart up here in Maine, and we like 'em not so partisan that they get to loving their party more than they do their country.

 

[The Rabbi]

Maybe it's the mosquitoes. Drives people crazy I hear. Might explain a lot of their choices.

 

[veritas]

The trigger is a lame suggestion. It's a reverse sunset that will never get activated and most likely sundered in some obscure resolution in some quiet boring legislation. I'm surprised more Republicans didn't vote the Baucus bill out of committee, especially Grassley and Enzi, they worked on the thing. So now they have been showing how harddddddd they worked, all just to stall and obstruct something they moaned and toiled over. riiiiiight. Seems like a fabulous waste of time, especially if you used it to take the spotlight. Grassley is getting a lot of pressure as is Snowe in their respective states. Both Maine and Iowa are over 2/3 in favor of the public option. Snowe and Collins are Republicans in a vast sea of nothing but regional Democrats. Maine isn't dense like the rest of the region, but they have the highest per capita Mercedes Benz and you know what that means.......elitest liberals......with health food and vacation homes.......a more educated crowd...although the cross section on this board might not suggest that.....xotoxi represents though.

 

[Vast LWC]

Private insurers will not be able to "control costs" any more than they can now.

Sure they will, by refusing to pay for bullshit treatments, like VIAGRA and experimental, untested crap that doesn't do anything, but is pushed by big Pharma corporations through Junkets.

And if they can't now, or can only minimally, how much will they be able to when they are forced to take people with pre-existing conditions and charge everyone the same rate?

Medicare has the sickest of people as it's clientele, Old People, and their overhead costs are 15% lower than private insurers. Admittedly, Medicare is non-profit, but obviously there is something that can be done to keep costs low, isn't there?

This bill stacks the deck against middle class people who have insurance now. Anyone who is young will get insured IF the premiums will be less than the penalty. But they don't typically use health insurance.
People without health insurance probably can't get it now because of high risk. They will represent an overall net loss to insurers.
People will pay the penalty (i.e. tax) until they get sick. Then they will sign up for coverage and the companies cannot refuse them. This was the experience in MA.
The whole thing is so fucking stupid unbelievable that anyone would believe the cost estimates or the program itself I cannot imagine. The very worst part of this stinking turkey is that it wont go into effect until AFTER the 2012 election. So the public will have no idea they've been snookered until after Obama gets re-elected.

This is all rationalization. Health Insurance companies are making LOTS of money. Enough to pay off every politican they can find.
And executives who work for Health Insurance companies get LOTS of money. Say, there's a good place to start cutting expenses!

 

[Vast LWC]

"Why should we put a plan out? Our plan is to stop him. He must be stopped."

~~Nancy Pelosi

Nancy Pelosi Quotes

And she said that specifically in reference to??

And Nancy Pelosi, as powerful as she is, is not representative of every Democrat, just as Tom "The Hammer" Delay was not representative of every Republican.

And, as you yourself have pointed out in the past, Republicans are more united than Democrats when it comes to voting in a block.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Never ceases to amaze me how people who don't know what "Float" is can write post after post about the Insurance business.

 

[logical4u]

I find it un-fucking-believable that not only do right-wingers want to say "NO" to everything, but they even try to demonize people who are simply trying to compromise.

I have never seen such blatant obstructionism of governemnt.

At least Logical4U brought up a valid point instead of just dismissing the woman's proposal:

This sounds great, who decides if the private insurers are "meeting" their promises? It is wide open for abuse.

I agree. There would need to be some sort of independent oversight to determine this.

As far as this is concerned though:

That is the whole problem with this bill. It gives the gov power over the medical industry.
It offers no protections for patients or citizens (basically, theoretically, your body belongs to the USA gov once this bill is passed, if you are unable, or possibly if you are, a gov representative will be making the decisions for your health care).
This bill takes our gov from being a representative to a subjugative form of gov.

What would be worse about a government representative making decisions about your health care, than a representative of a private company that specifically wants to make as much of a profit as possible?

At least the government representative is nominally looking out for your benefit, not his bottom line.


Be that as it may, having a Public Option would not be a government takeover of health care, whether it was enacted or not.

The problem with this:
more gov departments created (red tape, lines at DMV or airport security, make the connection)
oversite cannot be appealed: THERE IS NO WRITTEN PROTECTION FOR PATIENTS
the person(s) in power will not be accountable to the citizens, their word will be absolute control over citizens and their families [this can mean: forced organ donation (alive or dead), forced sterilizations and abortions for selective (up to gov) portions or areas of the country, limiting health care in selective areas (if the gov wants to increase or decrease populations in particular areas of the country, the health care is moved accordingly), gov being able to limit health care for families with "too" many children, removing medical devices surgically implanted to be used in other patients, and any other horror you can think. THERE IS NO WRITTEN PROTECTION, THAT MEANS THE PATIENTS/CITIZENS HAVE NO PROTECTION FROM THE GOV CONTROLLING THEIR HEALTH CARE]

If the gov "reforms" health care insurance:
patients could purchase the coverage they need
if they are unhappy with the insurance coverage, they can switch companies (not possible once gov takes over, I know it won't be all at once, but once they get ahold of the monies spent on health care, they will find a way to get it all...)
the gov can also increase flexibility with medical savings accounts (carry for more than one year, leave balance to heirs, etc)
the gov can also encourage tort reform
All of that can be done without the gov (new medical departments and the IRS) having our most personal information and that of our spouses, and children, and parents, and friends, etc.

National Healthcare is really scary.