I hate Baseball Statistics

[rightwinger]

It used to be so easy

Batters were judged by .....Average, HRs and RBIs
Pitchers were judged by....W-L, Ks and ERA

Not perfect, but I understood the numbers

Now, Sabermetrics guys have taken over......WAR, OPS, WHIP....WTF?





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[rightwinger]

I propose a simple number for batters.......Total Offense

Total bases (S, 2B, 3B, HR) + walks + Steals - CS divided by total plate appearances

 

[rightwinger]

A number I have always hated was Saves

You come in with a lead....you are supposed to protect the lead

What matters is Blown Saves
I don't care if you saved 40 games.....I want a reliever who doesn't blow any leads

Relievers should be measured by.........Blown Saves/Total Appearances

 

[Meathead]

baseball is unique in that almost all performance can be broken down statistically. But yeah, a lot of that new stuff is difficult to grasp.

 

[Meathead]

A number I have always hated was Saves

You come in with a lead....you are supposed to protect the lead

What matters is Blown Saves
I don't care if you saved 40 games.....I want a reliever who doesn't blow any leads

Relievers should be measured by.........Blown Saves/Total Appearances

Makes no sense. Mop-up pitchers would always lead since they're brought in when nothing's on the line.

 

[rightwinger]

A number I have always hated was Saves

You come in with a lead....you are supposed to protect the lead

What matters is Blown Saves
I don't care if you saved 40 games.....I want a reliever who doesn't blow any leads

Relievers should be measured by.........Blown Saves/Total Appearances

Makes no sense. Mop-up pitchers would always lead since they're brought in when nothing's on the line.

It would have to be a save opportunity

Another thing I hate is teams use their best reliever as a closer
Bring him in for the ninth inning with a lead and nobody on and expect him to save the game

I want a guy who is a stopper. Get out of bad situations regardless if it is seventh, eighth or ninth inning

If it is the eighth inning bases loaded one out and the meat of the order up......I want my best reliever in there

I don't care if my best guy comes in to mop up against the bottom of the order in the ninth

 

[Pogo]

It used to be so easy

Batters were judged by .....Average, HRs and RBIs
Pitchers were judged by....W-L, Ks and ERA

Not perfect, but I understood the numbers

Now, Sabermetrics guys have taken over......WAR, OPS, WHIP....WTF?

I have yet to find any explanation of what "game score" means. Plus it's a stupid thing to call some index ascribed to a pitcher.

 

[Paulie]

OPS is just slugging percentage plus on base percentage. It's kind of a pretty useful stat and not exactly difficult to understand. WHIP Is walks and hits per innings pitched. Again, a simple and useful stat. I don't know about wins above replacement. I guess it's a pretty pertinent stat but I didn't really need a stat to tell me that a team is better off with mike trout than basically any other center fielder in the world

 

[Paulie]

A number I have always hated was Saves

You come in with a lead....you are supposed to protect the lead

What matters is Blown Saves
I don't care if you saved 40 games.....I want a reliever who doesn't blow any leads

Relievers should be measured by.........Blown Saves/Total Appearances

So you want a new sabremetrics stat, or don't you? I'm confused now

 

[rightwinger]

OPS is just slugging percentage plus on base percentage. It's kind of a pretty useful stat and not exactly difficult to understand. WHIP Is walks and hits per innings pitched. Again, a simple and useful stat. I don't know about wins above replacement. I guess it's a pretty pertinent stat but I didn't really need a stat to tell me that a team is better off with mike trout than basically any other center fielder in the world

OPS seems kind of redundant

On base percentage is batting average plus walks
Slugging is batting average adjusted for extra base hits. So if you get a single it counts towards your batting average AND your slugging percentage

Why not just add walks and stolen bases to the calculation of your slugging percentage?

 

[rightwinger]

OPS is just slugging percentage plus on base percentage. It's kind of a pretty useful stat and not exactly difficult to understand. WHIP Is walks and hits per innings pitched. Again, a simple and useful stat. I don't know about wins above replacement. I guess it's a pretty pertinent stat but I didn't really need a stat to tell me that a team is better off with mike trout than basically any other center fielder in the world

I don't like WAR because it only compares you to other third basemen or other center fielders

Right now, there are tons of third basemen with great offensive statistics. So even though you put up great offensive numbers, your WAR would not be that high

There are not many great center fielders. So even average offensive numbers will give you a higher WAR

 

[Pogo]

OPS is just slugging percentage plus on base percentage. It's kind of a pretty useful stat and not exactly difficult to understand. WHIP Is walks and hits per innings pitched. Again, a simple and useful stat. I don't know about wins above replacement. I guess it's a pretty pertinent stat but I didn't really need a stat to tell me that a team is better off with mike trout than basically any other center fielder in the world

I don't like WAR because it only compares you to other third basemen or other center fielders

Right now, there are tons of third basemen with great offensive statistics. So even though you put up great offensive numbers, your WAR would not be that high

There are not many great center fielders. So even average offensive numbers will give you a higher WAR

Yeah it's kinda bullshit to make up position-specific statistics unless they're defense stats. A goodly number of goodly players can and do play multiple positions anyway -- but when they come to bat they're still the same hitter.

Established (entrenched) baseball philosophy has some very odd and illogical tenets, like some particular OF or 3B "doesn't hit for enough power -- you want more HR out of your 3B". Makes no sense at all.

 

[rightwinger]

OPS is just slugging percentage plus on base percentage. It's kind of a pretty useful stat and not exactly difficult to understand. WHIP Is walks and hits per innings pitched. Again, a simple and useful stat. I don't know about wins above replacement. I guess it's a pretty pertinent stat but I didn't really need a stat to tell me that a team is better off with mike trout than basically any other center fielder in the world

I don't like WAR because it only compares you to other third basemen or other center fielders

Right now, there are tons of third basemen with great offensive statistics. So even though you put up great offensive numbers, your WAR would not be that high

There are not many great center fielders. So even average offensive numbers will give you a higher WAR

Yeah it's kinda bullshit to make up position-specific statistics unless they're defense stats. A goodly number of goodly players can and do play multiple positions anyway -- but when they come to bat they're still the same hitter.

Established (entrenched) baseball philosophy has some very odd and illogical tenets, like some particular OF or 3B "doesn't hit for enough power -- you want more HR out of your 3B". Makes no sense at all.

Agree

How do you measure WAR of a SS without measuring his defensive skills?
or WAR of a catcher without looking at how he handles pitchers or how well he throws to second base?

 

[Paulie]

OPS is just slugging percentage plus on base percentage. It's kind of a pretty useful stat and not exactly difficult to understand. WHIP Is walks and hits per innings pitched. Again, a simple and useful stat. I don't know about wins above replacement. I guess it's a pretty pertinent stat but I didn't really need a stat to tell me that a team is better off with mike trout than basically any other center fielder in the world

I don't like WAR because it only compares you to other third basemen or other center fielders

Right now, there are tons of third basemen with great offensive statistics. So even though you put up great offensive numbers, your WAR would not be that high

There are not many great center fielders. So even average offensive numbers will give you a higher WAR

Yeah it's kinda bullshit to make up position-specific statistics unless they're defense stats. A goodly number of goodly players can and do play multiple positions anyway -- but when they come to bat they're still the same hitter.

Established (entrenched) baseball philosophy has some very odd and illogical tenets, like some particular OF or 3B "doesn't hit for enough power -- you want more HR out of your 3B". Makes no sense at all.

Especially since we have 2nd baseman and short stops these days that can lead the league in power hitting when those guys used to just be guys who could get on base score runs

 

[Meathead]

Why not just add walks and stolen bases to the calculation of your slugging percentage?

Semantics of course. What do walks and SBs have to do with slugging?

 

[xotoxi]

A number I have always hated was Saves

You come in with a lead....you are supposed to protect the lead

What matters is Blown Saves
I don't care if you saved 40 games.....I want a reliever who doesn't blow any leads

Relievers should be measured by.........Blown Saves/Total Appearances

How about Holds?

Your team could have a 5-0 lead. A reliever could come in give up 4 runs and have the bases loaded with no outs when he is taken out and replaced with another pitcher. The new pitcher gets a 6-4-3 DP and the tying run scores.

The first guy gets a hold, the second guy get a blown save.

 

[xotoxi]

Relievers should be measured by.........Blown Saves/Total Appearances

It should be Blown Save/Save Opportunities not Total Appearances. If the guy was to spot start a couple of games, or come into the game when it is tied, then those appearances would dilute the amount of save opportunities and would make him look like a better closer than he actually is.

 

[Paulie]

Why not just add walks and stolen bases to the calculation of your slugging percentage?

Semantics of course. What do walks and SBs have to do with slugging?

Stolen bases aren't part of ops im not sure where that one came from here. But walks are part of on base percentage so they're already calculated into the OPS.

If you ask me, I wouldn't be surprised if agents were behind all these new stats, to be used as bargaining leverage. In a sport where a player can now land a contract worth potentially half a billion dollars, why not try to get meaningless stats included into the mainstream so you can say look my guy gets on base a lot and also hits a bunch of doubles

 

[Meathead]

Why not just add walks and stolen bases to the calculation of your slugging percentage?

Semantics of course. What do walks and SBs have to do with slugging?

Stolen bases aren't part of ops im not sure where that one came from here. But walks are part of on base percentage so they're already calculated into the OPS.

If you ask me, I wouldn't be surprised if agents were behind all these new stats, to be used as bargaining leverage. In a sport where a player can now land a contract worth potentially half a billion dollars, why not try to get meaningless stats included into the mainstream so you can say look my guy gets on base a lot and also hits a bunch of doubles

Good point. Walks are more common with sluggers than some guy who who can beat out an infield dribbler and so could be an indication of power. That movie about Billy Beane touches on a lot of this. Don't remember the name and can't be bothered to check. Good movie though.

 

[Pogo]

OPS is just slugging percentage plus on base percentage. It's kind of a pretty useful stat and not exactly difficult to understand. WHIP Is walks and hits per innings pitched. Again, a simple and useful stat. I don't know about wins above replacement. I guess it's a pretty pertinent stat but I didn't really need a stat to tell me that a team is better off with mike trout than basically any other center fielder in the world

I don't like WAR because it only compares you to other third basemen or other center fielders

Right now, there are tons of third basemen with great offensive statistics. So even though you put up great offensive numbers, your WAR would not be that high

There are not many great center fielders. So even average offensive numbers will give you a higher WAR

Yeah it's kinda bullshit to make up position-specific statistics unless they're defense stats. A goodly number of goodly players can and do play multiple positions anyway -- but when they come to bat they're still the same hitter.

Established (entrenched) baseball philosophy has some very odd and illogical tenets, like some particular OF or 3B "doesn't hit for enough power -- you want more HR out of your 3B". Makes no sense at all.

Especially since we have 2nd baseman and short stops these days that can lead the league in power hitting when those guys used to just be guys who could get on base score runs

Zackly --- I never heard those same traditionalist voices complaining about Davey Johnson or Cal Ripken.

"Johnson, you're hitting too many home runs -- we're gonna move you to left field."