Hydroxychloroquine (Plaquenil) Thread

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I would use it if I were in dire straits.

Right, because you have been influenced by bad evidence.

 

[BWK]

Deadline: White House on MSNBC How could Trump fire the lead Coronavirus doctor after the doctor questioned Trumps drug he was pedaling? Can you believe that shit? The head doctor.

 

[beagle9]

Let's say media brought attention to hydroxychloroquine, they would be praising it, and have ready experts to confirm it. O

Cultist fantasy. Whenever reality doesn't align with your cultish fetishes, you goobers always go straight to the cultish fantasies. All the experts are lying, etc...please...you're embarrassing yourself.......

OK, tell us... in general, is hydroxychloroquine helping or not?

I don't know. But the preliminary findings coming out so far do not look good.

You don't know(?), yet you've been in here bashing Trump for how many pages now ?? He doesn't know either, but in a life or death situation he doesn't want to deny a person the chance to try something that might help while being adminstered under a doctors care. At least he isn't mixing up some sort of concoction in his moonshine cooking apparatus out back, and then making a claim that it cures the virus for $30.00 dollars for a mason jar full.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

You don't know(?), yet you've been in here bashing Trump for how many pages now ??

Correct. As he deserves. His touting of the drug was irresponsible and was done for all the wrong reasons.

 

[lennypartiv]

Now MSNBC is copying CNN, taking the opportunity to bash Trump's drug, obviously for political reasons.

 

[XponentialChaos]

I just got a notification that the Gilead results are disappointing.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Didier Raoult the fraud:

Chloroquine witchdoctor Didier Raoult: barking mad and dangerous

Is the inventor of chloroquine cure for COVID-19, the French microbiologist Didier Raoult, sane? But then again, is anyone these days?

forbetterscience.com

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Gilead Shares Slide as Coronavirus Treatment Reportedly Fails Clinical Trial

Gilead Sciences slid after a potential antiviral drug for the coronavirus failed its first randomized clinical trial, according to a media report.

www.thestreet.com

Gilead Sciences Falls on Draft Report of Failed Coronavirus Drug Test
Gilead Sciences slides after a potential antiviral drug for the coronavirus failed its first randomized clinical trial, according to a media report.

 

[Ame®icano]

OK, tell us... in general, is hydroxychloroquine helping or not?

I don't know. But the preliminary findings coming out so far do not look good.

Sorry for letting this thing slip I was kinda busy...

This is continuation from the post #2126 and I hope you watched the video I posted there. What I get from there is that many doctors all over the world are saying, people are being hooked to ventilators, and in some cases being killed by the pressure, for no valid reason, and that we're treating people for wrong disease. I picked this up on other boards that discussed about this. In layman terms...

Your red blood cells carry oxygen from your lungs to all your organs and the rest of your body. Red blood cells can do this thanks to hemoglobin, which is a protein consisting of four "hemes". Hemes have a special kind of iron ion, which is normally quite toxic in its free form, locked away in its center with a porphyrin acting as it's 'container'. In this way, the iron ion can be 'caged' and carried around the body safely by the hemoglobin, but used to bind to oxygen when it gets to your lungs.

When the red blood cell gets to the alveoli, or the little sacs in your lungs where all the gas exchange happens, that iron ion can flip between FE2+ and FE3+ states with electron exchange and bond to oxygen, then it goes off on its way to deliver O2 elsewhere. That's where COVID-19 comes in. Its glyco-proteins bond to the heme, and in doing so that toxic oxidative iron ion is released. It's basically let out of the cage and now freely roaming around on its own. This is bad for couple of reasons: first, without the iron ion, hemoglobin can no longer bind to oxygen, and second, that toxic iron ion, along with millions of others released from other hemes, are now floating through your blood freely.

What happens in first case, when hemoglobin can no longer bind to oxygen? All those red blood cell are essentially turned into a Freightliner truck cab with no trailer and no ability to store its cargo (oxygen). They're basically useless and just running around with COVID-19 virus attached to their porphyrin. All these useless trucks running around not delivering oxygen is what starts to lead to desaturation, or watching the patient's O2 levels drop. Many doctors incorrectly assumed traditional ARDS and in doing so, they were treating the WRONG DISEASE.

What happens in second case, when millions of toxic iron ions float through your blood freely? These ions causes oxidative damage, and our body defense mechanism reacts to keep the balance. Our lungs have three main lines of defense, from two of which are in alveoli. First of those two are macrophages that roam around and collect any free radicals like this oxidative iron. Second is a lining on a it's walls which has thin layer of fluid packed with high levels of antioxidant molecules, like a abscorbic acid (AKA Vitamin C) among others. Those two defenses are usually good enough for naturally occurring rogue iron ions, but with corona virus running rampant your body is now basically like a progressive state letting out all the prisoners out of the prisons, it's just too much iron and it begins to overwhelm your lungs' countermeasures, and thus begins the process of pulmonary oxidative stress. This leads to damage and inflammation, which leads to all that nasty stuff and damage you see in CT scans of COVID-19 patient lungs. Ever noticed how it's always bilateral (both lungs at the same time)? Pneumonia rarely ever does that, but COVID-19 does it every single time.

I'll continue later.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Meet the B.S. Artist Behind Trump’s Miracle Drug

Didier Raoult’s a climate denier and was a coronavirus truther. That hasn’t stopped the White House from embracing his sketchy studies into an anti-malaria drug to treat COVID-19.

www.thedailybeast.com

 

[BWK]

Largest Statistically Significant Study by 6,200 Multi-Country Physicians on COVID-19 Uncovers Treatment Patterns and Puts Pandemic in Context

Widespread confusion, conflicting reports, inconsistent testing, and off-indication use of existing and experimental drugs has resulted in no single source of information from the frontlines. To create a centralized and dynamic knowledge base, Sermo, the largest global healthcare polling company...

news.yahoo.com

Treatments & Efficacy

• The three most commonly prescribed treatments amongst COVID-19 treaters are 56% analgesics, 41% Azithromycin, and 33% Hydroxychloroquine
• Hydroxychloroquine usage amongst COVID-19 treaters is 72% in Spain, 49% in Italy, 41% in Brazil, 39% in Mexico, 28% in France, 23% in the U.S., 17% in Germany, 16% in Canada, 13% in the UK, and 7% in Japan
• Hydroxychloroquine was overall chosen as the most effective therapy amongst COVID-19 treaters from a list of 15 options. (37% of COVID-19 treaters)
• 75% in Spain, 53% Italy, 44% in China, 43% in Brazil, 29% in France, 23% in the U.S., and 13% in the UK
• The two most common treatment regimens for Hydroxychloroquine were:
• (38%) 400mg twice daily on day one; 400 mg daily for five days
• (26%) 400mg twice daily on day one; 200mg twice daily for four days
• Outside the U.S., Hydroxychloroquine was equally used for diagnosed patients with mild to severe symptoms whereas in the U.S. it was most commonly used for high risk diagnosed patients
• Globally, 19% of physicians prescribed or have seen Hydroxychloroquine prophylactically used for high risk patients, and 8% for low risk patients

You better tell the FDA buddy boy, because they aren't buying it; ttps://www.statnews.com/2020/04/06/trump-hydroxychloroquine-fact-check/

Study finds no benefit, higher death rate in patients taking hydroxychloroquine for Covid-19 | CNN

Coronavirus patients taking hydroxychloroquine, a treatment touted by President Trump, were no less likely to need mechanical ventilation and had higher deaths rates compared to those who did not take the drug, according to a study of hundreds of patients at US Veterans Health Administration...

www.cnn.com

 

[Doc7505]

The Long, Sad Saga of Hydroxychloroquine

The Long, Sad Saga of Hydroxychloroquine | National Review

The same medical community which is telling us that HCQ is dangerous, may soon be telling us that a vaccine developed in record time is completely safe.

www.nationalreview.com

21 Aug 2020~~ By Jim Talent
I want to make sure NR readers don’t miss this essay from Norman Doidge. It’s the best thing I’ve read on hydroxychloroquine. But beware: The piece is long and fascinating. Once you start reading, you won’t be able to stop, and it takes a good half hour to finish.

Doidge tells the tale of hydroxychloroquine, or HCQ as he calls it, as if the drug were a character in a story. His main point is that HCQ hasn’t received fair treatment in many quarters, including, unfortunately, some of the health experts advising the government of the United States. The main reasons are the intrusion of politics into medicine, the pitfalls and limitations of big data in medical science, and the over-reliance of many experts on random controlled testing to the exclusion of other kinds of evidence.

Doidge manages to make even a discussion of research methodology interesting. Here is a sample:

We now have studies that show one of the weaknesses of RCTs (random controlled testing) is that in the quest to eliminate confounding factors, they end up, in a majority of cases, excluding patients who are typical of those in the population. The RCT evangelist focuses only on the RCT strengths, and forgets their weaknesses. A typical RCT describes several data points about hundreds of patients. It can be helpful in determining what treatment might work for most people in a large population. A typical case history describes perhaps hundreds of data points about a single patient. Its focus might be on what treatment might work best for this patient. Sometimes we need all that information about a patient, to choose a proper treatment, because individual patients differ, often in decisive ways.

Patients are not “several data points.” There are multiple good reasons that the medical curriculum and major journals and texts publish RCTs, observational studies, case histories, and other designs, and why most physicians with experience will use what I would call the “all-available-evidence” approach and take, as appropriate, what they can learn from different kinds of studies, and of course everything they know about their own patient in front of them, to decide on a treatment. That is what personalized medicine is about. RCT fundamentalists — who believe only in their randomized data and essentially argue for throwing away everything else — pose as people simply expressing the conventional view: All you need is one tool. But in practice, they are way outside it. When the teacher tells you to quit paying so much attention to the fullness of your experience, pay more attention to why he might be saying so.
[Snip]
This outstanding article reinforced an opinion I had already reached. I think HCQ has therapeutic benefits in treating COVID-19; I’m confident that, used with proper medical oversight, it’s harmless.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

There is no good evidence this is effective. None. If there were, medical science would demonstrate this and it would be recommended for treatment.

 

[Doc7505]

There is no good evidence this is effective. None. If there were, medical science would demonstrate this and it would be recommended for treatment.

~~~~~~
Then why have doctors who have used the HCQ Z-Pak treatment and find positive success in treating the Chinese Virus being castigated, especially when countries like Turkey and others in Europe have also found the HCQ cocktail to be effective treatment and lowered their death rates....
If it works use it.... Give the physicians that choice....

 

[Markle]

Largest Statistically Significant Study by 6,200 Multi-Country Physicians on COVID-19 Uncovers Treatment Patterns and Puts Pandemic in Context

Widespread confusion, conflicting reports, inconsistent testing, and off-indication use of existing and experimental drugs has resulted in no single source of information from the frontlines. To create a centralized and dynamic knowledge base, Sermo, the largest global healthcare polling company...

news.yahoo.com

Treatments & Efficacy

• The three most commonly prescribed treatments amongst COVID-19 treaters are 56% analgesics, 41% Azithromycin, and 33% Hydroxychloroquine
• Hydroxychloroquine usage amongst COVID-19 treaters is 72% in Spain, 49% in Italy, 41% in Brazil, 39% in Mexico, 28% in France, 23% in the U.S., 17% in Germany, 16% in Canada, 13% in the UK, and 7% in Japan
• Hydroxychloroquine was overall chosen as the most effective therapy amongst COVID-19 treaters from a list of 15 options. (37% of COVID-19 treaters)
• 75% in Spain, 53% Italy, 44% in China, 43% in Brazil, 29% in France, 23% in the U.S., and 13% in the UK
• The two most common treatment regimens for Hydroxychloroquine were:
• (38%) 400mg twice daily on day one; 400 mg daily for five days
• (26%) 400mg twice daily on day one; 200mg twice daily for four days
• Outside the U.S., Hydroxychloroquine was equally used for diagnosed patients with mild to severe symptoms whereas in the U.S. it was most commonly used for high risk diagnosed patients
• Globally, 19% of physicians prescribed or have seen Hydroxychloroquine prophylactically used for high risk patients, and 8% for low risk patients

You better tell the FDA buddy boy, because they aren't buying it; ttps://www.statnews.com/2020/04/06/trump-hydroxychloroquine-fact-check/

Study finds no benefit, higher death rate in patients taking hydroxychloroquine for Covid-19 | CNN

Coronavirus patients taking hydroxychloroquine, a treatment touted by President Trump, were no less likely to need mechanical ventilation and had higher deaths rates compared to those who did not take the drug, according to a study of hundreds of patients at US Veterans Health Administration...

www.cnn.com

CNN...from APRIL

Got it!

 

[badger2]

Y'all are stumbling around the differences between the context of each patient genome, their existing conditions, and the discretion of the physician, which FDA advocates.

Where in this thread is there any discourse on pharmacodynamics of hydroxychloroquine? Pharmacokinetics?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Then why have doctors who have used the HCQ Z-Pak treatment and find positive success

That hasn't happened. Correlation is not causation. That's why the effectiveness of medicine is decided over a large body of controlled data. You are gullible.

The physicians have the choice. They can prescribe it off label. If your doctor suggests it, find a new doctor.

 

[Polishprince]

Then why have doctors who have used the HCQ Z-Pak treatment and find positive success

That hasn't happened. Correlation is not causation. That's why the effectiveness of medicine is decided over a large body of controlled data. You are gullible.

The physicians have the choice. They can prescribe it off label. If your doctor suggests it, find a new doctor.

Let's cut the shit. The problem that liberalism has with hydroxychloroquine is that President Trump endorsed it. In other countries, they use it all the time. World leaders like President Bukele endorse it too. Once Trump leaves, the hate for HCQ will disappear.

 

[Leo123]

Let's cut the shit. The problem that liberalism has with hydroxychloroquine is that President Trump endorsed it. In other countries, they use it all the time. World leaders like President Bukele endorse it too. Once Trump leaves, the hate for HCQ will disappear.

Yes and to cut the shit even further, Democrats want to inflict as much pain as possible on the American populace to gain political power.

 

[Doc7505]

Then why have doctors who have used the HCQ Z-Pak treatment and find positive success

That hasn't happened. Correlation is not causation. That's why the effectiveness of medicine is decided over a large body of controlled data. You are gullible.

The physicians have the choice. They can prescribe it off label. If your doctor suggests it, find a new doctor.

Tell that to Doctor Siegal and his 90 year old father....

Then why have doctors who have used the HCQ Z-Pak treatment and find positive success

That hasn't happened. Correlation is not causation. That's why the effectiveness of medicine is decided over a large body of controlled data. You are gullible.

The physicians have the choice. They can prescribe it off label. If your doctor suggests it, find a new doctor.

Then explain why Dr. Marc Siegal's 96 year old father survived quickly by the use of the HCQ zpak treatment?

Dr. Marc Siegel opens up about his father, 96, and his use of hydroxychloroquine

Dr. Marc Siegel, a Fox News medical contributor, told “Tucker Carlson Tonight” on Tuesday that his 96-year-old father was recently weak and struggling to breathe but recovered after he was administered the anti-malaria drug and antibiotics.

www.foxnews.com